Re: [gentoo-user] Change from udev to eudev?

[wabe]

waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:06:18AM +0200, wabe wrote
> > Marc Joliet  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Wednesday 08 June 2016 02:43:07 wabe wrote:
> > > [...]  
> > > >But I wonder why portage wanna change udev to eudev on my
> > > >system. It seems that this is not the case for everyone else.
> > > >I'm using a stable hardened gentoo system and did not change USE
> > > >flags or other settings. Just started my regular update
> > > >process.
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > My suspicion is that libgudev is in @world (or in a set your
> > > created yourself). Perhaps try "emerge --deselect libgudev"; if
> > > it works, the hard blocker should become a soft blocker ("b"
> > > instead of "B"), which portage can resolve by itself.  
> > 
> > It isn't listed in /var/lib/portage/world. But it's a dependency of
> > about a dozen of packages on my system.
> > 
> > At the moment I don't have enough time to search for the reason why 
> > portage wants to install eudev. So I simply unmerged udev and 
> > installed eudev.  
> 
>   See
> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/bbd5a2a5775eebbb7e62161125c66135
> at the end of a long thread on gentoo-dev...
> 
> > The council has approved the following decision 7-0:
> > 
> > "In light of the support for eudev among Gentoo non-systemd users,
> > and a lack of strong technical drivers to block a change, the
> > Council approves changing the default virtual/udev provider for
> > non-systemd users to eudev. The council encourages all maintainers
> > to try to support either provider and cooperate with those who
> > provide patches when necessary."
> > 
> > I'd recommend that the eudev team implement the change and
> > communicate vs just having a stampede for the virtual...  

THX a lot for this info. 

>   If you are not running systemd, then eudev is the preferred udev
> implementation.  Binary distros can build systemd, extract udev on a
> developer's machine and package it like a library.  Gentoo, being
> source-based, has to do some hackish workarounds, installing, and then
> removing, much of systemd on the user's machine with every update to
> udev.  Lennart Poettering has made no secret that he's chomping at the
> bit to get rid of standalone udev.  Even more ominous is the following
> 
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-May/032147.html
> 
> > * A new (currently still internal) API sd-device.h has been
> >   added to libsystemd. This modernized API is supposed to
> >   replace libudev eventually. In fact, already much of libudev
> >   is now just a wrapper around sd-device.h.  
> 

I'm glad that gentoo users still have an alternative to systemd, and 
hope that this will also be the case in future.

But I really don't wanna start another pro/con systemd thread here! ;-)

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] Change from udev to eudev?

[waltdnes]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:06:18AM +0200, wabe wrote
> Marc Joliet  wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 08 June 2016 02:43:07 wabe wrote:
> > [...]
> > >But I wonder why portage wanna change udev to eudev on my system. It
> > >seems that this is not the case for everyone else. I'm using a stable
> > >hardened gentoo system and did not change USE flags or other
> > >settings. Just started my regular update process.  
> > [...]
> > 
> > My suspicion is that libgudev is in @world (or in a set your created
> > yourself). Perhaps try "emerge --deselect libgudev"; if it works, the
> > hard blocker should become a soft blocker ("b" instead of "B"), which
> > portage can resolve by itself.
> 
> It isn't listed in /var/lib/portage/world. But it's a dependency of
> about a dozen of packages on my system.
> 
> At the moment I don't have enough time to search for the reason why 
> portage wants to install eudev. So I simply unmerged udev and 
> installed eudev.

  See 
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/bbd5a2a5775eebbb7e62161125c66135
at the end of a long thread on gentoo-dev...

> The council has approved the following decision 7-0:
> 
> "In light of the support for eudev among Gentoo non-systemd users,
> and a lack of strong technical drivers to block a change, the Council
> approves changing the default virtual/udev provider for non-systemd
> users to eudev. The council encourages all maintainers to try to
> support either provider and cooperate with those who provide patches
> when necessary."
> 
> I'd recommend that the eudev team implement the change and communicate
> vs just having a stampede for the virtual...

