Re: [gentoo-user] openrc 0.9.4 : opaque warnings

[Mick]

On Tuesday 29 Nov 2011 11:41:57 Philip Webb wrote:

> A further question: since I had previously updated  /etc/conf.d/net ,
> I was given a router by my ISP & therefore started to use DHCP.
> The new  net.example  file suggests I might make further changes in 'net'
> & simplify my configuration files.  What I have now in 'net' is :
> 
> # For a static configuration use eg :
> # PP 29 : drop Bash syntax to avoid start-up warning
> #config_eth0=( "192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255"
> ) config_eth0="192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255"
> # You need to create the PPP net script yourself:
> # do it via 'cd /etc/init.d ; ln -s net.lo net.ppp0'
> # We have to instruct ppp0 to actually use ppp
> config_ppp0=( "ppp" )

First of all you should not use brackets in the new format.

Second, why do you need PPP, unless this is a router that also authenticates 
into your ISP's adsl radius server?


> # Each PPP interface requires an interface to use as a "Link"
> link_ppp0="eth0"  # PPPoE requires an ethernet interface

Ditto.


> # Specify what pppd plugins you want to use: available are:
> # pppoe, pppoa, capi, dhcpc, minconn, radius, radattr, radrealms, winbind
> plugins_ppp0=( "pppoe" )

No brackets in the new file format as previous message advised and as I said 
above, think again if you need PPP authentication performed by your Gentoo box 
(because your new router does this now).

> # PPP requires at least a username.
> # It will use the password specified in /etc/ppp/*-secrets
> username_ppp0='@***'
> #pppd_ppp0=( "debug" "updetach" "noauth" "defaultroute" "usepeerdns"
> "persist" ) pppd_ppp0=( "updetach" "defaultroute" )

Don't need these at all.

HTH.

-- 
Regards,
Mick


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Re: [gentoo-user] speakup won't compile with kernel 3.1.1 and 2.6.36 isn't available.

[covici]

Its now in the kernel itself, under drivers -> staging.

Shane Davidson  wrote:

> Hello all;
> 
> I sent this same message to Gentoo-accessibility, but thought why not, let's
> get even more input and see if we can make this roll.
> 
> I've been a Gentoo user for awhile, and installed  a knew VM, using the
> latest available kernel, 3.1.1.
> 
> When speakup attempts to install I get
> 
> * ERROR: app-accessibility/speakup-3.1.6_p201011120508 failed (setup phase):
> 
> Great, ok, so I further look into it, looks like it wants kernel 2.6.36.
> 
> This is no longer available, attempt to compile anything less then 2.6.36
> I'm told it requires 2.6.36 kernel.
> 
> Also, speakup hasn't been updated since around this time last year.
> 
> So, thoughts, ideas, suggestions for getting this fixed?
> 
> Thanks for any assistance.
> 
> Shane
> 
> 
> 
> Alternatives:
> 
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 29 November 2011 23:28:48 Walter Dnes wrote:

> There aren't enough developers on the planet to test every possible
> combination of testing ebuild, and non-recommended rc.conf option.

Not only that, but once random timing is introduced, as in any system with a 
hardware clock interrupt, it becomes impossible in principle to cover all 
cases, so testing is always imperfect. That was the death-knell of 
mathematical proof of correctness in the 80s; it only ever applied to a 
small subset of real computer systems.

-- 
Rgds
Peter   Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop - Switch video/audio output to HDMI?

[Frank Steinmetzger]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 03:17:53PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Hi,
>I'm finally joining the 21st century having purchased my first new
> TV in more than 13 years. My laptop runs KDE with Nvidia drivers. I'm
> wondering what the process is to switch the audio & video output of my
> laptop the its HDMI port? I'd like to try using xine to play DVDs. I
> assume in Linux I'm going to have to mess with both Alsa and X which
> in the end sounds like a disaster waiting to happen but I figure I
> might as well see if it's actually easier than I think.
> […]
>Anyway, just looking for someone to point me in the right direction.

I am administrating the laptop of a friend of mine. She’s running KDE 4.4 on
Debian Squeeze with Intel graphics and an external monitor/TV. KDE can switch
audio to an external monitor by itself using System settings → Hardware →
Multimedia → Phonon. There, in the Device Priority tab, you’ll have to change
the order of items (i.e. put HDMI to the top) and then all programs that use
phonon route their sound to HDMI.

I *believe* that when the monitor is not present (after all, it’s a laptop),
the sound should automatically be routed to the next device in the list. But I
think that we had some problems in that regard. But then again, she’s running
an outdated KDE.
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services.

Die schwierigste Turnübung ist, sich selbst auf den Arm zu nehmen.


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Description: PGP signature

[gentoo-user] ignore previous message re: speakup.

[Shane Davidson]

Hello all;

I got an answer re:  speakup from Gentoo-accessibility.
Thanks all.

Shane

Re: [gentoo-user] speakup won't compile with kernel 3.1.1 and 2.6.36 isn't available.

[Vishnupradeep]

You can get kernel 2.6.36 from https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tags here
you will find the tag for 2.6.34 version of kernel.


Linux Blog: http://xtreme-linux.blogspot.com/
Fedora Blog: http://xtreme-fedora.blogspot.com/
My Blog: http://sharedonweb.blogspot.com/




On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Shane Davidson  wrote:

> Hello all;
>
> I sent this same message to Gentoo-accessibility, but thought why not,
> let’s get even more input and see if we can make this roll.
>
> I’ve been a Gentoo user for awhile, and installed  a knew VM, using the
> latest available kernel, 3.1.1.
>
> When speakup attempts to install I get
>
> * ERROR: app-accessibility/speakup-3.1.6_p201011120508 failed (setup
> phase):
>
> Great, ok, so I further look into it, looks like it wants kernel 2.6.36.**
> **
>
> This is no longer available, attempt to compile anything less then 2.6.36
> I’m told it requires 2.6.36 kernel.
>
> Also, speakup hasn’t been updated since around this time last year.
>
> So, thoughts, ideas, suggestions for getting this fixed?
>
> Thanks for any assistance.
>
> Shane
>

[gentoo-user] speakup won't compile with kernel 3.1.1 and 2.6.36 isn't available.

[Shane Davidson]

Hello all;

I sent this same message to Gentoo-accessibility, but thought why not, let's
get even more input and see if we can make this roll.

I've been a Gentoo user for awhile, and installed  a knew VM, using the
latest available kernel, 3.1.1.

When speakup attempts to install I get

* ERROR: app-accessibility/speakup-3.1.6_p201011120508 failed (setup phase):

Great, ok, so I further look into it, looks like it wants kernel 2.6.36.

This is no longer available, attempt to compile anything less then 2.6.36
I'm told it requires 2.6.36 kernel.

Also, speakup hasn't been updated since around this time last year.

So, thoughts, ideas, suggestions for getting this fixed?

Thanks for any assistance.

Shane

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: no keyboard activity in gnome

[covici]

walt  wrote:

> On 11/29/2011 10:40 AM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Hi.  I am having a problem where when I start gdm, I get no keyboard
> > activity.  I emerged @x11-module-rebuild which emerges the keyboard,
> > mouse, evdev and diksplay drivers.  I am using the latest version of
> > gnome2 -- I got it before the  big change.
> >
> > I have attached Xorg.0.log for further information.
> 
> Your Xorg log looks good, X is recognizing and configuring the keyboard
> as it should.  Do you have the same problem if you use startx instead
> of gdm?

