Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
First of all I have to be sorry for this unprofessional overreaction and my unqualified comment. This really wasnt my week at all. I thought about what I said and recognized that this wasnt correct at all. I used my last hhd change to completely remerge my system and copy only the files I really need. Making things clean is much better! :D Thanks Mark for this waking up post. I stumbled some more in this group and now I know what you mean. :) regards, lukas On 11/09/2012 02:56 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:00 AM, mindrunner ker...@ccube.de mailto:ker...@ccube.de wrote: someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. If I want this kind of conversation, i would sign in to gulli board or some similar, but not gentoo-users. so I thought, we are all grown up here. Now I have to leave you again. bye On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb. Please, don't take Volker seriously as anyone who represents the basic discourse here. I black listed him a year ago but unfortunately his rudeness still leaks through. While he is technically capable, far more than me certainly, it's my opinion personally that he isn't worth the time. Feel free to blacklist him and then listen to others here who are technically at least if not far more capable and always more friendly in their delivery. Good luck, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Thursday 08 Nov 2012 19:46:01 john wrote: On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:17:25 +0100 Florian Philipp li...@binarywings.net wrote: Am 08.11.2012 17:37, schrieb Paul Hartman: On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 08.11.2012 12:12 schrieb j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder. 2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. I agree, best approach is to partition and format the new drive as new, and then copy the files. This will also help you start your new disk with a lack of fragmentation. +1 Of course, a simple cp -auv /* /new_root won't suffice because of proc, sys and friends. I prefer mount --bind / /real_root cp -auv /real_root/* /new_root Regards, Florian Philipp Thanks all for advice. Nice work with the mounting. I often use star with the -copy option (faster and more advanced than tar, although I have not timed it), or rsync. dd and friends for iso copying and fs recovery. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. If I want this kind of conversation, i would sign in to gulli board or some similar, but not gentoo-users. so I thought, we are all grown up here. Now I have to leave you again. bye On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 01:00:05PM +0100, mindrunner wrote: someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. If I want this kind of conversation, i would sign in to gulli board or some similar, but not gentoo-users. so I thought, we are all grown up here. Now I have to leave you again. bye On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb. If you're still around... He didn't call *you* stupid. He called your *suggestion* stupid. It was rude, but then, what do you expect here? Seems this ML doesn't stick to technical discussions, but frequently digresses to such small-minded talk. It's those people who want to appear more intelligent and/or experienced than they actually are who do that. Those who *really* know their stuff don't stoop to such. If you can't take someone criticizing your opinion, then you need to stop participating in group discussions on the internet. Especially when they're not in your native language. -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:00 AM, mindrunner ker...@ccube.de wrote: someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. If I want this kind of conversation, i would sign in to gulli board or some similar, but not gentoo-users. so I thought, we are all grown up here. Now I have to leave you again. bye On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb. Please, don't take Volker seriously as anyone who represents the basic discourse here. I black listed him a year ago but unfortunately his rudeness still leaks through. While he is technically capable, far more than me certainly, it's my opinion personally that he isn't worth the time. Feel free to blacklist him and then listen to others here who are technically at least if not far more capable and always more friendly in their delivery. Good luck, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
