Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes
That was my thought as well. We (the developers) owe nothing to the community at large. We are volunteers, and if we want to treat Gentoo as our own personal toy (which we currently aren't), then so be it. Of course Gentoo owes to the community a lot. A lot of its progress, progress of the applications included, etc. But it's not a matter of obligation. Being nice to others is a nice thing to do and a way to look better too. The opposite is... well, the opposite. Love, H -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes
On Mon, 2007-07-16 at 14:37 +0200, Michael Krelin wrote: That was my thought as well. We (the developers) owe nothing to the community at large. We are volunteers, and if we want to treat Gentoo as our own personal toy (which we currently aren't), then so be it. Of course Gentoo owes to the community a lot. A lot of its progress, progress of the applications included, etc. But it's not a matter of obligation. Being nice to others is a nice thing to do and a way to look better too. The opposite is... well, the opposite. Well said... Remember that if we really didn't give a crap about the community, we wouldn't be writing open source software. If we didn't care about the users, we wouldn't release our software to them. We wouldn't have a bug tracker, forums, and all the other things that we do and maintain solely for the community. I didn't doubt Gentoo attitude towards community. This is why statements like the one above strike me as exceedingly out of place. To phrase it in another manner that might make more sense, any given developer is going to be more interested in fixing/changing what is important or interesting to them than what some group of users wants them to fix/change. This is an attempt to make sense of the statement, which, interpreted this way is absolutely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Love, H -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes
Is this course of tightening all possible restrictions permanent now? Love, H Mike Doty wrote: All- We're going to change the -dev mailing list from completely open to where only devs can post, but any dev could moderate a non-dev post. devs who moderate in bad posts will be subject to moderation themselves. in addition the gentoo-project list will be created to take over what -dev frequently becomes. there is no requirement to be on this new list. This will probably remove the need for -core(everything gets leaked out anyway) but that's a path to cross later. We're voting on this next council meeting so if you have input, now would be the time. --taco -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?
An excellent former manager of mine once gave me very good advice - everybody is replaceable. I for one have been a bit annoyed by the An excellent former manager of yours either was Joseph Stalin or he just plagiarized this very good advice. Love, H -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] $Header:$ and ebuilds
I thought about it some longer, and it's even nastier than just having to get the value in a different way, because you also have to keep the value in the file in your local version. This either means also storing the CVS directory (in SVN, funny :) ) or devoting the first line of every file for it... You can make it into svn versioned property ;-) Love, H -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New developer: Ulrich Müller (ulm)
Raúl Porcel wrote: Use repoman || die :) I doubt repoman would catch it, but having similar line in ebuild would basically render use flag useless ;-) Love, H -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: extending project xml to have stuff that the project is working on and collect them as Gentoo current goals
So turn it into one more mundane and pointless task that I am forced to perform simply because it is a matter of policy? Having to go around saying yes, this is still correct is rather wasteful, is it not? I know I would have to do this for several projects, all of which are not the sort to really have updates to publish. How about sending out unobliging reminder? Might help if it's not set to remind too often. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [soc] Python bindings for Paludis
Michael Krelin wrote: The question is whether scripts that, say, parse emerge -pv output have to carry on working. I think this requirement would put portage itself in quite uncomfortable situation. It's a non-issue imo; it's up to script authors and maintainers (aka users) to keep up with whichever tools they choose, cf Bash 3.2 regex changes. If it's a useful script, it'll get updated. I think the same applies not only for different portage versions, but for various package managers too. There may be some parts of the output strictly specified, but otherwise it's like indeed forcing all sendmail-compatible mailers provide uniform mailq output. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] [soc] Python bindings for Paludis
It depends upon the degree to which one specifies 'sendmail compatibility'. Does it mean shares some of the same commandline options or shares exactly the same configuration file format and all bugs and produces identical output? I think Mike mentioned compatiblebinaries. Not sure if he implied identical output, but compatible command line would be nice. I don't think it's a huge obstacle for paludis, though. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] [soc] Python bindings for Paludis
It depends upon the degree to which one specifies 'sendmail compatibility'. Does it mean shares some of the same commandline options or shares exactly the same configuration file format and all bugs and produces identical output? I think Mike mentioned compatiblebinaries. Not sure if he implied identical output, but compatible command line would be nice. I don't think it's a huge obstacle for paludis, though. If it's just an issue of command line, then it's not an issue at all. Even configuration support isn't a major problem (Paludis trunk has highly experimental and highly buggy partial Portage config reading support). The question is whether scripts that, say, parse emerge -pv output have to carry on working. I think this requirement would put portage itself in quite uncomfortable situation. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New ALSA maintainers
I completely disagree with your assessment of the in-kernel hda-intel state. My workstation uses one of those (labelled nVidia MCP 55, for the curious), and my experiences with in-kernel ALSA have been nothing but positive with the intel audio, whether compiled or as modules. I have two hda-intel machines. One runs with in-kernel alsa, for the other I had to use alsa-driver. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo infra backups