I can't get startx to work at all, here is what I get when I try it.
xauth:  file /home/covici/.serverauth.21638 does not exist


X.Org X Server 1.11.2
Release Date: 2011-11-04
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.32-gentoo-r2 x86_64 Gentoo
Current Operating System: Linux ccs.covici.com 2.6.32-gentoo-r2 #3 SMP
Sat Apr 9 23:17:27 EDT 2011 x86_64
Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=2.6.32-gentoo ro root=100 init=/linuxrc
ramdisk=8192 real_root=/dev/mapper/linux--files-64--root udev
video=uvesafb:1280x1024 speakup.synth=spkout vmalloc=256M dolvm
Build Date: 27 November 2011  05:14:42PM

Current version of pixman: 0.24.0
Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org
to make sure that you have the latest version.
Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
(++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
(WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
(==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Nov 29 21:00:16 2011
(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
(==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
(EE) Failed to load module "dri" (module does not exist, 0)
(EE) Failed to load module "dri2" (module does not exist, 0)
(EE) NVIDIA: Failed to load module "dri2" (module does not exist, 0)
[dix] Could not init font path element unix/:7100, removing from list!
which: no keychain in

(/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.5.3:/usr/local/freeswitch/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/home/covici/bin)
/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc: line 59: twm: command not found
/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc: line 63: exec: xterm: not found
xinit: connection to X server lost

waiting for X server to shut down Server terminated successfully
(0). Closing log file.

I am not sure why this is happening.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

[gentoo-user] binutils failed to compile

[meino . cramer]

Hi,

after update binutil receives a patch from gentoo. The following
compilations failes:


/bin/sh ./libtool --tag=CC   --mode=link x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -W -Wall 
-Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wshadow -march=native -O2 -pipe  
-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -o size size.o bucomm.o version.o filemode.o 
../bfd/libbfd.la ../libiberty/libiberty.a  yes 
libtool: link: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -W -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes 
-Wmissing-prototypes -Wshadow -march=native -O2 -pipe -Wl,-O1 -o .libs/size 
size.o bucomm.o version.o filemode.o yes  -Wl,--as-needed 
../bfd/.libs/libbfd.so 
-L/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/binutils-2.21.1-r1/work/build/bfd/../libiberty/pic 
-liberty -ldl ../libiberty/libiberty.a -Wl,-rpath 
-Wl,/usr/lib64/binutils/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/2.21.1
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: yes: No such file or directory
make[4]: *** [size] Error 1
make[4]: Leaving directory 
`/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/binutils-2.21.1-r1/work/build/binutils'
make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory 
`/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/binutils-2.21.1-r1/work/build/binutils'
make[2]: *** [all] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory 
`/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/binutils-2.21.1-r1/work/build/binutils'
make[1]: *** [all-binutils] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory 
`/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/binutils-2.21.1-r1/work/build'
make: *** [all] Error 2
emake failed


It seems, that "yes" is missed.
Whatever this means... 

Best regards,
mcc

[gentoo-user] Re: no keyboard activity in gnome

[walt]

On 11/29/2011 10:40 AM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:

Hi.  I am having a problem where when I start gdm, I get no keyboard
activity.  I emerged @x11-module-rebuild which emerges the keyboard,
mouse, evdev and diksplay drivers.  I am using the latest version of
gnome2 -- I got it before the  big change.

I have attached Xorg.0.log for further information.


Your Xorg log looks good, X is recognizing and configuring the keyboard
as it should.  Do you have the same problem if you use startx instead
of gdm?

[gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-user] «-»: [gentoo-user] Gnupg 2 and BZIP2 preference

[Pandu Poluan]

On Nov 30, 2011 7:37 AM, "Samuraiii"  wrote:
>
> No luck, grep didn't returned any results.
> S.
>

Hmm... try remerging gpg?

Rgds,

[gentoo-user] «-»: [gentoo-user] Gnupg 2 and BZIP2 preference

[Samuraiii]

  
  

  No luck, grep didn't returned any results. 
  S.
  



On 2011-11-30 01:21, Pandu Poluan wrote:

  
On Nov 30, 2011 6:21 AM, "Samuraiii" 
wrote:
>
> No I know that Linux is casesensitve and in my USE is
"bzip2" (as written here - I just used what is shown in gpg
complaint) - so this is not ob viously the problem.
> (my whole USE variable content is in provided bugreport...)
>
> And the preference of key is impossible to set wrongly - I
did this on in time when I was on Ubuntu.)
>
> I just cant understand why is bzip2 use ignored by Gnupg -
its in make.conf, by emerge --info is accepted for Gnupg but gpg
--version is not showing this compress prefernce.
>
> S.
>
  I'm also grasping at straws... but try doing grep -R "-bzip2"
/etc
  You might have inadvertently disabled bzip2 somewhere... 
  Rgds, 
  


-- 
  
Samuraiii
e-mail: samura...@volny.cz
GnuPG key ID: 0x80C752EA
(obtainable on http://pgp.mit.edu)
  Full copy
of public timestamp block
signatures id- (from ) is included in header of html.
  

  

[gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-user] «-»: [gentoo-user] Gnupg 2 and BZIP2 preference

[Pandu Poluan]

On Nov 30, 2011 6:21 AM, "Samuraiii"  wrote:
>
> No I know that Linux is casesensitve and in my USE is "bzip2" (as written
here - I just used what is shown in gpg complaint) - so this is not ob
viously the problem.
> (my whole USE variable content is in provided bugreport...)
>
> And the preference of key is impossible to set wrongly - I did this on in
time when I was on Ubuntu.)
>
> I just cant understand why is bzip2 use ignored by Gnupg - its in
make.conf, by emerge --info is accepted for Gnupg but gpg --version is not
showing this compress prefernce.
>
> S.
>

I'm also grasping at straws... but try doing grep -R "-bzip2" /etc

You might have inadvertently disabled bzip2 somewhere...

Rgds,

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Tcl in your system...

[Albert W. Hopkins]

On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 23:09 +0100, Jörg Schaible wrote:
> > At a previous job we had licensed some software that was written in
> > TCL.. and even had an API for the system.  I can't recall the name
> of
> > the software at the moment, but it was very specialized so not
> cheap.
> > This was during the late 90s/early 2000s.
> > 
> > I have no idea if the company is still around of if they still sell
> the
> > software or if it's still tcl-based (my memory fails me).
> 
> Vignette? Was at that time a major player in CMS market ;-)
> Acquired by OpenText in 2009. 

No, it was healthcare...

Actually I Googled it.  It was (is?) called "Cloverleaf".  Dunno if it's
still being sold but here's a refrence:

http://www.networkcomputing.com/unixworld/review/006.html

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Walter Dnes]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 08:28:13PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote

> I do that a lot at work too. Some days I can tell you I found and
> dealt with more than one issue or bug but can't recall afterwards what
> it was.
> 
> I'm still undecided if this is a good thing, a bad thing, or neither

  They say that memory is the second thing to go... I forget what the
first is.

-- 
Walter Dnes 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Walter Dnes]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 06:15:14PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote
> On 11/28/2011 02:29 PM, Albert W. Hopkins wrote:
>
> > Sorry to add more to the whining but...
> >
> > Yes, you are in the testing tree.  Yes, as a member of testing, *you*
> > expect things will occasionally break, and it is *your* job to test
> > things, break them, and report bugs.
> 
> Generally true, but not when something is obviously broken.  That means 
> not even its upstream dev bothered to test it.

  There aren't enough developers on the planet to test every possible
combination of testing ebuild, and non-recommended rc.conf option.
 
> ~arch is for "we think this works, but please give it a go in case there 
> are problems".  It's *not* for "we have no idea if this works because we 
> didn't even try it once".

waltdnes@d531 ~ $ head /etc/rc.conf
# Global OpenRC configuration settings

# Set to "YES" if you want the rc system to try and start services
# in parallel for a slight speed improvement. When running in parallel we
# prefix the service output with its name as the output will get
# jumbled up.
# WARNING: whilst we have improved parallel, it can still potentially lock
# the boot process. Don't file bugs about this unless you can supply
# patches that fix it without breaking other things!
#rc_parallel="NO"

  The developers tried it, and it worked on *THEIR SYSTEMS*.  It appears
that even the developers don't dare run rc_parallel on their machines...
nuff said.

