Re: [gentoo-user] Docker installation issues
This is what I have on my machine. I can see the ANSWER SECTION in reversed order localhost ~ # dig registry-1.docker.io ; <<>> DiG 9.16.33 <<>> registry-1.docker.io ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 10324 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 4, ADDITIONAL: 1 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;registry-1.docker.io. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: registry-1.docker.io. 51 IN A 3.216.34.172 registry-1.docker.io. 51 IN A 44.205.64.79 registry-1.docker.io. 51 IN A 34.205.13.154 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: docker.io. 171984 IN NS ns-1168.awsdns-18.org. docker.io. 171984 IN NS ns-1827.awsdns-36.co.uk. docker.io. 171984 IN NS ns-421.awsdns-52.com. docker.io. 171984 IN NS ns-513.awsdns-00.net. ;; Query time: 15 msec ;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1) ;; WHEN: Sun Dec 11 11:06:33 EST 2022 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 237 On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 12:59 AM Andreas Fink wrote: > On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 15:51:17 -0500 > Mansour Al Akeel wrote: > > > Andreas, > > > > Thank you very much. In fact I didn't go that deep yet, and not sure if I > > should. I just found that the url is not accessible even from a browser. > > Googling a bit, tells me there is no clear URL for docker-registry and > > possibly this one is outdated. I will continue looking around to confirm > > what the current default repo should be. If you have any suggestions, > > please let me know. > > > > > > localhost in ~ > > ○ → curl -k -v https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/ > > * Trying 34.228.211.243:443... > > > > * connect to 34.228.211.243 port 443 failed: Connection timed out > > * Failed to connect to registry-1.docker.io port 443 after 129401 ms: > > Couldn't connect to server > > * Closing connection 0 > > curl: (28) Failed to connect to registry-1.docker.io port 443 after > 129401 > > ms: Couldn't connect to server > > > You have a a strange DNS resolution. The IP address 34.227.211.243 > seems wrong. Here is what I see when I look at the DNS records: > andreas@localhost ~$ dig registry-1.docker.io > > ; <<>> DiG 9.16.33 <<>> registry-1.docker.io > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11419 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;registry-1.docker.io. IN A > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > registry-1.docker.io. 13 IN A 34.205.13.154 > registry-1.docker.io. 13 IN A 44.205.64.79 > registry-1.docker.io. 13 IN A 3.216.34.172 > > ;; Query time: 10 msec > ;; SERVER: 79.143.183.251#53(79.143.183.251) > ;; WHEN: Sun Dec 11 06:56:50 CET 2022 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 97 > > I am not sure > Not sure where you get the wrong IP from, but it is a DNS issue. > >
Re: [gentoo-user] Docker installation issues
Andreas,
Thank you very much. In fact I didn't go that deep yet, and not sure if I
should. I just found that the url is not accessible even from a browser.
Googling a bit, tells me there is no clear URL for docker-registry and
possibly this one is outdated. I will continue looking around to confirm
what the current default repo should be. If you have any suggestions,
please let me know.
localhost in ~
○ → curl -k -v https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/
* Trying 34.228.211.243:443...
* connect to 34.228.211.243 port 443 failed: Connection timed out
* Failed to connect to registry-1.docker.io port 443 after 129401 ms:
Couldn't connect to server
* Closing connection 0
curl: (28) Failed to connect to registry-1.docker.io port 443 after 129401
ms: Couldn't connect to server
On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 1:32 PM Andreas Fink wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 12:30:40 -0500
> Mansour Al Akeel wrote:
>
> > I am using Openrc
> >
> > This was my initial /etc/conf.d/docker
> > DOCKER_OPTS="--storage-driver overlay2 --data-root /srv/var/lib/docker"
> >
> > when I try:
> >
> > $ docker pull hello-world
> >
> > Error response from daemon: Get "https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/":
> > net/http: request canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout
> > exceeded while awaiting headers)
> >
> > Trying to troubleshoot:
> >
> > localhost /home/mansour # tail -n 20 /var/log/docker.log
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.473550705-05:00" level=info msg="scheme
> \"unix\"
> > not registered, fallback to default scheme" module=grpc
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.473566413-05:00" level=info
> > msg="ccResolverWrapper: sending update to cc:
> > {[{unix:///run/containerd/containerd.sock 0 }] }"
> > module=grpc
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.473573787-05:00" level=info msg="ClientConn
> > switching balancer to \"pick_first\"" module=grpc
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474530993-05:00" level=info msg="parsed scheme:
> > \"unix\"" module=grpc
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474545549-05:00" level=info msg="scheme
> \"unix\"
> > not registered, fallback to default scheme" module=grpc
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474563752-05:00" level=info
> > msg="ccResolverWrapper: sending update to cc:
> > {[{unix:///run/containerd/containerd.sock 0 }] }"
> > module=grpc
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474571186-05:00" level=info msg="ClientConn
> > switching balancer to \"pick_first\"" module=grpc
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.478908716-05:00" level=warning msg="Your kernel
> > does not support cgroup blkio weight"
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.478927115-05:00" level=warning msg="Your kernel
> > does not support cgroup blkio weight_device"
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.479037897-05:00" level=info msg="Loading
> > containers: start."
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.495743563-05:00" level=info msg="failed to read
> > ipv6 net.ipv6.conf..accept_ra" bridge=docker0
> > syspath=/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/docker0/accept_ra
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.518761943-05:00" level=info msg="Default bridge
> > (docker0) is assigned with an IP address 172.17.0.0/16. Daemon option
> --bip
> > can be used to set a preferred IP address"
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.518886881-05:00" level=info msg="failed to read
> > ipv6 net.ipv6.conf..accept_ra" bridge=docker0
> > syspath=/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/docker0/accept_ra
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.534616741-05:00" level=info msg="Loading
> > containers: done."
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.541080189-05:00" level=info msg="Docker daemon"
> > commit=a89b84221c graphdriver(s)=overlay2 version=20.10.17
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.541122352-05:00" level=info msg="Daemon has
> > completed initialization"
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.549888103-05:00" level=info msg="API listen on
> > /var/run/docker.sock"
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:27.025622231-05:00" level=warning msg="Error
> getting
> > v2 registry: Get \"https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/\": net/http: request
> > canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout exceeded while
> > awaiting headers)"
> > time="2022-12-10T12:17:27.025667054-05:00" level=info msg="Attempting
> next
> > endpoint for pull after error: Get \"https:/
[gentoo-user] Docker installation issues
I am using Openrc
This was my initial /etc/conf.d/docker
DOCKER_OPTS="--storage-driver overlay2 --data-root /srv/var/lib/docker"
when I try:
$ docker pull hello-world
Error response from daemon: Get "https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/":
net/http: request canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout
exceeded while awaiting headers)
Trying to troubleshoot:
localhost /home/mansour # tail -n 20 /var/log/docker.log
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.473550705-05:00" level=info msg="scheme \"unix\"
not registered, fallback to default scheme" module=grpc
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.473566413-05:00" level=info
msg="ccResolverWrapper: sending update to cc:
{[{unix:///run/containerd/containerd.sock 0 }] }"
module=grpc
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.473573787-05:00" level=info msg="ClientConn
switching balancer to \"pick_first\"" module=grpc
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474530993-05:00" level=info msg="parsed scheme:
\"unix\"" module=grpc
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474545549-05:00" level=info msg="scheme \"unix\"
not registered, fallback to default scheme" module=grpc
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474563752-05:00" level=info
msg="ccResolverWrapper: sending update to cc:
{[{unix:///run/containerd/containerd.sock 0 }] }"
module=grpc
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.474571186-05:00" level=info msg="ClientConn
switching balancer to \"pick_first\"" module=grpc
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.478908716-05:00" level=warning msg="Your kernel
does not support cgroup blkio weight"
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.478927115-05:00" level=warning msg="Your kernel
does not support cgroup blkio weight_device"
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.479037897-05:00" level=info msg="Loading
containers: start."
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.495743563-05:00" level=info msg="failed to read
ipv6 net.ipv6.conf..accept_ra" bridge=docker0
syspath=/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/docker0/accept_ra
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.518761943-05:00" level=info msg="Default bridge
(docker0) is assigned with an IP address 172.17.0.0/16. Daemon option --bip
can be used to set a preferred IP address"
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.518886881-05:00" level=info msg="failed to read
ipv6 net.ipv6.conf..accept_ra" bridge=docker0
syspath=/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/docker0/accept_ra
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.534616741-05:00" level=info msg="Loading
containers: done."
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.541080189-05:00" level=info msg="Docker daemon"
commit=a89b84221c graphdriver(s)=overlay2 version=20.10.17
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.541122352-05:00" level=info msg="Daemon has
completed initialization"
time="2022-12-10T12:17:03.549888103-05:00" level=info msg="API listen on
/var/run/docker.sock"
time="2022-12-10T12:17:27.025622231-05:00" level=warning msg="Error getting
v2 registry: Get \"https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/\": net/http: request
canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout exceeded while
awaiting headers)"
time="2022-12-10T12:17:27.025667054-05:00" level=info msg="Attempting next
endpoint for pull after error: Get \"https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/\":
net/http: request canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout
exceeded while awaiting headers)"
time="2022-12-10T12:17:27.026851821-05:00" level=error msg="Handler for
POST /v1.41/images/create returned error: Get \"
https://registry-1.docker.io/v2/\": net/http: request canceled while
waiting for connection (Client.Timeout exceeded while awaiting headers)"
time="2022-12-10T12:15:42.036053086-05:00" level=info msg="loading plugin
\"io.containerd.internal.v1.tracing\"..." type=io.containerd.internal.v1
time="2022-12-10T12:15:42.036068412-05:00" level=error msg="failed to
initialize a tracing processor \"otlp\"" error="no OpenTelemetry endpoint:
skip plugin"
time="2022-12-10T12:15:42.036100189-05:00" level=info msg="loading plugin
\"io.containerd.grpc.v1.cri\"..." type=io.containerd.grpc.v1
time="2022-12-10T12:15:42.036390695-05:00" level=info msg="Start cri plugin
with config {PluginConfig:{ContainerdConfig:{Snapshotter:overlayfs
DefaultRuntimeName:runc DefaultRuntime:{Type: Path: Engine:
PodAnnotations:[] ContainerAnnotations:[] Root: Options:map[]
PrivilegedWithoutHostDevices:false BaseRuntimeSpec: NetworkPluginConfDir:
NetworkPluginMaxConfNum:0} UntrustedWorkloadRuntime:{Type: Path: Engine:
PodAnnotations:[] ContainerAnnotations:[] Root: Options:map[]
PrivilegedWithoutHostDevices:false BaseRuntimeSpec: NetworkPluginConfDir:
NetworkPluginMaxConfNum:0} Runtimes:map[runc:{Type:io.containerd.runc.v2
Path: Engine: PodAnnotations:[] ContainerAnnotations:[] Root:
Options:map[BinaryName: CriuImagePath: CriuPath: CriuWorkPath: IoGid:0
IoUid:0 NoNewKeyring:false NoPivotRoot:false Root: ShimCgroup:
SystemdCgroup:false] PrivilegedWithoutHostDevices:false BaseRuntimeSpec:
NetworkPluginConfDir: NetworkPluginMaxConfNum:0}] NoPivot:false
DisableSnapshotAnnotations:true DiscardUnpackedLayers:false
IgnoreRdtNotEnabledErrors:false}
CniConfig:{NetworkPluginBinDir:/opt/cni/bin
NetworkPluginConfDir:/etc/cni/net.d NetworkPluginMaxConfNum:1
NetworkPluginConfTemplate:
Re: [gentoo-user] Remove rust completely
Cal, like I said, gentoo has always been about choices. I am not blaming anyone for anything. At the end of the day, it is open source, and the work done by the community is highly appreciated. I am sorry it was understood the other way around. The frustration level grows when I have too many build tools that take forever to build, and there's no way around it. And yes, like Grant said, a choice would be to just go with firefox-bin if not rust-bin. Thank you all On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 10:03 PM cal wrote: > > On 5/11/22 18:41, Mansour Al Akeel wrote: > > Miles, > > Thank you for your response. The idea of "getting harder and harder" > > is hard to accept. Gentoo has always been about having choice> Firefox > > requires rust, but is there a way to disable this ? > > There must be another way to let the user decide if they need it or not ! > At the distribution level, sure, but the Gentoo package maintainers > don't necessarily have the authority to control what upstream software > developers are doing. I continue to find it perplexing how many people > on this list hold responsible the Gentoo packaging for the > decision-making of upstream developers. > > Significant core components of Firefox are written in Rust, and have > been for years. Whether or not this is a good thing is in the eyes of > the beholder, but it has nothing to do with the Gentoo packaging -- it's > a Mozilla decision. > > > > And yes, the compile time is one of the factors in not wanting it on > > my system. The second factor is a natural reaction toward feeling that > > I am forced to have it. > > Another reason is the growing collection of compilers and development > > tools and their build time (gcc, bin-utils, llvm, clang ... etc.) and > > now rust. > > > > Firefox itself takes a lot of time to build, and if rust is a must > > have, then maybe it is time for me to look into something else. I know > > there's firefox-bin, and if it doesn't need rust, then maybe it is an > > option. > > > > On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:55 PM Miles Malone > > wrote: > >> > >> If your *reason* for wanting to remove rust is the compile time, bear > >> in mind there is also a rust-bin package these days. There are an > >> increasingly large number of major packages that have rust as a > >> dependency, so it's getting harder and harder to get away from. > >> Obviously anything from the mozilla foundation, but there's a lot of > >> others too. > >> > >> Miles > >> > >> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 10:25, Julien Roy wrote: > >>> > >>> You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust > >>> To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust` > >>> > >>> Julien > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alak...@gmail.com: > >>> > >>> I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update > >>> --deep world from installing it again. > >>> How to do this ? > >>> > >>> > >> > >
Re: [gentoo-user] Remove rust completely
Thank you both Julien and Miles for your help. I got the list I wanted, and I can go ahead with removing rust. On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:25 PM Julien Roy wrote: > > You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust > To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust` > > Julien > > > > May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alak...@gmail.com: > > I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update > --deep world from installing it again. > How to do this ? > >
Re: [gentoo-user] Remove rust completely
Miles, Thank you for your response. The idea of "getting harder and harder" is hard to accept. Gentoo has always been about having choices. Firefox requires rust, but is there a way to disable this ? There must be another way to let the user decide if they need it or not ! And yes, the compile time is one of the factors in not wanting it on my system. The second factor is a natural reaction toward feeling that I am forced to have it. Another reason is the growing collection of compilers and development tools and their build time (gcc, bin-utils, llvm, clang ... etc.) and now rust. Firefox itself takes a lot of time to build, and if rust is a must have, then maybe it is time for me to look into something else. I know there's firefox-bin, and if it doesn't need rust, then maybe it is an option. On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:55 PM Miles Malone wrote: > > If your *reason* for wanting to remove rust is the compile time, bear > in mind there is also a rust-bin package these days. There are an > increasingly large number of major packages that have rust as a > dependency, so it's getting harder and harder to get away from. > Obviously anything from the mozilla foundation, but there's a lot of > others too. > > Miles > > On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 10:25, Julien Roy wrote: > > > > You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust > > To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust` > > > > Julien > > > > > > > > May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alak...@gmail.com: > > > > I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update > > --deep world from installing it again. > > How to do this ? > > > > >
[gentoo-user] Remove rust completely
I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update --deep world from installing it again. How to do this ?