  If you are not running systemd, then eudev is the preferred udev
implementation.  Binary distros can build systemd, extract udev on a
developer's machine and package it like a library.  Gentoo, being
source-based, has to do some hackish workarounds, installing, and then
removing, much of systemd on the user's machine with every update to
udev.  Lennart Poettering has made no secret that he's chomping at the
bit to get rid of standalone udev.  Even more ominous is the following

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-May/032147.html

> * A new (currently still internal) API sd-device.h has been
>   added to libsystemd. This modernized API is supposed to
>   replace libudev eventually. In fact, already much of libudev
>   is now just a wrapper around sd-device.h.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Change from udev to eudev?

[wabe]

Jonathan Callen  wrote:

> On 06/09/2016 10:00 AM, Dale wrote:
> > waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:  
> >> On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 08:16:57AM -0500, Dale wrote  
> >>> k...@aspodata.se wrote:  
>  Dale:
>  ...  
> > Can a system even boot without udev?  
>  Yes, use sys-fs/static-dev (unless you have some special boot 
>  requirements).  
> >>> Well, I was talking about if udev was removed and then a reboot
> >>> was done.  I would think it would boot to a certain point then
> >>> when whatever started and needed devices to be created in /dev,
> >>> it would start failing.  I suspect this would vary depending on
> >>> the install as well.  
> >>   You need *A* device-manager.  You can use udev, eudev,
> >> static-dev, mdev, whatever, but you need something.  Mind you,
> >> some software assumes or requires udev/eudev.
> >>  
> > 
> > 
> > What I was referring to was if during this switch from udev to
> > eudev, someone rebooted without any dev manager at all.  In other
> > words, emerge -C udev and then reboot before emerging eudev or some
> > other dev manager.  I suspect that would get interesting pretty
> > quick. 
> > 
> > Dale
> > 
> > :-)  :-) 
> > 
> >   
> 
> Actually, you no longer need a user-space device manager at all,
> unless you want to be able to access device nodes under /dev as a
> user that isn't UID=0 or has CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE.  The kernel provides a
> devtmpfs filesystem that will have every single device node that udev
> used to create (udev no longer even creates the devices -- it just
> relies on devtmpfs doing so), but most of them will be owned by 0:0
> (root:root) with permissions 0600; excepting certain nodes
> like /dev/null or /dev/zero, which will be owned by 0:0 with
> permissions 0666.  One other thing that udev does that you might rely
> on is to create symlinks like /dev/disk/by-label/*, which can be used
> by mount(8) if you specify LABEL=foo in /etc/fstab.  The only other
> things that I'm aware of udev doing is to rename network devices and
> (possibly) to notify other applications of changes, somehow (but I'm
> not sure that it actually does that).
> 
> If you don't actually need any of that (you are working on an embedded
> system where you only need root anyway, for instance), then you can
> just use a bare devtmpfs without a device manager changing
> permissions, adding links, etc.

THX for all the information. Now I understand better what (e)udev is
doing.

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] Change from udev to eudev?

[wabe]

Dale  wrote:

> wabe wrote:
> > Dale  wrote:
> >  
> >> wabe wrote:  
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> emerge wants to install eudev. Now I wonder if this is ok 
> >>> and if so, how I can do this without breaking my system.
> >>>
> >>> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> This is the output from emerge:  
> > [...]  
> >> I switched mine back when eudev was new and not even stable yet.
> >> It was as simple as unmerge udev and emerge eudev.  I don't recall
> >> even doing a reboot, which I rarely do here anyway.   
> > THX for your answer.
> >
> > That's also what I normally do in such a case but I was not sure if
> > the systems keeps running when I remove udev. I will make a backup 
> > before I remove udev. Then I should be on the safe side.
> >
> > But I wonder why portage wanna change udev to eudev on my system. It
> > seems that this is not the case for everyone else. I'm using a
> > stable hardened gentoo system and did not change USE flags or other
> > settings. Just started my regular update process.
> >
> > @R0b0t1: THX also for your answer.
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> > wabe
> >
> >  
> 
> 
> Add the -t option and it should show what is pulling it in.  I don't
> know why, I always forget to add that when something confusing happens
> on my end but I always think about it when it happens to someone
> else. I think it could be age related.  lol 

Thanks for the hint. I will use -t from now on. Unfortunately it didn't
gave me more information than I already had from using some "equery d"
commands.