-- 
Walter Dnes 

Re: [gentoo-user] What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Walter Dnes]

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 08:28:42PM +0100, Andrea Conti wrote

> It had a "little" problem in resolving the dependencies of a newly
> introduced boot service that created a cycle and caused the boot process
> to hang (almost) forever with rc_parallel=YES.
> 
> With 100% repeatability, mind you, which does raise same questions on
> the amount of testing done before release. Yes, it's ~arch and
> rc_parallel is explicitly marked "experimental", but it's not expected
> to be completely and consistently broken, either.
> 
> If that sounds like I'm ranting, it's because I just spent about an hour
> getting three machines affected by this problem back into working state.

waltdnes@d531 ~ $ head /etc/rc.conf
# Global OpenRC configuration settings

# Set to "YES" if you want the rc system to try and start services
# in parallel for a slight speed improvement. When running in parallel we
# prefix the service output with its name as the output will get
# jumbled up.
# WARNING: whilst we have improved parallel, it can still potentially lock
# the boot process. Don't file bugs about this unless you can supply
# patches that fix it without breaking other things!
#rc_parallel="NO"

  This alone would is enough to deter me from running it.  The potential
problems aren't worth it for a few seconds faster bootup.  It appears
that even the developers don't dare to run it on their machines... nuff
said.

-- 
Walter Dnes 

[gentoo-user] Laptop - Switch video/audio output to HDMI?

[Mark Knecht]

Hi,
   I'm finally joining the 21st century having purchased my first new
TV in more than 13 years. My laptop runs KDE with Nvidia drivers. I'm
wondering what the process is to switch the audio & video output of my
laptop the its HDMI port? I'd like to try using xine to play DVDs. I
assume in Linux I'm going to have to mess with both Alsa and X which
in the end sounds like a disaster waiting to happen but I figure I
might as well see if it's actually easier than I think.

   When running as a normal laptop the machine uses the nvidia-drivers
package and the kernel's Intel HD Audio driver. If I want to deliver
audio over HDMI do I need to switch to the Nvidia audio device? Makes
sense but creates more problems testing if it doesn't work really
easily.

   Anyway, just looking for someone to point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Mark



slinky linux # lspci

00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset
High Definition Audio (rev 06)

01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation Device 0dd1 (rev a1)
01:00.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation Device 0be9 (rev a1)

slinky linux #

[gentoo-user] «-»: [gentoo-user] Gnupg 2 and BZIP2 preference

[Samuraiii]

  
  

  No I know that Linux is casesensitve and in my USE is "bzip2" (as
  written here - I just used what is shown in gpg complaint) - so
  this is not obviously the problem.
  (my whole USE variable content is in provided bugreport...)
  
  And the preference of key is impossible to set wrongly - I did
  this on in time when I was on Ubuntu.)
  
  I just cant understand why is bzip2 use ignored by Gnupg - its in
  make.conf, by emerge --info is accepted for Gnupg but gpg
  --version is not showing this compress prefernce.
  
  S.
  



On 2011-11-30 00:04, Walter Dnes wrote:

  On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 12:03:41AM +0100, Samuraiii wrote


  
As I have set BZIP2 USE as global in make.conf I don't see why is
not working

  
Grasping a straws here... linux is case-sensitive.  Did you really
include "BZIP2" in USE, rather than "bzip2"?




-- 
  
Samuraiii
e-mail: samura...@volny.cz
GnuPG key ID: 0x80C752EA
(obtainable on http://pgp.mit.edu)
  Full copy
of public timestamp block
signatures id- (from ) is included in header of html.
  

  

Re: [gentoo-user] Google Talk and 9999 versions

[Mick]

On Tuesday 29 Nov 2011 14:26:17 Dale wrote:
> Michael Mol wrote:
> > on my partial ~amd64 system, I have googletalk-plugin installed, and
> > it serves me well. On my new box (also partial ~amd64, but far more in
> > the stable realm than unstable realm), I tried to emerge
> > googletalk-plugin, and it's masked. It's also a '' version
> > package. I vaguely recall that '' packages are special somehow.
> > How is that?
> 
> I think those are called the live builds.  Basically, they are not
> tested much and are really close to falling off the bleeding edge.  I
> rarely mess with those.  There is a google-talkplugin-2.5.6.0 that is
> not live but keyworded.  If it was me, I would at least try that version
> first.  It is likely tested a bit more, not going to change so often and
> be stable as it gets in the unstable branch of the tree.  If that fails,
> go back to the older version.  If neither works, then I would try to
>  build.  I'd also cross my fingers for good measure.

 builds is the latest potentially unstable and incomplete code that the 
devs just churned out and uploaded to cvs.  10 minutes later may be another 
revision  and so on.  Every time you rebuild you'll be downloading the latest 
attempt of their coding.

What is annoying is that you had it working just right and suddenly all the 
 builds have come off the boil and break in a bad way.  This can be 
particularly burdensome or even debilitating for a prolonged period, like I 
experienced with some wireless drivers in the past.

Of course, not all  packages are that 'unstable'.  I've been running e17 
for some time now and only every once in a while I happen to come across a bug 
or build problem.  Even so, I tend not to update  packages often, once I 
get a well behaving revision.

YMMV

-- 
Regards,
Mick


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Re: [gentoo-user] Gnupg 2 and BZIP2 preference

[Walter Dnes]

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 12:03:41AM +0100, Samuraiii wrote

> As I have set BZIP2 USE as global in make.conf I don't see why is
> not working

  Grasping a straws here... linux is case-sensitive.  Did you really
include "BZIP2" in USE, rather than "bzip2"?

-- 
Walter Dnes 

[gentoo-user] Re: Tcl in your system...

[Jörg Schaible]

Albert W. Hopkins wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 11:33 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>> Just wondering if anyone here ever use Tcl for scripting (i.e.,
>> automating repetitive procedures) or even *gasp* serious programming.
> 
> At a previous job we had licensed some software that was written in
> TCL.. and even had an API for the system.  I can't recall the name of
> the software at the moment, but it was very specialized so not cheap.
> This was during the late 90s/early 2000s.
> 
> I have no idea if the company is still around of if they still sell the
> software or if it's still tcl-based (my memory fails me).

Vignette? Was at that time a major player in CMS market ;-)
Acquired by OpenText in 2009.

- Jörg

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Mark Knecht  wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Jarry  wrote:
>> On 29-Nov-11 17:53, Michael Mol wrote:
 1) First lesson - not all hard drives make good RAID hard drives.
>>> What makes a good RAID unit, and what makes a terrible RAID unit?
>> Some hard-drives are not suitable for raid at all. There
>> are many reasons for that, one example is error-recovery.
>> Check wiki for more info:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-Limited_Error_Recovery
>>
>> In the first place, I would not recommend those "eco" and
>> "green" versions for raid at all. They have some saving
>> mechanisms which tend to activate at wrong time and cause
>> problems for raid-controllers (be it SW or HW). I'd say
>> it is worth to pay a few bucks more for enterprise-class
>> 24/7 (or special "raid-edition") drives.
>>
>> Jarry
>
> This is a good representation of what happened on my first pass with
> RAID. I bought a bunch of WD 1TB Green drives. They work fine, but
> when I put them together in even a RAID1they had very long wait times
> in 'top' and the speed was horrible.
>
> That's not to say all Green drives do this because they don't. It's
> just hard to say what will work before you buy the drives _unless_ you
> buy RAID edition drives.
>
> In Micheal's case he already has his drives so the will either work or
> they won't. That's one reason I suggested he put together a couple of
> configurations. He's looking at RAID5 & RAID10, which to me makes
> sense with 4 drives. We'll just have to wait and see how they work I
> think.

