Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

On Sunday, 12 January 2020 17:50:22 GMT Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 10:24 AM Wols Lists 
> 
> wrote:
> > On 12/01/20 16:36, Mick wrote:
> > > Hmm ... I can see how Microsoft's move to cloud computing for home
> 
> users can
> 
> > > quickly escalate to a spiral of confusion and annoyance.
> > 
> > The problem, of course, is it assumes reliable fast internet ...
> > 
> > At home, last I looked I couldn't upgrade with my current provider from
> > ADSL2, and it regularly broke of an evening with, I think, other users
> > streaming via the same uplink (I guess bufferbloat meant they got good
> > download service, me being far more up-and-down it was appalling ... :-(
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol
> 
> In the last month or two I've read that M$ has shutoff the download of iso
> files. When I went through my update this week I was forced (but not
> bothered) to run their exe file that creates a bootable USB drive. I
> wondered at the time how people who aren't currently running Windows would
> do that but it didn't effect my needs. Possibly that's more robust for you
> with your ADSL?

MSWindows 10 ISO downloads are still available, I just checked:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10ISO

-- 
Regards,

Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 10:24 AM Wols Lists 
wrote:
>
> On 12/01/20 16:36, Mick wrote:
> > Hmm ... I can see how Microsoft's move to cloud computing for home
users can
> > quickly escalate to a spiral of confusion and annoyance.
>
> The problem, of course, is it assumes reliable fast internet ...
>
> At home, last I looked I couldn't upgrade with my current provider from
> ADSL2, and it regularly broke of an evening with, I think, other users
> streaming via the same uplink (I guess bufferbloat meant they got good
> download service, me being far more up-and-down it was appalling ... :-(
>
> Cheers,
> Wol

In the last month or two I've read that M$ has shutoff the download of iso
files. When I went through my update this week I was forced (but not
bothered) to run their exe file that creates a bootable USB drive. I
wondered at the time how people who aren't currently running Windows would
do that but it didn't effect my needs. Possibly that's more robust for you
with your ADSL?

As for the M$ account I already had one so I just logged in and let it
happen as the alternative was to be stuck with a non-updateable Win 7
machine running Native Instruments products and sooner (rather than later)
vendors like NI won't support Win 7 anymore and my investment in electronic
music apps would sunset which I'm not willing to have happen yet. There are
3 machines in my setup, 2 Kubuntu and (now) a Win 10. Mixbus32C (based on
Ardour but completely rebuilt and supported by Harrison Consoles) running
on Kubuntu is a great DAW for the more old-school audio recording I like to
do.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Wols Lists]

On 12/01/20 16:36, Mick wrote:
> Hmm ... I can see how Microsoft's move to cloud computing for home users can 
> quickly escalate to a spiral of confusion and annoyance. 

The problem, of course, is it assumes reliable fast internet ...

At home, last I looked I couldn't upgrade with my current provider from
ADSL2, and it regularly broke of an evening with, I think, other users
streaming via the same uplink (I guess bufferbloat meant they got good
download service, me being far more up-and-down it was appalling ... :-(

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

On Sunday, 12 January 2020 15:02:36 GMT Wols Lists wrote:
> On 12/01/20 13:39, Mick wrote:
> > 2. Obligatory Microsoft Account registration.
> > 
> > Every time I touch a MSWindows OS I get more annoyed than the last time. 
> > I
> > went through the installation process.  During the finishing touches of
> > the
> > installation the OS configured the keyboard, network and then the user
> > account.  Unlike previous Windows 10 installations which offered the
> > option of configuring a local user account, this time I was only given
> > the choice of using or creating a (online) Microsoft Account, by entering
> > (linking to it) my personal email, phone or Skype account.  No option for
> > a local account.  To by-pass this forced Microsoft Account
> > creation/registration I shut down the OS and rebooted without an Internet
> > connection.  This time I was offered the option to create a local
> > account.  I mention this in case you also want to install a recent build
> > ISO of Windows 10 without registering any online Microsoft credentials.
> 
> I think (iirc) that if you go "next" to the actual account creation page
> there is a "skip this" option.

Yes, this used to be the case until more recent ISO builds were made available 
by Microsoft.  The latest 1909 ISO build does not allow you to skip or move to 
the next step without registering or creating a Microsoft Account.


> I know I had this exact situation, but it was mentioned in some mag or
> whatever that gave a - not particularly intuitive - option to skip that
> step. You can try searching online for it ...

I did look for ways to escape this obligatory step and the only way out of it 
was to disconnect the connection to the Internet:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/
set-up-windows-10-without-account/d7c08c1a-0fcc-49ac-96ac-297879dbee6f


> The really annoying thing is that it becomes very easy for anybody to
> log on to your computer using their MS account, and we had a very
> confusing situation where my grandson's online account somehow got
> attached to my wife's local account :-(
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

Hmm ... I can see how Microsoft's move to cloud computing for home users can 
quickly escalate to a spiral of confusion and annoyance.  In your wife's use 
case you could block Microsoft Account logins via the Local Group Security 
Policy editor, after she creates a Local User account:

https://www.isunshare.com/windows-10/2-ways-to-disable-or-block-microsoft-account-in-windows-10.html

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Wols Lists]

On 12/01/20 13:39, Mick wrote:
> 2. Obligatory Microsoft Account registration.
> 
> Every time I touch a MSWindows OS I get more annoyed than the last time.  I 
> went through the installation process.  During the finishing touches of the 
> installation the OS configured the keyboard, network and then the user 
> account.  Unlike previous Windows 10 installations which offered the option 
> of 
> configuring a local user account, this time I was only given the choice of 
> using or creating a (online) Microsoft Account, by entering (linking to it) 
> my 
> personal email, phone or Skype account.  No option for a local account.  To 
> by-pass this forced Microsoft Account creation/registration I shut down the 
> OS 
> and rebooted without an Internet connection.  This time I was offered the 
> option to create a local account.  I mention this in case you also want to 
> install a recent build ISO of Windows 10 without registering any online 
> Microsoft credentials.

I think (iirc) that if you go "next" to the actual account creation page
there is a "skip this" option.

I know I had this exact situation, but it was mentioned in some mag or
whatever that gave a - not particularly intuitive - option to skip that
step. You can try searching online for it ...

The really annoying thing is that it becomes very easy for anybody to
log on to your computer using their MS account, and we had a very
confusing situation where my grandson's online account somehow got
attached to my wife's local account :-(

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

On Friday, 10 January 2020 18:07:29 GMT Mark Knecht wrote:

> Just to close out my part of this what-turned-out-to be-non-Gentoo thread...
> 
> 1) I went down the Clonezilla path never having used it before. It was easy
> to use, cloned the hard drive, Win 10 Home (what was actually installed)
> booted but wasn't reliable and kept crashing. I may not have done this the
> best way, going directly from the old drive to the SSD. Possibly should
> have created an image instead but I didn't know that at the time.

Hmm ... I wonder if this is something to do with TRIM settings and SSD 
drivers, which the original installation probably would not have activated?  I 
don't really know what drivers MSWindows kernel loads or what firmware it 
fetches.  I would think most of this would be automated and a Windows Update 
would sort out any such issues.