Whatever. I unmerged udev and merged eudev. Now everything seems to be
ok on my gentoo system.

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] Change from udev to eudev?

[wabe]

Marc Joliet  wrote:

> On Wednesday 08 June 2016 02:43:07 wabe wrote:
> [...]
> >But I wonder why portage wanna change udev to eudev on my system. It
> >seems that this is not the case for everyone else. I'm using a stable
> >hardened gentoo system and did not change USE flags or other
> >settings. Just started my regular update process.  
> [...]
> 
> My suspicion is that libgudev is in @world (or in a set your created
> yourself). Perhaps try "emerge --deselect libgudev"; if it works, the
> hard blocker should become a soft blocker ("b" instead of "B"), which
> portage can resolve by itself.

It isn't listed in /var/lib/portage/world. But it's a dependency of
about a dozen of packages on my system.

At the moment I don't have enough time to search for the reason why 
portage wants to install eudev. So I simply unmerged udev and 
installed eudev.

--
Regards
wabe

[gentoo-user] Re: [SOLVED]Re: [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Jonathan Callen]

On 06/12/2016 11:54 AM, Andrew Lowe wrote:
> On 06/12/16 23:07, Andrew Lowe wrote:
>> On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
 Hi Andrew,

 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe >:

 Hi all,
  A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
 seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.

  I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
 bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
 learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put
 the &
 at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
 it's major angst.

  The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
 the top of my head I tried:

  alias "npp=npp %1 &"

 Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?


 npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
 best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
 is there a better way?

  Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,

  Andrew


 Hope this helps,
 Nico
>>>
>>>
>>> Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
>>> With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?
>>>
>>> Or look at it this way:
>>>
>>> It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
>>> other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
>>> problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?
>>>
>>> Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
>>> who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...
>>>
>> Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of
>> an Engineering degree. These are people who will become
>> Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire
>> to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is
>> their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary,
>> but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to
>> think about.
>>
>> In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell
>> them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and
>> reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken,
>> it won't do as I want"
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.
>>
> 
> Simple answer to this which a single google search found. You CAN'T
> pass parameters to an alias under Bash. You need to do a function. A
> simple function of:
> 
> npp()
> {
> npp $1 &
> }
> 
> was all I needed.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 

A better function for the same (that also doesn't loop forever because
the function might be calling itself):

npp() {
command npp "$@" &
}

This allows any number of arguments to be passed, instead of "exactly
one" and allows filenames containing spaces, etc. to be passed correctly.

-- 
Jonathan Callen




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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Mick]

On Sunday 12 Jun 2016 18:04:39 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Oi! I'm missing e-mails!

I occasionally miss the odd email here and there too.  Sometimes I find (only 
some of) them in Gmail's Spam folder.  Other messages totally disappear and I 
surmise I missed parts of a thread by subsequent messages in the list, which I 
receive as expected.  Tis a mystery!  O_o

[snip ...]
> Now that's a classic debug case - where are these messages being dropped?
> 
> It's the second time I've noticed it in this list today.

Gmail is more reliable than other mail ISPs I have used over the years and it 
is free (at the point of use), so I live with it.  I don't know if missing 
messages are caused by Gmail, or by gentoo's M/L smtp server.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Peter Humphrey]

Oi! I'm missing e-mails!

On Sunday 12 Jun 2016 23:07:09 Andrew Lowe wrote:
> On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:

I haven't received Alan's e-mail.

