Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 4:59 AM Michael wrote: > > Most Linux live media should work. Some additional steps may be required > compared to a Gentoo Live-CD. Not really. The process is the same. Most of that webpage is just a disclaimer that if you're having trouble with some odd livecd you may or may not get help. About the only commands you need on the livecd are those needed to partition, create the filesystem, and chroot. So a super-minimal one would not be ideal, but if you don't know what mkfs is you might not want to use Gentoo as your first distro. :) A lot of the more involved stuff on that page is for things like PXE-based install or other exotic configs. Yes, if you want to flash your system with coreboot and then directly boot an iso hosted on a website behind a VPN then there will be more steps than if you want to just boot off of a USB stick like normal mortals. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Saturday, 3 October 2020 08:37:54 BST Jude DaShiell wrote: > vinux is abandonware though for an installer environment still may work. > I've never used one installer system to install another system myself > though so if that's what we try it will be a new experience for me. Most Linux live media should work. Some additional steps may be required compared to a Gentoo Live-CD. If you take a look at section "Installation from non-Gentoo LiveCDs" in the following Gentoo wiki page, you'll get an understanding of what is involved: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Installation_alternatives Hope this helps. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
vinux is abandonware though for an installer environment still may work. I've never used one installer system to install another system myself though so if that's what we try it will be a new experience for me. On Fri, 2 Oct 2020, Neil Bothwick wrote: > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 11:47:26 > From: Neil Bothwick > Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems > > On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:51:22 -0400, John Covici wrote: > > > OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and > > I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest > > has that in the kernel. > > What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually > impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and > magnification. > > > --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 13:06:11 -0400, John Covici wrote: > > What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually > > impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and > > magnification. > > I have heard of that distro, there are some others like it as well, I > doubt it has zfs, but thanks for the thought. > I will see if the ubuntu live has what I need. It's based on Ubuntu so it may still have zfs. -- Neil Bothwick Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Hey, where are you going? pgpBdxM0sWJeb.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 11:47:26 -0400, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > [1 ] > On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:51:22 -0400, John Covici wrote: > > > OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and > > I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest > > has that in the kernel. > > What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually > impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and > magnification. I have heard of that distro, there are some others like it as well, I doubt it has zfs, but thanks for the thought. I will see if the ubuntu live has what I need. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
Rich Freeman wrote: > On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:23 AM Peter Humphrey wrote: >> I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single >> problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every >> time. >> > Personally I tend to use Ubuntu - mainly because it just gives you a > nice desktop experience and just works. I can easily fire up a full > browser, open all the xterms I want, and so on. I really don't care > about its pros/cons long-term because it is just a livecd - the > installed OS ends up the same no matter what distro you use to boot > off of. It all runs in a chroot so the only OS component that really > impacts the install is the kernel. > > But there are lots of choices. I don't really have a problem with > Gentoo having its own minimal iso, but I do encourage people to use > something more functional, simply because there are already a ton of > good livecds out there, and Gentoo doesn't really need to invent its > own. Since you only use the livecd image for an hour in the lifetime > of the entire system, it has pretty minimal impact on the overall > experience, even if it is the first thing you see. So, why not take > advantage of the polish other distros have put into theirs? > I think I used Knoppix once and it worked fine. As you say tho, about anything Linux will work. Just another option, in case someone reading this needs it. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 14:43:43 - (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: > >>> I dunno. I tested the installer thing when it was first announced >>> years ago. It failed to install. It kept getting hung somewhere but >>> with no output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or >>> what to fix. >> Isn't that how automated installers are supposed to work? >> >> ;) > Only after they've reformatted your disk :( > > You guys are getting to funny. There's nothing like a installer deciding you didn't partition your drives right and fixing it without asking. :/ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 14:43:43 - (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: > > I dunno. I tested the installer thing when it was first announced > > years ago. It failed to install. It kept getting hung somewhere but > > with no output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or > > what to fix. > > Isn't that how automated installers are supposed to work? > > ;) Only after they've reformatted your disk :( -- Neil Bothwick Favorite Windoze game: Guess what this icon does? pgpVFuyewSOnB.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:51:22 -0400, John Covici wrote: > OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and > I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest > has that in the kernel. What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and magnification. -- Neil Bothwick LISP: Lots of Infuriating & Silly Parentheses pgpIlqI967hW_.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:51 AM John Covici wrote: > > > OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and > I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest > has that in the kernel. > Yeah, I get that, though I think the ubuntu livecd has a text console option - for servers it is the sort of thing people will want. -- Rich
[gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On 2020-10-02, Dale wrote: > I dunno. I tested the installer thing when it was first announced > years ago. It failed to install. It kept getting hung somewhere but > with no output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or > what to fix. Isn't that how automated installers are supposed to work? ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:38:54 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:32 AM John Covici wrote: > > > > Is there anything more recent I c an use as a rescue disk? I have > > version 5.1 but after that, not sure what they did, but could not even > > get a decent root prompt and I do need zfs, otherwise there are many > > options. > > > > Don't want to beat a dead horse, but zfs is also one of the reasons I > use the ubuntu cds. It is easy to get zfs running on an ubuntu > livecd. I forget if it is preinstalled, but I'm pretty sure it is all > packaged so it is basically a 1-2 liner to add it. I haven't looked > at it recently but the Funtoo docs suggest doing the same which is > where I got the tip. > > At the time systemrescuecd didn't support zfs out of copyright > concerns. Perhaps that has changed. People have strong feelings on > zfs. I get them, though it is 100% FOSS (even if the licensing was > engineered to cause GPL issues). IMO the biggest technical issue with > using it on linux is that it basically pulls in a bunch of other BSD > logic around stuff like caching so it isn't super-clean from a kernel > perspective. However, that is also part of why it is so stable - they > basically containerized the thing so that they didn't have a bazillion > regressions, and I think they've been slowly working on getting rid of > the middle layers. > OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest has that in the kernel. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:32 AM John Covici wrote: > > Is there anything more recent I c an use as a rescue disk? I have > version 5.1 but after that, not sure what they did, but could not even > get a decent root prompt and I do need zfs, otherwise there are many > options. > Don't want to beat a dead horse, but zfs is also one of the reasons I use the ubuntu cds. It is easy to get zfs running on an ubuntu livecd. I forget if it is preinstalled, but I'm pretty sure it is all packaged so it is basically a 1-2 liner to add it. I haven't looked at it recently but the Funtoo docs suggest doing the same which is where I got the tip. At the time systemrescuecd didn't support zfs out of copyright concerns. Perhaps that has changed. People have strong feelings on zfs. I get them, though it is 100% FOSS (even if the licensing was engineered to cause GPL issues). IMO the biggest technical issue with using it on linux is that it basically pulls in a bunch of other BSD logic around stuff like caching so it isn't super-clean from a kernel perspective. However, that is also part of why it is so stable - they basically containerized the thing so that they didn't have a bazillion regressions, and I think they've been slowly working on getting rid of the middle layers. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:23 AM Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single > problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every > time. > Personally I tend to use Ubuntu - mainly because it just gives you a nice desktop experience and just works. I can easily fire up a full browser, open all the xterms I want, and so on. I really don't care about its pros/cons long-term because it is just a livecd - the installed OS ends up the same no matter what distro you use to boot off of. It all runs in a chroot so the only OS component that really impacts the install is the kernel. But there are lots of choices. I don't really have a problem with Gentoo having its own minimal iso, but I do encourage people to use something more functional, simply because there are already a ton of good livecds out there, and Gentoo doesn't really need to invent its own. Since you only use the livecd image for an hour in the lifetime of the entire system, it has pretty minimal impact on the overall experience, even if it is the first thing you see. So, why not take advantage of the polish other distros have put into theirs? -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:23:57 -0400, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > (Kmail seems to have stopped quoting the message I'm replying to.) > > I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single > problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every > time. > > I don't know what version it is, but it must have been about the last they > issued before switching to Arch. Is there anything more recent I c an use as a rescue disk? I have version 5.1 but after that, not sure what they did, but could not even get a decent root prompt and I do need zfs, otherwise there are many options. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2020-10-02, Dale wrote: > >> I was talking about the Gentoo installer. > Huh. Didn't know there was one. Is this it? > > https://blogs.gentoo.org/chrisadr/2018/05/02/installer-a-basic-gentoo-system-anyone-can-install/ > > > > I dunno. I tested the installer thing when it was first announced years ago. It failed to install. It kept getting hung somewhere but with no output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or what to fix. I ditched it into the trash and went back to the trusty manual install. I think the OP has vision problems. I guess a installer of some sort would be easier in that case, provided it doesn't error out with no output. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
(Kmail seems to have stopped quoting the message I'm replying to.) I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every time. I don't know what version it is, but it must have been about the last they issued before switching to Arch. -- Regards, Peter.
[gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On 2020-10-02, Dale wrote: > I was talking about the Gentoo installer. Huh. Didn't know there was one. Is this it? https://blogs.gentoo.org/chrisadr/2018/05/02/installer-a-basic-gentoo-system-anyone-can-install/
[gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
On 2020-10-02, Rich Freeman wrote: > As far as the minimal CD goes, you an just create mountpoints, but > really I'm not sure why anybody uses it in the first place. I usually use it. When I've tried to use systemrescuecd, I usually ran into issues: you couldn't follow the handbook step-by-step and expect it to work (IIRC, something to do with chroot?). There were fairly simple work-arounds, but it took time to figure out what was wrong and what to do about it. -- Grant
[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems on AMD64 box
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IFIFY? $ wtf IFIFY IFIFY: nothing appropriate I fixed it for you, indicating that the quoted text has been altered. More common IME is IFYPFY, for I fixed your post for you, but that's also unknown to wtf. Hmm, IME is also unknown to wtf. WTF? -- »Q« Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.
[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:44:32 +0100, Mike Williams wrote: Gut reaction, firewire. I've seen exactly the same on my own boxes. Debian is doing the same too, so I'd just go add a net.eth1 symlink change your config and use that instead, just don't remove firewire networking support, or you ethernet interface may become eth0 (udev might save you). After my son, Henk Boom, who was an earlier gentoo adopter in my household, showed me just where the net.eth1 symlink had to go, it all boots properly. Thanks. I had never dreamed that firewire would be recognised as an ethernet! - hendrik -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:33:20 + (UTC), Hendrik Boom wrote: After my son, Henk Boom, who was an earlier gentoo adopter in my household, showed me just where the net.eth1 symlink had to go, it all boots properly. Thanks. I had never dreamed that firewire would be recognised as an ethernet! It is if you have CONFIG_IEEE1394_ETH1394 set in your kernel. If you want your standard ethernet to be eth0, swap over NAME settings in the definitions in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules. -- Neil Bothwick TEXAS VIRUS: Makes sure that it's bigger than any other file. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 22:42:43 +0100, Mike Williams wrote: On Sunday 15 July 2007 22:00:15 Hendrik Boom wrote: Fixed /etc/fstab so that it now refers to /dev/lovesong/gentoo. And fstab gets the message, because it now complains that there's no /dev/lovesong/gentoo. And when I get a shell, I discover that it's right. There is now no /etc/lovesong at all. /dev/mapper exists, but it contains only /dev/mapper/control. using your workaround of changing the pass from 1 to 0 in the /etc/fstab file, it boots. But I still have no access to the other partitions on the disk. I still have no /dev/lovesong. except of course that /dev/lovesong/gentoo has been mounted. And /dev/mapper still contains only /dev/mapper/control. Hmm, more interesting. Sounds like you don't have lvm2 (sys-fs/lvm2) installed. Genkernel pulls it's own version in to build the initrd/ramfs, but the actual install will need it merged separately to start LVM at boot. If you get Gentoo booted you could try manually starting LVM: vgscan pvscan vgchange -ay It's vgchange -ay that makes all logical volumes in all volume groups available, the two scans just makes sure device mapper is aware of all devices and volumes. -- Mike Williams It took some trouble -- as of now I only have emerge working in the chroot from Debian -- but after installing lvm2 it is not cheerfully recognising all the LVM paritions at boot. Now for the next problem. emerge doesn't work because the net connexion is down. Presulably it would be OK if I had a local repository, but iI don't. If I ping my internet gateway machine, 172.25.1.1. it tells me PING 172.25.1.1 (172.25.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. --- 172.25.1.1 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 2003ms whereas when I do the same from Debian, PING 172.25.1.1 (172.25.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 172.25.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=0.811 ms 64 bytes from 172.25.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=0.364 ms --- 172.25.1.1 ping statistics --- 2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 999ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.364/0.587/0.811/0.224 ms Here's the routing table, obtained with route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface 172.25.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 00 eth0 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 00 lo 0.0.0.0 172.25.1.1 0.0.0.0 UG0 00 eth0 And the same from Debian: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface 172.25.