In this system, I have five Seagate Barracude ES drives.

http://personal.rosettacode.org/smart.txt

Which reminds me, I need to fix the tz settings on that box.
-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Jarry  wrote:
> On 29-Nov-11 17:53, Michael Mol wrote:
>
>>> 1) First lesson - not all hard drives make good RAID hard drives.
>>
>>
>> What makes a good RAID unit, and what makes a terrible RAID unit?
>
>
> Some hard-drives are not suitable for raid at all. There
> are many reasons for that, one example is error-recovery.
> Check wiki for more info:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-Limited_Error_Recovery
>
> In the first place, I would not recommend those "eco" and
> "green" versions for raid at all. They have some saving
> mechanisms which tend to activate at wrong time and cause
> problems for raid-controllers (be it SW or HW). I'd say
> it is worth to pay a few bucks more for enterprise-class
> 24/7 (or special "raid-edition") drives.
>
> Jarry

This is a good representation of what happened on my first pass with
RAID. I bought a bunch of WD 1TB Green drives. They work fine, but
when I put them together in even a RAID1they had very long wait times
in 'top' and the speed was horrible.

That's not to say all Green drives do this because they don't. It's
just hard to say what will work before you buy the drives _unless_ you
buy RAID edition drives.

In Micheal's case he already has his drives so the will either work or
they won't. That's one reason I suggested he put together a couple of
configurations. He's looking at RAID5 & RAID10, which to me makes
sense with 4 drives. We'll just have to wait and see how they work I
think.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Florian Philipp  wrote:
> Am 29.11.2011 19:39, schrieb Michael Mol:
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Florian Philipp  
>> wrote:
>>> Am 29.11.2011 14:44, schrieb Michael Mol:
 On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:07 AM, Florian Philipp  
 wrote:
> Am 29.11.2011 05:10, schrieb Michael Mol:
>> I've got four 750GB drives in addition to the installed system drive.
>>
>> I'd like to aggregate them and split them into a few volumes. My first
>> inclination would be to raid them and drop lvm on top.  I know lvm well
>> enough, but I don't remember md that well.
>>
>> Since I don't recall md well, and this isn't urgent, I figure I can look
>> at the options.
>>
> [...]
> What kind of RAID level do you want to use, 10 or 5? You
> can also split it: Use a smaller RAID 10 for performance-critical
> partitions like /usr and the more space-efficient RAID 5 for bulk like
> videos. You can handle this with one LVM volume group consisting of two
> physical volumes. Then you can decide on a per-logical-volume basis
> where it should allocate space and also migrate LVs between the two PVs.

 Since I've got four disks for the pool, I was thinking raid10 with lvm
 on top, and a single lvm pv above that.

>>>
>>> Yeah, that would also be my recommendation. But if storage efficiency is
>>> more relevant, RAID-5 with 4 disks brings you 750GB more usable storage.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It looks like I'll want to try two different configurations. RAID5 and
>> RAID10. Not for different storage requirements, but I want to see
>> exactly what the performance drop is.
>>
>> I wish lvm striping supported data redundancy. But, then, I wish btrfs
>> was ready...
>>
>
> Just out of curiosity: What happens if you do `lvcreate --mirrors 1
> --stripes 2 ...`? Does it create something similar to a RAID-10 or does
> it simply fail?

Hm. I don't know. Honestly, I didn't know about that functionality.
Perhaps it's time I catch up on the docs again.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Florian Philipp]

Am 29.11.2011 19:39, schrieb Michael Mol:
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Florian Philipp  
> wrote:
>> Am 29.11.2011 14:44, schrieb Michael Mol:
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:07 AM, Florian Philipp  
>>> wrote:
 Am 29.11.2011 05:10, schrieb Michael Mol:
> I've got four 750GB drives in addition to the installed system drive.
>
> I'd like to aggregate them and split them into a few volumes. My first
> inclination would be to raid them and drop lvm on top.  I know lvm well
> enough, but I don't remember md that well.
>
> Since I don't recall md well, and this isn't urgent, I figure I can look
> at the options.
>
[...]
 What kind of RAID level do you want to use, 10 or 5? You
 can also split it: Use a smaller RAID 10 for performance-critical
 partitions like /usr and the more space-efficient RAID 5 for bulk like
 videos. You can handle this with one LVM volume group consisting of two
 physical volumes. Then you can decide on a per-logical-volume basis
 where it should allocate space and also migrate LVs between the two PVs.
>>>
>>> Since I've got four disks for the pool, I was thinking raid10 with lvm
>>> on top, and a single lvm pv above that.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, that would also be my recommendation. But if storage efficiency is
>> more relevant, RAID-5 with 4 disks brings you 750GB more usable storage.
>>
>>
> 
> It looks like I'll want to try two different configurations. RAID5 and
> RAID10. Not for different storage requirements, but I want to see
> exactly what the performance drop is.
> 
> I wish lvm striping supported data redundancy. But, then, I wish btrfs
> was ready...
> 

Just out of curiosity: What happens if you do `lvcreate --mirrors 1
--stripes 2 ...`? Does it create something similar to a RAID-10 or does
it simply fail?

Regards,
Florian Philipp



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Jarry]

On 29-Nov-11 17:53, Michael Mol wrote:


1) First lesson - not all hard drives make good RAID hard drives.


What makes a good RAID unit, and what makes a terrible RAID unit?


Some hard-drives are not suitable for raid at all. There
are many reasons for that, one example is error-recovery.
Check wiki for more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-Limited_Error_Recovery

In the first place, I would not recommend those "eco" and
"green" versions for raid at all. They have some saving
mechanisms which tend to activate at wrong time and cause
problems for raid-controllers (be it SW or HW). I'd say
it is worth to pay a few bucks more for enterprise-class
24/7 (or special "raid-edition") drives.

Jarry
--
___
This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists!
Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -j, make -j and make -l

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 29.11.2011 16:39, schrieb Neil Bothwick:

> The trouble with --load-average in emerge is that it is only
> checked as each ebuild is about to start, so you get the "load
> explosion" mentioned previously when many ebuilds start and once
> and then get into their compile phases. I'm using --jobs, with no
> value, in EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS and the -l10 for make seems to take
> care of the load very nicely (sorry about the pun there).

ok with me ;-)

I now use:

EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs"
MAKEOPTS="-j18 -l10"

and that is rather fast, yes  thanks ...

I start to "feel" the potential of that new CPU, yes.

Stefan

[gentoo-user] no keyboard activity in gnome

[covici]

Hi.  I am having a problem where when I start gdm, I get no keyboard
activity.  I emerged @x11-module-rebuild which emerges the keyboard,
mouse, evdev and diksplay drivers.  I am using the latest version of
gnome2 -- I got it before the  big change.

I have attached Xorg.0.log for further information.

Any assistance would be appreciated.
[124521.021] 
X.Org X Server 1.11.2
Release Date: 2011-11-04
[124521.021] X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
[124521.021] Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.32-gentoo-r2 x86_64 Gentoo
[124521.021] Current Operating System: Linux ccs.covici.com 2.6.32-gentoo-r2 #3 
SMP Sat Apr 9 23:17:27 EDT 2011 x86_64
[124521.021] Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=2.6.32-gentoo ro root=100 
init=/linuxrc ramdisk=8192 real_root=/dev/mapper/linux--files-64--root udev 
video=uvesafb:1280x1024 speakup.synth=spkout vmalloc=256M dolvm
[124521.021] Build Date: 27 November 2011  05:14:42PM
[124521.021]  
[124521.021] Current version of pixman: 0.24.0
[124521.021]Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org
to make sure that you have the latest version.
[124521.021] Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
(++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
(WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
[124521.021] (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Nov 29 11:00:51 
2011
[124521.042] (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
[124521.043] (==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
[124521.079] (==) ServerLayout "Default Layout"
[124521.079] (**) |-->Screen "Default Screen" (0)
[124521.079] (**) |   |-->Monitor "Generic Monitor"
[124521.097] (**) |   |-->Device "NVIDIA Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5500]"
[124521.097] (**) |-->Input Device "Generic Keyboard"
[124521.097] (**) |-->Input Device "Configured Mouse"
[124521.097] (==) Automatically adding devices
[124521.097] (==) Automatically enabling devices
[124521.097] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc" does not exist.
[124521.097]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/CID" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/misc/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/TTF/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/OTF/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/" does not exist.
[124521.111]Entry deleted from font path.
[124521.111] (**) FontPath set to:
unix/:7100
[124521.111] (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/lib64/xorg/modules"
[124521.111] (**) Extension "Composite" is disabled
[124521.111] (**) Extension "RENDER" is enabled
[124521.111] (WW) Hotplugging is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or 
'vmmouse' will be disabled.
[124521.111] (WW) Disabling Generic Keyboard
[124521.111] (WW) Disabling Configured Mouse
[124521.111] (II) Loader magic: 0x7ceae0
[124521.111] (II) Module ABI versions:
[124521.111]X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.4
[124521.111]X.Org Video Driver: 11.0
[124521.111]X.Org XInput driver :