> > On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
> >> Hi Andrew,
> >> 
> >> 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe  >> 
> >> >:
> >> Hi all,
> >> 
> >>  A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
> >> 
> >> seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.
> >> 
> >>  I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
> >> 
> >> bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
> >> learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the
> >> &
> >> at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
> >> it's major angst.
> >> 
> >>  The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
> >> 
> >> the top of my head I tried:
> >>  alias "npp=npp %1 &"
> >> 
> >> Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?
> >> 
> >> npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
> >> best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
> >> is there a better way?
> >> 
> >>  Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
> >>  
> >>  Andrew
> >> 
> >> Hope this helps,
> >> Nico
> > 
> > Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
> > With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?
> > 
> > Or look at it this way:
> > 
> > It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
> > other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
> > problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?
> > 
> > Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
> > who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...
> 
>   Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of an
> Engineering degree. These are people who will become
> Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire
> to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is
> their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary,
> but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to
> think about.
> 
>   In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell
> them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and
> reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken,
> it won't do as I want"
> 
>   Andrew
> 
> p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.

Now that's a classic debug case - where are these messages being dropped?

It's the second time I've noticed it in this list today.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

[SOLVED]Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Andrew Lowe]

On 06/12/16 23:07, Andrew Lowe wrote:

On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:

On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:

Hi Andrew,

2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe >:

Hi all,
 A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.

 I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the &
at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
it's major angst.

 The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
the top of my head I tried:

 alias "npp=npp %1 &"

Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?


npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
is there a better way?

 Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,

 Andrew


Hope this helps,
Nico



Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?

Or look at it this way:

It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?

Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...


Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of
an Engineering degree. These are people who will become
Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire
to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is
their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary,
but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to
think about.

In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell
them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and
reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken,
it won't do as I want"

Andrew

p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.



	Simple answer to this which a single google search found. You CAN'T 
pass parameters to an alias under Bash. You need to do a function. A 
simple function of:


npp()
{
npp $1 &
}

was all I needed.

Andrew

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Andrew Lowe]

On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:

On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:

Hi Andrew,

2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe >:

Hi all,
 A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.

 I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the &
at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
it's major angst.

 The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
the top of my head I tried:

 alias "npp=npp %1 &"

Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?


npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
is there a better way?

 Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,

 Andrew


Hope this helps,
Nico



Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?

Or look at it this way:

It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?

Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...

	Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of an 
Engineering degree. These are people who will become 
Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire 
to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is 
their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary, 
but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to 
think about.


	In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell 
them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and 
reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken, 
it won't do as I want"


Andrew

p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:

Hi Andrew,

2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe >:

Hi all,
 A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.

 I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the &
at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
it's major angst.

 The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
the top of my head I tried:

 alias "npp=npp %1 &"

Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?


npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
is there a better way?

 Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,

 Andrew


Hope this helps,
Nico



Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?

Or look at it this way:

It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any 
other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the 
problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?


Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people 
who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Nico Verrijdt]

Hi Andrew,

2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe :

> Hi all,
> A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who seem to
> know their shells back to front so here goes.
>
> I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
> bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to learn C
> on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the & at the end of
> the command when I fire up the editor but for them, it's major angst.
>
> The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off the top
> of my head I tried:
>
> alias "npp=npp %1 &"
>

Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?


> npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the best/easiest
> way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or is there a better
> way?
>
> Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
>
> Andrew
>
>
Hope this helps,
Nico

[gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and

[Andrew Lowe]

Hi all,
	A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who seem to know 
their shells back to front so here goes.


	I have set up a Win32 based development environment, 
bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to learn 
C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the & at the 
end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them, it's major 
angst.


	The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off the top of my 
head I tried:


alias "npp=npp %1 &"

npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the best/easiest 
way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or is there a better 
way?


Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,

Andrew

Re: [gentoo-user] imagemagick / graphicsmagick collision

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/06/2016 12:50, Heiko Baums wrote:

Am 12.06.2016 um 12:05 schrieb Alan McKinnon:

My main desktop has been giving me these stupid error for a week now.
ANd I can't figure out what portage wants to do or how to stop it (other
than masking graphics magick):

[blocks B  ] media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]
("media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]" is blocking
media-gfx/imagemagick-6.9.4.7)
[blocks B  ] media-gfx/imagemagick ("media-gfx/imagemagick" is
blocking media-gfx/graphicsmagick-1.3.24)



So here's the question: Why is portage not realising I already have a
suitable *magick and decides I ought to have the blocker?