> 2) I then went down the path of figuring out how to get human support at
> Microsoft. It turns out that Win 10 has a built in method for moving to a
> new hard drive on the same machine based on creating a system image much
> like I imagine Clonezilla would have done had I chosen that option. I
> created the image, put the SSD into the machine, rebooted from a Win 10 USB
> install flash drive and chose to do the recovery method instead of the
> install. A little while later the machine booted from the SSD and has been
> stable for the last day or two.
> 
> I've dedicated an older WD Green 1TB drive to keeping the system images and
> will image this machine once every few months or so in case I need to do
> this again in the future.
> 
> I'll be back to talk about using Gentoo again soon. Sorry for the noise and
> as always this is one of the very best, most helpful places for good Linux
> info so thanks, thanks, thanks.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark

Let me add two more, slightly unrelated to Gentoo, pieces of info.

1. Microsoft Windows Product Key

As Wol mentioned in a previous post, using a Microsoft Product Key from the 
back of a laptop which has *never* been used before to install a MSWindows OS, 
works as advertised for the same type of MSWindows edition.  I checked the 
Product Key on a 'Windows 7 Home' OEM installation using a VBS script.  This 
was the OEM Product Key and I noticed it was different to the Product Key 
which was on a sticker at the back of the laptop case.

Then I tried using the key on the sticker to activate a 'Windows 10 Pro' 
installation.  It didn't take.  I tried the same 'Windows 7 Home' sticker key 
to activate a 'Windows 10 Home' installation.  It worked!  :-)

2. Obligatory Microsoft Account registration.

Every time I touch a MSWindows OS I get more annoyed than the last time.  I 
went through the installation process.  During the finishing touches of the 
installation the OS configured the keyboard, network and then the user 
account.  Unlike previous Windows 10 installations which offered the option of 
configuring a local user account, this time I was only given the choice of 
using or creating a (online) Microsoft Account, by entering (linking to it) my 
personal email, phone or Skype account.  No option for a local account.  To 
by-pass this forced Microsoft Account creation/registration I shut down the OS 
and rebooted without an Internet connection.  This time I was offered the 
option to create a local account.  I mention this in case you also want to 
install a recent build ISO of Windows 10 without registering any online 
Microsoft credentials.

After I booted into the account I was able to switch off a load of privacy 
invading functionality that comes preconfigured with this OS, inc. 
geolocation, access to my contacts, photos, calls, etc.

I know a Gentoo installation takes longer, but at the same time I find it 
*much* less annoying in every respect.  ;-)

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 9:58 AM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 4:52 AM Mick  wrote:
> >
> > This is getting a tad O/T, since we're talking about activation of a
non-
> > Gentoo OS, but here it goes:
> >
>
> I completely agree. I wasn't expecting the conversation to go this
direction when I posted. I'm happy to participate if others want to.
>
> > On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 00:39:19 GMT Mark Knecht wrote:
> >
> > >I'm going to let the machine sit overnight and see if it activates
> > > automatically.
> >
> > It should activate as long as it is connected to the Internet, but
there are
> > two different ways of activating Windows 10 manually, should you not do
so
> > during the installation procedure.
> >
>
> After maybe 16 hours it didn't activate but logically I don't know why it
would have. I've installed Win 10 using the M$ install tool writing to a
USB flash drive but I'm not given any product IDs/Keys. M$ would have had
to determine on their own with no help from me this was a reinstall and
generously activated it which I think is asking too much.
>
> Owing that I'm not 100% sure the previous install was actually Win 10
Pro, having updated from Win 7 with their free conversion to Win 10, I'm
going to put the old drive back in, double check what version of Win 10 I
was using and then try again if I installed the wrong version this time.
>
> On a more Linux note I'll build a bootable USB drive with clonezilla and
see about cloning the old drive to the new SDD that way. that sort of
solution is why I posted here in the first place. Trying the Win 10 install
and hoping it worked was just an easy 1-day experiment.
>

>
Just to close out my part of this what-turned-out-to be-non-Gentoo thread...

1) I went down the Clonezilla path never having used it before. It was easy
to use, cloned the hard drive, Win 10 Home (what was actually installed)
booted but wasn't reliable and kept crashing. I may not have done this the
best way, going directly from the old drive to the SSD. Possibly should
have created an image instead but I didn't know that at the time.

2) I then went down the path of figuring out how to get human support at
Microsoft. It turns out that Win 10 has a built in method for moving to a
new hard drive on the same machine based on creating a system image much
like I imagine Clonezilla would have done had I chosen that option. I
created the image, put the SSD into the machine, rebooted from a Win 10 USB
install flash drive and chose to do the recovery method instead of the
install. A little while later the machine booted from the SSD and has been
stable for the last day or two.

I've dedicated an older WD Green 1TB drive to keeping the system images and
will image this machine once every few months or so in case I need to do
this again in the future.

I'll be back to talk about using Gentoo again soon. Sorry for the noise and
as always this is one of the very best, most helpful places for good Linux
info so thanks, thanks, thanks.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Wols Lists]

On 09/01/20 11:00, Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 16:42:14 GMT Wols Lists wrote:
>> > On 08/01/20 09:26, Mick wrote:
>>> > > The OS Product Key for a Win 7 will not work on a Win 10, unless the 
>>> > > free
>>> > > upgrade option had been performed before July 2016.  At least it has not
>>> > > worked here ...  You'll need a Product Key, Digital License, or a
>>> > > Microsoft
>>> > > Account which has been linked to an activated Windows 10 Digital 
>>> > > License.
>> > 
>> > I don't know what the date MS announced was, but this tactic certainly
>> > worked after that - I did it myself. The key statement there is "NEVER
>> > been used". If MS recognises the key, it will fail.

> This is interesting!  By a Win7 key which has "never been used" do you mean 
> not even used for activating the Win7 OS?  Or never been used to upgrade Win7 
> to Win10?
> 
> 
Never been used to activate the OS. In other words, this will be TRUE
for any mass-market computer, if you've never got new Windows media for
a clean install.

The Windows that is on the computer when you buy it has been activated
using the manufacturer's bulk activation key. Iirc recent versions of
Windows don't ask for a product key when first run for exactly this
reason. And if you do a factory reset, it's still using the
manufacturer's bulk key. The key that's actually stuck to the computer
is NOT the key that it's using.

MS may have closed this loophole by now, but at the time it was a widely
advertised work-around to the shut down of freebie upgrades.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[john]

Around 1 month ago, I upgraded a Win 7 system to Win 10. I purchased a
new Win 10, but, I never was asked for the Win 10 product key. The
upgrade was performed by running the installer from a running Win 7
rather than booting from the installation media.

On 2020-01-09 04:00, Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 16:42:14 GMT Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 08/01/20 09:26, Mick wrote:
>>> The OS Product Key for a Win 7 will not work on a Win 10, unless the free
>>> upgrade option had been performed before July 2016.  At least it has not
>>> worked here ...  You'll need a Product Key, Digital License, or a
>>> Microsoft
>>> Account which has been linked to an activated Windows 10 Digital License.
>>
>> I don't know what the date MS announced was, but this tactic certainly
>> worked after that - I did it myself. The key statement there is "NEVER
>> been used". If MS recognises the key, it will fail.
> 
> This is interesting!  By a Win7 key which has "never been used" do you mean 
> not even used for activating the Win7 OS?  Or never been used to upgrade Win7 
> to Win10?
> 
> 
>> (I'm actually going to have a crack at it myself again, I've just
>> acquired a Win7 laptop - nice spec - that's pretty much unaltered
>> original so I'm guessing it's never been re-installed and the key used.)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
> 
> Please let us know how this goes.  I have Win7 & Win8.1 installations on 
> various laptops and these were not upgraded to Win10 before the expiry 
> deadline of Jul 2016 and could potentially use them on VMs for testing.
> 

-- 

John R. Shannon
j...@johnrshannon.com



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Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 16:42:14 GMT Wols Lists wrote:
> On 08/01/20 09:26, Mick wrote:
> > The OS Product Key for a Win 7 will not work on a Win 10, unless the free
> > upgrade option had been performed before July 2016.  At least it has not
> > worked here ...  You'll need a Product Key, Digital License, or a
> > Microsoft
> > Account which has been linked to an activated Windows 10 Digital License.
> 
> I don't know what the date MS announced was, but this tactic certainly
> worked after that - I did it myself. The key statement there is "NEVER
> been used". If MS recognises the key, it will fail.

