Re: [gentoo-user] LVM problems -- mounting a foreign drive
Am Samstag, 3. November 2007 schrieb ext Daniel Rose:
Hi everyone,
I have an LVM comprising 2 partitions on a drive I wish to read data
from, and I have a 'main' file from somewhere in /etc/lvm from that old
drive:
main {
id = em7z2K-GhvB-mpW4-YNjE-SiZ7-zia2-PIObh2
[...]
physical_volumes {
pv0 {
id = 6oVVgd-WIVK-qB0y-PXk2-Acu5-ZxcI-gMj5JD
device = /dev/md2 # Hint only
status = [ALLOCATABLE] # 74.4062 Gigabytes
}
}
logical_volumes {
root {
id = Cu9udo-QFcL-72XW-G1OU-1sQA-giBa-WASzs2
status = [READ, WRITE, VISIBLE] #
74.125Gigabytes }
}
swap {
id = aM7Jm4-QfMW-4y2c-zCv3-0O6f-CVzz-P3Ebg4
status = [READ, WRITE, VISIBLE]#256
Megabytes }
Anyway so the lone disk is in a separate box now:
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hdd1 * 1 13 104391 fd Linux raid
autodetect
/dev/hdd2 14972978043770 fd Linux raid
autodetect
As it turns out, I can run pvcreate and pvdisplay ok, but a second run
of pvdisplay... and it's gone. vgcreate always fails.
Any ideas anyone? I'm a little startled at how hard it seems to be to
mount a 'foreign' LVM drive in Linux.
Looks like LVM is setup on top of a software RAID. Looks like you need to
use the sw raid tools first to bring up the RAID set.
Bye...
Dirk
--
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[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
Eric S. Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dirk Heinrichs wrote: heap. It's a classic example of second system syndrome as defined by the mythical Man month. Errh, what? rtfb it was published in 1972, is still in print and the first five chapters are as relevant today as they were when it was first published. It explains why software projects fail. I think it's pretty sad when failings in an industry recognized 35 years ago are still happening today. Brooks says write one system to throw away because you are going to anyway. The first time you implement, you don't understand the problem and you frequently leave out functionality or implement things in a clumsy or incorrect way. This next implementation you, in theory, understand the problem and can do a better job which leads us to... second system syndrome. when you implement a system for the second time you think you have the problem fully understood, add lots of features and capabilities and end up with a disaster on your hands because you over estimated your capabilities. which is really Fred Brooks's way of saying write two system to throw away because you're going to anyway. a great example of this is Microsoft. They rarely get anything right until the third version (implementation). Other examples are easily found if you just look. It's overly complicated, poorly documented, and has a terrible user interface that only a geek would even consider using. What's wrong with the excelent user guide on the project's site? Which of the three UIs exactly do you think is horrible? could never get the containers nesting right. What container nesting? Oh, you're talking about EVMS? I too never got the hang of it. I'm perfectly fine with using plain LVM. If the instructions on how to use an LVM can't be explained on a postcard, you don't understand how to communicate pvcreate /dev/hda vgcreate data /dev/hda lvcreate -L42g data mkfs /dev/data/lvol0 What's so hard about that? Does that fit on a postcard? -v: pvcreate /dev/hda: Intialize the device as a physical volume (pv), so that it can be used by LVM. One time job. vgcreate data /dev/hda: Create a container called data which will hold the different sub-containers. The data container is made up of the /dev/hda physical volume. lvcreate -L42g data: Create a logical volume (lv) on the data volume group (vg). It's sized 42g (42GiB). mkfs /dev/data/lvol0: Create a file system on the newly created lv. with your users or the implementation is really off. Nope. Some things simply *ARE* complicated. Alexander Skwar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
Eric S. Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric Martin wrote: drive. All I had to do was vgscan and vgchange -a y and I was up and running. Actually, I too had a problem with my VG's named the same thing. It wasn't a problem to access different LV's but I changed the VG anyway. As a pointer for people, you might want to append the name of your box to your VG, that way it will be (probably) unique on your network. Also you'll know where you are if you need to do a backup like I had to. that's a really good suggestion (appending the system name). As for the just doing a VGA scan etc., never work for me. What VGA scan? Usually the drive would not be recognized and as far as the new system is concerned, the only useful thing you could do with it was format. WFM. You must be doing something strange. Alexander Skwar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Getting system stats
All, I'm writing a piece of code that requires I gather the following statistics every second: - CPU Usage (as a percentage) - NIC I/O - Hard Drive I/O I later have to correlate these stats as a function of time. I'm not really sure where I should be looking to gather these statistics. I know about /proc/stat, but that's only CPU related (and I don't think /proc/sys will give me a CPU usage percentage anyways). I'm not sure if there exist other proc files that will give me the values for NIC and hard drive I/O (such as number of transactions per second). Thoughts? Thanks! .james -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
Dan Farrell wrote: Greetings all. I've just acquired a 4-port network card, and I set it up so that the 4 ports are each assigned an IP address, and gave all the IPs the name 'nfs' in DNS. Now I hope to point all the NFS clients at server 'nfs', and do some basic load balancing, while leaving the original address open for other services. My problem is that I haven't been able to weight the routes to the subnet in question. I've been using iproute2 and have read numerous documents online, but they all discuss multiple Internet gateways. I hope to find a way to send traffic coming in on each of the 4 interfaces back out that same interface, so the load can be balanced between them. Right now, all traffic goes out through the default route with the lowest metric. Eventually I also want to configure nfsd to listen only for connections on that host name, so that the original ethernet interface is left open for other services. Does anyone have any suggestions, or comments, or criticisms? Anybody konw how to do a thing like that? First off don't assign separate IPs to each port on your four port card, bond them into a single interface. That will simplify your config and perform better. Second, what sort of routing are you doing? If all the clients are on the same subnet as the four port card you should not need routing. Additionally if they are on the same subnet you should not be limited by the speed of your gateway which may or may not be able to route at 4 Gb/s whereas your switch may actually have that sort of performaance. Are the clients on a separate subnet and if so can you put them on the same subnet? kashani -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
On Wed, 2007-11-07 at 09:24 -0800, Grant wrote: I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage, memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc. My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful presentation. Is there a good package for this? - Grant In my previous response I thought you were looking more for a monitoring/graphing tool. For just graphing data I've had some success with matplotlib at work. It's an open source, pythonic version of matlab which, depending on your thoughts regarding Python and Matlab, may or may not appeal to you. -a -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
On Wed, 2007-11-07 at 09:24 -0800, Grant wrote: I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage, memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc. My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful presentation. Is there a good package for this? MRTG, Cacti, and ZenOSS come to mind, but you'll probably have to script custom plugins to grab the data. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: emerge update and time skell
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:25:24 +0900, Bryan Whitehead wrote: Wait 2 or more hours, reboot for good measure, and try again. On 11/7/07, Mateus Interciso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've recently made a change on my gentoo boxes on the time, which was 2 hours ahead, now when I'm trying to make some emerge --update, I always get a LOT of date mismatches, and some emerges are caught on a loop, how can I fix this? I've already made a new emerge --sync, and it didn't fixed. Also, when I try to start a service, like for instance mrtg, by using / etc/init.d/mrtg start, it complains about some files either on /etc/ conf.d or /etc/init.d having a future timestamp, but the timestamp are months or days behind... Thanks a lot. Mateus -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list Wait 2 or more hours, reboot for good measure, and try again.brbr divspan class=gmail_quoteOn 11/7/07, b class=gmail_sendernameMateus Interciso/b lt;a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/agt; wrote:/span blockquote class=gmail_quote style=PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solidHello, I#39;ve recently made a change on my gentoo boxes on the time, whichbrwas 2 hours ahead, now when I#39;m trying to make some emerge --update, I bralways get a LOT of date mismatches, and some emerges are caught on abrloop, how can I fix this? I#39;ve already made a new emerge --sync, and itbrdidn#39;t fixed.brAlso, when I try to start a service, like for instance mrtg, by using / bretc/init.d/mrtg start, it complains about some files either on /etc/brconf.d or /etc/init.d having a future timestamp, but the timestamp arebrmonths or days behind...brbrThanks a lot.brbrMateusbrbr--br a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a mailing listbrbr/blockquote/divbr I've already waited 2 days, and rebooted the machine, and nothing...still the same thing. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Gentoo on Sun LDOM?