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Florian Philipp  wrote:
> Am 29.11.2011 14:44, schrieb Michael Mol:
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:07 AM, Florian Philipp  
>> wrote:
>>> Am 29.11.2011 05:10, schrieb Michael Mol:
 I've got four 750GB drives in addition to the installed system drive.

 I'd like to aggregate them and split them into a few volumes. My first
 inclination would be to raid them and drop lvm on top.  I know lvm well
 enough, but I don't remember md that well.

 Since I don't recall md well, and this isn't urgent, I figure I can look
 at the options.

 The obvious ones appear tobe mdraid, dmraid and btrfs. I'm not sure I'm
 interested in btrfs until it's got a fsck that will repair errors, but
 I'm looking forward to it once it's ready.

 Any options I missed? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

 ZZ

>>>
>>> Sounds good so far. Of course, you only need mdraid OR dmraid (md
>>> recommended).
>>
>> dmraid looks rather new on the block. Or, at least, I've been more
>> aware of md than dm over the years. What's its purpose, as compared to
>> dmraid? Why is mdraid recommended over it?
>>
>
> dmraid being new? Not really. Anyway: Under the hood, md and dm use the
> exactly same code in the kernel. They just provide different interfaces.
> mdraid is a linux-specific software RAID implemented on top of ordinary
> single-disk disk controllers. It works like a charm and any Linux system
> with any disk controller can work with it (if you ever change your
> hardware).
>
> dmraid provides a "fake-RAID": A software RAID with support of (or
> rather, under control of) a cheap on-board RAID controller.
> Performance-wise, it usually doesn't provide any kind of advantage
> because the kernel driver still has to do all the heavy lifting
> (therefore it uses the same code base as mdraid). Its most important
> disadvantage is that it binds you to the vendor of the chipset who
> determines the on-disk layout. Apparently, this gets better in the last
> few years because of some pretty major consolidations on the chipset
> market. It might be helpful if you consider dual-booting Windows on the
> same RAID (both systems ought to use the same disk layout by means of
> their respective drivers).
>
>
>>> What kind of RAID level do you want to use, 10 or 5? You
>>> can also split it: Use a smaller RAID 10 for performance-critical
>>> partitions like /usr and the more space-efficient RAID 5 for bulk like
>>> videos. You can handle this with one LVM volume group consisting of two
>>> physical volumes. Then you can decide on a per-logical-volume basis
>>> where it should allocate space and also migrate LVs between the two PVs.
>>
>> Since I've got four disks for the pool, I was thinking raid10 with lvm
>> on top, and a single lvm pv above that.
>>
>
> Yeah, that would also be my recommendation. But if storage efficiency is
> more relevant, RAID-5 with 4 disks brings you 750GB more usable storage.
>
>

It looks like I'll want to try two different configurations. RAID5 and
RAID10. Not for different storage requirements, but I want to see
exactly what the performance drop is.

I wish lvm striping supported data redundancy. But, then, I wish btrfs
was ready...

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Albert W. Hopkins
 wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:33 +0100, Andrea Conti wrote:
>> I was just a little surprised that a system package turned out to be
>> completely broken in a scenario that I thought was quite widespread,
>> especially among the devs (as rc_parallel results in _very_ tangible
>> time savings, especially on a desktop with lots of services and
>> frequent
>> boots).
>
> I have desktops and have not seen any noticable difference in startup
> times with rc_parallel.  The config file even says "slight speed"
> improvement, then goes on with a *huge* caveat as if to say "yeah, you
> might see a little difference, but it's probably not worth it for most
> people".
>
> Basically I take that to mean, it *may* speed things up slightly for
> some people.  If it works for you, great for you.  If it breaks, you get
> to pick up the pieces.

I enabled it for a while, ran into a problem once which left my system
unbootable, chrooted from a livecd and disabled it, and never thought
about enabling it again. I usually count my yearly reboots on one
hand, so a few seconds saved to me are not worth my potential minutes
or hours spent fixing it if it goes wrong, in my opinion. For a dev
box or laptop that is booted frequently, that's a different story.
Just not my story. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Tcl in your system...

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Michael Mol  wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Pandu Poluan  wrote:
>> Just wondering if anyone here ever use Tcl for scripting (i.e., automating
>> repetitive procedures) or even *gasp* serious programming.
>
> Not me, but Tcl is one of the best-represented langauges on the site I run.
>
> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Tcl

(OT) Hey, that's a great site, I had not seen it before. it reminds me
of the old code snippets archives for C and Pascal that I used to
download from dial-up BBS back in the olden days. I always like to
learn from how other people solved a problem, even if I already solved
it myself (sometimes especially if I already solved it myself,
probably poorly...).

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Florian Philipp]

Am 29.11.2011 14:44, schrieb Michael Mol:
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:07 AM, Florian Philipp  
> wrote:
>> Am 29.11.2011 05:10, schrieb Michael Mol:
>>> I've got four 750GB drives in addition to the installed system drive.
>>>
>>> I'd like to aggregate them and split them into a few volumes. My first
>>> inclination would be to raid them and drop lvm on top.  I know lvm well
>>> enough, but I don't remember md that well.
>>>
>>> Since I don't recall md well, and this isn't urgent, I figure I can look
>>> at the options.
>>>
>>> The obvious ones appear tobe mdraid, dmraid and btrfs. I'm not sure I'm
>>> interested in btrfs until it's got a fsck that will repair errors, but
>>> I'm looking forward to it once it's ready.
>>>
>>> Any options I missed? What are the advantages and disadvantages?
>>>
>>> ZZ
>>>
>>
>> Sounds good so far. Of course, you only need mdraid OR dmraid (md
>> recommended).
> 
> dmraid looks rather new on the block. Or, at least, I've been more
> aware of md than dm over the years. What's its purpose, as compared to
> dmraid? Why is mdraid recommended over it?
>

dmraid being new? Not really. Anyway: Under the hood, md and dm use the
exactly same code in the kernel. They just provide different interfaces.
mdraid is a linux-specific software RAID implemented on top of ordinary
single-disk disk controllers. It works like a charm and any Linux system
with any disk controller can work with it (if you ever change your
hardware).

dmraid provides a "fake-RAID": A software RAID with support of (or
rather, under control of) a cheap on-board RAID controller.
Performance-wise, it usually doesn't provide any kind of advantage
because the kernel driver still has to do all the heavy lifting
(therefore it uses the same code base as mdraid). Its most important
disadvantage is that it binds you to the vendor of the chipset who
determines the on-disk layout. Apparently, this gets better in the last
few years because of some pretty major consolidations on the chipset
market. It might be helpful if you consider dual-booting Windows on the
same RAID (both systems ought to use the same disk layout by means of
their respective drivers).