This is interesting!  By a Win7 key which has "never been used" do you mean 
not even used for activating the Win7 OS?  Or never been used to upgrade Win7 
to Win10?


> (I'm actually going to have a crack at it myself again, I've just
> acquired a Win7 laptop - nice spec - that's pretty much unaltered
> original so I'm guessing it's never been re-installed and the key used.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

Please let us know how this goes.  I have Win7 & Win8.1 installations on 
various laptops and these were not upgraded to Win10 before the expiry 
deadline of Jul 2016 and could potentially use them on VMs for testing.
-- 
Regards,

Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Wols Lists]

On 08/01/20 09:26, Mick wrote:
> The OS Product Key for a Win 7 will not work on a Win 10, unless the free 
> upgrade option had been performed before July 2016.  At least it has not 
> worked here ...  You'll need a Product Key, Digital License, or a Microsoft 
> Account which has been linked to an activated Windows 10 Digital License.

I don't know what the date MS announced was, but this tactic certainly
worked after that - I did it myself. The key statement there is "NEVER
been used". If MS recognises the key, it will fail.

(I'm actually going to have a crack at it myself again, I've just
acquired a Win7 laptop - nice spec - that's pretty much unaltered
original so I'm guessing it's never been re-installed and the key used.)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 07:13:19 GMT Wols Lists wrote:
> On 06/01/20 23:37, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > Michael,
> > 
> >I got Win 10 Pro installed via the M$ tool that creates USB install
> > 
> > devices. It worked fine. Reading online it seems that if M$ sees the new
> > disk as still the same 'hardware' then it's supposed to automatically
> > validate and I'd be good to go. so far, after 2 hours it hasn't done
> > that but I'll give it awhile and see what happens. As it only took an
> > hour I might still try the disk copy path and see if that comes up
> > validated as that would also transfer the couple of applications I have
> > on the original hard drive.
> > 
> >Anyway, thanks for the ideas.
> 
> A few more ideas from my experience -
> 
> Have you ever re-installed windows and actually used the licence key
> that came with the laptop? No? Then try a clean install of Win10 using
> the Win7 key.

This will not work unless the upgrade from Win 7/8.1 took place before the 
Microsoft imposed deadline of July 2016.


> Nearly all regular computers come with a bulk licence install, and the
> key that is actually on the sticker is usually completely unused. If you
> try to install Win10 with a Win7 key that has never been used, it will
> activate. That's how I did a clean install on my laptop. (And it's
> certainly true of Office, maybe of Win also - if you give it a key, it
> will install the version that matches the key.)

The OS Product Key for a Win 7 will not work on a Win 10, unless the free 
upgrade option had been performed before July 2016.  At least it has not 
worked here ...  You'll need a Product Key, Digital License, or a Microsoft 
Account which has been linked to an activated Windows 10 Digital License.


> Or just buy a key from Amazon. I think I paid about £15 and had
> absolutely no trouble. I've bought a bunch of Win and Office keys off
> Amazon at between £10 and £20 and they've all installed no problem
> whatsoever. (Thanks to an EU legal ruling, MS cannot block the sale of
> 2nd-hand licence keys ...)

I didn't know this!  Thanks for sharing.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 07:43:16 GMT Michael Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 1:01 AM Wols Lists  wrote:
> > On 06/01/20 19:55, Michael Jones wrote:
> > > As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this blindly, but your
> > > license should be tied to the hardware fingerprint of the laptop. So
> > > even installing windows fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows
> > > activating automatically. In fact, you might want to take this
> > > opportunity to try that out, to get a completely fresh installation
> > > without the decade of old cruft built up by window's lack of a package
> > > manager.
> > 
> > Two points with this - firstly if (like me) you DON'T have an MS
> > account, this fingerprint is not stored anywhere so that won't work.
> > Secondly, the fingerprint is likely stored on the hard drive somewhere
> > so if you clone the hard drive you are hopefully good, and thirdly it's
> > possible that the new hard drive will break the fingerprint so you're
> > SOL whatever you do. However, in that last case, if you ring the
> > licencing help line they MAY give you a new code because it is, still,
> > technically the same laptop.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol
> 
> I don't mean to continue the windows discussion on the gentoo list, but I
> wanted to point out that this is incorrect

I think a few things mentioned in this thread run the risk of being incorrect, 
after all as you hint this is not a MSWindows Activation Mailing List and our 
experiences tend to accumulate on Gentoo problems.  :-)


> I don't have a microsoft account at all, and regularly reactivate Windows
> 10 Home / Pro using the hardware fingerprint method using completely clean
> installations on factory-new harddrives with existing hardware.

I expect this is because your original installation utilised a Digital License 
AND you kept the same MoBo.  The UUID of the MoBo is stored on the WAP servers 
and when your PC goes online it matches the Digital License ID stored on the 
server. 

If you did have a MS Account and linked it to your installation with its 
Digital License, you would be able to install MSWindows to other hardware, 
after running the Activation Troubleshooter tool and clicking on "This is the 
device I’m using right now".  The only problem I am aware of is on PCs where 
the Digital License was stored by the OEM within the UEFI firmware and you 
want to perform an upgrade to a different MSWindows edition.  In this case, 
the process is slightly different - but I am not familiar with the specifics.  
All I recall is MSWindows users screaming late at night all over the 
interwebs.


> The
> fingerprint is stored on Microsoft's activation servers somewhere. I don't
> know how it works beyond that it's not required that you have a Microsoft
> account to use it.

True, as long as you stay on the same hardware (MoBo).

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Michael Jones]

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 1:01 AM Wols Lists  wrote:

> On 06/01/20 19:55, Michael Jones wrote:
> >
> > As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this blindly, but your
> > license should be tied to the hardware fingerprint of the laptop. So
> > even installing windows fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows
> > activating automatically. In fact, you might want to take this
> > opportunity to try that out, to get a completely fresh installation
> > without the decade of old cruft built up by window's lack of a package
> > manager.
>
> Two points with this - firstly if (like me) you DON'T have an MS
> account, this fingerprint is not stored anywhere so that won't work.
> Secondly, the fingerprint is likely stored on the hard drive somewhere
> so if you clone the hard drive you are hopefully good, and thirdly it's
> possible that the new hard drive will break the fingerprint so you're
> SOL whatever you do. However, in that last case, if you ring the
> licencing help line they MAY give you a new code because it is, still,
> technically the same laptop.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>
I don't mean to continue the windows discussion on the gentoo list, but I
wanted to point out that this is incorrect

I don't have a microsoft account at all, and regularly reactivate Windows
10 Home / Pro using the hardware fingerprint method using completely clean
installations on factory-new harddrives with existing hardware. The
fingerprint is stored on Microsoft's activation servers somewhere. I don't
know how it works beyond that it's not required that you have a Microsoft
account to use it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Wols Lists]

On 06/01/20 23:37, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Michael,
>I got Win 10 Pro installed via the M$ tool that creates USB install
> devices. It worked fine. Reading online it seems that if M$ sees the new
> disk as still the same 'hardware' then it's supposed to automatically
> validate and I'd be good to go. so far, after 2 hours it hasn't done
> that but I'll give it awhile and see what happens. As it only took an
> hour I might still try the disk copy path and see if that comes up
> validated as that would also transfer the couple of applications I have
> on the original hard drive.
> 
>Anyway, thanks for the ideas.
> 
A few more ideas from my experience -

Have you ever re-installed windows and actually used the licence key
that came with the laptop? No? Then try a clean install of Win10 using
the Win7 key.