Hi, anybody tried gentoo on a logical Domain on a Sun Niagara-Machine? Is there an existing boot-image for this or do I have to build this myself? Regards, Konstantin -- Dipl-Inf. Konstantin Agouros aka Elwood Blues. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Otkerstr. 28, 81547 Muenchen, Germany. Tel +49 89 69370185 Captain, this ship will not survive the forming of the cosmos. B'Elana Torres -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
Alexander Skwar wrote: Eric S. Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What VGA scan? sorry, speech recognition error. WFM. You must be doing something strange. no, I'm what speech recognition researchers call a goat. I take your bright shiny toys, and just by holding them in my hands, you can watch them crumble into shit. it's a talent and a curse. -- Speech-recognition in use. It makes mistakes, I correct some. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
Alexander Skwar wrote: Eric S. Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dirk Heinrichs wrote: heap. It's a classic example of second system syndrome as defined by the mythical Man month. Errh, what? rtfb it was published in 1972, is still in print and the first five chapters are as relevant today as they were when it was first published. It explains why software projects fail. I think it's pretty sad when failings in an industry recognized 35 years ago are still happening today. Brooks says write one system to throw away because you are going to anyway. The first time you implement, you don't understand the problem and you frequently leave out functionality or implement things in a clumsy or incorrect way. This next implementation you, in theory, understand the problem and can do a better job which leads us to... second system syndrome. when you implement a system for the second time you think you have the problem fully understood, add lots of features and capabilities and end up with a disaster on your hands because you over estimated your capabilities. which is really Fred Brooks's way of saying write two system to throw away because you're going to anyway. a great example of this is Microsoft. They rarely get anything right until the third version (implementation). Other examples are easily found if you just look. It's overly complicated, poorly documented, and has a terrible user interface that only a geek would even consider using. What's wrong with the excelent user guide on the project's site? Which of the three UIs exactly do you think is horrible? could never get the containers nesting right. What container nesting? Oh, you're talking about EVMS? I too never got the hang of it. I'm perfectly fine with using plain LVM. If the instructions on how to use an LVM can't be explained on a postcard, you don't understand how to communicate pvcreate /dev/hda vgcreate data /dev/hda lvcreate -L42g data mkfs /dev/data/lvol0 What's so hard about that? Does that fit on a postcard? it needs a little more detail so a user can extrapolate to what they need but, yeah that's basically what I'm looking for. I guess it's time to start the postcard series of documentation. :-) What is hard however is developing the postcard level documentation for disaster recovery. Again, that's something I'll work on when I have the time. -v: pvcreate /dev/hda: Intialize the device as a physical volume (pv), so that it can be used by LVM. One time job. would need reference physical volume, physical device associations (i.e. single disc or hardware raid). is there any way to display/enumerate them independent of non-LVM devices? (note: don't need an answer on this, it's just illustrating the kind of follow-on questions that come up.) vgcreate data /dev/hda: Create a container called data which will hold the different sub-containers. The data container is made up of the /dev/hda physical volume. what is a sub container? why is it needed? when do you need it? do/can you create a container spanning multiple devices? When, how, why? lvcreate -L42g data: Create a logical volume (lv) on the data volume group (vg). It's sized 42g (42GiB). again, is a logical volume a single physical volume? If the volume group called data (how did it get from container to volume group) is the same as the physical volume, why not just use the physical volume? mkfs /dev/data/lvol0: Create a file system on the newly created lv. in other words, the logical volume is treated by the system in exactly the same way as a physical volume. It's a logical disk. these are just some of the naïve user questions that come to mind. They aren't answers concisely in most of the documentation I have seen. Part of the reason I say explain it on a postcard is because the format forces you to focus your thoughts and explain the system concisely. the same technique as used in communicating with the busy suit although it's usually explaining your idea in 13 words or less. with your users or the implementation is really off. Nope. Some things simply *ARE* complicated. Richard Feynman, a great physicist, once stated that if you can not explain a (physics) problem at a freshman level then you don't understand the problem. Edward Tufte has a series of books on information design simplifying complicated things so that you can communicate clearly. Either of these men are smarter than you and I put together. I highly recommend reading Tufte's books or watch Feynman's testimony at the Challenger committee hearing where he shows with a glass of ice water the most likely explanation for the disaster. Clear, simple and easily understood by most people. If these men successfully live/lived by the guideline that complex explanations means you don't understand, I'm willing to accept it as true to make that one of my guiding principles. -- Speech-recognition in use. It makes mistakes, I correct some. -- [EMAIL
[gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
Greetings all. I've just aquired a 4-port network card, and I set it up so that the 4 ports are each assigned an IP address, and gave all the IPs the name 'nfs' in DNS. Now I hope to point all the NFS clients at server 'nfs', and do some basic load balancing, while leaving the original address open for other services. My problem is that I haven't been able to weight the routes to the subnet in question. I've been using iproute2 and have read numerous documents online, but they all discuss multiple Internet gateways. I hope to find a way to send traffic coming in on each of the 4 interfaces back out that same interface, so the load can be balanced between them. Right now, all traffic goes out through the default route with the lowest metric. Eventually I also want to configure nfsd to listen only for connections on that host name, so that the original ethernet interface is left open for other services. Does anyone have any suggestions, or comments, or criticisms? Anybody konw how to do a thing like that? Thanks, Dan -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 09:19:06 -0600, Dan Farrell wrote: I'm waiting for people to stop top-posting to this list, I guess I'll have a longer wait than you :( Heaven forbid we be as flexible on our list as the distribution whose name it bears ; ) Even Gentoo isn't flexible enough to reverse time :) http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/ says nothing about a November release, or any release date for 2007.1, and that page should be considered authoritative. Meanwhile, what's wrong with 2007.0? You get the same software after an update whichever install disc you start with. I wouldn't expect another 2007.1 disc. Why not boot from another distro's 2007 release if you're having problems? Or put the hard drive in another host. Releng lists a 2007.1 release, but only says it has not been released in November. -- Neil Bothwick Employ teenagers - while they know everything. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge update and time skell
Wait 2 or more hours, reboot for good measure, and try again. On 11/7/07, Mateus Interciso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've recently made a change on my gentoo boxes on the time, which was 2 hours ahead, now when I'm trying to make some emerge --update, I always get a LOT of date mismatches, and some emerges are caught on a loop, how can I fix this? I've already made a new emerge --sync, and it didn't fixed. Also, when I try to start a service, like for instance mrtg, by using / etc/init.d/mrtg start, it complains about some files either on /etc/ conf.d or /etc/init.d having a future timestamp, but the timestamp are months or days behind... Thanks a lot. Mateus -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
I´m waiting for too. 2007/11/7, 525225097 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are somebody said the gentoo 2007.1 will release in this man month it is wrong or right.Is there more detailed information。 Thinks -- 网 易 股 吧， 每 天 有 500 万 股 民 在 此 讨 论 http://event.mail.163.com/chanel/click.htm?from=NO_23domain=163
Re: [gentoo-user] Audio/Mpeg
Liviu Andronic wrote: On 10/11/07, sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firefox is complaining that a plugin is not available for audio/mpeg support. Any recommendations on getting support? Not sure if it helps: emerge mplayerplug-in and recently (by the same author(s)) emerge gnome-mplayer gecko-mediaplayer Regards, Liviu Thanks Liviu. This did the trick. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
On Wednesday 07 November 2007 18:30:22 kashani wrote: Does anyone have any suggestions, or comments, or criticisms? Anybody konw how to do a thing like that? First off don't assign separate IPs to each port on your four port card, bond them into a single interface. That will simplify your config and perform better. Yup, bonding is really cool, and trivially simple to setup. Enable CONFIG_BONDING as a module, in Network device support. Install ifenslave, then edit /etc/modules.d/bond, like this: alias bond1 bonding options bond1 mode=1 miimon=100 max_bonds=5 You probably want mode 0, I use mode 1 for redundancy only. Then change your net config to something like this: config_eth0=( null ) config_eth4=( null ) RC_NEED_bond1=net.eth0 net.eth4 slaves_bond1=eth0 eth4 config_bond1=( 192.168.1.1/24 ) Then you use bondX from then on (no net.ethX should be in any runlevel). -- Mike Williams -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
On Nov 7, 2007 9:24 AM, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of
transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage,
memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc.