>> What kind of RAID level do you want to use, 10 or 5? You
>> can also split it: Use a smaller RAID 10 for performance-critical
>> partitions like /usr and the more space-efficient RAID 5 for bulk like
>> videos. You can handle this with one LVM volume group consisting of two
>> physical volumes. Then you can decide on a per-logical-volume basis
>> where it should allocate space and also migrate LVs between the two PVs.
> 
> Since I've got four disks for the pool, I was thinking raid10 with lvm
> on top, and a single lvm pv above that.
>

Yeah, that would also be my recommendation. But if storage efficiency is
more relevant, RAID-5 with 4 disks brings you 750GB more usable storage.




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Pandu Poluan]

On Nov 30, 2011 12:51 AM, "Albert W. Hopkins" 
wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:33 +0100, Andrea Conti wrote:
> > I was just a little surprised that a system package turned out to be
> > completely broken in a scenario that I thought was quite widespread,
> > especially among the devs (as rc_parallel results in _very_ tangible
> > time savings, especially on a desktop with lots of services and
> > frequent
> > boots).
>
> I have desktops and have not seen any noticable difference in startup
> times with rc_parallel.  The config file even says "slight speed"
> improvement, then goes on with a *huge* caveat as if to say "yeah, you
> might see a little difference, but it's probably not worth it for most
> people".
>
> Basically I take that to mean, it *may* speed things up slightly for
> some people.  If it works for you, great for you.  If it breaks, you get
> to pick up the pieces.
>

On my server boxen, rc_parallel gives a very tangible benefit. The boot
time gets cut by roughly half.

Rgds,

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Albert W. Hopkins]

On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:33 +0100, Andrea Conti wrote:
> I was just a little surprised that a system package turned out to be
> completely broken in a scenario that I thought was quite widespread,
> especially among the devs (as rc_parallel results in _very_ tangible
> time savings, especially on a desktop with lots of services and
> frequent
> boots). 

I have desktops and have not seen any noticable difference in startup
times with rc_parallel.  The config file even says "slight speed"
improvement, then goes on with a *huge* caveat as if to say "yeah, you
might see a little difference, but it's probably not worth it for most
people".

Basically I take that to mean, it *may* speed things up slightly for
some people.  If it works for you, great for you.  If it breaks, you get
to pick up the pieces.

[gentoo-user] Re: dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Jack Byer]

Florian Philipp wrote:

> Another thing you can think of is whether you want encryption. I've done
> this for my laptop. The usual setup would by md->lvm->crypt. I've done
> it crypt->lvm (an LVM physical volume on top of an encrypted partition).
> This way, I only need to enter the password once. You can enforce a
> specific order between lvm, md and dmcrypt by putting stuff like this in
> /etc/rc.conf:
> rc_dmcrypt_before="lvm"
> rc_dmcrypt_after="udev"

I like to use whole disk encryption so I'll format each drive with LUKS and 
then use Dracut for an initramfs when I boot so that it takes care of 
setting up dmcrypt/lvm/md before OpenRC ever starts up.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6?

[Andrea Conti]

> Oh, you just want to test the features *you* use, understood.

Guys,

I did not want to start a flamewar. I've been running ~arch for years
and I've had my fair share of breakage, which I'm perfectly fine with
(e.g. I'm not complaining that dev-lang/php-5.4.0._rc2 currently fails
to compile with USE=+snmp). It's my choice to run unstable, and I only
do so on machines where a hosed system is a nuisance rather than an
emergency.

I write software for a living, so I know perfectly well that covering
every possible configuration in your tests is extremely difficult,
especially if you're not granted ample resources (i.e. time+$$$)
specifically for that purpose.

I was just a little surprised that a system package turned out to be
completely broken in a scenario that I thought was quite widespread,
especially among the devs (as rc_parallel results in _very_ tangible
time savings, especially on a desktop with lots of services and frequent
boots).

Things were handled well: as soon as the issue was reported, the
breakage was acknowledged and the offending version was masked and then
removed.

That's all as far as I'm concerned. No data was lost and no kittens were
killed. Let's move on.

andrea

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Mark Knecht  wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Michael Mol  wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>   Welcome to the world of what ever sort of multi-disk environment
> you choose. It's a HUGE topic and a conversation I look forward to
> having as you dig through it.
>
>   My main compute system here at home has six 500GB WD RE3 drives.
> Five are in use with one as a cold spare.  I'm using md. It's pretty
> mature and you have good access to the main developer through the
> email list. I don't know much about dm. If this is your first time
> putting RAID on a box (it was for me) then I think md is a good
> choice. On the other hand you're more system software savy than I am
> so go with what you think is best for you.

Last time I set up RAID was three or four years ago. Two volumes, on
RAID5 of three 1.5TB drives (Seagate econo drives, but they worked
well enough for me), one RIAD0 of three 1TB drives (WD Caviar Black).

The RAID0 was for some video munging scratch space. The RAID5, I
mounted as /home. Those volumes lasted a couple years, before I
rebuilt all of them as two LVM pvgs, using the same drive sets.

>
> 1) First lesson - not all hard drives make good RAID hard drives. I
> started with six 1TB WD Green drives and found they made _terrible_
> RAID units so I took them out and bought _real_ RAID drives. They were
> only half as large for the same price but they have worked perfectly
> for nearly 2 years.

What makes a good RAID unit, and what makes a terrible RAID unit?
Unless we're talking rapid failure, I'd think anything striped would
be faster than the bare drive alone.

>
> 2) Second lesson - prepare to build a few RAID configurations and
> TEST, TEST, TEST __BEFORE__ (BEFORE!!!) you make _ANY_ decision about
> what sort of RAID you really want. There are a LOT of parameter
> choices that effect performance, reliability, capacity and I think to
> some extent your ability to change RAID types later on. To name a few:
> The obvious RAID type (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,10, etc.) but also chunk size,
> metadata type, physical layout for certain RAID types, etc. I strongly
> suggest building 5-10 different configurations and testing them with
> bonnie++ to gauge speed. I didn't do enough of this before I built
> this system and I've been dealing with the effects ever since.

I'm familiar with the different RAID types and how they operate. I'm
familiar with some of the impacts of chunk size, what that can mean in
impacts on caching and sector overlap (for SSD and 2TB+ drives, at
least).

The purpose of this array (or set of arrays) is for volume aggregation
with a touch of redundancy. Speed is a tertiary concern, and if it
becomes a real issue, I'll adapt; I've got 730GB left free on the
system's primary disk which I can throw into the mix any which way.
(use it raw as I currently am, or stripe a logical volume into it...)

> 3) Third lesson - think deeply about what happens when 1 drive goes
> bad and you are in the process of fixing the system. Do you have a
> spare drive ready?

Don't plan to, but I don't plan on storing vital or
operations-dependent data in the volume without backup. These are
going to be volumes of convenience.

> Is it in the box? Hot or cold? What happens if a
> second drive in the system fails while you're rebuilding the RAID?

Drop the failed drives, rebuild with the remaining drives, copy back a backup.

> It's from the same manufacturing lot so it probably suffers from the
> same weaknesses. My decision for the most part was (for data or system
> drives) 3-drive RAID1 or 5-drive RAID6. For backup I went with 5-drive
> RAID5. It all makes me feel good, but it's too complicated.
>
> 4) Lastly - as they say all the time on the mdadm list: RAID is not a backup.

Absolutely. I've had discussions of RAID and disk storage many times
with some rather apt and experienced friends, but dmraid and btrfs are
relatively new on the block, and the gentoo-user list is a new,
mostly-untapped resource of expertise. I wanted to pick up any
additional knowledge or references I hadn't heard before. :)

>   Personally I like your idea of one big RAID with lvm on top but I
> haven't done it myself. I think it's what I would look at today if I
> was starting from scratch, but I'm not sure. It would take some study.

It's probably the simplest way forward. I notice there are some
network-syncing block devices in the kernel (acting as RAID1 over a
network) I'd like to play with, but I haven't done anything with OCFS2
(or whatever other multi-operator filesystems are in the 3.0.6 kernel)
before.