Nearly all regular computers come with a bulk licence install, and the
key that is actually on the sticker is usually completely unused. If you
try to install Win10 with a Win7 key that has never been used, it will
activate. That's how I did a clean install on my laptop. (And it's
certainly true of Office, maybe of Win also - if you give it a key, it
will install the version that matches the key.)

Or just buy a key from Amazon. I think I paid about £15 and had
absolutely no trouble. I've bought a bunch of Win and Office keys off
Amazon at between £10 and £20 and they've all installed no problem
whatsoever. (Thanks to an EU legal ruling, MS cannot block the sale of
2nd-hand licence keys ...)

The last route, if you want to clean as much cruft as you can, is to do
a "factory reset" of the laptop, and then upgrade to Win10 over it.
Okay, it's not a completely clean install, but it gets you as close as
possible to a clean OEM install.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Wols Lists]

On 06/01/20 19:55, Michael Jones wrote:
> 
> As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this blindly, but your
> license should be tied to the hardware fingerprint of the laptop. So
> even installing windows fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows
> activating automatically. In fact, you might want to take this
> opportunity to try that out, to get a completely fresh installation
> without the decade of old cruft built up by window's lack of a package
> manager.

Two points with this - firstly if (like me) you DON'T have an MS
account, this fingerprint is not stored anywhere so that won't work.
Secondly, the fingerprint is likely stored on the hard drive somewhere
so if you clone the hard drive you are hopefully good, and thirdly it's
possible that the new hard drive will break the fingerprint so you're
SOL whatever you do. However, in that last case, if you ring the
licencing help line they MAY give you a new code because it is, still,
technically the same laptop.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Daniel Frey]

On 1/7/20 8:58 AM, Mark Knecht wrote:



On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 4:52 AM Mick > wrote:

>
> This is getting a tad O/T, since we're talking about activation of a 
non-

> Gentoo OS, but here it goes:
>

I completely agree. I wasn't expecting the conversation to go this 
direction when I posted. I'm happy to participate if others want to.


> On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 00:39:19 GMT Mark Knecht wrote:
>
> >    I'm going to let the machine sit overnight and see if it activates
> > automatically.
>
> It should activate as long as it is connected to the Internet, but 
there are
> two different ways of activating Windows 10 manually, should you not 
do so

> during the installation procedure.
>

After maybe 16 hours it didn't activate but logically I don't know why 
it would have. I've installed Win 10 using the M$ install tool writing 
to a USB flash drive but I'm not given any product IDs/Keys. M$ would 
have had to determine on their own with no help from me this was a 
reinstall and generously activated it which I think is asking too much.


Owing that I'm not 100% sure the previous install was actually Win 10 
Pro, having updated from Win 7 with their free conversion to Win 10, 
I'm going to put the old drive back in, double check what version of 
Win 10 I was using and then try again if I installed the wrong version 
this time.


On a more Linux note I'll build a bootable USB drive with clonezilla 
and see about cloning the old drive to the new SDD that way. that sort 
of solution is why I posted here in the first place. Trying the Win 10 
install and hoping it worked was just an easy 1-day experiment.


Thanks all,
Mark

P.S. - I'd love to get back to running Gentoo one of these days. For 
those of us that wanted a stable machine with just a couple of testing 
packages, especially as the machines become older and the software 
becomes larger, it just became too many hours building code, 
especially on these older laptops. Kubuntu has worked well enough for 
me be there's no better community that you here at gentoo-user for 
straight forward technical discussion and I want to thank everyone 
here for years and years of good times and good information.



As mentioned earlier you need your Windows 7 key for activation. If you 
have to reenter the key sometimes the Windows UI is dubious and doesn't 
offer a clear-cut way to do this. To get around it, open Powershell and 
use `slmgr /ipk ` to install the key you have.


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

I'll keep going with this, because there is a Gentoo twist at the end!  LOL!

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 16:58:43 GMT Mark Knecht wrote:

> After maybe 16 hours it didn't activate but logically I don't know why it
> would have. I've installed Win 10 using the M$ install tool writing to a
> USB flash drive but I'm not given any product IDs/Keys. M$ would have had
> to determine on their own with no help from me this was a reinstall and
> generously activated it which I think is asking too much.

The (re)activation process does not work like you assume.  Your MS Product key 
would have been provided with the original (Windows 7) installation media, a 
sticker under the laptop, your laptop's OEM box/activation card, or the 
MSWindows Online Shop.  If you do not possess this key you cannot readily 
(re)activate the installation.

You could call Microsoft Support to ask for your key since this is a legit 
installation, but as the key is still in the original disk, boot into the old 
disk and use some of the methods mentioned here to extract it:

https://www.howtogeek.com/206329/how-to-find-your-lost-windows-or-office-product-keys/


> Owing that I'm not 100% sure the previous install was actually Win 10 Pro,
> having updated from Win 7 with their free conversion to Win 10, I'm going
> to put the old drive back in, double check what version of Win 10 I was
> using and then try again if I installed the wrong version this time.

Yes, the Product key or Digital License can only be reused on the same Windows 
10 edition as the original.  If not you'll get some error pointing to the fact 
your key is not suitable for the edition of the OS you are trying to activate.


> On a more Linux note I'll build a bootable USB drive with clonezilla and
> see about cloning the old drive to the new SDD that way. that sort of
> solution is why I posted here in the first place. Trying the Win 10 install
> and hoping it worked was just an easy 1-day experiment.

That could be the easiest way without having to fight your way through the 
Windows Activation Process.  On the other hand, if you manage to re-activate 
it, you'll know how to go about it next time you reinstall - this is MSWindows 
after all!  ;-)


> P.S. - I'd love to get back to running Gentoo one of these days. For those
> of us that wanted a stable machine with just a couple of testing packages,
> especially as the machines become older and the software becomes larger, it
> just became too many hours building code, especially on these older
> laptops. Kubuntu has worked well enough for me be there's no better
> community that you here at gentoo-user for straight forward technical
> discussion and I want to thank everyone here for years and years of good
> times and good information.

Have a search for 'chroot' and 'cross-compiling' on Gentoo wiki & forums.  
There should be a few articles explaining how to cross-compile binary packages 
within a chrooted directory on a faster/bigger/better PC and then rsync and 
emerge these packages with '--usepkg y', or '--usepkgonly y' on the slower 
laptop.  As far as the laptop is concerned, this last part ought to be almost 
as fast as updating/installing binary packages on Kubuntu.  This is probably 
the only way to install really large compiled applications like Chromium, 
LibreOffice, etc. on old PCs with very low RAM.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 4:52 AM Mick  wrote:
>
> This is getting a tad O/T, since we're talking about activation of a non-
> Gentoo OS, but here it goes:
>

I completely agree. I wasn't expecting the conversation to go this
direction when I posted. I'm happy to participate if others want to.