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 00 eth1 0.0.0.0 172.25.1.1 0.0.0.0 UG0 00 eth1 Except for lo (which I can wonder about anon) the most striking difference is that gentoo uses eth0; whereas Debian uses eth1. Now as far as I know, there's only one ethernet interface on this machine. But I could be wrong. I do know that there's just one place to plug the cable into the back. Running ifconfig to find out more, especially to see if the MAC addresses are different: On gentoo: eth0 Link encap:UNSPEC HWaddr 00-06-BB-00-16-03-49-D6-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00 inet addr:172.25.1.4 Bcast:172.25.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:8 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:288 (288.0 b) loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:448 (448.0 b) TX bytes:448 (448.0 b) and on Debian: eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:0C:6E:50:27:B1 inet addr:172.25.1.4 Bcast:172.25.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::20c:6eff:fe50:27b1/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:33028 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:32429 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:26715240 (25.4 MiB) TX bytes:25032114 (23.8 MiB) Interrupt:177 Base address:0xc000 loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:54 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:54 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:4468 (4.3 KiB) TX bytes:4468 (4.3 KiB) Now that's a surprise. Quite
[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:03:57 +, Hendrik Boom wrote: It took some trouble -- as of now I only have emerge working in the chroot from Debian -- but after installing lvm2 it is not cheerfully recognising all the LVM paritions at boot. Ah! Stupid typo! it is *NOW* cheerfully recognising all the LVM partitions at boot. Why doesn't English have a better Hamming distance between words? :-) -- hendrik -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems
On Tuesday 17 July 2007 17:03:57 Hendrik Boom wrote: It took some trouble -- as of now I only have emerge working in the chroot from Debian -- but after installing lvm2 it is not cheerfully recognising all the LVM paritions at boot. All a good learning process, glad you got it working. Oh and you're right, english sucks, and I'm english. Now for the next problem. emerge doesn't work because the net connexion is down. Presulably it would be OK if I had a local repository, but iI don't. Except for lo (which I can wonder about anon) the most striking difference is that gentoo uses eth0; whereas Debian uses eth1. It's better that lo is there, but obviously isn't necessary as Debian doesn't have it. Now as far as I know, there's only one ethernet interface on this machine. But I could be wrong. I do know that there's just one place to plug the cable into the back. ifconfig -a, will show all recognised interfaces. Running ifconfig to find out more, especially to see if the MAC addresses are different: Now that's a surprise. Quite sone difference! Debian gives ma an ordinary 48-bit hardware address. Gentoo gives a 128-bit hardware address! And the bits of the 48-bit address aren't even recognisable in the 128-bit address. Now I understand that hardware addresses have been getting longer, but O haven't been adding ethernet chips to this machine since I bought it, so they should all be of the same vintage. What gives? Gut reaction, firewire. I've seen exactly the same on my own boxes. Debian is doing the same too, so I'd just go add a net.eth1 symlink change your config and use that instead, just don't remove firewire networking support, or you ethernet interface may become eth0 (udev might save you). Here's the output from gentoo-s lspci -v: 03:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Agere Systems FW323 (rev 04) (prog-if 10 [OHCI]) Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 5811 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 19 Memory at ed00 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2 Bingo, firewire. -- Mike Williams -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems
On Tuesday 17 July 2007 19:44, Mike Williams wrote: What gives? Gut reaction, firewire. I've seen exactly the same on my own boxes. Debian is doing the same too, so I'd just go add a net.eth1 symlink change your config and use that instead, just don't remove firewire networking support, or you ethernet interface may become eth0 (udev might save you). Here's the output from gentoo-s lspci -v: 03:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Agere Systems FW323 (rev 04) (prog-if 10 [OHCI]) Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 5811 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 19 Memory at ed00 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2 Bingo, firewire. Also check with lshw (if you have a LiveCD) -- Regards, Mick pgpkrTVmlveaK.pgp Description: PGP signature
