Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On Wed, 2005-05-18 at 11:18 -0400, Aron Griffis wrote: Bounties sound pretty scary to me. One of Gentoo's enduring qualities is that it is supported by volunteers. Injecting money into the development process will certainly change what problems get attention. I think I like it better when devs get to choose objectively what problems get attention, instead of being influenced by the promise of cash (or any other prize). I couldn't agree more. Sincerely, Brix -- Henrik Brix Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On 5/17/05, Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Frysinger wrote: On Monday 16 May 2005 08:01 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 19:45:05 -0400 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Monday 16 May 2005 07:08 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | What, so that you can see which bugs a small but vocal group of | ricers are interested in rather than the ones that're actually | important? | | once again, voting is optional ... if you dont want to pay attention | to them, then dont I would tend to agree with Klieber when he closed the actual bug about this issue that I read through a few weeks ago. The problem with leaving it optional being users vote a bunch on bug X and then the developer says he doesn't care, and then the users bitch because 'their precious voice was ignored'. Personally if users want crap that bad, they can submit the code themselves. Do you see such kind of bitching anywhere in the kde project? On the bugs where I looked I dont see anything, seems like people know that voting wont count as a means of pressure for developers. Most if not all of the developers here are volunteers, and just because a bunch of users vote up a bug doesn't particularly make it important to Many bugs in bugzilla have ebuilds contributed, the work is done, there is just no developer to add them to the tree and review them. Bugvoting would allow other developers to see where they can help. For example I am using kde but dont read all kde bugs, so if I would know there is a kde bug with many votes I would maybe look at it. work on. I think that if this is made clear enough somewhere, them this could work. Obviously voting is a very nice tool that could help out a lot of people who use it. It's just not worth it (IMHO) when it annoys the other half of the people who don't use it. We can alternatively introduce a customilzable Bugzilla, developers who dont want to see Votes can turn them off and will not see the Vote counts for bugs :) -- Stefan -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
Stefan Schweizer wrote: Many bugs in bugzilla have ebuilds contributed, the work is done, there is just no developer to add them to the tree and review them. Bugvoting would allow other developers to see where they can help. For example I am using kde but dont read all kde bugs, so if I would know there is a kde bug with many votes I would maybe look at it. I have mixed feelings about this. Voting would be useful to judge which package gathers sufficient popularity to be added to Portage for example. Currently only packages a developer cares for are added, voting would help to get user opinion. On the other hand, on base system bugs for example voting would be more a pressure tool that might not help much... We could enable voting on a New Ebuilds section and see how it goes ? -- Koon -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 09:58:43AM +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Stefan Schweizer wrote: Many bugs in bugzilla have ebuilds contributed, the work is done, there is just no developer to add them to the tree and review them. Bugvoting would allow other developers to see where they can help. For example I am using kde but dont read all kde bugs, so if I would know there is a kde bug with many votes I would maybe look at it. I have mixed feelings about this. Voting would be useful to judge which package gathers sufficient popularity to be added to Portage for example. Currently only packages a developer cares for are added, voting would help to get user opinion. On the other hand, on base system bugs for example voting would be more a pressure tool that might not help much... We could enable voting on a New Ebuilds section and see how it goes ? Seems like a good approach in my opinion. Most of the nays have basically come down to I don't want people voting on stuff I'm working on, I know what needs to be done, don't need extra input to discern it. Ebuild submissions fall squarely outside of that arguement, and would be a good test run of it. Personally, I'd be interested in it for actual portage bugs; that said, I'm not totally sure if I'd want it enabled _now_ since there are internal changes needed rather then more feature bloat, so voting would be ignored till internal bits are done. My 2 cents... ~harring -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On 5/16/05, Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 19:45:05 -0400 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] | On Monday 16 May 2005 