My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http
traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the
data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful
presentation. Is there a good package for this?
If you want to use PHP to do this, check out JpGraph:
http://www.aditus.nu/jpgraph/
(also in portage - emerge dev-php{4,5}/jpgraph)
HTH-
James
- Grant
--
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Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
On 11/7/07, Dan Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:34:19 + Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:46:30 -0300, Danilo Marcelo wrote: I´m waiting for too. I'm waiting for people to stop top-posting to this list, I guess I'll have a longer wait than you :( Heaven forbid we be as flexible on our list as the distribution whose name it bears ; ) http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/ says nothing about a November release, or any release date for 2007.1, and that page should be considered authoritative. Meanwhile, what's wrong with 2007.0? You get the same software after an update whichever install disc you start with. I wouldn't expect another 2007.1 disc. Why not boot from another distro's 2007 release if you're having problems? Or put the hard drive in another host. As already mentioned, there are so many options. I like to think the devs put more effort on packages updates and bug fixes and are not spending time creating a new disc release... Anyone using this distro for a while have almost forgotten about this. It reminds me the old days when no one was kind enough to introduce me to Gentoo and I was still using binary distros depending on 6 months schedules for bug fixes. I don't miss those days. -- Daniel da Veiga Filosofia de TI: Programadores de verdade consideram o conceito o que você vê é o que você tem tão ruim em editores de texto quanto em mulheres. Não, o programador de verdade quer um editor de texto do estilo você pediu, você levou - complicado, indecifrável, poderoso, impiedoso, perigoso. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: emerge update and time skell
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:28:31 +, Mateus Interciso wrote: On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:25:24 +0900, Bryan Whitehead wrote: Wait 2 or more hours, reboot for good measure, and try again. On 11/7/07, Mateus Interciso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've recently made a change on my gentoo boxes on the time, which was 2 hours ahead, now when I'm trying to make some emerge --update, I always get a LOT of date mismatches, and some emerges are caught on a loop, how can I fix this? I've already made a new emerge --sync, and it didn't fixed. Also, when I try to start a service, like for instance mrtg, by using / etc/init.d/mrtg start, it complains about some files either on /etc/ conf.d or /etc/init.d having a future timestamp, but the timestamp are months or days behind... Thanks a lot. Mateus -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list Wait 2 or more hours, reboot for good measure, and try again.brbr divspan class=gmail_quoteOn 11/7/07, b class=gmail_sendernameMateus Interciso/b lt;a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/agt; wrote:/span blockquote class=gmail_quote style=PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solidHello, I#39;ve recently made a change on my gentoo boxes on the time, whichbrwas 2 hours ahead, now when I#39;m trying to make some emerge --update, I bralways get a LOT of date mismatches, and some emerges are caught on abrloop, how can I fix this? I#39;ve already made a new emerge --sync, and itbrdidn#39;t fixed.brAlso, when I try to start a service, like for instance mrtg, by using / bretc/init.d/mrtg start, it complains about some files either on /etc/brconf.d or /etc/init.d having a future timestamp, but the timestamp arebrmonths or days behind...brbrThanks a lot.brbrMateusbrbr--br a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a mailing listbrbr/blockquote/divbr I've already waited 2 days, and rebooted the machine, and nothing...still the same thing. Sorry guys, I found the error, I've incorrectly setted the date, and the server went back 6 months :O Thanks a lot. Mateus -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] emerge update and time skell
Hello, I've recently made a change on my gentoo boxes on the time, which was 2 hours ahead, now when I'm trying to make some emerge --update, I always get a LOT of date mismatches, and some emerges are caught on a loop, how can I fix this? I've already made a new emerge --sync, and it didn't fixed. Also, when I try to start a service, like for instance mrtg, by using / etc/init.d/mrtg start, it complains about some files either on /etc/ conf.d or /etc/init.d having a future timestamp, but the timestamp are months or days behind... Thanks a lot. Mateus -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage, memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc. My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful presentation. Is there a good package for this? - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
Most f the questions you have asked are really LVM 101 type questions (not any particular implementation of LVM, but LVM in general). So yes, to use LVM/EVMS/whatever you sort of have to understand the underlying principle of what/why. There's a basic explanation at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_volume_management No, it doesn't fit on a postcard. Nope. Some things simply *ARE* complicated. Richard Feynman, a great physicist, once stated that if you can not explain a (physics) problem at a freshman level then you don't understand the problem. Edward Tufte has a series of books on information design simplifying complicated things so that you can communicate clearly. Either of these men are smarter than you and I put together. I highly recommend reading Tufte's books or watch Feynman's testimony at the Challenger committee hearing where he shows with a glass of ice water the most likely explanation for the disaster. Clear, simple and easily understood by most people. If these men successfully live/lived by the guideline that complex explanations means you don't understand, I'm willing to accept it as true to make that one of my guiding principles. Often simplifications lead to inaccuracies, misinterpretations, and confusion. I'm sure Tufte could have compressed his series of books to a series of postcards as well. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
I don´t have any problem with 2007.0, but a new release is always welcome. 2007/11/7, Dan Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:34:19 + Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:46:30 -0300, Danilo Marcelo wrote: I´m waiting for too. I'm waiting for people to stop top-posting to this list, I guess I'll have a longer wait than you :( Heaven forbid we be as flexible on our list as the distribution whose name it bears ; ) http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/ says nothing about a November release, or any release date for 2007.1, and that page should be considered authoritative. Meanwhile, what's wrong with 2007.0? You get the same software after an update whichever install disc you start with. I wouldn't expect another 2007.1 disc. Why not boot from another distro's 2007 release if you're having problems? Or put the hard drive in another host. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:34:19 + Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:46:30 -0300, Danilo Marcelo wrote: I´m waiting for too. I'm waiting for people to stop top-posting to this list, I guess I'll have a longer wait than you :( Heaven forbid we be as flexible on our list as the distribution whose name it bears ; ) http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/ says nothing about a November release, or any release date for 2007.1, and that page should be considered authoritative. Meanwhile, what's wrong with 2007.0? You get the same software after an update whichever install disc you start with. I wouldn't expect another 2007.1 disc. Why not boot from another distro's 2007 release if you're having problems? Or put the hard drive in another host. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:46:30 -0300, Danilo Marcelo wrote: I´m waiting for too. I'm waiting for people to stop top-posting to this list, I guess I'll have a longer wait than you :( http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/ says nothing about a November release, or any release date for 2007.1, and that page should be considered authoritative. Meanwhile, what's wrong with 2007.0? You get the same software after an update whichever install disc you start with. Admittedly, it can be a little more tricky installing if the disc doesn't support your network card, but not impossible. This box has a card not supported by 2007.0 but it was still installable. -- Neil Bothwick Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