>
> Hope this helps even a little,
> Mark

Certainly does. Also, your email has a permanent URL through at least
a couple mailing list archivers, so it'll be a good thing to link to
in the future. :)


-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Tcl in your system...

[Albert W. Hopkins]

On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 11:33 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone here ever use Tcl for scripting (i.e., automating
> repetitive procedures) or even *gasp* serious programming.

At a previous job we had licensed some software that was written in
TCL.. and even had an API for the system.  I can't recall the name of
the software at the moment, but it was very specialized so not cheap.
This was during the late 90s/early 2000s.

I have no idea if the company is still around of if they still sell the
software or if it's still tcl-based (my memory fails me).

-a

Re: [gentoo-user] Tcl in your system...

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Pandu Poluan  wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone here ever use Tcl for scripting (i.e., automating
> repetitive procedures) or even *gasp* serious programming.

At my workplace we use a commercial Tcl-based mail and web server for
sending out millions of emails to our customers. Scripting the
messages with Tcl to generate dynamic mail contents based on their
location, purchasing history, doing A/B tests, etc.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -j, make -j and make -l

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:47:49 +0100, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:

> > With the cooling system I currently have, I don't like to push it
> > too much (a new watercooler should arrive tomorrow), but
> > MAKEOPTS="-j16 -l10" appears to be a definite improvement over the
> > old -j8 with no -l.  
> 
> I have it in two variables:
> 
> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs=8 --load-average=6"
> MAKEOPTS="-j18"
> 
> Will try your -l10 as well, that might make a difference, sure.
 
The trouble with --load-average in emerge is that it is only checked as
each ebuild is about to start, so you get the "load explosion" mentioned
previously when many ebuilds start and once and then get into their
compile phases. I'm using --jobs, with no value, in EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS
and the -l10 for make seems to take care of the load very nicely (sorry
about the pun there).


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If Satan ever loses his hair, there'll be hell toupee.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Google Talk and 9999 versions

[Dale]

Michael Mol wrote:

on my partial ~amd64 system, I have googletalk-plugin installed, and
it serves me well. On my new box (also partial ~amd64, but far more in
the stable realm than unstable realm), I tried to emerge
googletalk-plugin, and it's masked. It's also a '' version
package. I vaguely recall that '' packages are special somehow.
How is that?




I think those are called the live builds.  Basically, they are not 
tested much and are really close to falling off the bleeding edge.  I 
rarely mess with those.  There is a google-talkplugin-2.5.6.0 that is 
not live but keyworded.  If it was me, I would at least try that version 
first.  It is likely tested a bit more, not going to change so often and 
be stable as it gets in the unstable branch of the tree.  If that fails, 
go back to the older version.  If neither works, then I would try to 
 build.  I'd also cross my fingers for good measure.


Dale

:-)  :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how 
you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Michael Mol  wrote:
> I've got four 750GB drives in addition to the installed system drive.
>
> I'd like to aggregate them and split them into a few volumes. My first
> inclination would be to raid them and drop lvm on top.  I know lvm well
> enough, but I don't remember md that well.
>
> Since I don't recall md well, and this isn't urgent, I figure I can look at
> the options.
>
> The obvious ones appear tobe mdraid, dmraid and btrfs. I'm not sure I'm
> interested in btrfs until it's got a fsck that will repair errors, but I'm
> looking forward to it once it's ready.
>
> Any options I missed? What are the advantages and disadvantages?
>
> ZZ

Hi Michael,
   Welcome to the world of what ever sort of multi-disk environment
you choose. It's a HUGE topic and a conversation I look forward to
having as you dig through it.

   My main compute system here at home has six 500GB WD RE3 drives.
Five are in use with one as a cold spare.  I'm using md. It's pretty
mature and you have good access to the main developer through the
email list. I don't know much about dm. If this is your first time
putting RAID on a box (it was for me) then I think md is a good
choice. On the other hand you're more system software savy than I am
so go with what you think is best for you.

1) First lesson - not all hard drives make good RAID hard drives. I
started with six 1TB WD Green drives and found they made _terrible_
RAID units so I took them out and bought _real_ RAID drives. They were
only half as large for the same price but they have worked perfectly
for nearly 2 years.

2) Second lesson - prepare to build a few RAID configurations and
TEST, TEST, TEST __BEFORE__ (BEFORE!!!) you make _ANY_ decision about
what sort of RAID you really want. There are a LOT of parameter
choices that effect performance, reliability, capacity and I think to
some extent your ability to change RAID types later on. To name a few:
The obvious RAID type (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,10, etc.) but also chunk size,
metadata type, physical layout for certain RAID types, etc. I strongly
suggest building 5-10 different configurations and testing them with
bonnie++ to gauge speed. I didn't do enough of this before I built
this system and I've been dealing with the effects ever since.

3) Third lesson - think deeply about what happens when 1 drive goes
bad and you are in the process of fixing the system. Do you have a
spare drive ready? Is it in the box? Hot or cold? What happens if a
second drive in the system fails while you're rebuilding the RAID?
It's from the same manufacturing lot so it probably suffers from the
same weaknesses. My decision for the most part was (for data or system
drives) 3-drive RAID1 or 5-drive RAID6. For backup I went with 5-drive
RAID5. It all makes me feel good, but it's too complicated.

4) Lastly - as they say all the time on the mdadm list: RAID is not a backup.

   Personally I like your idea of one big RAID with lvm on top but I
haven't done it myself. I think it's what I would look at today if I
was starting from scratch, but I'm not sure. It would take some study.

Hope this helps even a little,
Mark

[gentoo-user] Google Talk and 9999 versions

[Michael Mol]

on my partial ~amd64 system, I have googletalk-plugin installed, and
it serves me well. On my new box (also partial ~amd64, but far more in
the stable realm than unstable realm), I tried to emerge
googletalk-plugin, and it's masked. It's also a '' version
package. I vaguely recall that '' packages are special somehow.
How is that?


-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -j, make -j and make -l

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 29.11.2011 12:08, schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:36:08 +0100, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> 
>> Neil, you run a core-i7-2600 as well ... what is your current 
>> best-practise with that CPU, concerning the values of N and -l
>> ... ?
> 
> With the cooling system I currently have, I don't like to push it
> too much (a new watercooler should arrive tomorrow), but
> MAKEOPTS="-j16 -l10" appears to be a definite improvement over the
> old -j8 with no -l.

I have it in two variables:

EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs=8 --load-average=6"
MAKEOPTS="-j18"

and it doesn't push it much, even without any watercooling in there
(and without that "K" in the cpu-name ...)

Will try your -l10 as well, that might make a difference, sure.

thx, Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] dmraid, mdraid, lvm, btrfs, what?

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:07 AM, Florian Philipp  wrote:
> Am 29.11.2011 05:10, schrieb Michael Mol:
>> I've got four 750GB drives in addition to the installed system drive.
>>
>> I'd like to aggregate them and split them into a few volumes. My first
>> inclination would be to raid them and drop lvm on top.  I know lvm well
>> enough, but I don't remember md that well.
>>
>> Since I don't recall md well, and this isn't urgent, I figure I can look
>> at the options.
>>
>> The obvious ones appear tobe mdraid, dmraid and btrfs. I'm not sure I'm
>> interested in btrfs until it's got a fsck that will repair errors, but
>> I'm looking forward to it once it's ready.
>>
>> Any options I missed? What are the advantages and disadvantages?
>>
>> ZZ
>>
>
> Sounds good so far. Of course, you only need mdraid OR dmraid (md
> recommended).

dmraid looks rather new on the block. Or, at least, I've been more
aware of md than dm over the years. What's its purpose, as compared to
dmraid? Why is mdraid recommended over it?