> On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 00:39:19 GMT Mark Knecht wrote:
>
> >I'm going to let the machine sit overnight and see if it activates
> > automatically.
>
> It should activate as long as it is connected to the Internet, but there
are
> two different ways of activating Windows 10 manually, should you not do so
> during the installation procedure.
>

After maybe 16 hours it didn't activate but logically I don't know why it
would have. I've installed Win 10 using the M$ install tool writing to a
USB flash drive but I'm not given any product IDs/Keys. M$ would have had
to determine on their own with no help from me this was a reinstall and
generously activated it which I think is asking too much.

Owing that I'm not 100% sure the previous install was actually Win 10 Pro,
having updated from Win 7 with their free conversion to Win 10, I'm going
to put the old drive back in, double check what version of Win 10 I was
using and then try again if I installed the wrong version this time.

On a more Linux note I'll build a bootable USB drive with clonezilla and
see about cloning the old drive to the new SDD that way. that sort of
solution is why I posted here in the first place. Trying the Win 10 install
and hoping it worked was just an easy 1-day experiment.

Thanks all,
Mark

P.S. - I'd love to get back to running Gentoo one of these days. For those
of us that wanted a stable machine with just a couple of testing packages,
especially as the machines become older and the software becomes larger, it
just became too many hours building code, especially on these older
laptops. Kubuntu has worked well enough for me be there's no better
community that you here at gentoo-user for straight forward technical
discussion and I want to thank everyone here for years and years of good
times and good information.

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

This is getting a tad O/T, since we're talking about activation of a non-
Gentoo OS, but here it goes:

On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 00:39:19 GMT Mark Knecht wrote:

>I'm going to let the machine sit overnight and see if it activates
> automatically.

It should activate as long as it is connected to the Internet, but there are 
two different ways of activating Windows 10 manually, should you not do so 
during the installation procedure.

1. Using a product key and entering this when you try to activate it.  This is 
the conventional way of activating the installation when you buy a Windows 10 
from a retailer.  To check the activation status go to Start > Settings > 
Update & Security > Activation.

NOTE:  A Windows 10 installation is linked to the UUID of the MoBo, which is 
stored on the Windows Activation Servers and mapped against your Product key.  
If you change the hardware you will need to re-enter the Product key to 
activate the upgraded hardware.

2. Using your Microsoft account credentials, which must be linked to the 
Windows 10 installation's "Digital License".  This is a relatively new way and 
allows you to install Windows 10 on different PCs (one at a time), change the 
MoBo, etc., but each time you (re)install it you must use the same edition of 
Windows 10 and sign in to your Microsoft account linked to the original 
digital license.

Since your existing installation is already activated, you may be able to link 
its Digital License to your Microsoft account - but this depends how it was 
activate (Product Key or Digital License).  If the activation status shows:

"Windows is activated with a digital license", then your Microsoft account is 
not yet linked to this installation.  In this case, follow instructions to 
"Add an account".

"Windows is activated with a digital license linked to your Microsoft 
account", then you are good to install afresh on a different disk/PC and add 
your Microsoft account credentials when asked.


> If it doesn't I'll go back to the old drive and if needed
> will do a new reinstall with the right version. If I can get away with this
> path I will. If not I'll go with something like Mick suggested.
> 
> thanks,
> Mark

Partition UUIDs are important if you are restoring Windows from an old 
installation, but for a different reason.  The Windows boot loader uses the 
partition UUIDs to boot the OS.  If you have created a new C:\ partition and 
transferred all the OS files in there, the boot loader will fail to boot it 
because the new partition's UUID will be different.


PS. The above is just a summary of my understanding.  I am not an experienced 
MSWindows user, so I may well have got some details wrong.  You should search 
the https://support.microsoft.com/ website for reinstallation steps.

PPS. As far as I know you can use Windows 10 without activating it, but there 
is no guarantee Microsoft won't stop Windows Updates for installations which 
have not been activated some day in the future and future upgrades to later OS 
releases may be blocked.  As far as I know a non-activated installation is not 
crippleware.  Perhaps some 3rd party proprietary applications will refuse to 
install on a non-activated MSWindows installation, but I haven't come across 
any in my very limited experience with this OS.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Michael Jones]

I would be extremely surprised if it activated after not having done so
within an hour.

You can manually trigger activation in the Windows 10 settings menu
somewhere, and get an answer immediately.

You *do* need to make sure the version of Windows is 100% identical to what
was previously installed though, down to the various international version
that have different language packs and misc media features enabled /
disabled.


On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 6:39 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 5:19 PM Bill Kenworthy  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> >  was your old version Win10 PRO" as well? - as far as I know a
> > reinstall will only validate if the hardware as recorded at MS mostly
> > matches and its the same version.  Cloning via dd, then running through
> > the re-validation checks, then making changes in small steps is the only
> > way I have been able to make it work despite what is written in the link
> > below.
> >
> > Also check out:
> >
> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-will-microsoft-charge-you-if-you-need-to-reinstall/
> >
> > BillK
> >
>
> Bill,
>It's a great question that I cannot answer with certainty unless I put
> the old drive back in. I thought it was when I did the install this
> afternoon but I wasn't sure.
>
>I'm going to let the machine sit overnight and see if it activates
> automatically. If it doesn't I'll go back to the old drive and if needed
> will do a new reinstall with the right version. If I can get away with this
> path I will. If not I'll go with something like Mick suggested.
>
> thanks,
> Mark
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 5:19 PM Bill Kenworthy  wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>  was your old version Win10 PRO" as well? - as far as I know a
> reinstall will only validate if the hardware as recorded at MS mostly
> matches and its the same version.  Cloning via dd, then running through
> the re-validation checks, then making changes in small steps is the only
> way I have been able to make it work despite what is written in the link
> below.
>
> Also check out:
>
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-will-microsoft-charge-you-if-you-need-to-reinstall/
>
> BillK
>

Bill,
   It's a great question that I cannot answer with certainty unless I put
the old drive back in. I thought it was when I did the install this
afternoon but I wasn't sure.

   I'm going to let the machine sit overnight and see if it activates
automatically. If it doesn't I'll go back to the old drive and if needed
will do a new reinstall with the right version. If I can get away with this
path I will. If not I'll go with something like Mick suggested.

thanks,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Bill Kenworthy]

Hi Mark,
    was your old version Win10 PRO" as well? - as far as I know a 
reinstall will only validate if the hardware as recorded at MS mostly 
matches and its the same version.  Cloning via dd, then running through 
the re-validation checks, then making changes in small steps is the only 
way I have been able to make it work despite what is written in the link 
below.


Also check out: 
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-will-microsoft-charge-you-if-you-need-to-reinstall/


BillK


On 7/1/20 7:37 am, Mark Knecht wrote:

Michael,
   I got Win 10 Pro installed via the M$ tool that creates USB install 
devices. It worked fine. Reading online it seems that if M$ sees the 
new disk as still the same 'hardware' then it's supposed to 
automatically validate and I'd be good to go. so far, after 2 hours it 
hasn't done that but I'll give it awhile and see what happens. As it 
only took an hour I might still try the disk copy path and see if that 
comes up validated as that would also transfer the couple of 
applications I have on the original hard drive.