Hi, On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 09:24:35 -0800 Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage, memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc. My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful presentation. Is there a good package for this? I think net-analyzer/rrdtool will probably come close to this. It's used by many other solutions, so you'll find a lot of examples on the Web. -hwh -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:46:30 -0300 Danilo Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I´m waiting for too. Why? From my POV the only valid reason for someone to want a new Gentoo release is if (s)he wants to install it on a new hardware, which is not supported by the latest release. On the other hand I've installed Gentoo from its own CD only once. In all other cases (including my first install) I've done the installation in chroot from another, already installed, GNU/Linux distro [1] or from any bootable GNU/Linux CD [1] which supports the hard disk controllers, console and the network device. Yet another reason to love Gentoo! ;-) In other words I don't need too many releases, but prefer the devs spend their time for Gentoo on killing :) bugs and filling portage with new software instead of taking snapshots and building CD/DVD images. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml -- Best regards, Daniel -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 00:10 +0200, Daniel Iliev wrote: On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:46:30 -0300 Danilo Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I´m waiting for too. Why? From my POV the only valid reason for someone to want a new Gentoo release is if (s)he wants to install it on a new hardware, which is not supported by the latest release. On the other hand I've installed Gentoo from its own CD only once. In all other cases (including my first install) I've done the installation in chroot from another, already installed, GNU/Linux distro [1] or from any bootable GNU/Linux CD [1] which supports the hard disk controllers, console and the network device. Yet another reason to love Gentoo! ;-) In other words I don't need too many releases, but prefer the devs spend their time for Gentoo on killing :) bugs and filling portage with new software instead of taking snapshots and building CD/DVD images. Yeah, there's like a billion other boot media that can install Gentoo. I prefer RIPLinux myself for hardware installs. For VMs I have a base image that I copy to a new one, boot into it and then just do an 'emerge --update...' -a -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting system stats
On Wednesday 07 November 2007, James wrote: All, I'm writing a piece of code that requires I gather the following statistics every second: - CPU Usage (as a percentage) - NIC I/O - Hard Drive I/O I later have to correlate these stats as a function of time. I'm not really sure where I should be looking to gather these statistics. I know about /proc/stat, but that's only CPU related (and I don't think /proc/sys will give me a CPU usage percentage anyways). I'm not sure if there exist other proc files that will give me the values for NIC and hard drive I/O (such as number of transactions per second). Thoughts? First thought that comes in my mind is to have a look at source code of such programms as: - gkrellm - top/htop - iptraf I think you can find there all information you need -- best regards, Aleksey V. Kunitskiy my public GPG/PGP key: http://www.alexey-kv.org.ua/pubkey.asc signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] I can't get traffic shaping to work properly :(
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:23:36 -0800 Xamindar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have tried following the howto here: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Packet_Shaping But it doesn't work. First of all it ends up limiting both upload AND download. I have tried a few different ways with all the same result. Anyone know what is wrong here? === Some get annoyed and don't read from this point on stuff :) All that follows represents my personal conclusions based on my personal trial and error experience. These conclusions may be totally wrong. They are not based on any official sources of information. Please, consider seeking answers at the HTB Home site: http://luxik.cdi.cz/~devik/qos/htb/ === First. $UPRATE and $UPCELL should be equal to each other and *must* be at their maximum equal to your full upload bandwidth as granted by the ISP. Even better if they are a little bit smaller (let's say 5-10%, YMMW). Otherwise the shaper gives unpredictable results such as significant delays followed by uncontrolled bursts. Next. Basically you have 2 choices. (1) To share the unused bandwidth between the classes or (2) to give them strict limits. (1) Shared traffic The sum of the rates should be equal (or less) to the rate of the parent class. In your case: $P2PRATE + $PRIORATE[1-4] = $UPRATE And the individual cells should be equal (or less) than $UPRATE (as you have done) This way a given class has guaranteed speed = its rate and is allowed to take (borrow) the unused traffic from any other siblings (up to the size of its cell). In your example 128+65+46+27+8 152. Consider changing the values to get equal sign instead of greater than. (2) Strict limits (I doubt you wont this) Every class has its rate=its cell and the sum of the rates should not be bigger than the traffic allocated for the parent class. This means 1:1 becomes useless in you case. Last. All other cases (like giving more than one has) seem to me irrational. Please, give some feed back on your results if you decide to follow the above info as advices. -- Best regards, Daniel -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
Thanks for your responses, all. On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:30:22 -0800 kashani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off don't assign separate IPs to each port on your four port card, bond them into a single interface. That will simplify your config and perform better. Perhaps I will; that's not a bad idea. However, I will still have another interface that is to handle non-NFS traffic. (The reason I split it this way, by the way, is that NFS is the only network service that might potentially be limited by bandwith. Second, what sort of routing are you doing? If all the clients are on the same subnet as the four port card you should not need routing. Additionally if they are on the same subnet you should not be limited by the speed of your gateway which may or may not be able to route at 4 Gb/s whereas your switch may actually have that sort of performaance. Are the clients on a separate subnet and if so can you put them on the same subnet? No, they're all on the same subnet. Each of the 5 interfaces adds a route to that subnet (no gateway, as you said, it's the same broadcast domain) but the routes all have different metrics. The first such route chosen is the one that gets all the traffic. The NFS server is used primarily for Read access, so this routing problem does a pretty good job mitigating any benefit of having so many interfaces. Oh, by the way, this is 100-T, not Gigabit. Do I sound rich to you : ) ? So, let's say I bond the 4 together. Now I have 2 interfaces, a bond and eth0. I still need to route through one or the other, so I still have the problem. I am reading about policy routing, which should be able to solve the problem by allowing routing based on the source rather than the destination. I will keep the lists informed... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
On Wed, 2007-11-07 at 19:10 +0100, Hans-Werner Hilse wrote: Hi, On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 09:24:35 -0800 Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage, memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc. My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful presentation. Is there a good package for this? I think net-analyzer/rrdtool will probably come close to this. It's used by many other solutions, so you'll find a lot of examples on the Web. +1 to rrdtool. At my company, we set up rrdtool to graph 100's of graphs per day on all sorts of data from different sources. It's very customisable, if you want to spend the time on it. I also found the creator and forum very supportive. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Oh my God, someone's trying to kill me! Oh wait, it's for Bart. -- Homer Simpson Cape Feare -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:47:19 +0100 Mike Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 November 2007 18:30:22 kashani wrote: Does anyone have any suggestions, or comments, or criticisms? Anybody konw how to do a thing like that? First off don't assign separate IPs to each port on your four port card, bond them into a single interface. That will simplify your config and perform better. Yup, bonding is really cool, and trivially simple to setup. Enable CONFIG_BONDING as a module, in Network device support. Install ifenslave, then edit /etc/modules.d/bond, like this: alias bond1 bonding options bond1 mode=1 miimon=100 max_bonds=5 You probably want mode 0, I use mode 1 for redundancy only. Then change your net config to something like this: config_eth0=( null ) config_eth4=( null ) RC_NEED_bond1=net.eth0 net.eth4 slaves_bond1=eth0 eth4 config_bond1=( 192.168.1.1/24 ) Then you use bondX from then on (no net.ethX should be in any runlevel). Thanks for the quick howto. I'm running through it now. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] The setup program seems to have failed.