> What kind of RAID level do you want to use, 10 or 5? You
> can also split it: Use a smaller RAID 10 for performance-critical
> partitions like /usr and the more space-efficient RAID 5 for bulk like
> videos. You can handle this with one LVM volume group consisting of two
> physical volumes. Then you can decide on a per-logical-volume basis
> where it should allocate space and also migrate LVs between the two PVs.

Since I've got four disks for the pool, I was thinking raid10 with lvm
on top, and a single lvm pv above that.

> Another thing you can think of is whether you want encryption. I've done
> this for my laptop. The usual setup would by md->lvm->crypt. I've done
> it crypt->lvm (an LVM physical volume on top of an encrypted partition).
> This way, I only need to enter the password once. You can enforce a
> specific order between lvm, md and dmcrypt by putting stuff like this in
> /etc/rc.conf:
> rc_dmcrypt_before="lvm"
> rc_dmcrypt_after="udev"

Really not interested in encryption for this box. No need.

-- 
:wq

[gentoo-user] Re: Disappearing useflag hell [SOLVED]

[walt]

On 11/28/2011 05:38 PM, Dale wrote:



I'm glad you got yours sorted out but I'm still curious as to how it
is on in one place and off somewhere else. I know a dev has it set
that way and I'm SURE he/she has a good reason for it. I just don't
know where that is done.


Have a look at the files in /usr/portage/profiles/base/.  Reading the
comments turned on the light bulb for me.


We can add this to the weird things happen section. lol


Actually, I created the problem for myself, which is not so weird
at all.  Happens every day :(

At the time I switched to sharing portage over NFS, I didn't really
expect it to work, so I took some shortcuts by making symlinks where
I knew they really didn't belong -- but I figured I'd be undoing
everything again in a few minutes anyway.  Dumb!  Do it right the
first time...

Re: [gentoo-user] openrc 0.9.4 : opaque warnings

[Philip Webb]

28 Pandu Poluan wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 17:17, Philip Webb  wrote:
>> Since updating to Openrc 0.9.4 , I'm getting some opaque messages :
>> (1) When starting eth0 : "You are using a bash array for config_eth0.
>> This feature will be removed in the future.  Please see net.example
>> for the correct format for config_eth0".
> Open /etc/conf.d/net ; Compare it with /etc/conf.d/net.example
> For example: The old way of writing multiple addresses for eth0 is:
> config_eth0=("1.2.3.4" "6.7.8.9")
> The new non-bash-array way: config_eth0="1.2.3.4  6.7.8.9"
> Make sure you rewrite your conf.d files according to the new way.

Thanks: I've done that & my I/net connection doesn't seem affected.

>> (2) When starting D-BUS system messages: "Use of the opts variable
>> is deprecated & will be removed in the future.  Please see extra_commands
>> or extra_started_commands".
> The relevant initscript in /etc/init.d is still using opts="..." line.
> The newer way is to put the words in opts="..."
> into extra_commands="..." or extra_started_commands="..."
> both parameters described in 'man runscript'
> You *can* edit the offending initscript,
> but it should be the package's maintainers' responsibility
> to revise the initscript and release a new revision.
> Just wait say one or two months & update to the fixed new revision.

So that one looks like an oversight by the maintainer.
I've read & noted the subsequent msgs in the thread: thanks.

A further question: since I had previously updated  /etc/conf.d/net ,
I was given a router by my ISP & therefore started to use DHCP.
The new  net.example  file suggests I might make further changes in 'net'
& simplify my configuration files.  What I have now in 'net' is :

# For a static configuration use eg :
# PP 29 : drop Bash syntax to avoid start-up warning
#config_eth0=( "192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255" )
config_eth0="192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255"
# You need to create the PPP net script yourself:
# do it via 'cd /etc/init.d ; ln -s net.lo net.ppp0'
# We have to instruct ppp0 to actually use ppp
config_ppp0=( "ppp" )
# Each PPP interface requires an interface to use as a "Link"
link_ppp0="eth0"# PPPoE requires an ethernet interface
# Specify what pppd plugins you want to use: available are:
# pppoe, pppoa, capi, dhcpc, minconn, radius, radattr, radrealms, winbind 
plugins_ppp0=( "pppoe" )
# PPP requires at least a username.
# It will use the password specified in /etc/ppp/*-secrets
username_ppp0='@***'
#pppd_ppp0=( "debug" "updetach" "noauth" "defaultroute" "usepeerdns" "persist" )
pppd_ppp0=( "updetach" "defaultroute" )

Does anyone have further suggestions or comments ?

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -j, make -j and make -l

[Neil Bothwick]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:36:08 +0100, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:

> Neil, you run a core-i7-2600 as well ... what is your current
> best-practise with that CPU, concerning the values of N and -l ... ?

With the cooling system I currently have, I don't like to push it too
much (a new watercooler should arrive tomorrow), but MAKEOPTS="-j16 -l10"
appears to be a definite improvement over the old -j8 with no -l.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Scrotum is a small planet near Uranus. True/False?


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Re: [gentoo-user] Tcl in your system...

[Håkon Alstadheim]

Den 29. nov. 2011 06:03, skrev Michael Mol:

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Pandu Poluan  wrote:

Just wondering if anyone here ever use Tcl for scripting (i.e., automating
repetitive procedures) or even *gasp* serious programming.

Not me, but Tcl is one of the best-represented langauges on the site I run.



I use it for small stuff (with expect) regarding keeping my cheap 
consumer-grade routers/switches running. Those things usually have 
either a telnet or ssh interface that allows me to 
monitor/configure/reboot, but they are usually too ficle to be 
programmed in any predictable way. Muddle through a problem manually, 
and record the solution in an expect script to keep until next time. 
Over the years I have accumulated several that are stable enough to run 
unattended. Last couple of times that my most troublesome wifi-box got 
alzheimers, it got rebooted automatically. Dynamic DNS (10+ hostnames) 
and ADSL rebooting happens within 5 minutes of my ISP deciding to do 
something weird. expectk brings a semblance of sanity.


No serious programming though. Did use exmh as my main mailclient until 
~9 years ago. It is still being developed, look into that if you want an 
example of Tcl in a largeish project.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Converter parallel-port to USB

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 29.11.2011 04:16, schrieb James:
> Stefan G. Weichinger  xunil.at> writes:
> 
> 
>> http://www.cups.org/str.php?L3742
>> Does anyone use this USB-adapter-cable:
>> ID 067b:2305 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL2305 Parallel Port
> 
> Unknown. Look in the driver section of building a kernel
> for the supported devices. I have use FTDI usb-serial converters
> without issue.

I think it would be supported via the usblp module, but I also found
info that CUPS doesn't like that. Tried both ways, no success so far.

>> successfully with gentoo?
>>
>> If no, are there any "yes, works" recommendations for an adapter-cable
>> or -card to attach an old, but perfectly printing HP LJ2100 to my new
>> machine?
> 
> How about the EIO jet card mentioned in the manual for this device?
> They should be cheap, used.

Good idea, will check that.

> An old parallel port on an old pci card should do the 
> trick, if all you needs is a parallel port. 

Yep. No old PCI-slot then on the new motherboard ...

> Some of those old Laserjet printer could be set up across a serial
> port, if nothing else works.

I found something like a PS/2 port under the hood ... might that be the
serial port? Gotta dig up some manuals ...

Thanks, Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Converter parallel-port to USB

[Dale]

John Campbell wrote:

On 11/28/2011 07:16 PM, James wrote:


An old parallel port on an old pci card should do the
trick, if all you needs is a parallel port.

Some of those old Laserjet printer could be set up across a serial
port, if nothing else works.


I'd also check your computer's innards for a parallel port header.  My 
gigabyte board has several legacy headers, a parallel port is one of 
them.





Mine does too.  It has a serial port, used for my UPS.  I bet it has a 
parallel port too, at least one anyway.


Dale

:-)  :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how 
you interpreted my words!