I've been reading some SCM comparisons and there are three systems which I think are the best candidates for moving to: git, mercurial and darcs. These are the three fastest and most capable SCMs. Git is still the fastest but mercurial and darcs are not far behind. Darcs has the best merging capabilities probably due to its being based on a solid mathematical foundation; patch algebra. Reading comparisons is one thing and using is the other. But the thing is, gentoo ends up with central repository, anyway. Provided the repository is less ancient than CVS (which is basically subversion), distributed users can branch it without having to have commit access. This hybrid model makes much more sense to me than forcing everyone to use DSCM. I have exercised the approach on overlay before I was granted commit access and now continue to work the same way pushing my branches back to svn. I think this possibility totally invalidates the very idea of DSCM importance. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] [soc] Python bindings for Paludis
the werent the same question nor were they the same answer They weren't the same, but the second answer was definitely wrong: So is alternative package manager support something that's considered important and a priority by the Council? yes Did you not say that finding alternatives to Portage is one of Gentoo's priorities? no i did not, nor does that apply here because it explicitly states that you *did not* say it (and the wording doesn't differ enough to justify it), not only that it doesn't apply. i think the use of negatives has confused you ... the answers i posted to ciaranm's questions in both cases are correct one of Gentoo's priorities is to enable alternative package managers to coexist sanely ... it is not one of Gentoo's priorities at this time to replace Portage with a different package manager I don't think either question implied replacing portage, but nevermind. As, I believe, I mentioned once, it's nothing but a hairsplitting. You made yourself clear enough. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo infra backups
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Tuesday 27 March 2007, Christopher Sawtell wrote: I believe Monotone ( as well as many others ) would do what is wanted. i simply cannot fully express myself at how terrible monotone is Care to suggest a different DSCM system? git? Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo infra backups
So far git isn't that bad, I haven't tested monotone that much nor mercurial. Probably we could get some help from upstream if we want to move to it. I think, the nature of most gentoo repositories isn't distributed enough. Switching to subversion should be enough to enable distributed development using, for instance, `git svn`. And would avoid a lot of confusion as well. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] [soc] Python bindings for Paludis
the werent the same question nor were they the same answer They weren't the same, but the second answer was definitely wrong: So is alternative package manager support something that's considered important and a priority by the Council? yes Did you not say that finding alternatives to Portage is one of Gentoo's priorities? no i did not, nor does that apply here because it explicitly states that you *did not* say it (and the wording doesn't differ enough to justify it), not only that it doesn't apply. The latter circumstance, though, renders the whole dispute useless pedantry. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Distrowatch
070319 Michael Krelin wrote: someone wrote : Seriously. Everybody go to distrowatch and click on the little Gentoo on the right I mistook seriously as relating to the rest of your letter Your name suggests you're not a native speaker. It's a common trick of stand-up comedians to introduce their next joke with But seriously, folks ... (smile). Indeed, I am not. Thanks for clarification. The only consolation I have now is that I'm not an expert in common tricks of stand-up comedians in my native language either ;-) (it doesn't imply any lack of sense of humor, though). Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Distrowatch
Seriously. Everybody go to distrowatch and click on the little Gentoo no the right and watch what happens. If we got everybody to do it, then suddenly Gentoo must be the most popular distribution on the planet! Is that going to prove anything but Gentoo supporters infancy? Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Distrowatch
On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 18:54 +0100, Michael Krelin wrote: Seriously. Everybody go to distrowatch and click on the little Gentoo no the right and watch what happens. If we got everybody to do it, then suddenly Gentoo must be the most popular distribution on the planet! Is that going to prove anything but Gentoo supporters infancy? No. It does prove that Gentoo supporters (at least on this list) have no sense of humor. Look at what I was responding to and read what I said again. In case you're still not noticing, it was a joke. It shows that the distrowatch ranking means absolutely nothing but the number of times somebody(s) clicked on a link. I am sorry then. I mistook seriously as relating to the rest of your letter, not the one you were answering to. The sad part is that it's not improbable that it could be serious. After all, I think you can't help noticing that rankings were brought up somehow. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] gs use flag local - global
If you're feeling ambitious, it might be more appropriate to change that use flag to ``ps: Add support for postscript'' so that it describes the functionality rather than the package providing that functionality. Isn't less ambiguous 'postscript' even better? Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: gentoo-dev vs lkml?
Also part of the maturity point. Perhaps we all just need to grow up? ;) Very likely, but how? I think my own opinion was best expressed by John Galsworthy (or Soames Forsyte of the Forsyte Saga): One of these days they’d try and bring in Prohibition, he shouldn’t wonder; but that cock wouldn’t fight in England — too extravagant! Treating people like children wasn’t the way to make them grow up; as if they weren’t childish enough as it was. I think that the mere existence of the CoC would slow down, to say the least, growing up. Prohibition laws are in the spirit of time, though, so when facing the dilemma of being decent vs. following the rules, the majority prefers the latter nowadays. Love, H -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