07:08 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | What, so that you can see which bugs a small but vocal group of | ricers are interested in rather than the ones that're actually | important? | | once again, voting is optional ... if you dont want to pay attention | to them, then dont I would tend to agree with Klieber when he closed the actual bug about this issue that I read through a few weeks ago. The problem with leaving it optional being users vote a bunch on bug X and then the developer says he doesn't care, and then the users bitch because 'their precious voice was ignored'. They manage to do that pretty well already. Most if not all of the developers here are volunteers, and just because a bunch of users vote up a bug doesn't particularly make it important to work on. Agreed, but it can give a good indication of the bugs that a lot of users are running into. Right now that's handled by swarms of me too posts (and last time i checked, those couldn't be filtered by procmail too effectively either. ;]). Not saying those posts will disappear of course, just pointing out that it might not be a creation of another source of generally unwanted feedback, but a way to move this already existing feedback into a less annoying form. Mozilla is another good example of a bugzilla using a voting system with positive results (and they even have windows users ;]). But they also use the confirmed status and discourage 'me too' posts in favor of the vote system, which is something that might not work for Gentoo. --de. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On Tuesday 17 May 2005 10:13, Brian Harring wrote: On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 09:58:43AM +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Stefan Schweizer wrote: Many bugs in bugzilla have ebuilds contributed, the work is done, there is just no developer to add them to the tree and review them. Bugvoting would allow other developers to see where they can help. For example I am using kde but dont read all kde bugs, so if I would know there is a kde bug with many votes I would maybe look at it. I have mixed feelings about this. Voting would be useful to judge which package gathers sufficient popularity to be added to Portage for example. Currently only packages a developer cares for are added, voting would help to get user opinion. On the other hand, on base system bugs for example voting would be more a pressure tool that might not help much... We could enable voting on a New Ebuilds section and see how it goes ? Seems like a good approach in my opinion. Most of the nays have basically come down to I don't want people voting on stuff I'm working on, I know what needs to be done, don't need extra input to discern it. Ebuild submissions fall squarely outside of that arguement, and would be a good test run of it. Personally, I'd be interested in it for actual portage bugs; that said, I'm not totally sure if I'd want it enabled _now_ since there are internal changes needed rather then more feature bloat, so voting would be ignored till internal bits are done. So who can make the decision here? My 2 cents... ~harring mfg, heinrich :-) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
I just read this: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1055 and think it explains things very well. So here is just another call for enabling bug voting on bugs.gentoo.org mfg, heinrich :-) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On Tue, 17 May 2005 00:58:45 +0200 Heinrich Wendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I just read this: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1055 and | think it explains things very well. | | So here is just another call for enabling bug voting on | bugs.gentoo.org What, so that you can see which bugs a small but vocal group of ricers are interested in rather than the ones that're actually important? So that users can start whining that this really stupid bug has six zillion votes but no-one's implemented it!? So that certain people can carry on ignoring critical bugs under the pretense that low votes is the same as low importance? -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm pgpYcneJkr1iM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Heinrich Wendel wrote: I just read this: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1055 and think it explains things very well. I blogged [1] about this the other day. It also talks a bit about bounties, which I was actually more interested in. It's worth thinking about that it seems to be working well for KDE, without all the spamming etc that Ciaran thinks will happen. Thanks, Donnie 1. http://www.livejournal.com/users/spyderous/30950.html -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCiTEFXVaO67S1rtsRAsOQAJ93nN6//Of+AyRHt3VFjSlFqYpvKgCgrESq ya5I9b8AOl4npeeam7avYV0= =bSA/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On Monday 16 May 2005 07:08 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: What, so that you can see which bugs a small but vocal group of ricers are interested in rather than the ones that're actually important? once