Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Sun, March 18, 2007 10:53 pm, Stephen Bennett wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:46:40 + Jeff Rollin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which is why I was saying there was no point in a ~/.config directory... Generally speaking one lists the contents of one's home directory more often than one lists ~/.config. It moves the clutter to a place where it's not so noticeable, and is thus a good thing. Well, I'd tend to say that it's not noticeable even under $(HOME) because one issues a ls [-l] more often than a ls -a[l]. Besides, moving all into ~/.config is just moving the problem somewhere else, not really solving it. -- Pierre-Yves Rofes -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Pierre-Yves Rofes wrote: Well, I'd tend to say that it's not noticeable even under $(HOME) because one issues a ls [-l] more often than a ls -a[l]. Besides, moving all into ~/.config is just moving the problem somewhere else, not really solving it. Agreed. It's just moving the problem elsewhere, where it persists to be a problem, just in a different way/place. I prefer per app configs right in my homedir, not in ~/.config/ -- though I suppose it really should depend on whether or not the upstream for the app in question intended to place the configs someplace sane or not. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Monday 19 March 2007, Pierre-Yves Rofes wrote: Well, I'd tend to say that it's not noticeable even under $(HOME) because one issues a ls [-l] more often than a ls -a[l]. Besides, moving all into ~/.config is just moving the problem somewhere else, not really solving it. what is the problem as you see it ? the nice thing about having a ~/.config/ is that it's a directory that can obviously be added to backups or sync programs for keeping $HOME the same across multiple machines ... you dont have to worry about having to filter large crap like cache files, temporary files, etc... -mike pgp6kaRNz15pb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Monday 19 March 2007, Josh Saddler wrote: I prefer per app configs right in my homedir, not in ~/.config/ -- this isnt really a point that will ever be solved ... you'll always have people who prefer the classical *nix approach over anything else -mike pgptP04nsuaBx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Sunday 18 March 2007, Simon Stelling wrote: Petteri Räty wrote: Many applications save preferences in ~/.app/. When testing applications please make sure you test with an empty directory to catch cases when an upgrade works fine but a clean install doesn't. Thanks. Even better: Fix them to use ~/.config/app instead, so they don't clutter up the home unnecessarily :) i assume you mean of course to get our devs to get upstream to conform to freedesktop.org standards ... i like that a lot ;) -mike pgpNcCxM6XWHG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 03:38 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: what is the problem as you see it ? the nice thing about having a ~/.config/ is that it's a directory that can obviously be added to backups or sync programs for keeping $HOME the same across multiple machines ... you dont have to worry about having to filter large crap like cache files, temporary files, etc... -mike Strictly speaking, it should probably be ~/.etc/ in keeping with the rest of the filesystem naming scheme. seemant signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On 2007/03/19, Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the nice thing about having a ~/.config/ [...] Other nice things about it come from it not being an hardcoded path, but just a default for $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. For instance, when testing a new version of an application, you can XDG_CONFIG_HOME=$HOME/.config-test your-app, and get exactly what Petteri was recommending (the no old config around test) without moving/renaming your normal config dirs. Also, when sharing your homedir beetween two distributions which don't provide the same version of an application (which is often not much successful, like for instance foo-1.1 deleting options it doesn't known from foo-2.0 conf files, when it's not a complete breakage), you can play with $XDG_CONFIG_HOME to use two different dirs: ~/.config/foo (for foo-2.0 under distro1) ~/.config-debian/foo (for foo-1.1 under distro2) -- TGL. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Monday 19 March 2007, Seemant Kulleen wrote: On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 03:38 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: what is the problem as you see it ? the nice thing about having a ~/.config/ is that it's a directory that can obviously be added to backups or sync programs for keeping $HOME the same across multiple machines ... you dont have to worry about having to filter large crap like cache files, temporary files, etc... Strictly speaking, it should probably be ~/.etc/ in keeping with the rest of the filesystem naming scheme. yeah, a mini mirror of / would be neat ... that way you could cleanly differentiate between etc/ and var/lib/ and var/tmp/ and tmp/ and ... but i guess this is something to be discussed to death on freedesktop.org ;) -mike pgpBMfKR7tfsl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On 19/03/07, Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 19 March 2007, Seemant Kulleen wrote: On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 03:38 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: what is the problem as you see it ? the nice thing about having a ~/.config/ is that it's a directory that can obviously be added to backups or sync programs for keeping $HOME the same across multiple machines ... you dont have to worry about having to filter large crap like cache files, temporary files, etc... Strictly speaking, it should probably be ~/.etc/ in keeping with the rest of the filesystem naming scheme. yeah, a mini mirror of / would be neat ... that way you could cleanly differentiate between etc/ and var/lib/ and var/tmp/ and tmp/ and ... but i guess this is something to be discussed to death on freedesktop.org;) -mike Like many things in life, I think the use of ~/.config is ideal but generally unworkable. There is no real reason not to use it. Compartmentalisation and segmentation of file structures is the whole paradigm on which any FS is based. However my reason for hating ~/.app configurations is that the GTK file chooser dialog lists these hidden directories in its standard usage, which makes scrolling through 30-40 lines of directories an unnecessary PITA for every time I want to Save/Open a file. [Note, Where I have used ~/.config substitute in the relevant XDG standard env.] Just my two Centimes. Cheers Rob -- /** * Gentoo Linux * GPG : 0x2217D168 */
[gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Many applications save preferences in ~/.app/. When testing applications please make sure you test with an empty directory to catch cases when an upgrade works fine but a clean install doesn't. Thanks. Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Petteri Räty wrote: Many applications save preferences in ~/.app/. When testing applications please make sure you test with an empty directory to catch cases when an upgrade works fine but a clean install doesn't. Thanks. Even better: Fix them to use ~/.config/app instead, so they don't clutter up the home unnecessarily :) -- Kind Regards, Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Simon Stelling wrote: Even better: Fix them to use ~/.config/app instead, so they don't clutter up the home unnecessarily :) Won't it change how the vanilla upstream version and the one from portage behave? IMHO such changes are not a good idea. -- Krzysiek Pawlik nelchael at gentoo.org key id: 0xBC51 desktop-misc, desktop-dock, x86, java, apache, ppc... signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Hi, Won't that break configs/increase clutter for people who share their home directories between two distributions since they'll have to restort to symlinks to make stuff work? I myself have gentoo and ubuntu installed and am sharing my home directory between them. I have to use ubuntu for maintaining a couple of packages and I can't live without gentoo :) On 3/18/07, Simon Stelling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Petteri Räty wrote: Many applications save preferences in ~/.app/. When testing applications please make sure you test with an empty directory to catch cases when an upgrade works fine but a clean install doesn't. Thanks. Even better: Fix them to use ~/.config/app instead, so they don't clutter up the home unnecessarily :) -- Kind Regards, Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list -- Nirbheek Chauhan Sophomore UG Civil Engg ... -- Nirbheek Chauhan
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Krzysiek Pawlik kirjoitti: Simon Stelling wrote: Even better: Fix them to use ~/.config/app instead, so they don't clutter up the home unnecessarily :) Won't it change how the vanilla upstream version and the one from portage behave? IMHO such changes are not a good idea. Just send the patch upstream and only apply it after upstream accepts it. Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On 18/03/07, Nirbheek Chauhan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Won't that break configs/increase clutter for people who share their home directories between two distributions since they'll have to restort to symlinks to make stuff work? I myself have gentoo and ubuntu installed and am sharing my home directory between them. I have to use ubuntu for maintaining a couple of packages and I can't live without gentoo :) Yes it would. Also, files beginning with . are not shown unless you use the -A/-a flag and therefore the traditional place for them is ~. Although having a ~/.config directory might make ~ look a bit cleaner, the use of .app directories instead of .app files, which is usual these days, helps to minimize the clutter. Also, if you have a .config directory to put all these files in, ~ becomes less cluttered but ~/.config becomes VERY cluttered! Jeff. -- Q: What will happen in the Aftermath? A: Impossible to tell, since we're still in the Beforemath. http://latedeveloper.org.uk -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On 2007/03/18, Simon Stelling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even better: Fix them to use ~/.config/app instead
You mean ${XDG_CONFIG_HOME:-${HOME}/.config}/app, right?
http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ar01s03.html
--
TGL.
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Sunday 18 of March 2007 13:37:55 Jeff Rollin wrote: Also, if you have a .config directory to put all these files in, ~ becomes less cluttered but ~/.config becomes VERY cluttered! Nothing prevents from making appdirs in .config too. -- Best Regards, Piotr Jaroszyński -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On 18/03/07, Piotr Jaroszyński [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 18 of March 2007 13:37:55 Jeff Rollin wrote: Also, if you have a .config directory to put all these files in, ~ becomes less cluttered but ~/.config becomes VERY cluttered! Nothing prevents from making appdirs in .config too. True, but then .config would just become cluttered with .appdirs instead! -- Q: What will happen in the Aftermath? A: Impossible to tell, since we're still in the Beforemath. http://latedeveloper.org.uk
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Jeff Rollin napsal(a): On 18/03/07, Piotr Jaroszyński [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 18 of March 2007 13:37:55 Jeff Rollin wrote: Also, if you have a .config directory to put all these files in, ~ becomes less cluttered but ~/.config becomes VERY cluttered! Nothing prevents from making appdirs in .config too. True, but then .config would just become cluttered with .appdirs instead! It wouldn't become any more or less cluttered than ~/ now... -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On 18/03/07, Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Rollin napsal(a): On 18/03/07, Piotr Jaroszyński [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 18 of March 2007 13:37:55 Jeff Rollin wrote: Also, if you have a .config directory to put all these files in, ~ becomes less cluttered but ~/.config becomes VERY cluttered! Nothing prevents from making appdirs in .config too. True, but then .config would just become cluttered with .appdirs instead! It wouldn't become any more or less cluttered than ~/ now... Which is why I was saying there was no point in a ~/.config directory... Jeff -- Q: What will happen in the Aftermath? A: Impossible to tell, since we're still in the Beforemath. http://latedeveloper.org.uk
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:46:40 + Jeff Rollin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which is why I was saying there was no point in a ~/.config directory... Generally speaking one lists the contents of one's home directory more often than one lists ~/.config. It moves the clutter to a place where it's not so noticeable, and is thus a good thing. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] About testing applications
Jeff Rollin napsal(a): On 18/03/07, Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wouldn't become any more or less cluttered than ~/ now... Which is why I was saying there was no point in a ~/.config directory... I guess you are missing the point? Fire up Midnight Commander and watch the cruft in your ~/; sure there'd be a point to move all these config files to a dedicated directory, instead of having them directly in ~/ (and no, I don't want to hide 'hidden' directories, this is not a Windows Explorer :P) -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
