Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 17:09:09 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: We don't have average idiots in /our/ civil service! What? You actively seek out the *special* idiots then? Not personally, although I do seem to attract them :( -- Neil Bothwick Idaho - It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On 30 Jan 2010, at 00:06, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:21:33 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On the other hand, centralised storage means you shouldn't get idiots posting out CDs with millions of people's bank account details. There again, if the admins are lax enough to allow people to do this, and people are daft enough to do it, they would have real trouble understanding the concept of central storage :( You seem to grossly under-estimate the ability of the average idiot. We don't have average idiots in /our/ civil service! No, we hire them as consultants. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Saturday 30 January 2010 02:06:42 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:21:33 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On the other hand, centralised storage means you shouldn't get idiots posting out CDs with millions of people's bank account details. There again, if the admins are lax enough to allow people to do this, and people are daft enough to do it, they would have real trouble understanding the concept of central storage :( You seem to grossly under-estimate the ability of the average idiot. We don't have average idiots in /our/ civil service! What? You actively seek out the *special* idiots then? [Or this is a Monty Python in-joke and I'm not getting it] -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Sat, 2010-01-30 at 00:06 +, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:21:33 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: You seem to grossly under-estimate the ability of the average idiot. We don't have average idiots in /our/ civil service! What kind of idiots do you have working here? The finest in New York! (gratuitous movie quote...) -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au When you speak to others for their own good it's advice; when they speak to you for your own good it's interference.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:13:41 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote: They got it right for being open to OSS, but they got it wrong with the word cloud... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman Aren't they talking about a private cloud rather than a public one like Google's? That would make sense if it were not for our civil service's inability to keep data secure even when on physical media. -- Neil Bothwick Minds are like parachutes; they only function when fully open. * Sir James Dewar signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On 29 Jan 2010, at 05:43, Iain Buchanan wrote: They got it right for being open to OSS, but they got it wrong with the word cloud... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman Seems like Stallman's objections don't apply because the proposal is that they own their own cloud. I.E. the use of the word cloud is just buzzwordology to gain approval acceptance. One could weigh the pros cons of using regional data centres for this, versus a server room in the basement of the individual government buildings in Swansea (DVLA), Bristol (TV licensing) wherever, but I just feel too pessimistic about this today to feel it's worth it. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 10:00 +, Stroller wrote: On 29 Jan 2010, at 05:43, Iain Buchanan wrote: They got it right for being open to OSS, but they got it wrong with the word cloud... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman Seems like Stallman's objections don't apply because the proposal is that they own their own cloud. I don't think his objections are just related to public vs private. As Neil said, there's the security problem to begin with, where one large government data centre has more data to compromise that a small one... I.E. the use of the word cloud is just buzzwordology to gain approval acceptance. ... Another problem is the use of the word cloud when already we don't know exactly what they mean by it (it sounds like a manager buzz word to me) so they're going to have trouble defining it to themselves, and other govt departments. But the principle still remains that they're handing over locally served (ie maybe a server, maybe a desktop) data to a central cloud that will put its own limits on security, size, etc. Not to mention the separation of distance. No matter how good your network link is, it's not as good as your SATA interface! And at the worst of times you may loose not only your data, but your ability to create new data! One could weigh the pros cons of using regional data centres for this, versus a server room in the basement of the individual government buildings in Swansea (DVLA), Bristol (TV licensing) wherever, but I just feel too pessimistic about this today to feel it's worth it. I'm all for data centres, since they can put massive CPU and storage volumes at the other end of the network link for you to work with (backups, web servers, etc) but it becomes very problematic when you use a web browser to write an office document. Stroller. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au I didn't like the play, but I saw it under adverse conditions. The curtain was up.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Friday 29 January 2010 14:09:37 Iain Buchanan wrote: On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 10:00 +, Stroller wrote: On 29 Jan 2010, at 05:43, Iain Buchanan wrote: They got it right for being open to OSS, but they got it wrong with the word cloud... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richar d.stallman Seems like Stallman's objections don't apply because the proposal is that they own their own cloud. I don't think his objections are just related to public vs private. As Neil said, there's the security problem to begin with, where one large government data centre has more data to compromise that a small one... I.E. the use of the word cloud is just buzzwordology to gain approval acceptance. ... Another problem is the use of the word cloud when already we don't know exactly what they mean by it (it sounds like a manager buzz word to me) so they're going to have trouble defining it to themselves, and other govt departments. But the principle still remains that they're handing over locally served (ie maybe a server, maybe a desktop) data to a central cloud that will put its own limits on security, size, etc. Not to mention the separation of distance. No matter how good your network link is, it's not as good as your SATA interface! And at the worst of times you may loose not only your data, but your ability to create new data! One could weigh the pros cons of using regional data centres for this, versus a server room in the basement of the individual government buildings in Swansea (DVLA), Bristol (TV licensing) wherever, but I just feel too pessimistic about this today to feel it's worth it. I'm all for data centres, since they can put massive CPU and storage volumes at the other end of the network link for you to work with (backups, web servers, etc) but it becomes very problematic when you use a web browser to write an office document. I think they are thinking along the lines of Citrix XenApps and thin client (e.g. HP running Neoware-RHL) on the desktops. This is what is being tried out currently in a number of offices/buildings. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:39:37 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote: I don't think his objections are just related to public vs private. As Neil said, there's the security problem to begin with, where one large government data centre has more data to compromise that a small one... On the other hand, centralised storage means you shouldn't get idiots posting out CDs with millions of people's bank account details. There again, if the admins are lax enough to allow people to do this, and people are daft enough to do it, they would have real trouble understanding the concept of central storage :( -- Neil Bothwick First Law of Laboratory Work: Hot glass looks exactly the same as cold glass. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Friday 29 January 2010 23:59:36 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:39:37 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote: I don't think his objections are just related to public vs private. As Neil said, there's the security problem to begin with, where one large government data centre has more data to compromise that a small one... On the other hand, centralised storage means you shouldn't get idiots posting out CDs with millions of people's bank account details. There again, if the admins are lax enough to allow people to do this, and people are daft enough to do it, they would have real trouble understanding the concept of central storage :( You seem to grossly under-estimate the ability of the average idiot. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:21:33 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On the other hand, centralised storage means you shouldn't get idiots posting out CDs with millions of people's bank account details. There again, if the admins are lax enough to allow people to do this, and people are daft enough to do it, they would have real trouble understanding the concept of central storage :( You seem to grossly under-estimate the ability of the average idiot. We don't have average idiots in /our/ civil service! -- Neil Bothwick Math and alcohol don't mix. Don't drink and derive. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
UK cloud computing strategy could save up to £3.2bn a year, says Cabinet Office. The government has unveiled a sweeping strategy to create its own internal cloud computing system – such as that used by Google, Microsoft and Amazon – as part of a radical plan that it claims could save up to £3.2bn a year from an annual bill of at least £16bn. The key part of the new strategy, outlined by the Cabinet Office minister Angela Smith, will be the concentration of government computing power into a series of about a dozen highly secure data centres, each costing up to £250m to build, which will replace more than 500 presently used by central government, police forces and local authorities. The government will also push for open source software to be used more widely among central and local government's 4m desktop computers. That poses an immediate threat to Microsoft, whose Windows operating system and Office applications suite is at present firmly embedded as the standard on PCs in government, such as the NHS, which is one of the largest users in Europe. But John Suffolk, the government's chief information officer, pointed out that cost savings of just £100 per machine would total £400m across government. Unlike Windows, open source operating systems such as Linux have no licensing costs and can be used on as many machines as required. By 2015, the strategy suggests, 80% of central government desktops could be supplied through a shared utility service – essentially a cloud service resembling Google Docs, which lets people create documents online for free. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jan/27/cloud-computing-government-uk
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
You're right... completely OT... -a
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 07:41 -0500, Albert Hopkins wrote: You're right... completely OT... not if they use Gentoo... :p -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Any road followed to its end leads precisely nowhere. Climb the mountain just a little to test it's a mountain. From the top of the mountain, you cannot see the mountain. -- Bene Gesserit proverb, Dune
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: I want to get excited, but I just *know* they're going to mess it up...
They got it right for being open to OSS, but they got it wrong with the word cloud... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au BOFH Excuse #189: SCSI's too wide.