   Anyway, thanks for the ideas.

Cheers,
Mark

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 3:01 PM Michael Jones > wrote:


You can use the Windows 10 Download Tool (Or similarly named
thing, sorry, I can't find the details of it at this time) to
download an ISO image

Combine that with the rufus program https://rufus.ie/ (I use the
portable one, personally) to create a Windows 10 USB installer stick.

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM Mark Knecht mailto:markkne...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Michael,
   Thanks for the response. Great info.

   The install Win 10 clean sounds wonderful if it works. With
no DVD in this machine it sounds like I should investigate an
install from USB if the machine supports it. It's an Asus
gaming laptop circa 2008 so hopefully that works but I've
never done it on this machine.

Cheers,
Mark

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:56 PM Michael Jones
mailto:gen...@jonesmz.com>> wrote:

Generally the way I've handled this situation in the past
is like so (this is written from memory, so expect
gratuitous problems).

On the machine with the drive attached
mbuffer -i /dev/mydrive | xz -e -9 | mbuffer -O hostname:port

On a machine with storage space
mbuffer -I port -o /path/to/storage.xz

To make a backup.


In terms of cloning windows to another harddrive in
general, as long as the destination harddrive is large
enough to fit the original drive without issues, simply
running:

dd if=/dev/original of=/dev/destination
(I prefer dcfldd, personally)

Is enough. Run gparted (the graphical version, for nice
wizards) after, and it'll fixup your partition table for
you to match the new size, and you can re-size any
partitions you have to make them match as well. I do
exactly this all the time and have yet to have a problem.

As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this
blindly, but your license should be tied to the hardware
fingerprint of the laptop. So even installing windows
fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows activating
automatically. In fact, you might want to take this
opportunity to try that out, to get a completely fresh
installation without the decade of old cruft built up by
window's lack of a package manager.

If it doesn't activate as soon as you plug in an ethernet
cable, you can just wipe your SSD and copy your old
installation as discussed already.



On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 1:11 PM Mark Knecht
mailto:markkne...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,
   I haven't been here in a couple of years. IT's
great to see some familiar names posting. Cheers to all.

   I have a laptop running Win 10 with no (working)
DVD/CDROM. For various reasons I want to move from a
10 year old laptop drive to a new SSD and am looking
for guidance on I might do that. Win 10 is properly
licensed but through a weird channel - it was Win 7
that M$ allowed to convert to Win 10 for free and I'm
nervous that if the hard drive died I'd have to
purchase a new license as the free conversion path
likely doesn't exist anymore.

   Both drives are nominally 500GB.

   The older hard drive fdisk info shows:

root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sde
Disk /dev/sde: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes,
976773168 

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 4:38 PM Mick  wrote:
>
> Hi Mark, welcome back!  :-)
>

Hey Mick. Thanks for the welcome.


> This will take for-ever on larger disks as it will be copying all empty
bits
> and bytes.  Instead you may wish to try clonezilla, or partclone.
>
> https://clonezilla.org/
>
> Clonezilla Live will copy the whole disk or selected partitions along with
> their UUIDs, so Win10 should have no idea it was just migrated.  ;-)
>
> You'll need a USB/eSATA caddy to put your new drive in and connect it to
the
> candidate laptop, or fit both drives in your desktop and perform the
cloning
> there.  Here's the step-by-step instructions you asked for:
>
> https://clonezilla.org/clonezilla-live-doc.php
>
Good point about the amount of time. I'll investigate. If the SSD came up
as activated that would be a big win as it hasn't happened on it's own with
the new install. Thanks!

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mick]

Hi Mark, welcome back!  :-)

On Monday, 6 January 2020 19:55:44 GMT Michael Jones wrote:
> Generally the way I've handled this situation in the past is like so (this
> is written from memory, so expect gratuitous problems).
> 
> On the machine with the drive attached
> mbuffer -i /dev/mydrive | xz -e -9 | mbuffer -O hostname:port
> 
> On a machine with storage space
> mbuffer -I port -o /path/to/storage.xz
> 
> To make a backup.

Useful for creating a compressed backup image over the network, but not for 
cloning.


> In terms of cloning windows to another harddrive in general, as long as the
> destination harddrive is large enough to fit the original drive without
> issues, simply running:
> 
> dd if=/dev/original of=/dev/destination
> (I prefer dcfldd, personally)

This will take for-ever on larger disks as it will be copying all empty bits 
and bytes.  Instead you may wish to try clonezilla, or partclone.

https://clonezilla.org/

Clonezilla Live will copy the whole disk or selected partitions along with 
their UUIDs, so Win10 should have no idea it was just migrated.  ;-)

You'll need a USB/eSATA caddy to put your new drive in and connect it to the 
candidate laptop, or fit both drives in your desktop and perform the cloning 
there.  Here's the step-by-step instructions you asked for:

https://clonezilla.org/clonezilla-live-doc.php

-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

Michael,
   I got Win 10 Pro installed via the M$ tool that creates USB install
devices. It worked fine. Reading online it seems that if M$ sees the new
disk as still the same 'hardware' then it's supposed to automatically
validate and I'd be good to go. so far, after 2 hours it hasn't done that
but I'll give it awhile and see what happens. As it only took an hour I
might still try the disk copy path and see if that comes up validated as
that would also transfer the couple of applications I have on the original
hard drive.

   Anyway, thanks for the ideas.

Cheers,
Mark

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 3:01 PM Michael Jones  wrote:

> You can use the Windows 10 Download Tool (Or similarly named thing, sorry,
> I can't find the details of it at this time) to download an ISO image
>
> Combine that with the rufus program https://rufus.ie/ (I use the portable
> one, personally) to create a Windows 10 USB installer stick.
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>Thanks for the response. Great info.
>>
>>The install Win 10 clean sounds wonderful if it works. With no DVD in
>> this machine it sounds like I should investigate an install from USB if the
>> machine supports it. It's an Asus gaming laptop circa 2008 so hopefully
>> that works but I've never done it on this machine.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:56 PM Michael Jones  wrote:
>>
>>> Generally the way I've handled this situation in the past is like so
>>> (this is written from memory, so expect gratuitous problems).
>>>
>>> On the machine with the drive attached
>>> mbuffer -i /dev/mydrive | xz -e -9 | mbuffer -O hostname:port
>>>
>>> On a machine with storage space
>>> mbuffer -I port -o /path/to/storage.xz
>>>
>>> To make a backup.
>>>
>>>
>>> In terms of cloning windows to another harddrive in general, as long as
>>> the destination harddrive is large enough to fit the original drive without
>>> issues, simply running:
>>>
>>> dd if=/dev/original of=/dev/destination
>>> (I prefer dcfldd, personally)
>>>
>>> Is enough. Run gparted (the graphical version, for nice wizards) after,
>>> and it'll fixup your partition table for you to match the new size, and you
>>> can re-size any partitions you have to make them match as well. I do
>>> exactly this all the time and have yet to have a problem.
>>>
>>> As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this blindly, but your
>>> license should be tied to the hardware fingerprint of the laptop. So even
>>> installing windows fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows
>>> activating automatically. In fact, you might want to take this opportunity
>>> to try that out, to get a completely fresh installation without the decade
>>> of old cruft built up by window's lack of a package manager.
>>>
>>> If it doesn't activate as soon as you plug in an ethernet cable, you can
>>> just wipe your SSD and copy your old installation as discussed already.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 1:11 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,
I haven't been here in a couple of years. IT's great to see some
 familiar names posting. Cheers to all.