Hello everyone. I use Debian GNU/Linux since ten years, on 32-bit Intel machines. And now I bought a new computer, my first 64-bit machine. Its a Gigabyte GA-M57SLI-S4 mobo, with a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ CPU, so I thought that on such powerful beast, Gentoo will be a good choice, things will compile fast enough. I am stuck with a The setup program seems to have failed. error during installation, so I'll tell you exactly what I dit. OK, so what I did was: wget http://bouncer.gentoo.org/fetch/gentoo-2007.0-livecd/amd64/ Then, this machine doesn't have, nor will ever have any hard drives, nor CD/DVD/any-moving-media drives, the only things that I want to ever attach to it are USB flash pendrives and the Ethernet cable. So I bought one 1 GB USB pendrive, and two 2 GB USB pendrives to play with, and with the 1 GB pendrive I followed these intructions: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/liveusb.xml and that worked well, I have this bootable USB stick with Gentoo image now. After that boots and I get the Gnome desktop, I switch to text console, I insert one of the 2 GB pendrives into another USB slot, and the screen tells me to type installer, so I do it. I choose standard and Internet enabled and then he asks me Which drive would you like to partition? and shows me /dev/sda and /dev/sdb to choose from, where /dev/sda is my 1 GB boot stick, and /dev/sdb is my empty 2 GB stick. So I choose /dev/sdb, and then the program quits printing as its last words this not-very-useful message: The setup program seems to have failed. So I am stuck here, what to do? P.S. This machine has 2 GB RAM, and I plan to buy another 2 GB or 4 GB more, and then install Gentoo in such a way that the USB pendrive would only be needed during bootup, i.e. that a compressed ramfs image would be on the stick, and once it extracts into initramfs or something like that, it could be removed, and whole system will run from RAM, ramfs, XiP (execute in place) - that's what I want to do. But right now I can't even do a basic install, so some help would be great. -- Miernik http://miernik.name/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Donnerstag, 8. November 2007, James wrote: two things: memory. Every mb wasted for X - or even worse gnome, the biggest memory hog out there - is a mb that can't be used by gcc. Thus a graphical environment slows down installation. cd/dvd space. Every mb wasted for a full blown X and a harddisk/dvd/cd space hog like gnome is a mb that can not be used for providing distfiles, stages or GRP packages thus increasing the time the installing user has to wait to fetch them from the net. This two points are very valid reasons why graphical installers are bad. There are even more reasons, but I am just too lazy at the moment. Think about bugs - you should find them yourself. Btw, I remember the days when all installation instructions fit on one sheet of Din A5 paper - and installing was easier than to beat the graphical installer into submission. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 02:24 +, James wrote: [...] All you have said presupposes one (erroneous) assumption: that is an easy to use graphical install cannot be used if the distro is source code based. Nothing could be further from the truth. An easy to use graphical installation, should only be for getting the HD prepared, kernel installed and a minimum number of software packages installed. Then the customizing could continue as is normal via the handbook. Actually I did not make that assumption, and in fact tried (and failed obviously) to de-emphasize Gentoo being source based... yep, only mentioned it once. What I did mention multiple times (which apparently did not come across) was the low-level, hands-on approach that Gentoo has traditionally taken (of which being source based is only a part). A graphical install tool, while certainly welcome as another choice for Gentoo users to make, doesn't exactly fit that tradition. A nice graphical installation process would help the distro grow and gain presence in more places, which is always a good thing. The 'mindset' that if gentoo had some easy to use graphical install, it would alter the mega-distro (sourcecode) nature of Gentoo, is misguided at best. I.E. they are not mutually exclusive, but complimentary. I have nothing against a graphical installation per se (other than it being mandatory). My only issue with the current implementation is simple: A lot of people who use it find it doesn't work. This gives Gentoo a bad rep. People use it and assume all of Gentoo is going to be easy-to-use. Then feel disappointed when it isn't. This gives Gentoo a bad rep. Distros survive, regardless of being free or for sell, because they attract a large user base. Gentoo needs an easy to use, graphical installation CD, period. What I would do is lower(simplify) the goals of what that installation CD accomplishes. Once you get a drive prepared, kernel installed and the basic tools installed (binary or compiled). At that point, it's fairly straightforward to turn the box into a server, firewall, or workstation. There are lots of distros (Linux and non-Linux) that either don't have a graphical install and/or don't have a large user base and still survive. I mean Slackware is probably the oldest living distro, is still kicking and screaming (for some strange reason) and it doesn't even have decent package management. OpenBSD, which Gentoo more closely resembles than Ubuntu, has been around almost as long as Slack and it doesn't have a graphical installation. You, nor any respondent has given one shred of evidence as to why the installation CD cannot be graphical, easy to use and still be the gentoo we all know and love ( that is source code based). Its only a guess, but I think the devs that work on the CD are trying to make the installation full featured just like going through the handbook. Simplify and drop those troublesome features/options found in the handbook, in order to simplify the creation of an installation CD. After all 3 types of stages use to be offered, now the stage 3 is the most preferred. In the end you still end up with the same gentoo system regardless if you use stage 1 or stage 3, eventually. If someone wants to develop and maintain a graphical installation cd as an alternative to the native one than that's cool so long as I'm not forced to use it. If the current one worked most of the time and wasn't misleading I wouldn't have a problem with it, in fact I'd probably wouldn't even have heard of it. Unfortunately it doesn't not seem to meet those stantards. Does it not sound a little weird that many folks recommend using another installation CD to facilitate the installation of Gentoo? Not installation CD: boot media. But to answer your question I don't find it weird at all. It's one of the selling points of Gentoo. A few months ago I installed Gentoo on a partition on a machine that was installed with Ubuntu just by creating a partition, downloading a stage3 tarball and doing a chroot. Maybe it's weird to the outsider, but I think it's wonderful. -- Albert W. Hopkins -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Em Qui 08 Nov 2007, James escreveu: Albert Hopkins marduk at letterboxes.org writes: I chose Gentoo to get away from the major distros. There is plenty of competition in that market. Let Gentoo be Gentoo and not Yet Another Ubuntu [TM]. [...] You, nor any respondent has given one shred of evidence as to why the installation CD cannot be graphical, easy to use and still be the gentoo we all know and love ( that is source code based). [...] Since I'm not an English native speaker, I apologize for my _very_ poor English. I also apologize for any mistake in text interpretation... I _think_ that build a lot of boot CDs (2007.0, 2007.1, 2007.2, 2007.3 and so on) is an wasting of time and get off the KISS principle. You already have a _lot_ of boot CDs and/or another methods in order to install your Gentoo's system on a new machine. So, why should I* build an new boot CD just for two* people use? I could use this time in order to fix bugs, improve installations UI, give a bath in my dog or watch a movie with my girlfriend... :-) _But_ I agree that Gentoo _should_ have an better/easiest installation method for those days when you can't wait and/or be typing 83465247238 commands. :-P So: I _think_ that Gentoo's installation CD can have an/be graphical installer, but __I__ still also _think_ that's a wasting of time. :-) * So, why should I build an new boot CD just for two people use? = I'm not an developer. But I think that you understand my point. :-) Best regards, -- Davi Vidal -- E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GTalk : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype : davi vidal ICQ : 138815296 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