Re: [gentoo-user] tuning desktop appearance for legibility
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, September 5, 2020 1:09 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > Isn't that how the web originally WAS designed? That the web-site sent > content and the browser determined how it was displayed? sort of. it was not very clear and they could've gone either direction. so they had to answer the question: where to go? they thought a bit and concluded: "let's go turing-complete with built-in drm and enough fluff to make viewing a 2D page (e.g. cnn.com) take almost twice as much RAM as that of a 3D game (e.g. quake-iii) [1]. but remove marquee!" even though i dislike how the web ended up being, there is one side effect that i like: - making the web turing-complete served as an experiment to explore what humans want. if web devs didn't have the power to freely do things, we wouldn't have known what do they want, and which idea is good/bad. of course, the web also morphed into other messy things that didn't have any good side effects. such as the drm, and the many information leakages that are so ridiculous they effectively render "authentication" sort of redundant; google may identify us by our browsers' fingerprints and call it a day. as if not enough, goog also graciously give us x-client-data for free [2]. that said, i think the decades old experiment is over, and i think we've seen enough to conclude a few things from this experiment. i suggest that we must deprecate http/js/css/etc, and split the web into two components: (1) page content definition format (PCDF): an efficient binary format that only defines content, with no presentation information. imo this is very doable because, while the content in the web varies drastically, their _type_ is pretty finite (e.g. nav bar, copyright notice, related topics, body, etc). i think if we survey websites, it is easy to see that there is only a small number of content types. the client obtains PCDF documents via https then presents them based on user's viewing preference which is purely defined locally in his computer (the server has no business in knowing any of it). this way navigation bars, copy right notices, etc are placed in a standardized manner for every user based on what he cares most about. this way, we won't need to mess up with user style sheet hacks per website. plus page size will become extremely small, and ridiculously efficient to render thanks to the binary format, and much ore responsive. it would be so fast you'd feel that the page has loaded even before you clicked on the link. (2) application containers: this is the part why the web has javascript support, and this is still a part where is not clear to me if we actually need it. i think this is also very redundant with many alternatives doing basically the same thing, such as docker. maybe this is just "package manager in a glorified chroot"? this side is still unclear to me, and i don't know where it is going. --- [1] https://www.networkworld.com/article/3175605 [2] https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/11/google_personally_identifiable_info/
Re: [gentoo-user] tuning desktop appearance for legibility
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, September 4, 2020 12:06 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > with qutebrowser, i added these in my config.py > file: > > c.aliases['style-none'] = 'config-unset -t content.user_stylesheets' > c.aliases['style-night'] = 'set -t content.user_stylesheets night.css' > c.aliases['style-wiki'] = 'set -t content.user_stylesheets wiki.css' just to add a note against my suggestion: - qutebrowser is based on qt libraries, such as qt-webengine, and hence requires a big compile time. so unless you really like the vim user interface of qutebrowser, you may not like experience of waiting for long compile time of big qt libraries. i'm sure there are people in this list who know good plugins for chrome/firefox that does the same thing (or better). but generally, the idea of using user style sheets for websites, is a neat idea that —imo— worth trying regardless of which browser you use.
Re: [gentoo-user] tuning desktop appearance for legibility
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, September 3, 2020 11:19 PM, John Blinka wrote: > Could you elaborate on this? Don’t know css, but could pick it up. I’m > assuming that web pages already contain css code to direct their > appearance. yes. > So you apparently have some alternate appearance you prefer, > with your own alternate coding, and you somehow tell the browser to use > yours instead. Am I anywhere close to getting the broad outlines of the > process correct? correct. we basically create a custom css file, with colors defined for various html tags/elements as per our preference. we then hand the browser that css file, and tell it "after you load the site, add our custom css, and overwrite whatever the site originally wanted". the way to do this, we add "!important" in our new css. "!important" will make the overwrite. here is an example of such css with "!important": https://github.com/alphapapa/solarized-everything-css/blob/master/css/solarized-dark/solarized-dark-all-sites.css this is how i look at it. maybe some gurus can further elaborate on this with better technical correctness. > If so, how does this intercept and substitute process > work? (I see you provide a link below, but it doesn’t work here...) with firefox/chrome there is "stylish" plugin/add-on. i don't know how it is today, of if there is any better ones. i used to use them several years in the past. you basically select the css you want to use to overwrite site's css. with qutebrowser, i added these in my config.py file: c.aliases['style-none'] = 'config-unset -t content.user_stylesheets' c.aliases['style-night'] = 'set -t content.user_stylesheets night.css' c.aliases['style-wiki'] = 'set -t content.user_stylesheets wiki.css' where "night.css" and "wiki.css" are names of user style sheets that i downloaded from the web here "style-none", "style-night", ..., are nothing but commands in qutebrowser, that you execute by typing ":COMMAND". so if i want to activate night mode, i type ":style-night" without double quotes, then the whole thing becomes dark bg with white fg. of course qutebrowser has tab completion, so i don't need to type full thing. e.g. usually i just type ":sty..." until i pick one i want. of course you can add as many as you want. since different ones work better for different sites. there, i added "style-wiki" that's specifically made for wikipedia. i got it from userstyles.org years ago before it was so slow. > Not promising. The page doesn’t load except for a rotating colorwheel in > the center followed by a 504 gateway timeout. Will try again later. yes. sadly https://userstyles.org/ is now too slow and doomed with excess javascript. it was not like this some years ago. either way, you can obtain those css files by other means (not limited to userstyles.org). e.g. google for them around, or even make your own.
Re: [gentoo-user] tuning desktop appearance for legibility
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, September 3, 2020 6:50 PM, John Blinka wrote: > Hi, Everyone, hello big dawg! quick point: imo the problem of gray texts on white backgrounds, or scrollbars or whatever, that you have, is not related to aging. imo it's rather related to stupid web developers. not even a mutant with infrared vision can use these websites. > 1) How do you cope with this problem? i cope by these: - use pixel-based fonts for everything as much as possible, specially for key apps like: terminal, window manager and browser. they become so much readable. i use "terminus-font" (and previously used "dina") in my urxvt as well as my other apps as much as i can. i notice one of the major problems with fonts is actually not our eyes, but in many cases how fancy fonts blur. i was personally amazed by how i could use much smaller fonts, while maintaining readability, by simply switching to pixel-based fonts, such as terminus. - for my browser, i use custom user css for different modes. i also configured shortcuts for my browser, so that i change these user css files based on which ones work best with the site. generally, i have "night.css" and "wiki.css" that i change by keyboard shortcuts. the "night.css" is very generic and changes background/foreground texts for pretty much 90% of sites properly. this way, i am no longer bound by bad colors chosen by web designers. - i use i3 as window manager, with lots of shortcuts. i also use qutebrowser (a browser with good vim shortcuts). this way, throughout the day, i rarely end up needing to use the mouse to do things. i only use the mouse for ultra quirky websites with fancy javascript links that are not clickable by qutebrowser's shortcuts. so thanks to using keyboard shortcuts, a website can have thin gray scrollbar on a gray background and i don't care. because i scroll by shortcuts, not by bars. in fact, my qutebrowser's interface has scrollbars disabled altogether to use pixels, which i paid dear money for, for real use. > 2) Is there an xfce theme and icon package you > recommend? Or maybe something other than xfce? > I like xfce, and have never been attracted to > integrated desktops like kde and gnome, but if > they’ve got a credible solution, I’m willing to > try. i would suggest try keyboard-based window managers. my 1st suggestion is i3. it's actually perfectly usable for all applications. it's tiling-based, but also has floating functionality, and does a fine job eliminating need of clicking around on tiny things. > 3) Are there lower level ways of tweaking my > current desktop? For example, changing colors > in the 2 examples I gave above from black on > dark gray to black on white? Could that be done > with a little judicious editing of color > settings somewhere, or adjusting colors on an > icon? I don’t know how desktop appearances are > programmed, so I don’t know where on the > spectrum of trivial->apocalyptic this lies. user style sheets. maybe have a look here (i also talked about it above): https://userstyles.org/styles/browse/css or, if you dislike fiddling with these, maybe some use some browser add-ons that offer things like "night mode", or "contrast mode", by which they apply their own custom styling to fix mistakes of web designers. - optional/offtopic: extra text if you have coffee - i think this problem that we have could've been avoided if the web was originally designed to only deliver content, without any power to dictate appearance, so that appearance is 100% a task that a local client should choose. imo this could've been done easily, because websites in the internet follow a finite number of "document classes" (if we call them so). the vast unique changes that web designers make are just pointless. if the web was designed this way, then today we would've had a much happier time of achieving 100% consistent look for all websites optimized for our readability. but too bad, that is not done, so we have to use custom user style sheets which works for most of the time. for people who really want js and fancy rendering, they could use a separate app for their "instant js games". there is absolutely no reason why the entirety of the web has to be so turing-complete just because someone wants to play games.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, August 28, 2020 11:27 PM, antlists wrote: > On 26/08/2020 21:21, Grant Taylor wrote: > > > > so basically total expected number of protocols/layers used in the > > > universe, per second, will be much less if we, on planet earth, use a > > > mail system that uses HTTP* instead of RESXCH_*. > > > > I obviously disagree. > > Exactly. You now need a protocol/layer that says you're running "mail > over http" as opposed to "web". HTTP is tcp/80 that means web. As soon > as you start using it for something (anything) else you've just added > another protocol/layer. you know there is this almost neat concept called url? rumours say that urls can identify various web applications, ranging from websites, rss, games, video, and, guess what? mails. all over http/https/h2 over same tcp 80/443. hard to believe, but this magic is known since early 1990s. are you saying [1] won't work unless we have a new tcp port for it? [1] https://github.com/al-caveman/hillarymail (work in progress, incomplete) i don't want to repeat. re-read this sub-tread, and search for "resource exchange layer". you really don't know what's http*. also not going to respond to you in this sub-thread any more (ignore list is growing...). side note: i seriously suspect that we got GPT-4 bots in the list.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, August 28, 2020 2:35 AM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 09:07:03PM +, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > > anyway i'm out of this. massive waste of time. i > > could've finished server-side hillarymail by it. > > Oh, come on. People on this list have decades of experience managing and > implementing e-mail protocols, and you call their (free) help a "massive waste > of time"? Stop being silly and realise that no initial proposal is completely > flawless. it's not against "people on the list". it's rather for them. because continuing talking to grant (and soon you) is fueling a useless conversation that is effectively vandalising the mailboxes of 100s of people on this list. now you're posting this yet another useless drama message trying to make it sound as if it's against "people on the list" or as if i'm too defensive of hillarymail. so now i'll also stop talking to you in this sub-thread (in addition to grant taylor). nothing personal. we may talk in other sub-threads. it's just that talking to you 2 in these late threads became a fuel to vandalise others' mailboxes. > As I keep urging you, define some goals (and as Grant said, start with > defining > the current problem), finish an initial standards document, and begin writing > a > reference implementation. Or just define some of the core algorithms with > pseudocode. I can almost-guarantee that you will start realising things that > need changing almost immediately upon doing so. nothing new. we already discussed this in the other sub-thread and, as i said there, i am already planning to write an implementation. and i'm already refining the draft. i don't know why you keep repeating non-new things over and over (zero information content). that sub-thread has also became very useless thanks to you and grant for talking about margaret thatcher, LaTeX and other unrelated things. zero actual comments about technical aspects. > Perhaps it is just me with my English sense of over-politeness, but I find > your > conduct to be remarkably audacious (and frankly rude) considering all the time > people are spending to help you. ... And if you don't want this sort of > on-line > discourse, why did you post on the list at all? is your "English" sense of "over-politeness" capable of sensing vandalism caused by having you post texts with low information content, or irrelevant info, to people's inboxes? (rhetorical)
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, August 27, 2020 8:15 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 8/27/20 7:00 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > > but i this way of looking at protocols (despite being common) is wrong. > > Why do you think that it is wrong? > > What is not factually correct about it? it depends on how you use it: - if you use it for what it is made for (making speech about protocols easier), then that's fine. not perfect, but not wrong either. - but if you use it to do some complexity analysis as you did earlier by counting such layers, then, you're wrong. because even though smtp appears as a single layer in such common diagrams, it is functionally 2 layers (one being a resource exchange layer overlapping with http). > > i also disagree with the network layering proposed by osi or the > > other ones commonly published in books. i specially disagree with > > using such layering for studying the complexity of protocols. > > If you're going to make such a statement, which is fine to do, you must > provide information ~> evidence as to why you are doing so and why you > think what you think. see above or previous emails. you're basically abusing such diagrams to perform protocol complexity analysis. i was trying to be indirect by blaming the common protocol layering for leading you to this mistake. what's happening is that you're simply abusing them to do what they are not made for. for details you can re-read my previous email(s) on how smtp is functionally at least 2 layers. > > so i suggest that if we want to study the complexity of messaging > > systems, we better not count SMTP as a single thing (like how it is > > normally done in books and talks), but instead talk about it based on > > the fundamental tasks that it actually does. this way, SMTP becomes > > at least 2 layers: > > I think that I see part of a problem. > > RFC 822 - Standard for the format of ARPA Internet Text Message - is > what defines what I was referring to as the opaque blob sent between > systems. > > I will argue that the content of the opaque blob that SMTP transfers is > independent of SMTP itself. > > > 1. "resource exchange" layer where binaries are made into a single > > giant text file by base64 encoding and then partitioned by rfc822. > > this part overlaps with http* and is much less efficient (rightfully, > > since email had to be backwards compatible as it is critical). > > > > SMTP* does not support binary in any (original) capacity. As such, > email service, which /rides/ /on/ /top/ /of/ SMTP, is where the encoding > ""hack was placed. This /encoding/ and / or /formatting/ is completely > independent of the SMTP protocol used to exchange opaque blobs between > mail servers. i'm amazed how you skipped the real point that i'm making about your incorrect layer-based protocol complexity analysis, and —instead— moved to talk about how email's inefficient binary encoding is due to rfc822 and not rfc821. it's irrelevant at several levels: - doesn't justify your layer-based complexity analysis earlier, either way. - no one discussed which rfc is the reason why smtp is being used for inefficient binary transfer. - the fact that attachments are inefficiently sent over smtp as per rfc822 is by itself due to bad historical design decisions in smtp that lead people to commonly use rfc822 with smtp. the several next paragraphs that you wrote are simply talking about whether smtp (rfc821) was born with a horrible binary encoding, or was it born retarded enough to push people to end up adding rfc822 to it in order to minimise suffering. which is irrelevant at many levels, so i'm skipping over them to save space/time. > > this way, if we ignore the problem of maintaining backwards > > compatibility, > > That is a HUGE if. One that I do not accept at all. You absolutely > MUST have backwards compatibility in some way. Even if that > compatibility is something that acts as an edge gateway between SMTP and > your new method. You MUST have backward compatibility in some way. also irrelevant. yes, that hypothetical "if" statement is indeed "huge". so? it's a hypothetical if statement to show another point: that your complexity analysis by counting layers is wrong. i'm once again amazed how you skipped the main point, and went on to write about how HUGE that hypothetical "if" statement is. (for the record i'm not suggesting to drop smtp's backwards compatibility, nor suggesting it would be easy.) > > then having http* in the "resource exchange" layer would be more > > efficient and simpler as there w
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:21 AM, Grant Taylor wrote: > email emailemail > SMTP SMTP POP3S/IMAPS > A) [1]---(TCP)---[2]---(TCP)---[3]---(TCP)---[4] > > Now what you are proposing: > > email email email > TBD TBD TBD > HTTPS HTTPS HTTPS > A) [1]---(TCP)---[2]---(TCP)---[3]---(TCP)---[4] > > The number of layers has increased from three to four. that's true if "SMTP" is a single layer. which is also how networking engineers including those highly skilled ones in standard bodies commonly commonly talk about protocols (e.g. based on layers of that sort). so i see why it makes sense that you did it this way. but i this way of looking at protocols (despite being common) is wrong. i also disagree with the network layering proposed by osi or the other ones commonly published in books. i specially disagree with using such layering for studying the complexity of protocols. so i suggest that if we want to study the complexity of messaging systems, we better not count SMTP as a single thing (like how it is normally done in books and talks), but instead talk about it based on the fundamental tasks that it actually does. this way, SMTP becomes at least 2 layers: 1. "resource exchange" layer where binaries are made into a single giant text file by base64 encoding and then partitioned by rfc822. this part overlaps with http* and is much less efficient (rightfully, since email had to be backwards compatible as it is critical). 2. "resource use" where the mail server parses such exchanged resources (e.g. email bodies, attachments, etc) and then acts upon them (e.g. forward them, discard them, etc). and so will pop* and imap. this way, if we ignore the problem of maintaining backwards compatibility, then having http* in the "resource exchange" layer would be more efficient and simpler as there will be less protocols doing the "resource exchange" task (instead of having each do its own). i also think that the kind of resource that email exchanges is fundamentally identical to a subset of resources that are natively exchanged in the web. so i think the only reason that smtp/pop/imap have different resource exchange protocols is purely due to backwards compatibility due to how things evolved historically. - i suspect that we actually agree on everything, but speak different languages (possibly due to how books commonly talk about protocols and layering), or assume things beyond what's written. e.g. we agree that: 1. smtp/pop*/imap make the best messaging system today, and is not going away any time soon, thanks to its wide spread. most likely i'll be dead and still have multiple active smtp/imap/pop account. 2. smtp/imap/pop are imperfect and have many shortcomings that are "rightfully" not solved "cleanly" due to historical reasons and its critical nature which imposed on us the constraint of having to maintaining its backwards compatibility. 3. trying new protocols is fine. and is also fine to have sub-communities that use different messaging protocols if they find it more fitting. e.g. i'll probably end up using smtp/imap for talking to people in general, and use hillarymail [1] for talking to a closer nerdy community. [1] https://github.com/al-caveman/hillarymail
Re: [gentoo-user] new mail protocol rfc (was Re: tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?)