I have a laptop running Win 10 with no (working) DVD/CDROM. For
 various reasons I want to move from a 10 year old laptop drive to a new SSD
 and am looking for guidance on I might do that. Win 10 is properly licensed
 but through a weird channel - it was Win 7 that M$ allowed to convert to
 Win 10 for free and I'm nervous that if the hard drive died I'd have to
 purchase a new license as the free conversion path likely doesn't exist
 anymore.

Both drives are nominally 500GB.

The older hard drive fdisk info shows:

 root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sde
 Disk /dev/sde: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
 Disk model: ASM1053E
 Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
 Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
 I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
 Disklabel type: dos
 Disk identifier: 0xe0c5913d

 Device Boot Start   End   Sectors   Size Id Type
 /dev/sde1  63  45062324  45062262  21.5G 1c Hidden W95
 FAT32 (LBA)
 /dev/sde2  * 45062325 288063133 243000809 115.9G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
 /dev/sde3   288063488 289247231   1183744   578M 27 Hidden NTFS
 WinRE
 /dev/sde4   289249254 976768064 687518811 327.9G fd Linux raid
 autodetect
 root@science:~#

 The Linux RAID autodetect is from running Gentoo at some earlier time
 and probably doesn't need to be copied. I'm not at all sure what /dev/sde3
 is or whether it's required to make M$ happy.

The new SSD is unused and shows:

 root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sdf
 Disk /dev/sdf: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
 Disk model: ASM1053E
 Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
 Sector size (logical/physical): 

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Michael Jones]

You can use the Windows 10 Download Tool (Or similarly named thing, sorry,
I can't find the details of it at this time) to download an ISO image

Combine that with the rufus program https://rufus.ie/ (I use the portable
one, personally) to create a Windows 10 USB installer stick.

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>Thanks for the response. Great info.
>
>The install Win 10 clean sounds wonderful if it works. With no DVD in
> this machine it sounds like I should investigate an install from USB if the
> machine supports it. It's an Asus gaming laptop circa 2008 so hopefully
> that works but I've never done it on this machine.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:56 PM Michael Jones  wrote:
>
>> Generally the way I've handled this situation in the past is like so
>> (this is written from memory, so expect gratuitous problems).
>>
>> On the machine with the drive attached
>> mbuffer -i /dev/mydrive | xz -e -9 | mbuffer -O hostname:port
>>
>> On a machine with storage space
>> mbuffer -I port -o /path/to/storage.xz
>>
>> To make a backup.
>>
>>
>> In terms of cloning windows to another harddrive in general, as long as
>> the destination harddrive is large enough to fit the original drive without
>> issues, simply running:
>>
>> dd if=/dev/original of=/dev/destination
>> (I prefer dcfldd, personally)
>>
>> Is enough. Run gparted (the graphical version, for nice wizards) after,
>> and it'll fixup your partition table for you to match the new size, and you
>> can re-size any partitions you have to make them match as well. I do
>> exactly this all the time and have yet to have a problem.
>>
>> As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this blindly, but your
>> license should be tied to the hardware fingerprint of the laptop. So even
>> installing windows fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows
>> activating automatically. In fact, you might want to take this opportunity
>> to try that out, to get a completely fresh installation without the decade
>> of old cruft built up by window's lack of a package manager.
>>
>> If it doesn't activate as soon as you plug in an ethernet cable, you can
>> just wipe your SSD and copy your old installation as discussed already.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 1:11 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>I haven't been here in a couple of years. IT's great to see some
>>> familiar names posting. Cheers to all.
>>>
>>>I have a laptop running Win 10 with no (working) DVD/CDROM. For
>>> various reasons I want to move from a 10 year old laptop drive to a new SSD
>>> and am looking for guidance on I might do that. Win 10 is properly licensed
>>> but through a weird channel - it was Win 7 that M$ allowed to convert to
>>> Win 10 for free and I'm nervous that if the hard drive died I'd have to
>>> purchase a new license as the free conversion path likely doesn't exist
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>>Both drives are nominally 500GB.
>>>
>>>The older hard drive fdisk info shows:
>>>
>>> root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sde
>>> Disk /dev/sde: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
>>> Disk model: ASM1053E
>>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
>>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
>>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
>>> Disklabel type: dos
>>> Disk identifier: 0xe0c5913d
>>>
>>> Device Boot Start   End   Sectors   Size Id Type
>>> /dev/sde1  63  45062324  45062262  21.5G 1c Hidden W95 FAT32
>>> (LBA)
>>> /dev/sde2  * 45062325 288063133 243000809 115.9G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>>> /dev/sde3   288063488 289247231   1183744   578M 27 Hidden NTFS
>>> WinRE
>>> /dev/sde4   289249254 976768064 687518811 327.9G fd Linux raid
>>> autodetect
>>> root@science:~#
>>>
>>> The Linux RAID autodetect is from running Gentoo at some earlier time
>>> and probably doesn't need to be copied. I'm not at all sure what /dev/sde3
>>> is or whether it's required to make M$ happy.
>>>
>>>The new SSD is unused and shows:
>>>
>>> root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sdf
>>> Disk /dev/sdf: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
>>> Disk model: ASM1053E
>>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
>>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
>>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
>>> root@science:~#
>>>
>>>The appear to have the same sector count and overall size.
>>>
>>>I can make a 1TB drive available in my big machine and work over USB
>>> (which is what I'm doing to get the info above) but I'm unclear how much of
>>> this can be done automatically and how much I might need to do by hand.
>>>
>>>As long as I don't hurt the old drive I can put data on the SSD
>>> multiple times to get through the process in case I have trouble.
>>>
>>>Does anyone have experience with this sort of issue and can you point
>>> me toward some instructions I might try?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

Hi Michael,
   Thanks for the response. Great info.

   The install Win 10 clean sounds wonderful if it works. With no DVD in
this machine it sounds like I should investigate an install from USB if the
machine supports it. It's an Asus gaming laptop circa 2008 so hopefully
that works but I've never done it on this machine.

Cheers,
Mark

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:56 PM Michael Jones  wrote:

> Generally the way I've handled this situation in the past is like so (this
> is written from memory, so expect gratuitous problems).
>
> On the machine with the drive attached
> mbuffer -i /dev/mydrive | xz -e -9 | mbuffer -O hostname:port
>
> On a machine with storage space
> mbuffer -I port -o /path/to/storage.xz
>
> To make a backup.
>
>
> In terms of cloning windows to another harddrive in general, as long as
> the destination harddrive is large enough to fit the original drive without
> issues, simply running:
>
> dd if=/dev/original of=/dev/destination
> (I prefer dcfldd, personally)
>
> Is enough. Run gparted (the graphical version, for nice wizards) after,
> and it'll fixup your partition table for you to match the new size, and you
> can re-size any partitions you have to make them match as well. I do
> exactly this all the time and have yet to have a problem.
>
> As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this blindly, but your
> license should be tied to the hardware fingerprint of the laptop. So even
> installing windows fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows
> activating automatically. In fact, you might want to take this opportunity
> to try that out, to get a completely fresh installation without the decade
> of old cruft built up by window's lack of a package manager.
>
> If it doesn't activate as soon as you plug in an ethernet cable, you can
> just wipe your SSD and copy your old installation as discussed already.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 1:11 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>I haven't been here in a couple of years. IT's great to see some
>> familiar names posting. Cheers to all.
>>
>>I have a laptop running Win 10 with no (working) DVD/CDROM. For
>> various reasons I want to move from a 10 year old laptop drive to a new SSD
>> and am looking for guidance on I might do that. Win 10 is properly licensed
>> but through a weird channel - it was Win 7 that M$ allowed to convert to
>> Win 10 for free and I'm nervous that if the hard drive died I'd have to
>> purchase a new license as the free conversion path likely doesn't exist
>> anymore.
>>
>>Both drives are nominally 500GB.
>>
>>The older hard drive fdisk info shows:
>>
>> root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sde
>> Disk /dev/sde: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
>> Disk model: ASM1053E
>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
>> Disklabel type: dos
>> Disk identifier: 0xe0c5913d
>>
>> Device Boot Start   End   Sectors   Size Id Type
>> /dev/sde1  63  45062324  45062262  21.5G 1c Hidden W95 FAT32
>> (LBA)
>> /dev/sde2  * 45062325 288063133 243000809 115.9G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>> /dev/sde3   288063488 289247231   1183744   578M 27 Hidden NTFS WinRE
>> /dev/sde4   289249254 976768064 687518811 327.9G fd Linux raid
>> autodetect
>> root@science:~#
>>
>> The Linux RAID autodetect is from running Gentoo at some earlier time and
>> probably doesn't need to be copied. I'm not at all sure what /dev/sde3 is
>> or whether it's required to make M$ happy.
>>
>>The new SSD is unused and shows:
>>
>> root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sdf
>> Disk /dev/sdf: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
>> Disk model: ASM1053E
>> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
>> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
>> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
>> root@science:~#
>>
>>The appear to have the same sector count and overall size.
>>
>>I can make a 1TB drive available in my big machine and work over USB
>> (which is what I'm doing to get the info above) but I'm unclear how much of
>> this can be done automatically and how much I might need to do by hand.
>>
>>As long as I don't hurt the old drive I can put data on the SSD
>> multiple times to get through the process in case I have trouble.
>>
>>Does anyone have experience with this sort of issue and can you point
>> me toward some instructions I might try?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>

Re: [gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Michael Jones]

Generally the way I've handled this situation in the past is like so (this
is written from memory, so expect gratuitous problems).

On the machine with the drive attached
mbuffer -i /dev/mydrive | xz -e -9 | mbuffer -O hostname:port

On a machine with storage space
mbuffer -I port -o /path/to/storage.xz

To make a backup.


In terms of cloning windows to another harddrive in general, as long as the
destination harddrive is large enough to fit the original drive without
issues, simply running:

dd if=/dev/original of=/dev/destination
(I prefer dcfldd, personally)

Is enough. Run gparted (the graphical version, for nice wizards) after, and
it'll fixup your partition table for you to match the new size, and you can
re-size any partitions you have to make them match as well. I do exactly
this all the time and have yet to have a problem.

As for windows 10 licensing, don't trust me on this blindly, but your
license should be tied to the hardware fingerprint of the laptop. So even
installing windows fresh on your new SSD should result in Windows
activating automatically. In fact, you might want to take this opportunity
to try that out, to get a completely fresh installation without the decade
of old cruft built up by window's lack of a package manager.

If it doesn't activate as soon as you plug in an ethernet cable, you can
just wipe your SSD and copy your old installation as discussed already.



On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 1:11 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:

> Hi all,
>I haven't been here in a couple of years. IT's great to see some
> familiar names posting. Cheers to all.
>
>I have a laptop running Win 10 with no (working) DVD/CDROM. For various
> reasons I want to move from a 10 year old laptop drive to a new SSD and am
> looking for guidance on I might do that. Win 10 is properly licensed but
> through a weird channel - it was Win 7 that M$ allowed to convert to Win 10
> for free and I'm nervous that if the hard drive died I'd have to purchase a
> new license as the free conversion path likely doesn't exist anymore.
>
>Both drives are nominally 500GB.
>
>The older hard drive fdisk info shows:
>
> root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sde
> Disk /dev/sde: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
> Disk model: ASM1053E
> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> Disklabel type: dos
> Disk identifier: 0xe0c5913d
>
> Device Boot Start   End   Sectors   Size Id Type
> /dev/sde1  63  45062324  45062262  21.5G 1c Hidden W95 FAT32
> (LBA)
> /dev/sde2  * 45062325 288063133 243000809 115.9G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
> /dev/sde3   288063488 289247231   1183744   578M 27 Hidden NTFS WinRE
> /dev/sde4   289249254 976768064 687518811 327.9G fd Linux raid
> autodetect
> root@science:~#
>
> The Linux RAID autodetect is from running Gentoo at some earlier time and
> probably doesn't need to be copied. I'm not at all sure what /dev/sde3 is
> or whether it's required to make M$ happy.
>
>The new SSD is unused and shows:
>
> root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sdf
> Disk /dev/sdf: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
> Disk model: ASM1053E
> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
> root@science:~#
>
>The appear to have the same sector count and overall size.
>
>I can make a 1TB drive available in my big machine and work over USB
> (which is what I'm doing to get the info above) but I'm unclear how much of
> this can be done automatically and how much I might need to do by hand.
>
>As long as I don't hurt the old drive I can put data on the SSD
> multiple times to get through the process in case I have trouble.
>
>Does anyone have experience with this sort of issue and can you point
> me toward some instructions I might try?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
>

[gentoo-user] Guidance on using Gentoo to clone a Win 10 system drive

[Mark Knecht]

Hi all,
   I haven't been here in a couple of years. IT's great to see some
familiar names posting. Cheers to all.

   I have a laptop running Win 10 with no (working) DVD/CDROM. For various
reasons I want to move from a 10 year old laptop drive to a new SSD and am
looking for guidance on I might do that. Win 10 is properly licensed but
through a weird channel - it was Win 7 that M$ allowed to convert to Win 10
for free and I'm nervous that if the hard drive died I'd have to purchase a
new license as the free conversion path likely doesn't exist anymore.

   Both drives are nominally 500GB.

   The older hard drive fdisk info shows:

root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sde
Disk /dev/sde: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
Disk model: ASM1053E
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0xe0c5913d

Device Boot Start   End   Sectors   Size Id Type
/dev/sde1  63  45062324  45062262  21.5G 1c Hidden W95 FAT32
(LBA)
/dev/sde2  * 45062325 288063133 243000809 115.9G  7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sde3   288063488 289247231   1183744   578M 27 Hidden NTFS WinRE
/dev/sde4   289249254 976768064 687518811 327.9G fd Linux raid
autodetect
root@science:~#

The Linux RAID autodetect is from running Gentoo at some earlier time and
probably doesn't need to be copied. I'm not at all sure what /dev/sde3 is
or whether it's required to make M$ happy.

   The new SSD is unused and shows:

root@science:~# fdisk --list /dev/sdf
Disk /dev/sdf: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors
Disk model: ASM1053E
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
root@science:~#

   The appear to have the same sector count and overall size.

   I can make a 1TB drive available in my big machine and work over USB
(which is what I'm doing to get the info above) but I'm unclear how much of
this can be done automatically and how much I might need to do by hand.

   As long as I don't hurt the old drive I can put data on the SSD multiple
times to get through the process in case I have trouble.

   Does anyone have experience with this sort of issue and can you point me
toward some instructions I might try?

Thanks,
Mark