I'm going to take a lot of liberties both with humorous informality (hopefully you'll agree with that name for it) and argument; please accept it as a cheerfully submitted 'other side of the argument'. On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:32:58 + (UTC) James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Iliev daniel.iliev at gmail.com writes: I´m waiting for too. Why? ... Well, I think that fixing that abortion of an installation CD is of paramount concern. Like it or not, the first thing prospective new users see, is the installation process. In my opinion, it is of quintessential importance for Gentoo to have a normal, functional, easy installation CD. gentoo is unlike ubuntu (for example) in that if you're using portage, you're probably going to have to be comfortable at the command line. That's why i've always been skeptical of the graphical install process. It's not a very user-friendly distro to run, either. It's a very command-line-centric distro, and not particularly well suited to people who just want to 'install linux and get on with using their computers' -- although, i think it would be a great foundation for that kind of an install. A stage 4, as it were, that was more officially supported by the distro. After all, can we really expect installation from source to go flawlessly for all those packages , for all those users accross the web? from that point of view, gentoo doesn't have a 'distribution' install cd at all, but rather a script to automate the manual install process. and I think an official Stage 4 going to satisfy your concerns and preserve the gentoo philosophy the best. Anyhow... I've been using Gentoo since 2004. I know graduate students in Computer Science that use Ubuntu in lieu of Gentoo, solely based on the nightmare that installing Gentoo via a normal graphical install CD is Yeah, but if they would have used the minimal cd like graduate students in Computer Science should, they probably would have been fine ; ) If you ask me, the graphical cds gave us more bad press than the lack thereof. If you do not like my opinion, you should look at what Daniel Robbins had to say, as I ran across a posting of his today, about this very issue. (but no link, how can I?) An awesome collection of techies does not gravitate users to join the ranks of distro users. A (easy) graphical installation method is a requirement. Gentoo get's tons of bad reviews, based on the installation process. True, too true. There is altogether too little press concerning the manual install process, cherished (apparently) by everyone who actually uses gentoo and doesn't just install it. And far too little coverage of the parts of gentoo that rock -- that's the thing about reviewers: they are doing workstation installs and they don't generally do much package management before writing up the review and moving on to the next distro. There _are_ good things about gentoo, unique things that no other distributions offer -- I think the active members the list and the forums agree to that. But these things aren't the automatic install process ( I consider the manual install process one of them, if you haven't noticed). Yes I've installed dozens of gentoo system, and the resulting product is wonderful, much akin to a girl with a great personality. However, she ain't every going to get 'laid' (become popular) because the (installation) process is *UGLY*. If you think the command line is ugly. If you ask me, it's ncurses that's ugly. Command line doesn't look great, but it works pretty slick. all those unix people were really thinking... Let us first be honest about this, so it can be fixed. At that point ( a normal installation CD), Gentoo can take it's rightful place as a major distro I agree that this is very important to the popularity of gentoo... but _not_ to its usability post-install. That's why I think the balance must be walked delicately, because with if there is too much emphesis on what is basically marketing, I worry along with the others that the quality of the product will suffer. That's why it seems that an official stage4 would be a good compromise. It should be pretty easy to make it into a bootable cd or usb stick, or you could just un-tar it and run grub in a script file, after setting up a few values (hostname, etc). But you still get portage and the slickness of gentoo, right off the bat. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Albert Hopkins marduk at letterboxes.org writes: I chose Gentoo to get away from the major distros. There is plenty of competition in that market. Let Gentoo be Gentoo and not Yet Another Ubuntu [TM]. All you have said presupposes one (erroneous) assumption: that is an easy to use graphical install cannot be used if the distro is source code based. Nothing could be further from the truth. An easy to use graphical installation, should only be for getting the HD prepared, kernel installed and a minimum number of software packages installed. Then the customizing could continue as is normal via the handbook. A nice graphical installation process would help the distro grow and gain presence in more places, which is always a good thing. The 'mindset' that if gentoo had some easy to use graphical install, it would alter the mega-distro (sourcecode) nature of Gentoo, is misguided at best. I.E. they are not mutually exclusive, but complimentary. Distros survive, regardless of being free or for sell, because they attract a large user base. Gentoo needs an easy to use, graphical installation CD, period. What I would do is lower(simplify) the goals of what that installation CD accomplishes. Once you get a drive prepared, kernel installed and the basic tools installed (binary or compiled). At that point, it's fairly straightforward to turn the box into a server, firewall, or workstation. You, nor any respondent has given one shred of evidence as to why the installation CD cannot be graphical, easy to use and still be the gentoo we all know and love ( that is source code based). Its only a guess, but I think the devs that work on the CD are trying to make the installation full featured just like going through the handbook. Simplify and drop those troublesome features/options found in the handbook, in order to simplify the creation of an installation CD. After all 3 types of stages use to be offered, now the stage 3 is the most preferred. In the end you still end up with the same gentoo system regardless if you use stage 1 or stage 3, eventually. Does it not sound a little weird that many folks recommend using another installation CD to facilitate the installation of Gentoo? James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:22:30 -0600 Albert Hopkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] There are lots of distros (Linux and non-Linux) that either don't have a graphical install and/or don't have a large user base and still survive. I mean Slackware is probably the oldest living distro, is still kicking and screaming (for some strange reason) and it doesn't even have decent package management. OpenBSD, which Gentoo more closely resembles than Ubuntu, has been around almost as long as Slack and it doesn't have a graphical installation. Yeah, they still survive. But why don't we expect more? Let Gentoo be much more popular. [...] Not installation CD: boot media. But to answer your question I don't find it weird at all. It's one of the selling points of Gentoo. A few months ago I installed Gentoo on a partition on a machine that was installed with Ubuntu just by creating a partition, downloading a stage3 tarball and doing a chroot. Maybe it's weird to the outsider, but I think it's wonderful. For the advanced users, your creating, downloading and chrooting is as easy as pie. But for the outsider, it's rather complicated, and they wonder why this step should taken instead of another. The easy-to-use installation CD is good for starters, gives them a good impression. We can't expect that all the Gentoo users should be a linux geek first, and then have a try on Gentoo linux sytem. [...] -- Guanqun -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] The setup program seems to have failed.
On (08/11/07 05:23) Miernik wrote: Hello everyone. I use Debian GNU/Linux since ten years, on 32-bit Intel machines. And now I bought a new computer, my first 64-bit machine. Its a Gigabyte GA-M57SLI-S4 mobo, with a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ CPU, so I thought that on such powerful beast, Gentoo will be a good choice, things will compile fast enough. I am stuck with a The setup program seems to have failed. error during installation, so I'll tell you exactly what I dit. OK, so what I did was: wget http://bouncer.gentoo.org/fetch/gentoo-2007.0-livecd/amd64/ Then, this machine doesn't have, nor will ever have any hard drives, nor CD/DVD/any-moving-media drives, the only things that I want to ever attach to it are USB flash pendrives and the Ethernet cable. So I bought one 1 GB USB pendrive, and two 2 GB USB pendrives to play with, and with the 1 GB pendrive I followed these intructions: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/liveusb.xml and that worked well, I have this bootable USB stick with Gentoo image now. After that boots and I get the Gnome desktop, I switch to text console, I insert one of the 2 GB pendrives into another USB slot, and the screen tells me to type installer, so I do it. I choose standard and Internet enabled and then he asks me Which drive would you like to partition? and shows me /dev/sda and /dev/sdb to choose from, where /dev/sda is my 1 GB boot stick, and /dev/sdb is my empty 2 GB stick. So I choose /dev/sdb, and then the program quits printing as its last words this not-very-useful message: The setup program seems to have failed. So I am stuck here, what to do? P.S. This machine has 2 GB RAM, and I plan to buy another 2 GB or 4 GB more, and then install Gentoo in such a way that the USB pendrive would only be needed during bootup, i.e. that a compressed ramfs image would be on the stick, and once it extracts into initramfs or something like that, it could be removed, and whole system will run from RAM, ramfs, XiP (execute in place) - that's what I want to do. But right now I can't even do a basic install, so some help would be great. -- Miernik http://miernik.name/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list Hi, The graphical installer is known to fail sometimes (not always :-) Many people prefer the (old) install method - using a terminal. i've been following (svn) the quickstart script, meant to do a console install. Don't have a link but if anyone is interested will get it (IIRC it's in graphical-installed dev personal place). Would be interested on any experience about it's usability. HTH. Rumen -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: The setup program seems to have failed.