Install graphicsmagick with USE="-imagemagick".

If I recall correctly the blocker is because of a file or a feature
collision of media-gfx/imagemagick and
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick].




I could do that, but I don't see any compelling reason to have 
graphicsmagick at all and I can't figure why portage doesn't accept 
installed imagemagick as fulfilling the DEPEND


As per my other reply to Neil, --changed-deps=n makes a difference

emerge --changed-deps=y finds graphicsmagick and wants to use it
emerge --changed-deps=n finds imagemagick and uses that.

Maybe if I set --backtrack= portage will find a 
resolution.


Alan

Re: [gentoo-user] imagemagick / graphicsmagick collision

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/06/2016 12:13, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:05:47 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:


My main desktop has been giving me these stupid error for a week now.
ANd I can't figure out what portage wants to do or how to stop it
(other than masking graphics magick):

[blocks B  ] media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]
("media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]" is blocking
media-gfx/imagemagick-6.9.4.7)
[blocks B  ] media-gfx/imagemagick ("media-gfx/imagemagick" is
blocking media-gfx/graphicsmagick-1.3.24)



graphicsmagick is not installed.


Everything pulling in graphicsmagick is already satisfied by
imagemagick[png]:



So here's the question: Why is portage not realising I already have a
suitable *magick and decides I ought to have the blocker?


You've probably already tried these but

does adding --tree give anything more useful?


Not really. The depgraph in the error output covers it all


Does grep magick -r /etc/portage show anything?



No,

# grep -r magick /etc/portage/
/etc/portage/make.conf: -icq icu id3tag ieee1394 imagemagick imap 
innodb introspection \

/etc/portage/package.use/package.use:media-gfx/imagemagick fpx hdri q32 q8
/etc/portage/package.use/libperl:media-gfx/imagemagick -perl



I *did* have --changed-deps=y in my emerge world command, taking it out 
works and portage does what I expect. I read the man page entry for it, but


a) it doesn't make much sense
b) I can't see how that would make a difference

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox and VPN, plus security in generla

[Mick]

On Saturday 11 Jun 2016 21:48:49 Dale wrote:
> Mick wrote:
> > On Saturday 11 Jun 2016 17:57:11 Dale wrote:
> >> Howdy,
> >> 
> >> I ran up on a video website that had some info on it.  I found it
> >> interesting and was curious about what it said and another question I
> >> been wondering about.  It mentioned using a VPN so that the NSA, my ISP
> >> and others couldn't "see" what was going on.
> > 
> > I don't think there is any VPN service offered for a fee to the public
> > that
> > hasn't been compromised by the NSA, with or without the cooperation of its
> > owners (unless it is based outside the USA).
> > 
> > At a basic level a VPN tunnel is no different to functionality than SSH. 
> > Like SSH both ends (local & remote peers) must be able to negotiate a
> > connection over the VPN tunnel.  High(er) grade ciphers, PFS and SSL
> > certificates create a more secure tunnel than otherwise would be the
> > case.
> 
> After the Snowden thing, I read a article that talked about how the NSA
> could monitor https data and decrypt it basically, live.  In other
> words, they didn't have to spend time breaking it because they already
> knew how to break it with some sort of backdoor method.  I don't recall
> where the article was just that it was a site I've seen mentioned a fair
> amount when it comes to geeky/nerdy stuff.  In other words, not some
> site just looking to stir the pot.

Yes, the NSA has used supercomputers to precalculate large primes for at least 
up to 1024bit DHE, as used by many VPN and SSL connections.


> >> So, my first question,
> >> does that work and does it require the site on the other end to have it
> >> set up as well?
> > 
> > BOTH sites must be able to negotiate a tunnel, using the same ciphers. 
> > IKE
> > VPNs are more fiddly to set up and troubleshoot than SSH.
> > 
> >> Bonus question, is it easy to use on any site if it
> >> doesn't require the other end to use it?
> > 
> > The way public these public VPN services work is by acting as a proxy
> > server forwarding your connection ownard to your intended website,
> > without revealing your local IP address.  As long as the connection to
> > the intended website is also encrypted, e.g. over https, then your
> > connection remains both anonymous and secure.
> 
> This explains some of what I read on the link Dutch posted.  Since https
> seems to have already been broken, well, there goes that.