121109 mindrunner wrote: On 11/08/2012 09:37 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. someone calls me stupid and dumb, because i am sharing my opinion. this never happened to me on a dev-mailinglist. I came here to help out gentoo users. not to flame war. Don't worry re VAH : he writes like that, but there's no ill-will often he has something useful to say. Most of the time, Gentoo-User is polite + intelligent a good source of Linux education. In this case, as someone else pointed out, VAH calls your idea stupid, which may be an exaggeration, but he does offer an explanation. At the risk of further antagonising you (smile): (1) don't top-post ! (2) please use your real name. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 05:56:57AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Please, don't take Volker seriously as anyone who represents the basic discourse here. I black listed him a year ago but unfortunately his rudeness still leaks through. While he is technically capable, far more than me certainly, it's my opinion personally that he isn't worth the time. Feel free to blacklist him and then listen to others here who are technically at least if not far more capable and always more friendly in their delivery. Good luck, Mark Thanks for clarifying ... Volker Armin Hemmann ... done -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 09:00:35AM -0500, Philip Webb wrote: Don't worry re VAH : he writes like that, but there's no ill-will often he has something useful to say. Most of the time, Gentoo-User is polite + intelligent a good source of Linux education. In this case, as someone else pointed out, VAH calls your idea stupid, which may be an exaggeration, but he does offer an explanation. Nice to read, and if it holds true, my apologies 'on the list' to VAH. At the risk of further antagonising you (smile): (1) don't top-post ! (2) please use your real name. ack (click and read the link in my sig if you don't understand) -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 01:38:41 schrieb mindrunner: volker, what is your intention to say i am dumb and stupid. actually you do not know me. everybody does something dumb and/or stupid once in a while. I average that one to 1/day. There are two ways to react if someone points out that something you do is not the best idea since sliced bread. - oops. Yeah, I see it. or - sulking. copying on block device level has of cource advantages. and really... i dont care about 0.4% fragemntation and some journal log. no, it does not. Apart from fragmentation you also copy all deleted files. All damaged blocks AND the UUID. Oh, and it is slow (I know, fiddling with blocksize etc you can speed it up a lot. Still slow). I never made bad experiences with this copy technique. which doesn't mean it is a good one. all my hard drives, ssd and virtual containers are working fine without any performance issues. How do you know? so what exactly is your problem? you are telling someone to do something really stupid. Create an image with dd to do some file rescuing? forensic stuff? as a template for containers? To burn it on a dvd/cd? Well, those are valid uses for dd. Converting files? Yes, that is what dd was made for. Copying a partition to another disk, different disk? Wow.. that is just wrong. Even if both disks were identical it would not be great idea. Just a 'well, it does work and at least I am not punishing the new disk' way to do it. Mind you, cp -auv is not the best way either. With ACLsco it is not such a good choice. And I am surprised that Joerg Schilling hasn't posted how incredible star is for this job yet. Btw, star is a really good tool for the job. It just needs a lot of typing. tar, rsync, cp, star... there are many good or good enough ways to copy files from one harddisk to another dd doesn't belong in that category. - #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 04:14:47PM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 01:38:41 schrieb mindrunner:
volker, what is your intention to say i am dumb and stupid. actually you
do not know me.
everybody does something dumb and/or stupid once in a while. I average that
one to 1/day.
There are two ways to react if someone points out that something you do is
not
the best idea since sliced bread.
- oops. Yeah, I see it.
or
- sulking.
copying on block device level has of cource advantages. and really... i
dont care about 0.4% fragemntation and some journal log.
no, it does not. Apart from fragmentation you also copy all deleted files.
All
damaged blocks AND the UUID.
Oh, and it is slow (I know, fiddling with blocksize etc you can speed it up a
lot. Still slow).
I never made bad experiences with this copy technique.
which doesn't mean it is a good one.
all my hard drives, ssd and virtual containers are working fine without
any performance issues.
How do you know?
so what exactly is your problem?
you are telling someone to do something really stupid.
Create an image with dd to do some file rescuing? forensic stuff? as a
template
for containers? To burn it on a dvd/cd? Well, those are valid uses for dd.
Converting files? Yes, that is what dd was made for.
Copying a partition to another disk, different disk? Wow.. that is just
wrong.
Even if both disks were identical it would not be great idea. Just a 'well,
it
does work and at least I am not punishing the new disk' way to do it.
Mind you, cp -auv is not the best way either. With ACLsco it is not such a
good choice. And I am surprised that Joerg Schilling hasn't posted how
incredible star is for this job yet. Btw, star is a really good tool for the
job. It just needs a lot of typing.
tar, rsync, cp, star... there are many good or good enough ways to copy files
from one harddisk to another
dd doesn't belong in that category.
-
#163933
Spot on! Here you can be nice and explain to the guy your reasoning behind
telling him using dd{whatever} for this job is stupid.