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020 9:57 PM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > Why the name "HillaryMail", and why does the logo contain a picture of > Margaret > Thatcher? ;-) very true (re: thatcher). now i cannot unsee the thatcher in the pixel art. i have 2 options: (1) rename protocol into thatchermail. (2) find another pixel art that's actually for hillary. i got the thatcher pixel art from a site that claimed it's hillary [1]. as for the name "hillarymail", nothing against her. it's just that i heard so much about hillary's mails up to a point all mails started to feel as if they belong to her. i also named my passwords manager after nsa [2] for a similar reason (even though i find nsa to be much more trustworthy than my neighbours). > More seriously, do you intend to write a reference implementation, or submit > this as a more formal R.F.C. in the event of it attracting more attention? i intend to eventually write a reference implementation either way (hopefully). specially that this seems to me very easy to implement, yet it seems also powerful. not sure what "formal r.f.c." means. (a) if it means a less ambiguous description, then "yes, but at a natural pace based on demand" (in the spirit of occam's razor). (b) if it means an r.f.c. submitted to isoc/ietf, then "no". i think we should ignore standard bodies for awhile since they seem to be ignoring us. > Furthermore, accusing every SMTP/POP/IMAP user to be an "idiot" may not be the > best way of attaining support; I must admit, I have never seen that in an > initial protocol proposal. imo that's a parsing error on your side. to me "idiot" didn't refer to smtp/pop/imap users. it rather referred to those those who can't use address books or bitcoin. either way i've just replaced "idiots" by "people". "idiot" wasn't justified either way. > I'm also slightly confused regarding the "goals" section. By "easy to > install/use", do you mean "easy" for the people implementing the protocol, or > the people making use of said implementations? "Traditional" SMTP mail clients > have always been pretty straight-forward for me, although the difficulty > involved in implementing an M.T.A. is another story. I find this point rather > equivocal. i mean easy for both, but subject to the constraints specified under "goals" and "non-goals". e.g. if becoming easier would cause the protocol to end up needing to trust a sys admin, then that's not acceptable. but if it is possible to make it easier while still satisfying the constraints (goals/non-goals), then that's a good step forward (perhaps draft one?). -- [1] http://pixelartmaker.com/art/dffec5c6b08b94e [2] https://github.com/al-caveman/nsapass note: trying to remove pexpect dependency as it sometimes causes indefinite waiting. so it is not ready for those who want a solid app yet. that said, i really like it so far. imo after removing "pexpect" it will be perfect.
[gentoo-user] new mail protocol rfc (was Re: tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?)
hi. i request comments on this new mail protocol which i plan to implement some day if things turn out well. here is its zeroth draft: https://github.com/al-caveman/hillarymail rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, August 22, 2020 12:19 AM, Grant Taylor wrote: > > i was thinking (and still) if such relay-by-relay delivery increases > > probability of error by a factor of n (n = number of relays in the > > middle). e.g. probability of accidental silent mail loss is if one, > > or more, accidentally said "yes got it!" but actually didn't. i.e.: > > It definitely won't be a factor of n, where n is the number of relays. why? since relays are in series, and since each relay trusts next relay's "yup got it!", then error rate should add up for every extra step. no?
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, August 22, 2020 12:10 AM, Grant Taylor wrote: > There is some nebulous area around what that actually means. But the > idea is that the receiving server believes, in good faith, that it has > committed the message to persistent storage. Usually this involves > writing the message to disk, probably via a buffered channel, and then > issued system calls to ask the OS to flush the buffer to disk. just to double check i got you right. due to flushing the buffer to disk, this would mean that mail's throughput is limited by disk i/o? or did i misunderstand? i sort of feel it may suffice to only save to disk, and close fd. then let the kernel choose when to actually store it in disk.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, August 21, 2020 11:37 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > SMTP may not be the best, but I do think that it has some merits. > Merits that the previously mentioned HTTP/2 alternative misses. not a major point but just to clarify a thing. i think it's unfair to look at SMTP as a single thing that compares against HTTP*. because while HTTP* is a single-ish thing, SMTP is several things. i.e. SMTP is at least 2 parts: 1. resource exchange layer where people are defined as some kind of URL (e.g. n...@dom.zone) and attachments are base64-ed text balls referred to by some numbers in RFC822. This part overlaps with HTTP*. let's call this "RESXCH_SERVER". 2. the part where it defines how to process the exchanged resources (e.g. safe storage, routing, etc). this part is beyond HTTP*'s scope, and is the "web app" scope. let's call this "RESUSE_SERVER" of course, email still doesn't work with those 2 parts, because you need a way to get mails to your email client, so you end up using POP or IMAP. now, this --itself-- is also two parts: 1. resource exchange layer to send resources to users. which also overlaps with HTTP* (again). let's call this "RESXCH_CLIENT". 2. the part where it defines how the mail client to treat the resources. let's call this "RESUSE_CLIENT". > Why add an additional protocol to the stack? > > TCP / SMTP is two layers. > > TCP / HTTP / $Email-protocol-de-jure is three layers. > > UDP / HTTP / $Email-protocol-de-jusre is three layers. > > Why introduce an additional layer? i disagree. i think this is more like it about the current email system: RESXCH_SERVER / RESUSE_SERVER / RESXCH_CLIENT / RESUSE_CLIENT it's 4 different layers to exchange mail between people. but if we plug HTTP* in the mix, it because only 3 different layers: HTTP* / RESUSE_SERVER / HTTP* / RESUSE_CLIENT and it is even nicer for when HTTP* is plugged, because it is also the protocol used for most of internet's traffic (web browsing). so basically total expected number of protocols/layers used in the universe, per second, will be much less if we, on planet earth, use a mail system that uses HTTP* instead of RESXCH_*.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
thanks. highly appreciate your time. to save
space i'll skip parts where i fully agree
with/happily-learned.
(e.g. loop detection; good reminder, i wasn't
thinking about it. plus didn't know of acronyms
DSN, MDNs, etc; nice keywords for further
googing).
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, August 21, 2020 8:59 PM, Grant Taylor
wrote:
> On 8/20/20 7:39 PM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
>
> > 1. receipt by final mail server (mandatory).
> >
>
> You're missing the point that each and every single server along the
> path between the original submission server and the final destination
> server is on the hook for delivery of the message -or- notification of
> it's failure back to the purported sender address. So "final mail
> server" is not sufficient.
i was thinking (and still) if such relay-by-relay
delivery increases probability of error by a
factor of n (n = number of relays in the middle).
e.g. probability of accidental silent mail loss is
if one, or more, accidentally said "yes got it!"
but actually didn't. i.e.:
Pr(silent loss) =
sum_{k=1}^n
{n choose k}
* Pr(mistake)**k
* Pr(no mistake)**{n-k}
n = number of relays in the middle.
* = mult.
** = exponent.
i wonder if it would be better if only the entry
relay aims at the confirmation from the terminal
server? this way we won't need to assume that
relays in the middle are honouring their guarantees,
hence the probability above would be smaller since
k is limited up to 2 despite n's growth.
> Of course, there are servers that go against the RFC "MUST" directives
> and either don't safely commit messages to disk /before/ saying
> "Okay..." and / or don't deliver failure messages.
care to point part of the rfc that defines "safe"
commit to disk? e.g. how far does the rfc expect
us to go? should we execute `sync`'s equivalent
to ensure that data is actually written on disk
and is not in operating system's file system write
buffer?
> Signing will be of somewhat limited value as it will quite likely be
> subject to the same problem that DMARC / ARC suffer from now. Mail
> servers can sign what they receive. But in doing so, they alter what is
> sent to include their signature. As such, the data that the next server
> receives is different. The real problem is working backwards. Down
> stream servers don't have a reliable way to undo what upstream servers
> have done to be able to get back to the original message to validate
> signatures.
onion signatures? e.g. message is wrapped around
several layers of signatures for every relay in
the path?
> > this way we can have group-level rules.
>
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by group-level rules in this context.
e.g. whitelisting, tagging, spam filtration,
prioritizing, etc, based on entities that
onion-signed the message.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, August 21, 2020 4:28 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > You're re-inventing the wheel. yes, i do consider re-inventing octagonal wheels. though this wasn't my point here. here, i'm just "asking" to see what makes the "safely stored" guarantee. perhaps i should've asked more directly (and yes, i know these are not new features). > > 1. receipt by final mail server (mandatory). > > > > This is part of SMTP already, in that each server (post office) > acknowledges that the message has been received AND SAFELY STORED. > Without that last guarantee, "receipt by the server" isn't worth > diddley-squat. got any specific definition of what makes a storage "guaranteed"? e.g. what kind of tests does the mail server do in order to say "yup, i can now guarantee this is stored safely!"? > > the job of a relay would be to optionally add some > > metadata (e.g. maybe describing sender's role) and > > sign the whole thing (e.g. by company's private > > key). this way we can have group-level rules. > > Except that SMTP allows for the fact that a message may (or may not) > pass through several post-offices on the way. The old internet thing of > "don't assume any computer will survive a nuclear attack - take whatever > route you can find ..." so there is no guarantee that a relay going in > one direction will even see a message going back in the other. so? not sure how this relates to what i said. i guess you think that i meant that a relay should be mandatory? or maybe i'm misunderstanding your point? (yes, a relay doesn't have to be used. i'm just describing some uses of relays that i think make sense. (1) indicate trust hierarchy, (2) offload mail delivery so that i can close my laptop and let the relay have fun with the retries. not sure there is any other use. anyone?)
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:41 AM, antlists wrote: > Will that python script allow for the situation that the message is > received, but the message was NOT safely stored for onwards transmission > before the receiver crashed, and as such the message has not been > SUCCESSFULLY received? > > SMTP has lots of things specifically meant to ensure messages survive > the internet jungle on their journey ... thanks for the point. would it suffice if we have these notifications: 1. receipt by final mail server (mandatory). 2. receipt by end user(s) (optional). 3. opening by end user(s) (optional). ? (1) is required by the server, else mail will be retransmitted from source relay(s) (or client if done directly). (2) is optional by final server, (3) is optional by end user's client. the job of a relay would be to optionally add some metadata (e.g. maybe describing sender's role) and sign the whole thing (e.g. by company's private key). this way we can have group-level rules.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 7:10 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > Per protocol specification, SMTP is EXTREMELY robust. > > It will retry delivery, nominally once an hour, for up to five (or > seven) days. That's 120-168 delivery attempts. > > Further, SMTP implementations MUST (RFC sense of the word) deliver a > notification back to the sender if the implementation was unable to > delivery a message. this queue re-transmission, and failure notification, can be done with a small python script.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 12:25 PM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > I don't think you fully understand Grant's point. Whilst HTTP(/2) may be more > featureful for serving web pages, it makes absolutely no sense to use for > anything but. Protocol age absolutely is not irrelevant: SMTP has been > ubiquitous in mail transportation for many years, and thus, every single mail > client supports it pretty close to the RFC. Moreover, as Grant mentioned in > the > previous message, it is the only reliable method of reliably transferring > messages to and fro systems which, in most cases, differ quite vastly in every > element except their understanding of SMTP. there are two aspects: (1) backwards compatibility: sure, email is better if the goal is to deal with a large audience. but this is not necessarily my goal because i don't talk to everyone. and for rare cases when i need to send an archaic email, i can just open gmail.com, protonmail.com, etc, and use their web gui. (2) technically irrespective of backwards compatibility: there is no doubt that a http/2-based mail system will be much more efficient than smtp's archaic format where all attachments are base64-ed into giant mono text balls. the only reason we're using smtp's archaic text base64-ed balls is pure history. but, fundamentally, contents of emails are in the same scope as of web pages. so emails' contents is not alien to http/2. the only reason we don't have http/2-based mail is pure history, and that people resist change. > Interoperability is the entire point of protocol standardisation in the first > place, and if you're going to suggest a revision, or complete overhaul, of a > standard as well-understood as SMTP, you need to provide extremely compelling > evidence which supports your proposed replacement. So far, you haven't done > that. SMTP can be tricky and unwieldy to configure on certain (most) > implementations, but that does not indicate a lack of features. The complete > opposite, in fact. but i'm not proposing a standard for "everyone". it's about my case of using cheap vps with untrusty admins. so i don't "need" to present any compelling evidence, because i don't care about the approval of these standardization organizations. worst case scenario i can shove an smtp-client leg into gmail and call it a day, and thrive with only 1 listening tcp port (for https). in fact, if possible, even if we wanted to go as far as changing a protocol, we better create our own standards free from them, specially with the likes of w3c which have absolutely no respect for us (they slapped us with drm despite our cries, simply because netflex/google paid enough). currently we're being treated like sheep and get told which disgusting protocols to use.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
> So you want to change from a ubiquitous protocol that is supported by > many Many MANY devices to niche protocol that has a non-trivial > installation / configuration curve. 1st half is "yes", 2nd half is "no" (mine is simpler). > > then, verify messages by mailing their supplied email a confirmation > > message. > > And then you want to take what people send you, turn around and send > unsolicited messages based on it — this is the icing on the cake — using > the protocol that you are trying to avoid. > > It's only a matter of time before someone uses your Tor hidden service > as a vector to send spam. — Joe Job comes to mind. this was just a quick thought. maybe adding a captcha is enough in the contact-us html submission form. this is not a permanent element. just a temporary solution to get messages from the lagging wold. > > redundant as in containing concepts already done in other protocols, > > so smtp has many re-invented wheels that are already invented in > > existing protocols. > > Please elaborate. Please be careful to provide information about /when/ > the protocols that SMTP is supposedly redundant of were developed. > > I suspect that you will quickly find that SMTP predates the protocols > that you are stating it's redundant of. I further suspect that you will > find that SMTP predates them by 10, or more likely 20, if not 30 years. > > Here's a hint. SMTP was ~82. HTTP (1.0) was ~89. We couldn't post > thing in HTTP 1.0. HTTP 2.0 was ~15. sure, smtp is older, but protocol age is irrelevant. right now http/2 is more developed and much more efficient (e.g. compressed binary, pipelining, single connection multiplexing, encryption by default). even http1.4 was a more efficient replacement. > > imo, smtp should be a much-higher level protocol defined purely on > > top of how dns and http/2. > > How do you get any higher layer than the application layer? it's a matter of definition. if we define http/2 as an application layer protocol, and we define "depends on" as "on layer below", then mail is necessarily above the application layer. anyway, this whole osi/internet model is not accurate and many protocols ignore it. i propose this model (fireball model?): 6. app layer(usual drill..) 5. resource layer (exch. by res.; http/2) 4. socket layer (socke ids; tcp/udp/etc ports) 3. end-to-end layer (inter-lan; e.g. ip) 2. hop layer(intra-lan; e.g. mac addr.) 1. physical layer (electromagnetic fluctuations) http/2 is morphing into general "resource layer" where data is exchanged between difference resources. email is just a special case of this inter-resource communication where some resources are humans. > > e.g. for mail submission, there is no need for a separate > > application-layer protocol as we can simply use http/2. because the > > concept of mail submission is a special case of data submission, > > which is already in http/2. > > HTTP /now/ has a way to submit data. HTTP didn't exist when SMTP was > developed. Further, HTTP didn't have the ability to submit data for a > while. true, but that's history. now http/2 is better for resource exchange than smtp. > If you look at multiple layers of the network stack, HTTP and SMTP are > both at the application layer. Now you are suggesting moving equal > peers so that mail is subservient of / dependent on web? yes. > Does HTTP or the web servers have the ability to queue messages to send > between systems? How many web servers handle routing of incoming > messages to send to other servers? How dynamic is this web server > configuration to allow servers for two people who have never exchanged > email to do so? > > This routing, queuing, and many more features are baked into the email > ecosystem. Features that I find decidedly lacking in the web ecosystem. of course. it's called web application; it can do all fancy queueing and routing you want. basically the only part of current "email system" that is not redundant is the part where it is a "mail web app". every other part (e.g. protocol for data exchange) is redundant and inferior to what exists (e.g. http/2). i am considering to make an uwsgi ptyhon script for my personal use. there is absolutely nothing really challenging about the concept of mail routing and queueing. > > here is a more complete example of what i mean: > > > > 1. we lookup MX records to identify smtp servers to submit mails to. > > 2. from the response to that lookup we get a domain name, say, > > mail.dom.com. > > #1 and 2 are par for what we have today. No improvement. yes. dns is ok for now. i never said dns is redundant. > > 3. then, the standard defines a http/2 request format to submit > > the mail. > > Given how things never die on the Internet, you're going to need both > SMTP /and/ HTTP /on/ /the/ /email/ /server/ to be able to send & receive > email with people on the Internet. no, but that's how most of today's mail servers are. e.g. they
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:21 PM, Remco Rijnders wrote: > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 07:00:52AM +, Caveman wrote in > > > yes. smtp is nasty, and also redundant. > > How is it redundant? redundant as in containing concepts already done in other protocols, so smtp has many re-invented wheels that are already invented in existing protocols. basically smtp, as an application-layer protocol, is needless. imo, smtp should be a much-higher level protocol defined purely on top of how dns and http/2. e.g. for mail submission, there is no need for a separate application-layer protocol as we can simply use http/2. because the concept of mail submission is a special case of data submission, which is already in http/2. here is a more complete example of what i mean: 1. we lookup MX records to identify smtp servers to submit mails to. 2. from the response to that lookup we get a domain name, say, mail.dom.com. 3. then, the standard defines a http/2 request format to submit the mail. an example of step (3) could be this: https://mail.dom.com/from=...=...=...\ =...=...=...=...\ =... i don't know how http/2 works. do they have POST requests? if so maybe fields attach1, attach2, ..., attachn can be submitted as file uploads using POST. further, if we modify steps (1) and (2), we can generalise this concept into tor services. e.g. an email address simply becomes an onion address. e.g. if vagzgdrh747aei0q.onion is the hidden service address of your mail server, then your email address could be written as (for convenience): remco@vagzgdrh747aei0q.onion and when a "mail" client tries to submit you an email, it submits it by this url: https://vagzgdrh747aei0q.onion/to=remco&...etc. then, in order to authenticate a source, we simply use public-private keys to sign messages. basically, our public keys become our user identifiers. this will also solve the problem of the case when an onion address changes. i call this protocol mailball for the purpose of making speech this mail thread a bit easier. of course, we can pick better names, and refine the mechanics. > > makes me wonder if i should just create me a > > hidden tor service that is just a normal website, > > and give its url to people (instead of email) who > > want to message me by telling them ``submit your > > messages to me''. then, verify messages by > > mailing their supplied email a confirmation > > message. > > Ah, the "Don't spam us, we'll spam you approach?" for people who use the deprecated smtp protocol, yes, it will be "don't spam us, we'll spam you". however, that's not our fault. they are using a deprecated protocol, and we are just kind enough to allow them an opportunity to talk to us over the superior mailball protocol. basically, they are using deprecated identifiers (email ids) instead of public keys, and we're kind enough to give them a temporary api so that we confirm their emails. on the other hand, people who use mailball will not have this problem. why? because ids are public keys anyway, and their messages are signed by their private keys (the usual drill, won't insult your intelligence).