Rumen Yotov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The graphical installer is known to fail sometimes (not always :-) Many people prefer the (old) install method - using a terminal. I was not using a graphical installer, I went to a terminal (text console), and typed installer, is that what I am supposed to do? I have no idea what is old and what is new install method, as this is the first time ever I try to install Gentoo, so everyting is new for me, just tell me what I should do that should just work most probably. i've been following (svn) the quickstart script, meant to do a console install. Don't have a link but if anyone is interested will get it (IIRC it's in graphical-installed dev personal place). Would be interested on any experience about it's usability. HTH. Rumen Does Gentoo have a normal install method, that should work usually, and if any, what is it? I just did what the booted image told me to, hoping it was something I was supposed to do. This distro is new for me, I installed Debian maybe a hundred times, so thats what I am acustomed to. -- Miernik http://miernik.name/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Well, I think that fixing that abortion of an installation CD is of paramount concern. Like it or not, the first thing prospective new users see, is the installation process. In my opinion, it is of quintessential importance for Gentoo to have a normal, functional, easy installation CD. I disagree. When I started using Gentoo it was mostly seen as a better LFS than LFS. You start with a bare minimum boot CD and go from stage1. That was, and still is, the thing that attracted me to Gentoo. IMO the graphical install thingie should be ditched. Its basically masking Gentoo to look like something it's not (and failing miserably). There are other distros that do that in do it successfully. Gentoo has always been primarily a source-based distribution where you have to roll your sleeves and get dirty. Let's keep it that way. I've been using Gentoo since 2004. I know graduate students in Computer Science that use Ubuntu in lieu of Gentoo, solely based on the nightmare that installing Gentoo via a normal graphical install CD is Ubuntu is great for that. Ubuntu is great for people who want things to just work Gentoo is just the opposite. It's for people who like to fiddle, tweak, and get under the hood. For people who want just works I would recommend Ubuntu over Gentoo. What I don't recommend is turning Gentoo *into* Ubuntu. Ubuntu already has enough competition in that area as it is ;-) If you do not like my opinion, you should look at what Daniel Robbins had to say, as I ran across a posting of his today, about this very issue. An awesome collection of techies does not gravitate users to join the ranks of distro users. A (easy) graphical installation method is a requirement. Gentoo get's tons of bad reviews, based on the installation process. This is a point where I disagree with Robbins, but I've disagreed with him before (such as his wanting to turn Gentoo into a for-profit instead of a community distro). The bad reviews are from those who are buying a kit-car and expecting it to work like a minivan. Yes I've installed dozens of gentoo system, and the resulting product is wonderful, much akin to a girl with a great personality. However, she ain't every going to get 'laid' (become popular) because the (installation) process is *UGLY*. Again, Gentoo ain't the girl you're gonna see on the cover of Cosmo. Gentoo is the girl whose not necessarily easy on the eyes but boy can she cook*! Let us first be honest about this, so it can be fixed. At that point ( a normal installation CD), Gentoo can take it's rightful place as a major distro I chose Gentoo to get away from the major distros. There is plenty of competition in that market. Let Gentoo be Gentoo and not Yet Another Ubuntu [TM]. * Substitute cook with whatever you please ;-) -- Albert W. Hopkins -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daylight savings time
Shawn Haggett podge at podgeweb.com writes: In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local TIMEZONE=America/New_York CLOCK_SYSTOHC=yes Is the /etc/localtime file correct? i.e.: $ cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York /etc/localtime -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3519 Nov 5 17:39 localtime -rw-r--r-- 3 root root 3519 Nov 5 17:39 /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York Yes. Any other ideas? Maybe I need to 'reemerge' something? James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Daniel Iliev daniel.iliev at gmail.com writes: I´m waiting for too. Why? In other words I don't need too many releases, but prefer the devs spend their time for Gentoo on killing :) bugs and filling portage with new software instead of taking snapshots and building CD/DVD images. Well, I think that fixing that abortion of an installation CD is of paramount concern. Like it or not, the first thing prospective new users see, is the installation process. In my opinion, it is of quintessential importance for Gentoo to have a normal, functional, easy installation CD. I've been using Gentoo since 2004. I know graduate students in Computer Science that use Ubuntu in lieu of Gentoo, solely based on the nightmare that installing Gentoo via a normal graphical install CD is If you do not like my opinion, you should look at what Daniel Robbins had to say, as I ran across a posting of his today, about this very issue. An awesome collection of techies does not gravitate users to join the ranks of distro users. A (easy) graphical installation method is a requirement. Gentoo get's tons of bad reviews, based on the installation process. Yes I've installed dozens of gentoo system, and the resulting product is wonderful, much akin to a girl with a great personality. However, she ain't every going to get 'laid' (become popular) because the (installation) process is *UGLY*. Let us first be honest about this, so it can be fixed. At that point ( a normal installation CD), Gentoo can take it's rightful place as a major distro ymmv, James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Daylight savings time
Hello, In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local TIMEZONE=America/New_York CLOCK_SYSTOHC=yes it's a dual boot (XP gentoo) workstation. I had to set the time manually to adjust for the 1 hour shift. Shouldn't this be automatic? What did I miss? James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting system stats
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:23:51 +0200 Aleksey V. Kunitskiy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 November 2007, James wrote: All, I'm writing a piece of code that requires I gather the following statistics every second: - CPU Usage (as a percentage) - NIC I/O - Hard Drive I/O I later have to correlate these stats as a function of time. I'm not really sure where I should be looking to gather these statistics. I know about /proc/stat, but that's only CPU related (and I don't think /proc/sys will give me a CPU usage percentage anyways). I'm not sure if there exist other proc files that will give me the values for NIC and hard drive I/O (such as number of transactions per second). Thoughts? First thought that comes in my mind is to have a look at source code of such programms as: - gkrellm - top/htop - iptraf I think you can find there all information you need Additionally (some small but great progs): sys-process/procps, app-admin/procinfo, app-admin/sysstat, net-analyzer/iftop -- Best regards, Daniel -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] about the 2007.1
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:10:16 +0200 Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words I don't need too many releases, but prefer the devs spend their time for Gentoo on killing :) bugs and filling portage with new software instead of taking snapshots and building CD/DVD images. I agree with this, but I also wonder why there's so much difficulty making live CDs. It seems like it wouldn't take that long to turn out a minimal install CD a few more times a year, but I confess I don't remember exactly what goes into this process. I know last year there were a few people on the forums that built their own CDs, back when the JMicron support was imperative for so many people. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:47:19 +0100 Mike Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 November 2007 18:30:22 kashani wrote: Does anyone have any suggestions, or comments, or criticisms? Anybody konw how to do a thing like that? First off don't assign separate IPs to each port on your four port card, bond them into a single interface. That will simplify your config and perform better. Yup, bonding is really cool, and trivially simple to setup. Enable CONFIG_BONDING as a module, in Network device support. Install ifenslave, then edit /etc/modules.d/bond, like this: alias bond1 bonding options bond1 mode=1 miimon=100 max_bonds=5 You probably want mode 0, I use mode 1 for redundancy only. Then change your net config to something like this: config_eth0=( null ) config_eth4=( null ) RC_NEED_bond1=net.eth0 net.eth4 slaves_bond1=eth0 eth4 config_bond1=( 192.168.1.1/24 ) Then you use bondX from then on (no net.ethX should be in any runlevel). Thanks again. I am working through this now. Does anybody 'round here use mode 6? It sounds really promising, because it balances traffic bidirectionally. I am unclear as to whether I can do this with any card or not. I also worry about messing up my Hardware Addresses like I did the last time I was playing with Bonding. I don't think I used mode 0 (mode 5 maybe, or 2) but this resulted in 2 cards having the same hardware address, which I couldn't get to change back. Therefore the interfaces were always named improperly (eth0_rename) and the whole thing was a big ugly mess. I have to make sure I don't do this again, because the 4-port adapter is being 'borrowed' (indefinitely) and I don't want to break it. Does anybody know what I can do to avoid this from happening again? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting system stats