--
Happy Penguin Computers ')
126 Fenco Drive ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^
supp...@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/
Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On 11/9/2012 10:14 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 01:38:41 schrieb mindrunner: volker, what is your intention to say i am dumb and stupid. actually you do not know me. everybody does something dumb and/or stupid once in a while. I average that one to 1/day. There are two ways to react if someone points out that something you do is not the best idea since sliced bread. - oops. Yeah, I see it. or - sulking. I'm going to have to agree with Volker on this. I don't believe he was calling *you* stupid - just the idea of using dd to transfer files from old drive to new drive. The dd utility has it's good uses - that's just not one of those good uses. no, it does not. Apart from fragmentation you also copy all deleted files. All damaged blocks AND the UUID. Oh, and it is slow (I know, fiddling with blocksize etc you can speed it up a lot. Still slow). Yes, you copy everything with dd, and it is extremely slow. It is better to use another utility to just copy the files and directory structure from the old drive to the new one. Create an image with dd to do some file rescuing? forensic stuff? as a template for containers? To burn it on a dvd/cd? Well, those are valid uses for dd. Converting files? Yes, that is what dd was made for. Agreed. Copying a partition to another disk, different disk? Wow.. that is just wrong. Even if both disks were identical it would not be great idea. Just a 'well, it does work and at least I am not punishing the new disk' way to do it. Mind you, cp -auv is not the best way either. With ACLsco it is not such a good choice. And I am surprised that Joerg Schilling hasn't posted how incredible star is for this job yet. Btw, star is a really good tool for the job. It just needs a lot of typing. tar, rsync, cp, star... there are many good or good enough ways to copy files from one harddisk to another dd doesn't belong in that category. Very true. I'd personally rather use tar or even dar to copy the files. cp has it's limitations, though it is faster, as it doesn't use compression (technically, you don't need that with tar, either). Regards, Chris --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 121109-0, 11/09/2012 Tested on: 11/9/2012 12:56:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software. http://www.avast.com
[gentoo-user] Hard drive change
I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:08:18 +, j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk wrote: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Can you connect both drives ate the same time? If so you can create a PV on the new drive, add it to your VG and then use lvmove to move the date before removing the old drive from the VG. That way you can continue to use the computer while the transfer takes place. -- Neil Bothwick How do I set my laser printer to stun? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote : On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:08:18 +, j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk wrote: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Can you connect both drives ate the same time? If so you can create a PV on the new drive, add it to your VG and then use lvmove to move the date before removing the old drive from the VG. That way you can continue to use the computer while the transfer takes place. -- Neil Bothwick How do I set my laser printer to stun? Yes I can connect to both drives at the same time. My root partition is not on lvm. This sounds like an excellent idea. Thanks. Fairly new to lvm but it seems very solid and capable
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. Am 08.11.2012 12:12 schrieb j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
I used rsync for that. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: 2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. Am 08.11.2012 12:12 schrieb j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:03:08 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: 2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. Very good point. Use cp, rsync, tar or lvm tools, in fact anything but dd. -- Neil Bothwick Like an atheist in a grave: all dressed up and no place to go. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. On 11/08/2012 03:12 PM, Srdjan Rakic wrote: I used rsync for that. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com mailto:volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: 2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. Am 08.11.2012 12:12 schrieb j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk mailto:j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 16:23:08 +0100, mindrunner wrote: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. Even when the two devices have different block sizes? At best you'd get crap performance from misaligned filesystem boundaries. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 10: Computer security signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 08.11.2012 12:12 schrieb j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder. 2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. I agree, best approach is to partition and format the new drive as new, and then copy the files. This will also help you start your new disk with a lack of fragmentation.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
Am 08.11.2012 17:37, schrieb Paul Hartman: On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 08.11.2012 12:12 schrieb j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder. 2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. I agree, best approach is to partition and format the new drive as new, and then copy the files. This will also help you start your new disk with a lack of fragmentation. +1 Of course, a simple cp -auv /* /new_root won't suffice because of proc, sys and friends. I prefer mount --bind / /real_root cp -auv /real_root/* /new_root Regards, Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
I never payed attention to this. all i know is that the alignment is correct. (checked with parted) On 11/08/2012 04:37 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 16:23:08 +0100, mindrunner wrote: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. Even when the two devices have different block sizes? At best you'd get crap performance from misaligned filesystem boundaries.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:17:25 +0100 Florian Philipp li...@binarywings.net wrote: Am 08.11.2012 17:37, schrieb Paul Hartman: On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 08.11.2012 12:12 schrieb j...@jdm.myzen.co.uk: I am about to change my hard drive on my machine from a 500GB to 2tb. To transfer I intend to dd the partitions across and then resize using lvm as home swap var are located on lvm. Is this the right approach or would you recommend another method? John D Maunder. 2tb drive probably different sector size. cp -auv recommended. I agree, best approach is to partition and format the new drive as new, and then copy the files. This will also help you start your new disk with a lack of fragmentation. +1 Of course, a simple cp -auv /* /new_root won't suffice because of proc, sys and friends. I prefer mount --bind / /real_root cp -auv /real_root/* /new_root Regards, Florian Philipp Thanks all for advice. Nice work with the mounting. -- John D Maunder
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive change
Am Donnerstag, 8. November 2012, 16:23:08 schrieb mindrunner: i always use ddrescue for migrating to another hdd. it is much more comfortable than dd and does not depent on file systems, etc. I always prefer copying on block device level. that is just stupid. You copy the fragmentation, the errors, the journal log and all the other crap that accumulated over time. No excuses. Just dumb. -- #163933