again, voting is optional ... if you dont want to pay attention to them, then dont shut up and let the devs who wish to utilize it do so -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:47:17 -0700 Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Heinrich Wendel wrote: | I just read this: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1055 and | think it explains things very well. | | I blogged [1] about this the other day. It also talks a bit about | bounties, which I was actually more interested in. Which would be even worse, since you'd end up getting cash offered for silly version bumps and package adds and nothing at all for critical stuff that the end user doesn't tend to see. Unlike KDE, we have multiple 'layers' -- we're not just working on directly user visible applications. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm pgpbXJjeyWIiN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
On Monday 16 May 2005 08:01 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 19:45:05 -0400 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Monday 16 May 2005 07:08 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | What, so that you can see which bugs a small but vocal group of | ricers are interested in rather than the ones that're actually | important? | | once again, voting is optional ... if you dont want to pay attention | to them, then dont Ok. Please provide me with a procmail rule that will filter bug comment emails which whine about votes being ignored whilst letting legit comments through. i dont see how that differs any from users whining about how a bug has been open foorever or how there's a billion people in the cc list and yet the fix still isnt in portage ! clearly developers are a bunch of jerk offs since my bug hasnt been fixed yesterday ! ive seen users complain on bugs/version bump requests that were open for less than 3 days and dealt with packages that were far from critical (i.e. a package in emulation or games) -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:47:17 -0700 Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Heinrich Wendel wrote: | I just read this: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1055 and | think it explains things very well. | | I blogged [1] about this the other day. It also talks a bit about | bounties, which I was actually more interested in. Which would be even worse, since you'd end up getting cash offered for silly version bumps and package adds and nothing at all for critical stuff that the end user doesn't tend to see. Unlike KDE, we have multiple 'layers' -- we're not just working on directly user visible applications. My idea was that the foundation would foot the bounties. It sounds as if you think the users would. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCiVS4XVaO67S1rtsRAnGlAKDrKoEFkfanyg9vewO1vRQ2ynuUbgCgqANv 8E4AnG7wuD8OI6tnSdizBc0= =YW5+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Another call for BugVoting on bugs.gentoo.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Frysinger wrote: On Monday 16 May 2005 08:01 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2005 19:45:05 -0400 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Monday 16 May 2005 07:08 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | What, so that you can see which bugs a small but vocal group of | ricers are interested in rather than the ones that're actually | important? | | once again, voting is optional ... if you dont want to pay attention | to them, then dont I would tend to agree with Klieber when he closed the actual bug about this issue that I read through a few weeks ago. The problem with leaving it optional being users vote a bunch on bug X and then the developer says he doesn't care, and then the users bitch because 'their precious voice was ignored'. Personally if users want crap that bad, they can submit the code themselves. Most if not all of the developers here are volunteers, and just because a bunch of users vote up a bug doesn't particularly make it important to work on. I think that if this is made clear enough somewhere, them this could work. Obviously voting is a very nice tool that could help out a lot of people who use it. It's just not worth it (IMHO) when it annoys the other half of the people who don't use it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBQolna2zglR5RwbyYAQKakw/8DkzL9lx9tILxXaEo3J6e81QcemBmBMtc 5TS3MdSx6H9qGSFwF1OzXF6TNm5PE+mq6TDH9j013+1OY6Wl1Ul9EP+LT+3xdnVQ EJJgxNsDaWdQlxWEHuBZF4gFK/kD2jAmGGNepi2CTMMEKMtHpyuapJHhKeIQdfdr BmZ/TGtFo8CZDnzy/UBOpjKnlBpuBwOrm9yCMlWo9bdyg3YEwbp9W9CLxiCedUIp q2iv8ykgb2/Fx5pEstdeU5fw+qu3mfemjo4ZQNStE/rJNB32BPDqCCvMnWixJ2C7 H8sesBkuwinh7oDSdyv2FhO2qAEJKSFhV9wK1la5nOt9IRyDQtNv5OpLsLw8OwAs /MhhskiLiB8ch4Y2Xr+TmyRlfzvSjmsU/D0K9k0bwFw+c2vDeD7iEEko7zesgTLT irMQ3mjPFvBcHphD3LQICT8/IgbjOJy18TQOShH9WXLTF+glyEBwX/80bTFQ+mLl ZS+ULdeVPs450h7VoOpIiIY4XPN5HDSS/hE87GwnKAUD3n7jUdhYy9bZr87OY0xC ltZIS+0WMSV469Qj5BWMkabmNeLifHfMLLohj2ZJ3L4gAt9rZ1Pb67yzVEXL/pL9 VdY520LUX8dXFOy21kTqSO9cpXfNJaoidXESs1QlgN/RHuCdehHaneOGnYKO6lfu kWUc16pboSw= =6rLe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