Only some of it is broken, depending on the configuration of the particular 
webserver and the browser.  Banks in particular used to configure their web 
servers to the lowest common denominator (mostly for their customers' MSIE 
compatibility) and until the Snowden revelations came out many banks were 
still using RC4 SSL ciphers.


> >> I'm thinking of using this for
> >> my banking/financial sites as well if it is a good idea.
> > 
> > Good idea if you are out and about a lot, using unsecured public WiFi for
> > this purpose.  Depending how you can configured your Linksys you could
> > use your own local network for the same purpose, i.e. as a SOCKS5 server.
> 
> I only access my bank and such from my desktop.  I don't have a laptop
> or one of those smart phones either.  I wouldn't mind a laptop but not
> interested in a smart phone.  That said, I've been notified by me cell
> phone folks that I have to get a newer phone before they do their tower
> upgrade.  If I don't, my phone won't work any more.  I have a old
> Motorola Razr thingy.  Hey, it makes/receives calls and does a decent
> text.  It works.  I also don't butt dial since it is a flip phone.  lol

When you get yourself a smart phone you should be able to use its VPN client 
to connect to your home's LAN and the bounce off to the Internet from there.  
Or you can wait until you get back home and browse the Internet using a normal 
size screen.  :p


> >> This is something I been wondering about and I've seen a few posts here
> >> that bump around the edges of this question.  As most here know, I use
> >> Gentoo.  It's a older install but I keep it up to date.  I sit behind a
> >> DSL modem, a older Westell one, and a Linksys router, the old blue nosed
> >> one.  Neither modem or router has wireless stuff included.  Is that
> >> hardware and my Gentoo install pretty secure for most hackers?  In other
> >> words, since I don't keep the formula to run car/truck engines on water
> >> here, would this stop most since there is nothing worth stealing here?
> > 
> > You haven't given this much thought ... How would all these hackers who
> > want to steal the secret of running car engines on water, know that you
> > have nothing worth stealing in your secret lab?
> 
> Well, I'm sure a lot can be told by the fact that I'm on a basic home
> DSL account.  I'm not on J. B. Blows secret services network.   Now if I
> had a super fast connection that had something interesting in the name,
> then I could see someone peeking around and thinking, let's go break
> into this network because 

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox and VPN, plus security in generla

[Mick]

On Saturday 11 Jun 2016 21:04:27 Dale wrote:
> Dutch Ingraham wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 05:57:11PM -0500, Dale wrote:
> >> been wondering about.  It mentioned using a VPN so that the NSA, my ISP
> >> and others couldn't "see" what was going on.  So, my first question,
> >> does that work and does it require the site on the other end to have it
> >> set up as well?  Bonus question, is it easy to use on any site if it
> >> doesn't require the other end to use it?  I'm thinking of using this for
> >> my banking/financial sites as well if it is a good idea.
> > 
> > I tried a VPN for banking; as many different source IPs were showing as
> > attempting to log into my online account, the bank thought I was being
> > hacked and locked my accounts.  Took many trips to the bank to create
> > all new accounts, etc.
> > 
> > As to VPNs in general, see:
> > 
> > http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/06/aiming-for-anonymity-ars-assesses-> 
> > > the-state-of-vpns-in-2016/
> I sort of have a vague idea of what a VPN is but maybe some reading will
> do me some good.  Heading over to this link.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

A VPN connection is nothing more than an encrypted network connection between 
two end points (local & remote peers).  You set up an encrypted tunnel and 
your application data travels through it.  Both peers' network configurations 
have to be set up for this purpose. The VPN tunnel could be set up with 
another peer for the purpose of communicating securely with that peer alone, 
or to another device the remote peer will forward your packets to.  In the 
latter case the VPN peer is acting as a VPN gateway to whatever lies beyond.  
Site to Site VPN connections behave like this.