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, August 17, 2020 8:00 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 8/16/20 10:50 PM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > 3. vps admin is not trusty and their sys admin may read my emails, > > and laugh at me! > > Do you have any (anecdotal) evidence that this has actually happened? not specifically with a mail provider, but with other i.t. services, yes. and since they're all humans, then the simplest model that explains this is that this is about humans in general, and same past experience would extend to mail provider's admins. > Well, seeing as how you're talking about email, the biggest elephant in > the room is SMTP's default of unencrypted communications path. It's > realtively easy to add support for encryption, but more systems than I'm > comfortable with don't avail themselves of the optional encryption for > some reason. Sure, it's possible to configure many receiving SMTP > servesr to require it from specific sending systems and / or sending > domains. But this is effort you have to expend to enact these restrictions. yes. smtp is nasty, and also redundant. makes me wonder if i should just create me a hidden tor service that is just a normal website, and give its url to people (instead of email) who want to message me by telling them ``submit your messages to me''. then, verify messages by mailing their supplied email a confirmation message.
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, August 17, 2020 3:48 PM, Jarry wrote: > Rent VPS and be your own admin. But running properly configured > mail-server is not so easy. Setting up postfix/exim/sendmail > is just a beginning. If you mean it seriously and do not want > your IP to land on blacklists (and you vps suspended), there is > much more to do, i.e. spf, dkim, dmarc, dnssec, etc... would i get blacklisted for simply not using spf/dkim/etc? even if no other user is using the mail service other than me and i'm not mass mailing?
Re: [gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, August 17, 2020 3:33 PM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > How many concurrent users will be connected to the mail server? How much > traffic > will the S.M.T.P. server receive (read: how many e-mails arrive on a daily > basis)? If you really don't trust your V.P.S. provider, and your mail server > is > small-ish, you could just skip all the trust issues and buy a cheap Raspberry > Pi > for £20 or so. 1 user (me). about 2 real daily mails. maybe 10 in peak times. that, plus gentoo's users list, plus spam. but i don't see much spammers in protonmail's spambox. so i guess my spam is low. > Running a mail server over a domestic connection presents some issues, such as > dynamic I.P. ranges appearing in the Spamhaus blocklist, or some > tyrannicalesque > I.S.P.s blocking outbound port 25 (S.M.T.P. submission port), but it is > possible > to have a smooth, self-administered mail server, providing you can put in the > time and effort. I have been doing it myself for a few years with Courier and > Postfix (although I wouldn't recommend Courier; Dovecot is far superior). > > What do you think? interesting. do you have reverse ptr records for your domain name pointing to your home's ip? did you pay extra fees for this ptr to your isp? i wonder if price-wise, and uptime-wise, that would beat a cheap vps at 20 bucks/year.
Re: [gentoo-user]
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, August 17, 2020 8:54 PM, Dale wrote: > > If you visit this site, it doesn't allow adblock to be in use. I can't tell > if it has the actual list or not. Sites that don't like my adblock blocking > their annoying ads that I will never click on gets a tab closure. I've never > once clicked on a ad or any sponsored link even in google search results. > Link may work for you, may not. > > https://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-prism-keywords-for-domestic-spying-2013-6 > > These sites I can see the list. The more obvious ones are further down the > list. > > https://www.sovereignman.com/lifestyle-design/uncle-sam-admits-monitoring-you-for-these-377-words-6832/ > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvencohen/2012/05/26/department-of-homeland-security-forced-to-release-list-of-keywords-used-to-monitor-social-networking-sites/ i like how terrorists speak only english. rgrds, cm
[gentoo-user] tips on running a mail server in a cheap vps provider run but not-so-trusty admins?
hi. context: 1. tinfoil hat is on. 2. i feel disrespected when someone does things to my stuff without getting my approval. 3. vps admin is not trusty and their sys admin may read my emails, and laugh at me! 4. whole thing is not worth much money. so not welling to pay more than the price of a cheap vps. moving to dedicated hardware for me is not worth it. my goal is to make it annoying enough that cheap-vps's admins find it a bad idea for them to allocate their time to mingle with my stuff. thoughts on how to maximally satisfy these requirements? rgrds, cm.
[gentoo-user] which bitcoin app to use?
hi - which btc app to use? one in portage? or one in the overlay `bitcoin'? and why? rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, August 1, 2020 5:49 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > > This is not a GUI > > > > xterm is GUI. you don't need to click on gtk/qt > > widgets to access details of password entries. > > gtk/qt is a massive overkill. > > Please check the meaning of " GUI " and try to answer my statement again. xterm/urxvt is a gui. it can render images too. e.g. seen ranger? but nitpick aside, i know what you want. you want an app that uses gtk or qt libraries, so that you get some buttons to click on with your mouse, and menus and scrollbars to drag around — but why would you seek to do this to yourself? very sadistic. if you check the latest version in this dev branch (wip, code will improve next month): https://github.com/Al-Caveman/nsapass/tree/space-cephalopod you'll find a neat interactive feature and a search feature that allows you to, say, retrieve passwords really fast. e.g. `nsapass get c p` would equate `nsapass get caveman protonmail` (if c p makes it unique). > > > This makes portability a problem. Exactly why keepass (and clones) are > > > used more. > > > > compatibility with keepassxc is extremely > > overrated. it's easy to port nsapass to > > windows/apple (may even work out of the box, > > didn't try). > > Compatibility with "keepass" (keepassxc is already a different tool/clone) is > important and makes it simpler to use the same database on different > environments. > You might be happy with a simplistic database that only stores a few > passwords. I tend to deal with passwords that are shared within teams because > the hardware involved only supports a single account. This makes tools like > keepass important. curious, any standardized or special hardware that works with keepass? e.g. some kind of dual factor authentication? or maybe USB sticks that give you some physical button to, mechanically, select if the passwords inside should be read? anything else interesting? about `few passwords'. i'm also curious why do you think so? e.g. here is a quick test with an outrageously unrealistic test of 1 million key entries in nsapass: - 3.9 seconds for scrypt to decrypt the file. for a good reason that makes it more secure than keepass's aes 256-bit enc. - 2.6 seconds for python's json to parse the file (parsing 1 mil entries). - everything else was instantaneous after that (just a dictionary lookup). about your team, not sure about your point. you said that nsapass is simplistic. so i guess this means that keepass offers you something more? or is it just that you have more people already using it and too lazy to migrate? > > > Nice, a full detailed list of every single change to your passwords :) > > > > no. how do you backup your passwords file? > > dropbox? flash disk? it's up to you. this is > > unrelated to the passwords manager. > > Actually, the more copies with changes to your passwords there are, the easier > it will be to guess your passwords. i never denied this. nothing in nsapass that makes you copy passwords with changes. i don't know where you got this. i personally use git to copy my passwords database around, but this -obviously- has nothing to do with nsapass. > > > The likes of NSA don't actually care about your (dis)approval. > > > > no one does. not unique to nsa. people > > exaggerate nsa as if they are any better. > > tbh, nsa is even better than most of our > > neighbours. if our phones fall in the hands of > > our neighbours, next day most people will find > > themselves in pornhub. but nsa can get it all, > > and yet they still didn't leak it to pornhub (at > > least not as much). > > No, they leak it to the press and wikileaks. leakers like snowden? doesn't media call them ``heros''? see, NSA is made of decent people. they either keep our secrets better than our neighbours do, or, when they leak it, they do so for a good cause and become ``heros''. i personally trust NSA much better than my trust to my neighbours (no comparision). nothing personal against my neighbours, decent people, but they are less educated than NSA's staff. it's just a matter of honesty to state that media's stance against NSA is unfair imo. even though this statement will probably harm the reputation of nsapass as i'm its dev and i'm flirting NSA (not that it matters though).
Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Sunday, July 19, 2020 6:57 PM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > [I have stripped all mention of capitalisation, as it is off-topic here. > However, a seeming lack of competence in English will lead people to believe > that the incompetence also leaks into the code. This is especially true when > this lack of writing competence is intentional.] stripped, however not stripped? while there might be a correlation between spelling/grammar errors and bugs in software, it does not matter here at all because: (1) a passwords manager is too critical to have its reliability judged by the mere spellin/grammar of its dev. (2) nsapass has less than 500 lines of code. super easy to read yourself. you don't need to read my README.md file to deduce anything. in fact, the nsapass itself is probably about the size of the README.md file. > Just because something is not strongly typed and does not perform automatic > garbage-collection (which is very insecure for something like a password- > manager anyway), does not mean it is reinventing any wheels. It just forces > people to design their programs properly; weak typing is the absolute worst > feature of all these modern languages. strawman. > > and keepassxc is full of segfaults [1] > > [1] https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/issues?q=segfault > > There are no open issues regarding segmentation violations. There may have > been > at some point, but that is why I keep mentioned that the project is matured. i didn't say "open", irrelevant. latest segfaults are a few days old only. one of the recent segfaults is closed without being resolved, simply because they couldn't reproduce it. > Occam's Razor does not always apply. For example, forcing people to enter > their > plain-text passwords on the command-line may be simpler than polling stdin, > but, > surprisingly, it is not the best solution. occam's razor always applies. you're ignoring the fact that occam's razor doesn't blindly seek simplicity, but rather also looks at assumptions' "utility". the mathematical representation of it says: every assumption has a positive probability of error, so unless it increases accuracy/utility of the model, don't use extra assumptions. but if it does increase the utility, then surely use it. you may read the article on wiki for more info. > You are now againstall languages which run as native code (require a compiler > or linker/build system) ? Just because you did not personally write the Python > interpreter does not make it non-existent, and thus simple. If you want to > write > something minimalistic and ultra-simple, why don't you use Assembly language > (semi-serious suggestion) ? I assure you, that is far simpler and lightweight > than invoking Python for every run ! no, not against. i don't know how are you getting these ideas. i literally told you cases where c/c++ is good. python has higher dev-time than keepassxcs. yes, python is in c, but much higher dev-time + auditing + bug fixes. less silly bugs. why not assembly? obviously for the same reason why not c/c++: (1) to keep line count small for convenient auditing, and (2) to avoid funny memory bugs. > Executing ./nsapass without any arguments takes around 0.054 seconds, whereas > my > euses implementation (written in C) takes 0.002 seconds to open, buffer, > search, > and close tens of multi-thousand-line USE-flag description files, in addition > to > parsing a few INI files. Please, do not attack compiled languages too much; > they > are not going anywhere for a long time. ricing doesn't matter for a passwords manager. this is not a low-latency high-bandwidth case. the delay is mainly from the user. for a pwords manager you mostly need (1) and (2) above (not ricing). > I think in virtually every case, well-designed code written in native > languages > have an extreme performance benefit. The one counterexample might be Java (not > interpreted; JIT'd on-the-fly), as that has matured over such a long period of > time [1]. except when "performance" is defined by (1) and (2). > It's such a general-purpose language, it's not really "overkill" for anything. > Maybe an operating system or device driver, yes, but not a userspace QT > application ! You seem to be under the misguided impression that C and C++ are > low-level languages ? doesn't matter, they fail at (1) and (2). > You are capitalising (no pun intended) on this issue of memory-management, but > aside from a search for the term "segfault" on the KeePassXC GitHub issues > page, > you have no evidence to suggest that your code improves upon these > non-existent > problems. don't ignore the fact that the segfaults are pretty recent, and some of which is closed without solving :) > It is possible to write code in C/C++ which does not have memory > violations; you just need to know what you're accessing is valid, and perform > proper testing to make sure. strawman.
Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, July 18, 2020 11:13 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote: > This is not a GUI xterm is GUI. you don't need to click on gtk/qt widgets to access details of password entries. gtk/qt is a massive overkill. > This makes portability a problem. Exactly why keepass (and clones) are used > more. compatibility with keepassxc is extremely overrated. it's easy to port nsapass to windows/apple (may even work out of the box, didn't try). > Nice, a full detailed list of every single change to your passwords :) no. how do you backup your passwords file? dropbox? flash disk? it's up to you. this is unrelated to the passwords manager. it's just that i personally use git. that's all. some use dropbox, and it's the same in this regard: none of them see passwords. they only get encrypted passwords. i put encrypted psswords database in a git server. it's my personal choice. you don't have to do it. the git server sees random bytes only. and thanks to scrypt, even if i don't do anything, but merely encrypt/decypt with the same key, the encrypted file will still look totally different. > The likes of NSA don't actually care about your (dis)approval. no one does. not unique to nsa. people exaggerate nsa as if they are any better. tbh, nsa is even better than most of our neighbours. if our phones fall in the hands of our neighbours, next day most people will find themselves in pornhub. but nsa can get it all, and yet they still didn't leak it to pornhub (at least not as much).
Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, July 18, 2020 10:28 PM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > This sociological position may be valid, but please understand that I was not > suggesting you "don't insult" them. But placing a picture of a shit next to > their project name based solely on the fact it is written in C++ instead of > Python, does not cast your project (or you) in the greatest of lights. i don't see the problem. the unicode consortium says the pile of sh*t is a normal character. alternatively, i can replace the sh*t character by a blown off leg, alongside the bjarne stroustrup quote about c++. > I'm not sure why you're so against C++ ? It is certainly not perfect, as it > allows inherently poorly written code (Java, for example, tries to enforce > good > coding styles a bit more), but that is no reason to (quite literally) shit on > any project/programmers using it. Having a quick review of the KeePassXC code- > base, I can say with reasonable confidence, that it is written to a very > professional standard. i'm not universally against c++, but i'm against it for a passwords manager, because it needlessly re-invents many wheels including memory management which is already done in other languages, such as python. and a passwords manager is too critical to risk re-inventing such wheels. and keepassxc is full of segfaults [1] [1] https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/issues?q=segfault > That's OK. I have no problem with that, aside from not personally > understanding > it myself. However, the complete lack of capital letters does make your > project > look juvenile. thanks. that's a feature. it's by design. i hope my writing style functions as repellent of superficial ppl. > However, I do have a rather significant issue with you calling those you dare > to > use the English language correctly "superficial" and "arrogant". i didn't say that. people are free to waste their time by capitalizing what they want. people are also free to advise others on wat they think is better. but what i'm saying is different: if someone rejects my app simply because i don't capetalize in my writings in README.md, then nothx don't use my app. > I'm not going > to say too much here, as I don't want to get into an argument over something > completely off-topic, but I strongly advise that you stop confusing "cool, > quirky, and different" with "semantically incorrect". you already did, but thx for advise. > The best way to make your project stand out is to make it of exceptionally > quality, usability, and stability. You really don't want the complete lack of > spelling and grammar to be your entire project's unique claim-to-fame. it's already more stable than keepassxc. spelling of README.md is unrelated. nsapass is slightly over 400 lines of py code. super easy to audit. one doesn't need to guess code reliability based on my spelling in README.md. alternatively, if my spelling in README.md is too scary/offensive, people are free to use the thousands of c++ lines of keepassxc code and segfault away from me. > The fact that a projecthas a build utility is a really, really poor vector of > attack. If the build utility did not work, or was a virus, or anything other > than a good build utility, then you may use that to discredit the > project.However, criticising the mere existence of a few Makefiles and > automated testing > scripts is a monumentally BAD idea. true, but that's not my point. my point is the increased complexity by itself, from an occam-razorian point of view. this is a logical consequence that follows once you accept that every assumption has a positive probability of error, by definition. then fancier build setup is effectively equivalent to requiring more assumptions. > It turns out that they exist to aid the main code-base. true, their main code-base system needs extra assumptions in order to operate. > C and C++ are certainly double-edged swords; I've been writing code in C > since I > was about twelve years of age. Fortunately, the nice thing about a > double-edged > sword is that one of the "edges" work in your favour. If you (over > two-hundred- > and-thirty individual contributors) work at ensuring the quality of a project > over a period of seven years, in whatever language, it's very likely that few > legs are to be lost. true. in some apps c/c++ is superior thanks to performance or lower level system management. > You're essentially saying that all C++ code is of poor quality. Do you > honestly > think that such an observation is correct ? no. thats a strawman. you're ignoring the context: passwords manager. i'm sayin, c++ is an overkill for a passwords manager. feel free to use c++ for lower level things like a games engine that demands high performance, in fact i'd recommend c/c++ for some cases, such as a gaming engine, or stuff that need high throughput/low latency. but c++ for a passwords manager? nothx, i don't want to risk
Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, July 17, 2020 8:56 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote: > Looks nice. Except for: > I like having a GUI where I can easily access the different account details. how about: `nsapass list | less` ? (thinking to let nsapass automatically pipe list's output to `less`) > Does it use Keepass databases? Or something you designed yourself? myself. it's just an encrypted json file. you can decrypt it by `scrypt dec path/to/db.enc` to see how stupidly simple it is. (to create it, use `nsapass gen 25 printable` to generate an entry quickly, or `nsapass add UNAME PWORD NOTE` for a manual approach). > Can it work with password database files that are stored on a central server > without having to change the code? no. i personally sync my passwords file with git (as i also sync my configs). > A password database with NSA in the name does not inspire confidence. it's like making a bear gag. if you run away from bear, bear may chase you. but instead if you stand, and put your fist in bear's mouth, the bear gags and runs away. i wonder if this would make nsa gag and run away? on the other hand, but if it was named BlockchainedTorPass, they would be probably sniffing at it day long. the name is a joke though. i thought it is funny (someone suggested it to me and i liked it). just to clarify, i am not even against nsa. imo nsa people are actually good guys that try to audit suspects to ensure longer stability and peace, and it's disappointing that they get a bad image in media. that said, i just like having a personal space that its boundaries are respected. if anyone wants my data, i want him to take it with my approval.
Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, July 17, 2020 2:32 PM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > I haven't downloaded it yet, but I think you should rephrase the README on the > GitHub page. Instead of constantly explaining the reasons you dislike > KeePassXC > in particular, it would be more attractive to explain the merits of your own > program, and why people---who may have never used any > password-manager---should > download NSAPass. There are also quite a few spelling and grammar mistakes, > which I suggest you fix before tagging the next release. thanks. yeah, i should add a section probably for totally new people. but not sure i have the time for this, which is why i also communicated my ideas in the most efficient way my brain can produce. i also agree with you that not expressing dislike towards an app may help me make new friends, because unfortunately we live in a time where people get triggered by almost anything. but imo there is another side to it: if we let fear take from us our right to express dislike towards an ``app'' then next generation people will have more buggy software. do we want our children, or grand children, to have more bugs? 1st step starts here! i also don't get why one shouldn't express his dislike towards an ``app''. ``don't insult my app'' is now a thing? imo if ppl keep advancing towards this direction, we'll end up getting detached from reality, and live in an abstract space where everyone is 100% happy despite the fact being 100% out of touch with reality (ultimately). > It is not my place to criticise your opposition to capital letters (although I > do not personally understand it myself), but if you want to garner a serious a > serious user-base, you will need to write your README and code comments in a > more professional manner. Currently, users and contributors might be repelled. that's fine. i made this app to address a requirement of mine, then shared it in case it helps others. if someone doesn't want to use my app that's fine. i'd still use it regardless. if someone is too superficial/arrogant and picks on unrelated issues (e.g. use of capitals), then tbh i may actually prefer him to not use my app. so in a sense not using capitals is a feature. superficial/arrogant people are sort of vandalizes as they occupy a communication channel only to end up wasting time in unproductive discussions. > Irrelevant aside. You mention that one of the reasons that NSAPass is superior > to KeePassXC is the GitHub-generated distributions of languages: please > realise > that this is often grossly inaccurate, and is probably not something on which > you should capitalise in your critique of the project. Rest assured, the > entire > project is written in C++, with header files being erroneously classified as > plain C [1]. The Objective C++ is a very small proportion of the entire > codebase, used for MacOSX-specific builds, and everything else just consists > of > build utilities and scripts. Thankfully, GitHub uses `linguist` for automatic > language-detection, which supports a manual override [2], although this > feature > is unknown to most. yeah, however, two points: (1) imo build utilities is still part of the app since the app cannot run without them. imo we may call them ``build-time parts of the app'', which will still affect the run-time of the app. so it is still a relevant indicator of project's complexity imo. otoh, nsapass uses a single py file for everything, hence none of that complexity. (2) my main reason for that is to show that they are implemented mostly in c++ which is a nice tool to lose a leg (as bjarne stroustrup puts it). so if it's 100% c++, then it's even scarier. > Although it's wonderful that you're writing good code for others to use (and > one > of the best ways to learn programming), it is not a good idea to start your > endeavours by placing the logo of a seven-year-matured project with over > two-hundred contributors and many commercial sponsors next to some clip-art of > an unpleasant animalistic product (the most courteous description of which I > could think) and some out-of-date cheese. (1) it makes it more efficient because a person who looks at the image, and didnt' still read much of the text, he'd be more likely to tell from the graph that ``yeah complexity is bad'' (thanks to the clip arts). (2) it's funny imo. playfulness is a prerequisite of creativity. imo it's good to play around a bit. the opposite to it is "efficiency" i guess? if we operate in an efficient mode, then we will are optimized for completing paperwork-like tasks, but with much less creativity. (3) imo keepassxc's devs are too smart to be emotionally hurt because random neckbeard in the interwebs doesn't like their apps. but, hypothetically, in case there existed a dev who gets triggered by such things, then it is an
[gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)
hi - recently i heard some guys were suffering in this list from keepassxc, which reminded me of my my own. so i finally decided to put an end to this in 404 lines of py code: https://github.com/Al-Caveman/nsapass hth. rgrds, cm.
[gentoo-user] color fonts?
hi - some colors are fancy schmancy, look: https://www.fontspace.com/category/color can we do this to linux? e.g. in urxvt? also can we make our own color fonts? e.g. can OTB fonts have color encoded in them? rgrds, cm.
[gentoo-user] arpwatch changed syntax?
hi. background: --- previously, i used to run it by this: > arpwatch -i enp7s0 -m cave...@domain.com -s /usr/sbin/sendmail but now, after some update, apparently this doesn't work any more. what seems to have changed is: * "-m" is replaced by "-w" or "-W". * "-s" doesn't specify sendmail path, but is rather only a flag to suppress "reports sent by email". if i update the command into: > arpwatch -i enp7s0 -w cave...@domain.com then, it runs normally, but, it fails to send emails, with this error: > execl: sendmail: No such file or directory `whereis sendmail`: > sendmail: /usr/sbin/sendmail /usr/lib/sendmail /usr/lib64/sendmail /usr/share/man/man1/sendmail.1.bz2 questions: -- Q1: what happened that caused this syntax change? e.g. is it an update from upstream? or is it a totally new app written by other devs? or am i hallucinating (pretty sure it used to work tho)? Q2: is there any better tool to monitor arps and to email me when interesting things happen? thanks a lot for your time. rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] docutils needing py2.7, but not wanting py2.7?
On Friday, June 5, 2020 5:08 AM, Ashley Dixon wrote:
> smp? (
> >=dev-python/ipykernel-5.1.0[${PYTHON_USEDEP}]
>
> >=dev-python/ipyparallel-6.2.3[${PYTHON_USEDEP}]
>
> )"
>
>
> Do you currently have either of these packages installed ?
yes, but gone by --depclean (probably after -smp).
both were with python targets 3_7.
Re: [gentoo-user] docutils needing py2.7, but not wanting py2.7?
On Friday, June 5, 2020 4:20 AM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > installed version of ipython also has the [smp] USE-flag ? yeah. added -smp for ipython, and the circle is gone. looks problem is solved for now. (i hope i'm not missing much for having ipython with -smp) thanks a lot! i highly appreciate your help and time.
Re: [gentoo-user] docutils needing py2.7, but not wanting py2.7?
On Friday, June 5, 2020 1:43 AM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > I can't replicate this at all. Could you post (attach, compress if necessary) > your `emerge --info docutils` ? Thanks a lot for your time. Highly appreciated. Portage 2.3.100 (python 3.7.7-final-0, default/linux/amd64/17.1/systemd, gcc-10.1.0, glibc-2.31-r3, 5.6.15-gentoo-x86_64 x86_64) = System Settings = System uname: Linux-5.6.15-gentoo-x86_64-x86_64-Intel-R-_Core-TM-_i5-3570K_CPU_@_3.40GHz-with-gentoo-2.7 KiB Mem:32848340 total, 18036276 free KiB Swap: 0 total, 0 free Timestamp of repository gentoo: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 21:00:01 + Head commit of repository gentoo: 0d82464546659a8e2e797fc60889bcea6f9c1a2f sh bash 5.0_p17 ld GNU ld (Gentoo 2.34 p4) 2.34.0 app-shells/bash: 5.0_p17::gentoo dev-lang/perl:5.30.3::gentoo dev-lang/python: 2.7.18::gentoo, 3.6.10-r2::gentoo, 3.7.7-r2::gentoo, 3.8.3::gentoo, 3.9.0_beta1::gentoo dev-util/cmake: 3.17.3::gentoo sys-apps/baselayout: 2.7::gentoo sys-apps/sandbox: 2.20::gentoo sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13-r1::gentoo, 2.69-r5::gentoo sys-devel/automake: 1.16.2::gentoo sys-devel/binutils: 2.34-r1::gentoo sys-devel/gcc:10.1.0::gentoo sys-devel/gcc-config: 2.3::gentoo sys-devel/libtool:2.4.6-r6::gentoo sys-devel/make: 4.3::gentoo sys-kernel/linux-headers: 5.7::gentoo (virtual/os-headers) sys-libs/glibc: 2.31-r3::gentoo Repositories: gentoo location: /var/db/repos/gentoo sync-type: rsync sync-uri: rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage priority: -1000 sync-rsync-verify-jobs: 1 sync-rsync-verify-metamanifest: yes sync-rsync-verify-max-age: 24 sync-rsync-extra-opts: cg location: /var/lib/layman/cg masters: gentoo priority: 50 steam-overlay location: /var/lib/layman/steam-overlay masters: gentoo priority: 50 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64 ~amd64" ACCEPT_LICENSE="@FREE" CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu" CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe -msse -msse2 -msse3 -mmmx -fdiagnostics-color=always" CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu" CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/lib64/libreoffice/program/sofficerc /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt" CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/language.dat.d /etc/texmf/language.def.d /etc/texmf/updmap.d /etc/texmf/web2c" CXXFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe -msse -msse2 -msse3 -mmmx -fdiagnostics-color=always" DISTDIR="/var/cache/distfiles" ENV_UNSET="DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS DISPLAY GOBIN PERL5LIB PERL5OPT PERLPREFIX PERL_CORE PERL_MB_OPT PERL_MM_OPT XAUTHORITY XDG_CACHE_HOME XDG_CONFIG_HOME XDG_DATA_HOME XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" FCFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe -msse -msse2 -msse3 -mmmx -fdiagnostics-color=always" FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-docompress binpkg-dostrip binpkg-logs config-protect-if-modified distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles ipc-sandbox merge-sync multilib-strict network-sandbox news parallel-fetch pid-sandbox preserve-libs protect-owned qa-unresolved-soname-deps sandbox sfperms strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch userpriv usersandbox usersync xattr" FFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe -msse -msse2 -msse3 -mmmx -fdiagnostics-color=always" GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org; LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed" MAKEOPTS="-j4" PKGDIR="/var/cache/binpkgs" PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/" PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages --exclude=/.git" PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp" USE="acl alsa amd64 berkdb bzip2 cli crypt dri fortran gdbm iconv ipv6 libtirpc multilib ncurses nls nptl openmp pam pcre pulseaudio readline seccomp split-usr ssl systemd tcpd udev unicode xattr zlib" ABI_X86="64" ADA_TARGET="gnat_2018" ALSA_CARDS="ali5451 als4000 atiixp atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx via82xx-modem ymfpci" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="karbon sheets words" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2"
[gentoo-user] docutils needing py2.7, but not wanting py2.7?
if i exec: "emerge -avDuNt --quiet-build=y @world": > These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > > The following USE changes are necessary to proceed: > (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details) > # > >=dev-python/docutils-0.16 -python_targets_python2_7 > > Would you like to add these changes to your config files? [Yes/No] so >=dev-python/docutils-0.16 doesn't want python_targets_python2_7. let's remove it then by adding: >=dev-python/docutils-0.16 -python_targets_python2_7 into: /etc/portage/package.use/stuff but then i get this: > The following USE changes are necessary to proceed: > (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details) > # required by dev-python/m2r-0.2.1::gentoo[-test] > # required by dev-python/automat-20.2.0::gentoo > # required by dev-python/twisted-20.3.0::gentoo > # required by www-servers/tornado-6.0.4::gentoo > # required by dev-python/ipykernel-5.1.4::gentoo[-test] > # required by dev-python/ipyparallel-6.2.3::gentoo > # required by dev-python/ipython-7.5.0::gentoo[smp] > # required by @selected > # required by @world (argument) > >=dev-python/docutils-0.16 python_targets_python2_7 > > Would you like to add these changes to your config files? [Yes/No] which i guess means that docutils wants py2.7. any idea how to handle this situation?
Re: [gentoo-user] newboat loading wrong library path
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:02 PM, Ashley Dixon wrote: > A more permanent solution would be to fix the error in newsboat, or patch the > ebuild to create this symlink upon installation of stfl or newsboat. thanks a lot for your time. highly appreciated. any reason why it isn't a bug in libstfl? e.g. shouldn't it create a symlink to libstfl.so.0 as well? any guideline that helps us figure out whether its an app's fault or a lib's fault? rgrds, cm
[gentoo-user] newboat loading wrong library path
hi: shell> newsboat newsboat: error while loading shared libraries: libstfl.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory shell> ls /usr/lib64/libstfl.so* -lh lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 May 10 15:27 /usr/lib64/libstfl.so -> libstfl.so.0.24* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 80K May 10 15:27 /usr/lib64/libstfl.so.0.24* if i manually link the lib to libstfl.so.0, it works normally. any idea what's causing this issue? (or how to find what's the cause?) (and thanks for your time) rgrds, cm.
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:35 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:14 PM Caveman Al Toraboran > toraboracave...@protonmail.com wrote: > > > are you referring to python's dependence on expat > > and glibc? > > More like bash's dependence. Well, and in the case of glibc just > about everything. When those break you're basically stuck recovering > from a rescue disk. or have sash somewhere around? > Fortunately we haven't had glibc/gcc break ABI in quite a while, and > preserved-rebuild covers a lot of the other issues. > > In any case, if you have a solution other than statically building > half the system I'm sure patches will be welcome. FWIW Gentoo is > about as hassle-free to use as it has ever been. It isn't debian > stable, and it is unlikely to ever be that way... why not? surely not as a 1st step, but it's not like 50% of the system apps are sacred or anything. imo right approach is this: 1. make portage statically linked. enjoy the removed python inconveniences. 2. if the bottleneck of inconvenience becomes bash's use glibc (a great milestone to celebrate btw), then we see how to fix that. 3. a component at a time, we eventually approach linux utopia. ``step (1) is not a utopia yet'' is no excuse to not start the journey of removing inconveniences.
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:31 AM, Dale wrote: > Rich Freeman wrote: > > OP, odds are the emerge failure is what triggered the problem. If it had > completed without failure, it would likely have been a clean update. This is > why I set up a chroot and do my updates there and use the -k option to > install on my actual system. It takes very little time and so far, no > breakages on my real system. If any thing fails, it's more likely to be in > the chroot which won't hurt anything. If you able, may be a option worth > thinking about for yourself as well. > > Dale > > :-) :-) ya. i said it already. emerge's update failed with some package midways (some package needed some USE flag change), but then layman stopped working in this incomplete state. also the issue was simple. but i pointed out that the inconvenience of having a fancy dependency on a pms is still there.