On Wed, 2007-11-07 at 13:38 -0500, James wrote: All, I'm writing a piece of code that requires I gather the following statistics every second: - CPU Usage (as a percentage) this is an interesting one. I had to do this recently, and the only place I could get the data from is /proc/stat Except that the data is not in % and reading the top source code made me go crosseyed! They make a simple task so complicated! I ended up with this ugly ... 6 liner! ifsProcStat.open (/proc/stat); ... // in a loop: ifsProcStat.seekg (0, std::ios::beg); ifsProcStat strIgnore iUser iNice iSys iIdle iIoWait iIrq iSoftIrq; iTotal = iUser + iNice + iSys + iIdle + iIoWait + iIrq + iSoftIrq; fCpuIdleAct = ((float)(iIdle - iOldIdle) / (iTotal - iOldTotal)) * 100.0F; iOldIdle = iIdle; iOldTotal = iTotal; // end of loop Of course, I was looking at idle time as a % - you would be interested in User time perhaps. - NIC I/O - Hard Drive I/O I'll leave these up to you! And of course this could be complete wrong! I would welcome any comments on my bad coding :) HTH, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Most people can do without the essentials, but not without the luxuries. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daylight savings time
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:16:46 + (UTC) James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local TIMEZONE=America/New_York CLOCK_SYSTOHC=yes it's a dual boot (XP gentoo) workstation. I had to set the time manually to adjust for the 1 hour shift. Shouldn't this be automatic? James All my gentoos switched over just fine. What did I miss? I don't know, but I'm surprised to hear about this. I thought we all figured it out last spring. The gentoo clock stuff should have been updated long ago. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
Dan Farrell wrote: Thanks for your responses, all. On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:30:22 -0800 kashani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off don't assign separate IPs to each port on your four port card, bond them into a single interface. That will simplify your config and perform better. Perhaps I will; that's not a bad idea. However, I will still have another interface that is to handle non-NFS traffic. (The reason I split it this way, by the way, is that NFS is the only network service that might potentially be limited by bandwith. Second, what sort of routing are you doing? If all the clients are on the same subnet as the four port card you should not need routing. Additionally if they are on the same subnet you should not be limited by the speed of your gateway which may or may not be able to route at 4 Gb/s whereas your switch may actually have that sort of performaance. Are the clients on a separate subnet and if so can you put them on the same subnet? No, they're all on the same subnet. Each of the 5 interfaces adds a route to that subnet (no gateway, as you said, it's the same broadcast domain) but the routes all have different metrics. The first such route chosen is the one that gets all the traffic. The NFS server is used primarily for Read access, so this routing problem does a pretty good job mitigating any benefit of having so many interfaces. Oh, by the way, this is 100-T, not Gigabit. Do I sound rich to you : ) ? Buying a single GigE card would appear to be simpler and cheaper unless you don't have a GigE switch. :-) So, let's say I bond the 4 together. Now I have 2 interfaces, a bond and eth0. I still need to route through one or the other, so I still have the problem. I am reading about policy routing, which should be able to solve the problem by allowing routing based on the source rather than the destination. I will keep the lists informed... You should not need to do any routing and I'd be surprised if Linux is actually doing any routing in this case. However depending on how you are testing you might see some issues. Let's assume you've got this network. server eth0 10.11.12.21/24 server eth1 10.11.12.22/24 client1 eth0 10.11.12.101/24 client2 eth0 10.11.12.102/24 The server will have all sorts of nonsense about 10.11.12.21 255.255.255.255 routes and you can ignore all that. Additionally when you initiate a connection from your server it will always originate from eth0 because 0 comes before 1 IIRC. Just one of those things. However when you initiate a connection from a client to eth1 the server should respond out the same interface. I'd play around with tcpdump on a client and see if this is happening like it should be. You might also try forcing portmap to bind to one IP in /etc/conf.d/portmap. If for some reason I'm completely off base and Linux is defaulting out eth0 for connections coming into eth1 you can always do the lo tech solution. Assuming the above network we then assign a separate subnet to eth1 and an alias to each client. server eth0 10.11.12.21/24 server eth1 10.11.88.21/24 client1 eth0 10.11.12.101/24 client1 eth0:0 10.11.88.101/24 client2 eth0 10.11.12.102/24 client2 eth0:0 10.11.88.102/24 The machines connect on 10.11.88.0/24 and you avoid any interface confusion. kashani -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 00:32 +, James wrote: Yes I've installed dozens of gentoo system, and the resulting product is wonderful, much akin to a girl with a great personality. However, she ain't every going to get 'laid' (become popular) because the (installation) process is *UGLY*. to use your analogy, I'd rather gentoo didn't get laid (or ravaged as the case may be) by the masses, but rather kept her nice personality, even if she is a bit ugly sometimes :) AU$0.02 -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au One of the signs of Napoleon's greatness is the fact that he once had a publisher shot. -- Siegfried Unseld -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: The setup program seems to have failed.
Hi, On (08/11/07 07:02) Miernik wrote: Rumen Yotov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The graphical installer is known to fail sometimes (not always :-) Many people prefer the (old) install method - using a terminal. I was not using a graphical installer, I went to a terminal (text console), and typed installer, is that what I am supposed to do? I have no idea what is old and what is new install method, as this is the first time ever I try to install Gentoo, so everyting is new for me, just tell me what I should do that should just work most probably. The 'old' install method meant to use just no-X terminal from a LiveCD. Then you just follow the handbook (installation) and you're done. Could be done for half an hour/45 min/,but an hour or two will suffice for most users. Usually the kernel configcompilation takes most of the time. Check the install docs for 2005.X or the quickinstall guide IIRC. i've been following (svn) the quickstart script, meant to do a console install. Don't have a link but if anyone is interested will get it (IIRC it's in graphical-installed dev personal place). Would be interested on any experience about it's usability. HTH. Rumen Does Gentoo have a normal install method, that should work usually, and if any, what is it? I just did what the booted image told me to, hoping it was something I was supposed to do. This distro is new for me, I installed Debian maybe a hundred times, so thats what I am acustomed to. From 2006.0 IIRC a 'new' install method came to life (a graphical one). Seems you using it, the current documentation mostly covers the new install method - not very sure here. You could also use the Gnome from the LiveCD, open a root terminal and do the install from it (writing commands). Do ask if you have any questions/problems. -- Miernik http://miernik.name/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list HTH. Rumen -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daylight savings time
071108 James wrote: In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local That sb utc. TIMEZONE=America/New_York CLOCK_SYSTOHC=yes it's a dual boot (XP gentoo) workstation. However, M$ Windows may insist on changing the time on its own, so you may find it happens twice. I had to set the time manually to adjust for the 1 hour shift. Shouldn't this be automatic? What did I miss? HTH -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