There are a number of different types of VPN, each employing different methods 
to exchange encryption keys between the peers securely and then to set up a 
secure network tunnel using these keys.  L2TP+IPSec, OpenSSL, IKEv1/2+IPSec, 
etc. are all different VPN types.

VPNs can be deployed for different use cases:

Typically you set up a VPN to achieve site-to-site secure network 
communications - e.g. between your own LAN and your brother's, between a 
company's head office and a satellite office, etc.  You would normally set 
this up between two edge routers which have a compatible VPN capability.  Your 
Linksys may have VPN in its firmware, or if you flush it with dd-
wrt/openwrt/tomato/etc. you will have VPN capability at your end at least.

VPNs are also used to achieve PC-to-site secure communications, e.g. between a 
employee's laptop, iPhone, EPOS, et al., and the company's LAN.  This is also 
known as a roadwarrior configuration and you could use it if you had a laptop 
and wanted to e.g. access some files on your home server.

If you combine VPN tunnelling with packet forwarding then you could use the 
remote VPN gateway or another forwarding server in the LAN behind it, as a 
proxy server for your general Internet connections.  Your connection to the 
VPN gateway will be encrypted and therefore your connection to the VPN gateway 
will be secure, even if you happen to be using an unsecured WiFi connection to 
the Internet at your local Starbux.  The connection forwarded from the proxy 
server to the Internet may or may not be secure, depending on the application 
level encryption (e.g. HTTPS) that you are using at the time.  This is one of 
the purposes Public VPN services cater for, allowing you to connect to the 
Internet securely.  For a fee they allow you to connect to their VPN gateway 
and then forward your packets from there to any site on the Internet your 
application wants to connect to.  The other purpose of Public VPNs is that 
their use achieves anonymity of your real IP address, as long as they have 
configured their forwarding correctly and the application running on your PC 
is not leaking your real IP address.  This VPN-forwarding set up can be used 
to by-pass geo-blocking and is often used for this purpose too.

Regarding your stated use case, it is highly unlikely your bank is offering a 
public VPN connection for its customers, for the purpose of online banking.  
What banks offer to customers is Layer 5 secure connectivity via HTTPS, which 
is configured/managed via the customer's browser and the bank's webserver.  
Since this connection is encrypted, the use of a VPN only offers redundancy 
and could be considered superfluous.

Regarding the security of it all (VPN, SSH, or HTTPS) it is now common 
knowledge that NSA has cracked, compromised and pre-computed[1] a lot of the 
secure keys being used by many network security appliances, if the vendors 
hadn't already offered these to the NSA in the first place[2].  If you are 
using software configured to only use strong ciphers, then you are probably 
quite secure for a little while longer.[3]

YMMV.  :-)


REFERENCES:
===
[1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/10/breaking_diffie.html
[2] 

Re: [gentoo-user] imagemagick / graphicsmagick collision

[Heiko Baums]

Am 12.06.2016 um 12:05 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> My main desktop has been giving me these stupid error for a week now.
> ANd I can't figure out what portage wants to do or how to stop it (other
> than masking graphics magick):
> 
> [blocks B  ] media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]
> ("media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]" is blocking
> media-gfx/imagemagick-6.9.4.7)
> [blocks B  ] media-gfx/imagemagick ("media-gfx/imagemagick" is
> blocking media-gfx/graphicsmagick-1.3.24)

> So here's the question: Why is portage not realising I already have a
> suitable *magick and decides I ought to have the blocker?

Install graphicsmagick with USE="-imagemagick".

If I recall correctly the blocker is because of a file or a feature
collision of media-gfx/imagemagick and
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick].

Re: [gentoo-user] imagemagick / graphicsmagick collision

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:05:47 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> My main desktop has been giving me these stupid error for a week now. 
> ANd I can't figure out what portage wants to do or how to stop it
> (other than masking graphics magick):
> 
> [blocks B  ] media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick] 
> ("media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]" is blocking 
> media-gfx/imagemagick-6.9.4.7)
> [blocks B  ] media-gfx/imagemagick ("media-gfx/imagemagick" is 
> blocking media-gfx/graphicsmagick-1.3.24)

> graphicsmagick is not installed.
> 
> 
> Everything pulling in graphicsmagick is already satisfied by 
> imagemagick[png]:

> So here's the question: Why is portage not realising I already have a 
> suitable *magick and decides I ought to have the blocker?