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 5:43 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > Are you overriding something, or were you running this right in the > middle of an update? emerge was updating, then some ebuild failed and i didn't have --keep-going. then next time i tried to sync layman it failed. i'm now re-running emerge and it seems to work normally. > > layman-2.4.2 strictly requires python 3.6 and the system wouldn't let > you remove that version of python unless you forced it to. The newer > version of layman is compatible with the newer versions of python, but > of course needs to be rebuilt for it. i have layman-2.4.3, emerged with python3_6, and is now about to be moved to python3_7. no biggie. i can fix it. but, my point is, this hassle is needless and keeps coming. > If you read the news on the update you'd see this. If you just do a > regular emerge -uD @world then while it was in the middle of updating > some things would break. There are instructions in the news for how > to do a more seamless upgrade by enabling both the older and newer > versions of python in parallel, in which case there won't be any point > where things break. That does require rebuilding everything twice > (not necessarily at the same time). true, but needless hassle imo. > Really though this is pretty tame. There have been some updates to > expat and especially glibc in the past that were pretty hairy. are you referring to python's dependence on expat and glibc? yeah, so many layers of mistakes get born when one relies on python as a dependency for a system app that manages other apps (including itself).
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:28 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 12:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > > On a source-based distribution, the thing that manages package > > installations can break itself if it incorrectly installs a library that > > a subsequent run of itself would dynamically link against. > > I won't say this is impossible, but in general it hasn't been true for a > long time in Gentoo. Old libraries are left behind until you rebuild the > things that link against them (that's what emerge @preserved-rebuild > does). When used correctly, subslot dependencies in ebuilds avoid the > need for even that additional step. just to say that some portagy thing (layman) can't work now as emerge was rebuilding packages to remove python3_6): running "layman -S"... Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python-exec/python3.6/layman", line 36, in from layman.cliimport Main File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/layman/cli.py", line 29, in from layman.api import LaymanAPI File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/layman/api.py", line 25, in from layman.remotedbimport RemoteDB File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/layman/remotedb.py", line 46, in from sslfetch.connections import Connector ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'sslfetch' obviously solvable easily in this case, but imo needless drama keeps coming every now and then. imo we've also became pythonupgradophobic. every python upgrade becomes after a warning from eselect news. i look forward the day when all portagy things get treated similar to busybox (i.e. come with "static" USE flag by default). that said, gentoo is still the best distro imo. so it shall remain accursed by immortality in the realm of undeads.
Re: [gentoo-user] which linux RAID setup to choose?
On Monday, May 4, 2020 3:19 AM, antlists wrote: > On 03/05/2020 22:46, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > > On Sunday, May 3, 2020 6:27 PM, Jack ostrof...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: > > curious. how do people look at --layout=n2 in the > > storage industry? e.g. do they ignore the > > optimistic case where 2 disk failures can be > > recovered, and only assume that it protects for 1 > > disk failure? > > You CANNOT afford to be optimistic ... Murphy's law says you will lose > the wrong second disk. so i guess your answer is: "yes, the industry ignores the existence of optimistic cases". if that's true, then the industry is wrong, must learn the following: 1. don't bet that your data's survival is lingering on luck (you agree with this i know). 2. don't ignore statistics that reveal the fact that lucky cases exist. (1) and (2) are not mutually exclusive, and murfphy's law would suggest to not ignore (2). becuase, if you ignore (2), you'll end up adopting a 5-disk RAID10 instead of the superior 6-disk RAID10 and end up being less lucky in practice. don't rely on lucks, but why deny good luck to come to you when it might? --- two different things. > > i see why gambling is not worth it here, but at > > the same time, i see no reason to ignore reality > > (that a 2 disk failure can be saved). > > Don't ignore that some 2-disk failures CAN'T be saved ... yeah, i'm not. i'm just not ignoring that 2-disk failure might get saved. you know... it's better to have a lil window where some good luck may chime in than banning good luck. > Don't forget, if you have a spare disk, the repair window is the length > of time it takes to fail-over ... yup. just trying to not rely on good luck that a spare is available. e.g. considering for the case that no space is there. > > this site [2] says that 76% of seagate disks fail > > per year (:D). and since disks fail independent > > of each other mostly, then, the probabilty of > > having 2 disks fail in a year is: > > 76% seems incredibly high. And no, disks do not fail independently of > each other. If you buy a bunch of identical disks, at the same time, and > stick them all in the same raid array, the chances of them all wearing > out at the same time are rather higher than random chance would suggest. i know. i had this as a note, but then removed it. anyway, some nitpics: 1. dependence != correlation. you mean correlation, not dependence. disk failure is correlated if they are baught together, but other disks don't cause the failure (unless from things like heat from other disks, or repair stress because of other disk failing). 2. i followed the extreme case where a person got his disks purchased at a random time, so that he was maximally lucky in that his disks didn't synchronize. why? (i) offers a better pessimistic result. now we know that this probability is actually lower than reality, which means that we know that the 3.5k bucks is actually even lower. this should scare us more (hence us relying on less luck). (ii) makes calculation easier.
Re: [gentoo-user] which linux RAID setup to choose?
On Monday, May 4, 2020 2:50 AM, hitachi303 wrote: > Am 03.05.2020 um 23:46 schrieb Caveman Al Toraboran: > > > so, in summary: > > /\ > > | a 5-disk RAID10 is better than a 6-disk RAID10 | > > | ONLY IF your data is WORTH LESS than 3,524.3 | > > | bucks. | > > \/ > > any thoughts? i'm a newbie. i wonder how > > industry people think? > > Don't forget that having more drives increases the odds of a failing > drive. If you have infinite drives at any given moment infinite drives > will fail. Anyway I wouldn't know how to calculate this. by drive, you mean a spinning hard disk? i'm not sure how "infinite" helps here even theoretically. e.g. say that every year, 76% of disks fail. in the limit as the number of disks approaches infinity, then 76% of infinity is infinity. but, how is this useful? > Most people are limited by money and space. Even if this isn't your > problem you will always need an additional backup strategy. The hole > system can fail. > I run a system with 8 drives where two can fail and they can be hot > swoped. This is a closed source SAS which I really like except the part > being closed source. I don't even know what kind of raid is used. > > The only person I know who is running a really huge raid ( I guess 2000+ > drives) is comfortable with some spare drives. His raid did fail an can > fail. Data will be lost. Everything important has to be stored at a > secondary location. But they are using the raid to store data for some > days or weeks when a server is calculating stuff. If the raid fails they > have to restart the program for the calculation. thanks a lot. highly appreciate these tips about how others run their storage. however, i am not sure what is the takeaway from this. e.g. your closed-source NAS vs. a large RAID. they don't seem to be mutually exclusive to me (both might be on RAID). to me, a NAS is just a computer with RAID. no? > Facebook used to store data which is sometimes accessed on raids. Since > they use energy they stored data which is nearly never accessed on blue > ray disks. I don't know if they still do. Reading is very slow if a > mechanical arm first needs to fetch a specific blue ray out of hundreds > and put in a disk reader but it is very energy efficient. interesting.
Re: [gentoo-user] which linux RAID setup to choose?
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 6:27 PM, Jack wrote: > Minor point - you have one duplicate line there ". f f ." which is the > second and last line of the second group. No effect on anything else in > the discussion. thanks. > Trying to help thinking about odd numbers of disks, if you are still > allowing only one disk to fail, then you can think about mirroring half > disks, so each disk has half of it mirrored to a different disk, instead > of drives always being mirrored in pairs. that definitely helped get me unstuck and continue thinking. thanks. curious. how do people look at --layout=n2 in the storage industry? e.g. do they ignore the optimistic case where 2 disk failures can be recovered, and only assume that it protects for 1 disk failure? i see why gambling is not worth it here, but at the same time, i see no reason to ignore reality (that a 2 disk failure can be saved). e.g. a 4-disk RAID10 with -layout=n2 gives 1*4/10 + 2*4/10 = 1.2 expected recoverable disk failures. details are below: F . . . < recoverable . F . . < cases with . . F . < 1 disk . . . F < failure F . . F < recoverable . F F . < cases with . F . F < 2 disk F . F . < failures F F . . < not recoverable . . F F < cases with 2 disk < failures now, if we do a 5-disk --layout=n2, we get: 1(1)2(2)3 (3)4(4)5(5) 6(6)7(7)8 (8)9(9)10 (10) 11 (11) 12 (12) 13 (13) ... obviously, there are 5 possible ways a single disk may fail, out of which all of the 5 will be recovered. there are nchoosek(5,2) = 10 possible ways a 2 disk failure could happen, out of which 5 will be recovered: xxx (1) xxx (2)3 xxx4xxx5(5) xxx (1)2xxx3 xxx4(4) xxx (5) 1xxx2xxx3 (3) xxx (4) xxx (5) 1xxx2(2) xxx (3) xxx (4)5xxx 1(1) xxx (2) xxx (3)4xxx5xxx so, expected recoverable disk failures for a 5-disk RAID10 --layout=n2 is: 1*5/15 + 2*5/15 = 1 so, by transforming a 4-disk RAID10 into a 5-disk one, we increase total storage capacity by a 0.5 disk's worth of storage, while losing the ability to recover 0.2 disks. but if we extended the 4-disk RAID10 into a 6-disk --layout=n2, we will have: 6 nchoosek(6,2) - 3 = 1 * - + 2 * - 6 + nchoosek(6,2) 6 + nchoosek(6,2) = 6/21 + 2 * 12/15 = 1.8857 expected recoverable failing disks. almost 2. i.e. there is 80% chance of surviving a 2 disk failure. so, i wonder, is it a bad decision to go with an even number disks with a RAID10? what is the right way to think to find an answer to this question? i guess the ultimate answer needs knowledge of these: * F1: probability of having 1 disks fail within the repair window. * F2: probability of having 2 disks fail within the repair window. * F3: probability of having 3 disks fail within . the repair window. . . * Fn: probability of having n disks fail within the repair window. * R1: probability of surviving 1 disks failure. equals 1 with all related cases. * R2: probability of surviving 2 disks failure. equals 1/3 with 5-disk RAID10 equals 0.8 with a 6-disk RAID10. * R3: probability of surviving 3 disks failure. equals 0 with all related cases. . . . * Rn: probability of surviving n disks failure. equals 0 with all related cases. * L : expected cost of losing data on an array. * D : price of a disk. this way, the absolute expected cost when adopting a 6-disk RAID10 is: = 6D + F1*(1-R1)*L + F2*(1-R2)*L + F3*(1-R3)*L + ... = 6D + F1*(1-1)*L + F2*(1-0.8)*L + F3*(1-0)*L + ... = 6D + 0 + F2*(0.2)*L + F3*(1-0)*L + ... and the absolute cost for a 5-disk RAID10 is: = 5D + F1*(1-1)*L + F2*(1-0.)*L + F3*(1-0)*L + ... = 5D + 0 + F2*(0.6667)*L + F3*(1-0)*L + ... canceling identical terms, the difference cost is: 6-disk ===> 6D + 0.2*F2*L 5-disk ===> 5D + 0.6667*F2*L from here [1] we know that a 1TB disk costs $35.85, so: 6-disk ===> 6*35.85 + 0.2*F2*L 5-disk ===> 5*35.85 + 0.6667*F2*L now, at which point is a 5-disk array a better economical decision than a 6-disk one? for simplicity, let LOL = F2*L: 5*35.85 + 0.6667 * LOL < 6*35.85 + 0.2 * LOL 0.6667*LOL - 0.2 * LOL < 6*35.85 - 5*35.85 LOL * (0.6667 - 0.2)< 6*35.85 - 5*35.85 6*35.85 - 5*35.85 LOL < - 0.6667 - 0.2 LOL < 76.816
Re: [gentoo-user] which linux RAID setup to choose?
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:23 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > For anything above raid 1, MAKE SURE your drives support SCT/ERC. For > example, Seagate Barracudas are very popular desktop drives, but I guess > maybe HALF of the emails asking for help recovering an array on the raid > list involve them dying ... > > (I've got two :-( but my new system - when I get it running - has > ironwolves instead.) that's very scary. just to double check: are those help emails about linux's software RAID? or is it about hardware RAIDs? the reason i ask about software vs. hardware, is because of this wiki article [1] which seems to suggest that mdadm handles error recovery by waiting for up to 30 seconds (set in /sys/block/sd*/device/timeout) after which the device is reset. am i missing something? to me it seems that [1] seems to suggest that linux software raid has a reliable way to handle the issue? since i guess all disks support resetting well? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_recovery_control#Software_RAID
Re: [gentoo-user] which linux RAID setup to choose?
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:14 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > > Q3: what are the future growth/shrinkage > > options for a RAID10 setup? e.g. with > > respect to these: > > > > 1. read/write speed. > > > > iirc far is good for speed. > > > 2. tolerance guarantee towards failing > >disks. > > > > Guarantees? If you have two mirrors. the guarantee is just ONE disk. Yes > you can gamble on losing more. > > > 3. total available space. > > > > iirc you can NOT grow the far layout. sorry, typo, i meant "near" (the command was right though --layout=n2)
[gentoo-user] which linux RAID setup to choose?
hi - i'm to setup my 1st RAID, and i'd appreciate if any of you volunteers some time to share your valuable experience on this subject. my scenario --- 0. i don't boot from the RAID. 1. read is as important as write. i don't have any application-specific scenario that makes me somehow favor one over another. so RAIDs that speed up the read (or write) while significantly harming the write (or read) is not welcome. 2. replacing failed disks may take a week or two. so, i guess that i may have several disks fail one after another in the 1-2 weeks (specially if they were bought about the same time). 3. i would like to be able to grow the RAID's total space (as needed), and increase its reliability (i.e. duplicates/partities) as needed. e.g. suppose that i got a 2TB RAID that tolerates 1 disk failure. i'd like to, at some point, to have the following options: * only increase the total space (e.g. make it 3TB), without increasing failure toleration (so 2 disk failure would result in data loss). * or, only increase the failure tolerance (e.g. such that 2 disks failure would not lead to data loss), without increasing the total space (e.g. space remains 2TB). * or, increase, both, the space and the failure tolerance at the same time. 4. only interested in software RAID. my thought -- i think these are not suitable: * RAID 0: fails to satisfy point (3). * RAID 1: fails to satisfy points (1) and (3). * RAIDs 4 to 6: fails to satisfy point (3) since they are stuck with a fixed tolerance towards failing disks (i.e. RAIDs 4 and 5 tolerate only 1 disk failure, and RAID 6 tolerates only 2). this leaves me with RAID 10, with the "far" layout. e.g. --layout=n2 would tolerate the failure of two disks, --layout=n3 three, etc. or is it? (i'm not sure). my questions Q1: which RAID setup would you recommend? Q2: how would the total number of disks in a RAID10 setup affect the tolerance towards the failing disks? if the total number of disks is even, then it is easy to see how this is equivalent to the classical RAID 1+0 as shown in md(4), where any disk failure is tolerated for as long as each RAID1 group has 1 disk failure only. so, we get the following combinations of disk failures that, if happen, we won't lose any data: RAID0 --^-- RAID1 RAID1 --^-- --^-- F . . . < cases with . F . . < single disk . . F . < failures . . . F < F . . F < cases with . F F . < two disk . F . F < failures F . F . < . F F . < this gives us 4+5=9 possible disk failure scenarious where we can survive it without any data loss. but, when the number of disks is odd, then written bytes and their duplicates will start wrap around, and it is difficult for me to intuitively see how would this affect the total number of scenarious where i will survive a disk failure. Q3: what are the future growth/shrinkage options for a RAID10 setup? e.g. with respect to these: 1. read/write speed. 2. tolerance guarantee towards failing disks. 3. total available space. rgrds, cm.
[gentoo-user] how to partition a dm-crypt disk?
hi - why can't i use fdisk to partition a dm-crypt disk? tried to `sudo fdisk /dev/mapper/ea`, which is created by: > `sudo cryptsetup open --type plain /dev/sda ea` fdisk shows my partitions: > Device StartEndSectors Size Type > /dev/mapper/ea-part1 2048 10487807 10485760 5G Linux filesystem > /dev/mapper/ea-part2 10487808 1953525134 1943037327 926.5G Linux filesystem but, as i save that partition table, i get this error: > Command (m for help): w > The partition table has been altered. > Failed to add partition 1 to system: Invalid argument > Failed to add partition 2 to system: Invalid argument if i repeat the execution of fdisk, i see that partition table, and if i hit `w`, it saves without showing that error. then, as i go to run `mkfs.ext4` on them, i can't see them under `/dev/mapper/`. rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] transparent compression? (e.g. device mapper for compression)
On Thursday, April 30, 2020 9:59 AM, Adam Carter wrote: > https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Compression oo. thanks, but my mistake. i should've clarified better. i'm looking for a solution that works nicely with ext4. ideally i am thinking of a device mapper solution. e.g. we got a device mapper for encryption (dm-crypt), but i think we lack one for compression.
[gentoo-user] transparent compression? (e.g. device mapper for compression)
hi - any nice way to have compression at the file system level, without using zfs? perhaps some kind of device mapper that compresses data? i find file system compression to speed up read/write to slow disks noticeably (e.g. sata). rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:23 AM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > It's not outwardly a traveling salesman problem, but it's on the same > level of difficulty. If you look at RDEPEND in an ebuild, you'll see a > bunch of entries like > > cat/pkg <= version > > As the package manager recursively processes all of the ebuilds in the > dependency graph, you wind up with a goal like > > maximize the versions of all installed packages > subject to > cat/pkg1 <= version1 > cat/pkg1 > version2 > > cat/pkg2 >= version3 > > ... > > > That looks a lot like a linear programming problem, but package versions > are discrete. So ignoring all of the details, it's believable that we > have an integer programming problem, which is NP-complete. i'm dumb, and don't fully understand this, but i think i found something interesting: [1] http://www.aimsciences.org/article/doi/10.3934/jimo.2014.10.557 i wonder, can gradient descent be used to find optimal portage solution? didn't read beyond the abstract in [1], but from the abstract it seems doable (i.e. integer programming solvable by gradient descent). anyone please correct me if i'm wrong. if doing it with gradient descent is doable, then i wonder, can emerge one day be GPU accelerated? how coold would it be? :D ``world's 1st GPU accelerated package manager''! of course it is not a pressing issue, but i think it is a very fun puzzle to think about in my free time (which is most of my life these days), and i think some here may like contemplating such shameless thoughts. rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 10:04 PM, Fernando Reyes wrote: > Bravo, and Gentoo can't be dead because it's immortal. > > likewhoa no, that's not it. let me explain. gentoo is indeed dead. specifically, gentoo's death happened some time in 2007. then, in the 2nd of march 2008, gentoo became undead [1]. it's very difficult to kill undeads (try it in dark souls). technically they are dead already. but i think i know how to finally free gentoo from the undead realm and let it finally rest in peace. here is how: * something better than gentoo should come. e.g. something source-based and comprehensive. so far, there is no better solution than gentoo for the requirements that gentoo satisfies. therefore, gentoo cannot be freed from the "undread" realm to finally rest in peace. if you want to set gentoo free, please tell us 1 source-based distro that is as comprehensive as gentoo (or more). then we cen celebrate gentoo's freedom from the undead realm right now. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux#History rgrds, cm.
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Friday, April 24, 2020 12:27 AM, Steven Lembark wrote: > Main issue I can see with C is that most people today don't know how > to manage memory; not enough of us left who really understand how > malloc works :-) i find it very hard to believe this. because, fundamentally, the concept of malloc/free is the same concept that we expect a 5 years old kid to know. e.g. we tell kids ``return all balls back into the bucket before you leave the room'', which is exactly the concept of malloc/free. probably we can even train monkeys to do the same (return all taken balls back before leaving). so i really can't believe that we have devolved in such a way where malloc/free suddenly has became a hard concept for homo sapiens.
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Friday, April 24, 2020 9:56 PM, Michele Alzetta wrote: > I mean, basically portage is just a set of functions, so a functional > programming language might just be the best way to go yes, haskell passes step (1); so does php, java, etc. now kindly apply the rest of the steps ((2) and (3)), and see how far haskell would reach? i don't think haskell would pass step (2), and even if does, i doubt it would survive step (3). unless you're seriously asking this question, you're committing a strawman.
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Friday, April 24, 2020 8:30 PM, inasprecali wrote: > There is no rational reason for the core of Portage to be written in > C. curious.. are you also cool if busybox was written in python?
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Friday, April 24, 2020 4:45 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > How did we get from "Is Gentoo dead?" to "Is C++ dead?" c++ is very alive. it just usually exists in the form of a disease and spreads like cancer. rgrds, cm.
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:32 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it. > > C++ is an extremely widespread language with millions of lines of code > written daily world wide. i think that might be misleading as it seems to imply that being a c++ dev is mutually exclusive against being a c dev (is it? the languages agree on many syntaxes/features). i think the right way of thinking is as follows: 1. identify programming features needed to code a reliable pms. i think most likely all we need is [recursive] function calls and if/else/loops. the rest probably has to do with algorithms (independent of the language). 2. pick language that has features (1) and has the largest users base. if the set of features in (1) is small enough (such as ones i suggested), then the c++ developers should be counted as c developers (because that part is common between c++ and c). 3. apply occam's razor. if two languages are equally satisfying points (1) and (2), then choose the simplest one. but if my thought is correct (that we only need the subset of features in c++ that's already in c), then c is guaranteed to have a greater effective number of developers in step (2). hence, we will not even need to apply occam's razor to remove c++ (unless points (1) and (2) result in a tie, which i don't think it does in this case). > Lots of people want to use it. Just not people who want to write a PMS > compliant package manager. probably same kind of people that are headed to blow their legs (and ours) in the process.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Friday, April 24, 2020 1:03 AM, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > If it's so easy, why don't you implement it? /s because busy and got better things in life. but what is your point? 1. are you trying to get to know me a bit closer? 2. or are you trying to indirectly a claim that making portage faster is too hard? if (1) then off-topic. if (2) then you're committing a logical fallacy. some version of appeal to majority? hence your claim is unsubstantiated, and is deleted from space thanks to occam's razor. if it was too hard for most people in the past, it doesn't mean that it is hard for everyone else. not saying that your claim is wrong. but saying that your tool to show that claim is not working. not saying that your claim is right either. it's so far floating somewhere in the ``unknown'' region (until a proof is presented; not a logical fallacy). > Sorry for being a little glib but every couple months I go through this > thought process: > > 1. Wow, portage is slow > 2. I can make this faster, it can't be that hard > 3. ...wow, nevermind, it is really hard > 4. Thank you portage maintainers! if your point is to share history, thanks. else: logical fallacy (read above). > I don't think it's O(log n). Roughly, for 1 package portage has to make the > full dep > tree, solve all the constraints to resolve to actual packages that can be > installed, > and order and merge the tree into a single branch of packages to install. I'm > probably missing some steps and obviously that's not a rigorous explanation > but > it's at least O(n) where n is the total number of dependencies. not mutually exclusive. your n (number of deps) is different than my n (number of packages in portage). e.g. i think that : O(your n) = O(log(my n)) i think the real trick is to split portage into two separate parts: 1. index: pre-compiled indexed global dependency graph. this should allow efficient jumping into the right spot of the graph to efficiently walk around to meet the dependencies based on constraints (e.g. USE flags, versions). imo this can do the dependency resolution that emerge does in 45 seconds in less than 3 seconds. 2. scripts to carry out the compile/installation. currently portage has (1) and (2) mixed into a single directory-based structure containing files in a format that is not efficient for graph walking, and uses the wrong tool (python). > Speeding up portage would be a fun project but it's less important > that portage being correct. yes, the speed issue is not a problem (more like a psychological issue). but that's misleading. portage's problems is beyond the timing issue. e.g.: 1. the fact that emerge uses python is horrible. ideally a package manager must have least run-time dependencies possible. but now, emerge is based on python, which limits our freedom in upgrading python versions in the fear of wrecking emerge (and getting stuck, needing manual attention). which is why i think ideally new emerge should be some statically linked compiled binary. 2. i'm sure smart people can point out better reasons about how emerge is wrong.
Re: [gentoo-user] Prefer Gentoo repository rather than overlay?
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:09 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: > Looking for some guidance in managing the source of package > installs/upgrades when a package is provided by both the standard > repository and an overlay. > > I currently have the poly-c overlay added via layman. poly-c provides > many of the same packages as the standard gentoo repository. > > When I install/update packages, portage appears to prefer the version > provided by poly-c rather than the version provided by the gentoo > repository, if the two provide the same version number of the package. > Examples of this include sys-boot/grub, sys-fs/udev, and other critical > packages. > > I would prefer that portage prioritize gentoo's version rather than the > overlay's version, unless specified otherwise (eg. > sys-boot/grub::poly-c) when installing. > > What's the best way to go about doing this? I could specify ::gentoo > for each entry in my world file, but this seems rather heavy-handed and > high maintenance. Is there a better way? **warning** i'm dumb. didn't try it, but i guess you'll get the effect you want by: * setting priority of your layman repo below -1000. * setting priority of the gentoo repo above 50 (i think default for layman). more info: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Ebuild_repository#Priorities
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the > traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman > problem while being punched in the face is even harder. When I complain > about portage being slow, what I mean is that I want to stop being > punched in the face so that I can concentrate all of my energy on the > underlying hard problem. any reason why is it a traveling salesman problem, and not just a tree walk with heuristics to handle exceptions (e.g. cycles)? my thought -- my thought is that dep. resolution is like walking down a tree, and branch out depending on the USE flags -- for this, imo the sympt. run-time complexity should be approximately O(log n), where n = number of packages in portage. except that some of its leaves go back to a branch (circular dependencies). here, we can add heuristics/workarounds when cycles are detected. how common is it to stumble upon cycles in a single dependency resolution run? let's say it happens S many times per run. so in overall, i think, it should be O(log n + S). since it can be seen as a tree, imo it is very easy to distribute the computation across several cores, even for a single package dep. resolution. e.g. create threads upon branching in the tree until MAX_THRD reached. of course all in C, statically-linked (minimum run-time dep. for emerge). i don't see why we need fancy stuff like python.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:35 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 11:22 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > > On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus con...@ftml.net wrote: > > > > > Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage. > > > > patching P*E is heretic, and forking it is > > outright blasphemous. > > For everyone complaining about how long emerge @world takes, and about > the incomprehensible error messages -- this fork was a step towards > fixing that. Portage does some slow, unpredictable, undocumented magic > when resolving dependencies that it never should have done in the first > place. Developers using portage then make commits that appear to work > with portage, but won't work in any other PMS-compliant package manager, > and often don't work in portage itself when given slightly different > command-line options. > > Portage was forked because the current maintainers insist on leaving it > broken to "avoid the phone calls." There are still problems, but this > way people don't realize they're portage's fault. i was joking. i agree with you + mgorny. in fact, i think portage sucks so much it must be rewritten from scratch, in such a way that it has least run-time dependencies, so we stop worrying about upgrading other packages, such as python. e.g. perhaps gne (gne is not emerge) should better be statically linked (no stupid python run-time that freaks us every time we upgrade python). just my thought. but mgorny knows much better than me most likely. i like his work. and i hope politics around emerge/portage gets dropped.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: best rss reader?
On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 3:44 AM, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Really? Masked as in package.mask? When? I don't see that. > I use it too, and it is better than the alternatives IMO. i'm on ~amd, is this related to why you don't see it? from `/var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles/package.mask`: ``` # Michał Górny (2020-04-19) # Both packages are unmaintained and have unresolved bugs. stfl # is stuck on Python 3.6 and newsboat is its only revdep. # Removal in 30 days. Bug #718286. dev-libs/stfl net-news/newsboat ``` i highly appreciate mgorny's work though. thanks to him, now i'm aware of the shortcomings, and looks like i'm now headed to get me a better rss reader. also thanks to those who helped me in this thread. highly appreciated. i'm now trying your ideas, and very optimistic i'll find a better rss reader setup.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus wrote: > Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage. patching P*E is heretic, and forking it is outright blasphemous.
[gentoo-user] best rss reader?
hi - could everyone share his rss reading setup? i have newsboat, but it got masked. so i'm now starting to look around again. i'm open minded and welling to question fundamentals in the theory of the optimality of rss feed readers. so if you have some principles/theories about what makes an rss feed optimum, please share these too, as it might help me think in a better way in my quest to find the best rss feed reader. summary of questions: - 1. what rss feed reader do you use? 2. what are your theoretical principles that guided you to choose the rss feed that you use. rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] can't paste password from clipboard into ssh login in urxvt
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 10:09 PM, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > I use urxvt and I've always done Ctrl+Alt+V for paste. If you try that, what > does it do? yes. it works. thanks. i guess the reason ctrl+shift+v, or ctrl+v, work is because of fish's (shell) magic. but when ssh runs, it's no longer fish's business to do its magic as i'm pasting into ssh's stdin (not fish's), which is when only urxvt's magic applies.
Re: [gentoo-user] can't paste password from clipboard into ssh login in urxvt
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 9:51 PM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > if i press ctrl+shift+v, followed by enter, then > not even the enter registers. if i press the > enter again, alone, without the preceeding > ctrl+shift+v, it works but tells me the obvious > message "permission denied, please try again". > > but if i do the same thing (ctrl+shift+v) in > urxvt, without having ssh's password prompt, then > the password pastes normally, and the subsequent > enter works normally (of course it shows "unknown > command: "). just to add: if i paste the password by the middlemouse buffer (selection buffer?) it goes through ssh's login prompt. but the ctrl+shift+v (clipboard buffer) doesn't. both (selection and clipboard) pastes work in urxvt when ssh's prompt is not there. but it seems deeper than just the "login prompt". i repeated the same fast enough to paste before the "login prompt" appearing, and same effect: paste did not work when ssh is running. it seems a problem when ssh is running. here is one hint: when i paste with ctrl+shift+v, ssh shows "^" before the password prompt appears. of course, shows nothing when the password prompt appears.
Re: [gentoo-user] can't paste password from clipboard into ssh login in urxvt
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:20 PM, wrote: > I didn't tru that muself, but as far as I could remember, > ssh catches the tty so no password will be shown (but processed). ya, i know that bit. > What happens if you paste the password, ignore, that "nothing" happens > and then press ? if i press ctrl+shift+v, followed by enter, then not even the enter registers. if i press the enter again, alone, without the preceeding ctrl+shift+v, it works but tells me the obvious message "permission denied, please try again". but if i do the same thing (ctrl+shift+v) in urxvt, without having ssh's password prompt, then the password pastes normally, and the subsequent enter works normally (of course it shows "unknown command: ").
Re: [gentoo-user] can't paste password from clipboard into ssh login in urxvt
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:12 PM, David Abbott wrote: > Did you try CTRL + SHIFT + V yes (that's how i paste).
[gentoo-user] can't paste password from clipboard into ssh login in urxvt
so i get my password loaded into the clipboard by keepassxc. then i can paste it into various terminals, like urxvt. but, the strange thing is that, i cannot paste it into urxvt when it shows ssh's login prompt. i can paste the password loaded into the clipboard from keepassxc if there is no ssh login. but just can't when there is an ssh login prompt. any idea what's going on? rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] display repo in emerge list?
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:19 PM, Arve Barsnes wrote: > It shows the repository for me when I use my command. I assume you > would get the same if you removed -q (quiet) from your command, which > might override or interfere with your -v (verbose). > > Another thing people might react to, are your use of both -U and -N, > which are two different approaches to updating packages with changes > in their USE state. thx sir. i removed: `-q` and added: `--quiet-build y` instead. very excellente. rgrds, cm.
[gentoo-user] display repo in emerge list?