You've probably already tried these but

does adding --tree give anything more useful?

Does grep magick -r /etc/portage show anything?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Did you hear about the dyslexic devil worshiper?
He sold his soul to Santa!


pgpTFGe2O_oz6.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

[gentoo-user] imagemagick / graphicsmagick collision

[Alan McKinnon]

Hi all,

My main desktop has been giving me these stupid error for a week now. 
ANd I can't figure out what portage wants to do or how to stop it (other 
than masking graphics magick):


[blocks B  ] media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick] 
("media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick]" is blocking 
media-gfx/imagemagick-6.9.4.7)
[blocks B  ] media-gfx/imagemagick ("media-gfx/imagemagick" is 
blocking media-gfx/graphicsmagick-1.3.24)



media-gfx/imagemagick:0

  (media-gfx/imagemagick-6.9.4.7:0/6.9.4.7::gentoo, ebuild scheduled 
for merge) pulled in by

(no parents that aren't satisfied by other packages in this slot)

  (media-gfx/imagemagick-6.9.4.6:0/6.9.4.6::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
>=media-gfx/imagemagick-5.5.7.14:0/6.9.4.6= required by 
(media-video/dvdauthor-0.7.1:0/0::gentoo, installed)
^^^ 



(and 1 more with the same problem)

 * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
 * installed at the same time on the same system.

  (media-gfx/graphicsmagick-1.3.24:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for 
merge) pulled in by
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick,png] required by 
(x11-themes/tango-icon-theme-extras-0.1.0-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed)
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick] required by 
(media-plugins/kipi-plugins-4.14.0:4/4::gentoo, installed)
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick,png] required by 
(x11-themes/tango-icon-theme-0.8.90:0/0::gentoo, installed)



imagemagick is installed:
khamul ~ # eix imagemagick
[U] media-gfx/imagemagick
 Available versions:  6.9.0.3(0/6.9.0.3)^u (~)6.9.1.8(0/6.9.1.8)^u 
(~)6.9.2.10(0/6.9.2.10)^u (~)6.9.3.10(0/6.9.3.10)^u 6.9.4.1(0/6.9.4.1)^u 
(~)6.9.4.5(0/6.9.4.5)^u 6.9.4.6(0/6.9.4.6)^u (~)6.9.4.7(0/6.9.4.7)^u 
[M](~)7.0.1.9(0/7.0.1.9)^u {X autotrace bzip2 corefonts cxx djvu fftw 
fontconfig fpx graphviz hdri jbig jpeg jpeg2k lcms lqr lzma opencl 
openexr openmp pango perl png postscript q32 q64 q8 raw static-libs svg 
test tiff truetype webp wmf xml zlib}
 Installed versions:  6.9.4.6(11:31:21 04/06/2016)(X bzip2 cxx djvu 
fontconfig fpx graphviz hdri jbig jpeg jpeg2k lcms lzma openexr openmp 
pango png postscript q32 q8 raw svg tiff truetype webp wmf xml zlib 
-autotrace -corefonts -fftw -lqr -opencl -perl -q64 -static-libs -test)



graphicsmagick is not installed.


Everything pulling in graphicsmagick is already satisfied by 
imagemagick[png]:


tango-icon-theme-extras-0.1.0-r1.ebuild:
|| ( media-gfx/imagemagick[png?] 
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick,png?] )


kipi-plugins-4.14.0:
videoslideshow? (
|| ( media-gfx/imagemagick 
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick] )
imagemagick? ( || ( media-gfx/imagemagick 
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick] ) )


tango-icon-theme-0.8.90.ebuild
|| ( media-gfx/imagemagick[png?] 
media-gfx/graphicsmagick[imagemagick,png?] )




So here's the question: Why is portage not realising I already have a 
suitable *magick and decides I ought to have the blocker?


Alan