hi - any way to display which repository a package is being installed/updated from when emerging something? e.g. when doing `emerge -aqvDuUNt @world`, i see a tree of packages, but i don't know from which repository are they coming. this concerns me since i got 2 overlays added, and it would be useful for me to verify that i'm not accidently emerging the wrong package from a layman repo that i had for something else. (extra question to keep you isolated a lil longer: some one laughed at my `-aqvDuUNt` but didn't tell me why. is there anything stupid about it?) rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mail cannot send emails (trying to use it with smartd)
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:49 AM, Michael wrote: > I have not configured nullmailer to know its internals, but assuming you have > not removed '127.0.0.1 localhost' from your /etc/hosts it should work. interesting. i had (no work): `127.0.0.1localhost myhostname` but it only worked when i swapped order of `myhostname`: `127.0.0.1myhostname localhost` so now it's working, but me surprise! me cannot sense. do u sense?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mail cannot send emails (trying to use it with smartd)
On Friday, April 3, 2020 10:42 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > nullmailer is now configured, and test with`echo "Subject: ..." | sendmail -v > m...@dom.com` works. but, smartd's test mail is not working, with this error: > > Apr 03 10:15:09 blah smartd[219171]: Test of to m...@dom.com produced > unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: > > Apr 03 10:15:09 blah smartd[219171]: mail: cannot send message: Process > exited with a non-zero status > Apr 03 10:15:09 blah smartd[219171]: Test of to m...@dom.com: > failed (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 9216/36) > > > tried to test`mail` in isolation: > > echo "test body" | mail -s "test subj" m...@dom.com --debug-level=3 > mail: sendmail binary: /usr/sbin/sendmail > mail: source=system, name=me, passwd=x, uid=1000, gid=1000, gecos=, > dir=/home/me, shell=/bin/fish, mailbox=.maildir, quota=0, change_uid=1 > mail: source=system, name=me, passwd=x, uid=1000, gid=1000, gecos=, > dir=/home/me, shell=/bin/fish, mailbox=.maildir, quota=0, change_uid=1 > mail: mu_mailer_send_message(): using From: me@localhost > mail: Sending headers... > mail: Sending body... > mail: /usr/sbin/sendmail exited with: 1 > mail: progmailer error: Process exited with a non-zero status > mail: cannot send message: Process exited with a non-zero status > mail: source=system, name=me, passwd=x, uid=1000, gid=1000, gecos=, > dir=/home/me, shell=/bin/fish, mailbox=.maildir, quota=0, change_uid=1 > > i've also monitored `watch -n .1 tree /var/spool/nullmailer/` and verified > that > the queue never gets filled with any message when i use the `mail` command > (which, i think, is what `smartd` uses). but, the queues get filled when i > used `sendmail` by the command in my 1st paragraph. extra info: i've just found that it only fails when sender address is `@locahost`. if i manually execute `mail` with `-aFrom:lol@safsdfsd` it will work, even tho the `From:...` is total garbage. but somehow just can't work when `From:lol@localhost`. something personal going on with `mail` and `localhost`. any idea what's going on? and what did i do wrong? hence what's the most elegant way to fix this?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mail cannot send emails (trying to use it with smartd)
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 6:18 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: > Nullmailer is also a good option with the added bonus of queueing > outbound mail while you're offline.: nullmailer is now configured, and test with `echo "Subject: ..." | sendmail -v m...@dom.com` works. but, smartd's test mail is not working, with this error: Apr 03 10:15:09 blah smartd[219171]: Test of to m...@dom.com produced unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: Apr 03 10:15:09 blah smartd[219171]: mail: cannot send message: Process exited with a non-zero status Apr 03 10:15:09 blah smartd[219171]: Test of to m...@dom.com: failed (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 9216/36) tried to test `mail` in isolation: echo "test body" | mail -s "test subj" m...@dom.com --debug-level=3 mail: sendmail binary: /usr/sbin/sendmail mail: source=system, name=me, passwd=x, uid=1000, gid=1000, gecos=, dir=/home/me, shell=/bin/fish, mailbox=.maildir, quota=0, change_uid=1 mail: source=system, name=me, passwd=x, uid=1000, gid=1000, gecos=, dir=/home/me, shell=/bin/fish, mailbox=.maildir, quota=0, change_uid=1 mail: mu_mailer_send_message(): using From: me@localhost mail: Sending headers... mail: Sending body... mail: /usr/sbin/sendmail exited with: 1 mail: progmailer error: Process exited with a non-zero status mail: cannot send message: Process exited with a non-zero status mail: source=system, name=me, passwd=x, uid=1000, gid=1000, gecos=, dir=/home/me, shell=/bin/fish, mailbox=.maildir, quota=0, change_uid=1 i've also monitored `watch -n .1 tree /var/spool/nullmailer/` and verified that the queue never gets filled with any message when i use the `mail` command (which, i think, is what `smartd` uses). but, the queues get filled when i used `sendmail` by the command in my 1st paragraph. i like the queue functionality, so it is definitely more suitable for me than ssmtp. but i'm disappointed that it requires the service nullmailer to be running all the time. it should -imo- run in a triggered way upon calling sendmail, and should run once at bootup just to check if queue is not empty. and, if it runs, and is unable to empty the queue (e.g. due to no network availability) then it shall remain running until the network is back and the queue is empty. but, currently, it seems that the null mailer is just always running. disappoint!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mail cannot send emails (trying to use it with smartd)
On Friday, April 3, 2020 6:23 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2020-04-03, Caveman Al Toraboran toraboracave...@protonmail.com wrote: > > > though i'm a bit curious about sendmail (if your > > time allows). do you mean the ebuild "sendmail"? > > Yes. I meant the program provided by the "sendmail" ebuild. That is > the MTA named "sendmail" that's been around since the universe cooled > enough to form atoms: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sendmail > > For many years it was the de-facto standard MTA for Unix systems. > > It's very powerful but the configuration file format is almost > impossible to understand, so people developed an m4 application that > accepted a slightly less cryptic language and generated the sendmail > configuration file. At it's peak back in the early 90's there were > approximately five people in the world who actually understood > sendmail, and none of them ever worked where you did. The rest of us > stumbled in the dark using the finely honed cargo-cult practices > cutting and pasting random snippets out of example configurations to > see what happened. Usually what happed is that mail was lost or flew > around in a loop multiplying to the point where a disk parition filled > up. > > That said, sendmail has features that no other MTA has. For example, > it can transfer mail using all sorts of different protocols that > nobody uses these days. > > Back in the 90's a number of replacement MTAs were developed such as > qmail, postfix, exim, etc. When you installed one of these, (instead > of the classic sendmail), they would usually provide an executable > file named "sendmail" that accepted the same command line arguments > and input format that the original did. That allowed applications who > wanted to send email to remain ignorant about exactly what MTA was > installed. > > Exim, postfix, qmail and the others were all still full-function MTAs > intended for a multi-users system. They could route mail to different > destinations (including delivering it locally to a variety of mailbox > types) and accept inbound email from other MTAs. While they were far > easier to set up and maintain than the original sendmail, they were > still massive overkill for a computer that was used only by a single > person where reading mail was done via POP/IMAP and all outbound mail > was handed over to a single outside mail relay. They often didn't > deal well with the fact that they were running on a host that didn't > have a "real" hostname that meant anything to the outside world, and > that the local hostname had nothing to do with the email addresses of > the user(s). > > For that use case, simple MTAs like msmtp, ssmtp, and nullmailer were > written that don't handle incoming mail at all, and where all outbound > mail is sent to a single mail relay host. The first two don't even do > any queuing: if you try to send mail when your relay host is > unreachable, then the send simply fails. > > These too, when installed, provide an executable named "sendmail" that > accepts the same command line options and input format as the original. wow, didn't know sendmail's syntax was so hard it needed a compiler :D thank you very much for your help. highly appreciated. rgrds, cm
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mail cannot send emails (trying to use it with smartd)
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 6:18 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: > Then DO NOT use sendmail. Sendmail is only for the ultra-professional > who already knows how to configure it (not joking). > > If all your mail gets sent via a single SMTP server at your ISP (or > wherever), then Sendmail is definitely not what you want. > > If you don't need local queueing (so you can send email while > offline), then I'd pick ssmtp. NB: ssmtp is a bit old and in need of > a ebuild maintainer, so might not be my first choice if I wasn't > already familiar it. > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SSMTP > > Nullmailer is also a good option with the added bonus of queueing > outbound mail while you're offline.: > > https://github.com/bruceg/nullmailer > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nullmailer > > If you want something even more sophisticated (e.g. something that can > deliver mail locally and receive inbound mail using SMTP), then postfix > or exim would probably the be the next step up: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Postfix > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Postfix > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Exim > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Exim > > I've read claims that there are things you can do with sendmail that > Exim or Postfix can't handle, but I'm not sure I believe it. I am > sure I'll never need to do any of those things. thanks a lot for this info. highly appreciated. i'll go with nullmailer (imo suits me best). though i'm a bit curious about sendmail (if your time allows). do you mean the ebuild "sendmail"? or the command "sendmail"? i used to think it's a swiss-army kind of tool (used to call "sendmail" in my cgi scripts decades ago without any infrastructure; by just directly zapping recipient's smtp gateway).
[gentoo-user] how do you monitor your pc?
currently i have two i3 tiles open on one of my monitors: * one shows `journalctl -f`, which shows things from smartd, sudo attempts, and maybe soon also arpwatch. (btw, any other monitoring apps that you recommend?) * another shows `watch 'dmesg -T` for kernely things not showing up in `journalcdl`. [question 1] i wonder how do you monitor your pc? [question 2] i'm thinking to put my `journalctl -f` as a wallpaper that keeps updating. how to do this? conky? better than conky? rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mail cannot send emails (trying to use it with smartd)
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 10:20 AM, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > On 2020-04-01 03:51, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > > why can't `mail` send emails? below is some info. > > Normally the mail program works by execing /usr/sbin/sendmail to to the > hard part :-P Do you have it? It doesn't have to be the "real" > sendmail - any MTA program you install usually makes a symlink from > /usr/sbin/sendmail to itself. i got sendmail around. but didn't do any configurations. what's the minimum configuration to do? i'm really not planning anything ultra-professional. i hope it to send an email the shameless style (just send an smtp message to the smtp server where my email is hosted)
[gentoo-user] mail cannot send emails (trying to use it with smartd)
why can't `mail` send emails? below is some info. from journalctl: > Apr 01 03:55:17 blah smartd[11693]: mail: cannot send message: Process exited > with a non-zero status i did `equery belongs mail`, and i got: > dev-python/twisted-19.10.0 (/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/twisted/mail) > dev-python/twisted-19.10.0 (/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/twisted/mail) > net-mail/mailutils-3.9 (/usr/bin/mail) > net-mail/mailutils-3.9 (/bin/mail -> ../usr/bin/mail) > net-mail/mailutils-3.9 (/etc/mailutils.d/mail) then `whereis mail`: > mail: /usr/bin/mail /bin/mail /usr/share/man/man1/mail.1.bz2 so i guess this means that i'm using the `mail` from mailutils. rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] repair uefi vfat /boot?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, March 23, 2020 3:33 PM, Michael wrote: > 'man smartctl' provides some explanation with regards to reading the Attribute > values reported by the firmware of the disk, as does Wikipedia: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.#Known_ATA_S.M.A.R.T._attributes > > However, with Seagate drives in particular reported values by the firmware are > counterintuitive and can cause confusion: > > http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/Seagate_SER_RRER_HEC.html > > Not withstanding the above, if you look under the section "-A --attributes" in > the manual you'll see the following. If an attribute type is of type 'Pre- > fail' and is equal or less than the Threshold value then there is a problem. > If the WHEN_FAILED column shows a dash, this means the drive has not failed > yet with respect to this attribute. > > Looking at your SMART table we can see no attribute has failed completely yet, > but we see some potentially worrying signs too. > > There have been a number of (ID 1) Raw Read Errors and also (ID 195) Hardware > ECC Recovered sectors. However, there are a large number of (ID 187) Reported > Uncorrectable errors - these are sectors the Hardware ECC failed to correct. > > The next value (ID 188) Command Timeout is also of some concern, showing a > count of 30 aborted operations by the HDD. > > There are also some Bad Blocks, with a raw value of 49. If you see this > number increasing over time, it means potentially more and more of your data > can be lost. It would explain for example why some of the files you stored in > the vfat partition are showing a size of zero. The value of (ID 197) Current > Pending Sector of 12 is also worrying - there are 12 sectors waiting to be > remapped to a more healthy part of the disk because of unrecoverable read > errors. The following attribute (ID 198) Offline Uncorrectable Error counts > also shows 12. These are indications your hard disk is failing probably due > to some platter surface damage and you should take all data off it. At some > point it will fail completely and until then loss of data is likely to > increase. amazing help :). thank you very much for walking me throughout this. highly appreciated. from now on, will start the smart daemon + some raid solution (after replacing faulty disk). (side note: and psu's fuse blew up a few days ago. fortunately important data is backed up. but i wonder if this is related? or is it just that i'm unlucky?) rgrds, cm
Re: [gentoo-user] repair uefi vfat /boot?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Sunday, March 22, 2020 12:50 PM, Michael wrote: > What Stefan said - the disk is on its way out and autorecovery of bad sectors > is failing. You could run: > > smartctl -a /dev/sda > > to see what errors it reports, but in the first instance if the data on this > disk is valuable I suggest you get another disk and immediately transfer all > useful/recoverable files off this drive. If the value of the data is not > high/irreplaceable, then carry on using it - it may take years and years > before it fails completely. > > To reallocate a bad block on your disk and hope more won't arrive overnight, > have a read at this page: > > https://www.smartmontools.org/wiki/BadBlockHowto i get this output: https://gist.github.com/Al-Caveman/b3be1a623f20b55de80d0e2eddcda5d4 how to read this? seems very cryptic to me. how is this better than dmest -T? thx.
Re: [gentoo-user] repair uefi vfat /boot?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Sunday, March 22, 2020 11:53 AM, Stefan Schmiedl wrote: > Messages like > > > > [sda] tag#6 Sense Key : Medium Error [current] > > > > [sda] tag#6 Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error - auto reallocate failed > > usually point towards towards problems with the magnetic layer > on the disk. These do not get better over time, they only get > worse. > > Then we have "auto reallocate failed", which means that the HD > controller tried to reassign the damaged sector to another working > sector, unsuccessfully. > > > what do you think? > > If there is anything of value on the disk, get a new one right now. done (fortunately important data got backed up). any idea why 1 partition (uefi vfat) is suffering errors, but the other ext4 isn't?
Re: [gentoo-user] repair uefi vfat /boot?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, March 21, 2020 8:03 PM, Stefan Schmiedl wrote: > "Caveman Al Toraboran" toraboracave...@protonmail.com, 21.03.2020, 14:49: > > > questions: > > * what's going on? > > * how to find out? > > "dmesg -T" is your friend. It should show the error messages > with their timestamps. > > > * how to fix? > > For spinning HDs: > > If the error messages point towards faulty sectors that can't be > written, get a new drive and migrate your data. If the messages > don't contain sectors, check and/or replace the cabling. If the > problem persists, get a new drive etc... i get this: http://codepad.org/MVeqeBBu it mentions "sector", but not sure if it is what you mean. what do you think?
[gentoo-user] repair uefi vfat /boot?
questions: * what's going on? * how to find out? * how to fix? symptoms: * can't write (gives read/write error). * but files can get created and deleted. * newly created files, which also have failed writes have 0 bytes in them. * mount /dev/sda1 /boot is slow. * umount /boot is slow. cave ~ # fsck.vfat -v -a -w /dev/sda1 fsck.fat 4.1 (2017-01-24) Checking we can access the last sector of the filesystem 0x41: Dirty bit is set. Fs was not properly unmounted and some data may be corrupt. Automatically removing dirty bit. Boot sector contents: System ID "mkfs.fat" Media byte 0xf8 (hard disk) 512 bytes per logical sector 4096 bytes per cluster 32 reserved sectors First FAT starts at byte 16384 (sector 32) 2 FATs, 32 bit entries 565248 bytes per FAT (= 1104 sectors) Root directory start at cluster 2 (arbitrary size) Data area starts at byte 1146880 (sector 2240) 140520 data clusters (575569920 bytes) 63 sectors/track, 255 heads 2048 hidden sectors 1126400 sectors total Got 4096 bytes instead of 562088 at 16384 thoughts? rgrds, cm. Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
[gentoo-user] emerge --sync using tor by default?
hi - is that true? it seems to be using it automatically when tor.service is running. what's the point? e.g. is it made to ensure that we reduce the probability of having a single man in the middle that may consistently fool us? by replacing it by varying men in the middle that is harder for them to coordinate a consistent lie? and what do you recommend me to do in order look like the cool kids? rgrds, cm.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: New laptop - AMD or Intel?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Wednesday, March 11, 2020 11:17 PM, james wrote: > On 3/9/20 2:53 PM, Michael wrote: > > Intel/nvidia sold their souls to satan, a long time ago, from my > perspective as a christian, ymmv. [Citation needed].
Re: [gentoo-user] Nice job,
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Sunday, March 8, 2020 2:02 PM, Michael wrote: > > atg@tortoise ~ $ konsole > > QCommandLineParser: already having an option named "h" > > QCommandLineParser: already having an option named "help-all" > > QCommandLineParser: already having an option named "v" i get this warning/error in gentoo and archlinux (without cannot mix ...etc).
[gentoo-user] anything new in kernel 5.5.6 that makes boot slower (some extra file system checks?)
hi - is title right? if so, what is going on? rgrds, cm. Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. (this is a lie obviously)
Re: [gentoo-user] how to lbry desktop?
thx but, some other error i noticed: says keytar something 127, when running `yarn`. btw why is lbry so horrible? can't they just make a normal app? == snippet start == caveman@cave ~/D/d/lbry-desktop> yarn yarn install v1.21.1 $ yarn cache clean lbry-redux && yarn cache clean lbryinc yarn cache v1.21.1 success Cleared package "lbry-redux" from cache Done in 0.79s. yarn cache v1.21.1 success Cleared package "lbryinc" from cache Done in 0.84s. [1/5] Validating package.json... [2/5] Resolving packages... [3/5] Fetching packages... info fsevents@1.2.11: The platform "linux" is incompatible with this module. info "fsevents@1.2.11" is an optional dependency and failed compatibility check. Excluding it from installation. [4/5] Linking dependencies... warning " > lbryinc@0.0.1" has incorrect peer dependency "lbry-redux@lbryio/lbry-redux". [5/5] Building fresh packages... [9/9] ⠂ nodemon [8/9] ⠂ node-sass [3/9] ⠂ keytar [7/9] ⠂ lbryinc error /home/caveman/Documents/dev/lbry-desktop/node_modules/keytar: Command failed. Exit code: 127 Command: prebuild-install || node-gyp rebuild Arguments: Directory: /home/caveman/Documents/dev/lbry-desktop/node_modules/keytar == snippet end == rgrds, cm. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:59 PM, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > On Thu, Jan 16, 2020, at 10:27, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > > this: > > https://github.com/lbryio/lbry-desktop#running-from-source > > > > doesn't work. i did `yarn dev:web` (and without web) and i don't see > > anything > > usable. with `:web` i get a browser opened, but it doesn't show anything. > > without `:web` it just says that render compilation complete, and gets stuck > > there. ctrl^c shows `killing threads...`. > > > > wat's the best way? is there even a best way? > > > > rgrds, > > cm. > > `yarn dev:web-server' works for me. > > HTH, > > Alec
