Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Daniel da Veiga wrote: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 15:16, Paul Hartman > wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: >>> On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are > > based on my own preferences. > > > > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only > > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to > > skin this cat is not what I need here. > > In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going > to be good enough if the documents are shared. If you're > exporting or importing something just one time, you can get > usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards. > > But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple > times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using > two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of > MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will > steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to > another. At least that's my experience. That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks for sharing though :-) >>> >>> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like >>> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by >>> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a >>> dead awful choice. >>> >>> A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for >>> portability and longevity. However, that suggestion's probably >>> not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time >>> you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font >>> combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all >>> the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real >>> work. >>> >>> My next choice would probably be something like RTF. If you >>> get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit >>> yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable >>> and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion >>> of graphics. The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is >>> pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well. >>> >>> HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than >>> RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to >>> keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of >>> "WYSIWYG" HTML editors. >> >> Google Apps is great for sharing documents.. You can even have >> multiple people editing in real-time and see each other's work. It's >> kind of fun, and all you need is a web browser. >> >> Again, irrelevant to the OP since he can't change his company's >> policy... but good to keep in mind for anyone who can :) >> > > I had this problem a while ago. I'm using CrossOffice with Word 2000 > and needed to open and change some docx. > Microsoft launched a compatibility pack for Office 2000, it works > great, I'm using it, you may find more info and some tips here: > > http://stuffem.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/quick-tip-reading-office-2007-docx-files/ Of course the compatiblity pack has the same problem, it does not magically give older Office the new features. If someone using Office 2007 actually uses new 2007 features, they will be lost when you open in the older Office version. On the other hand, if the person who created the document isn't using any 2007-exclusive features, they should not use the 2007 format, and then you could avoid this whole nightmare in the first place. Paul
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 15:16, Paul Hartman wrote: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon wrote: >>> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote: On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon wrote: > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are > based on my own preferences. > > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to > skin this cat is not what I need here. In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going to be good enough if the documents are shared. If you're exporting or importing something just one time, you can get usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards. But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to another. At least that's my experience. >>> >>> That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks >>> for sharing though :-) >> >> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like >> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by >> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a >> dead awful choice. >> >> A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for >> portability and longevity. However, that suggestion's probably >> not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time >> you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font >> combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all >> the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real >> work. >> >> My next choice would probably be something like RTF. If you >> get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit >> yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable >> and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion >> of graphics. The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is >> pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well. >> >> HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than >> RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to >> keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of >> "WYSIWYG" HTML editors. > > Google Apps is great for sharing documents.. You can even have > multiple people editing in real-time and see each other's work. It's > kind of fun, and all you need is a web browser. > > Again, irrelevant to the OP since he can't change his company's > policy... but good to keep in mind for anyone who can :) > I had this problem a while ago. I'm using CrossOffice with Word 2000 and needed to open and change some docx. Microsoft launched a compatibility pack for Office 2000, it works great, I'm using it, you may find more info and some tips here: http://stuffem.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/quick-tip-reading-office-2007-docx-files/ -- Daniel da Veiga
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon wrote: >> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote: >>> On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon wrote: >>> > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are >>> > based on my own preferences. >>> > >>> > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only >>> > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to >>> > skin this cat is not what I need here. >>> >>> In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going >>> to be good enough if the documents are shared. If you're >>> exporting or importing something just one time, you can get >>> usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards. >>> >>> But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple >>> times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using >>> two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of >>> MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will >>> steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to >>> another. At least that's my experience. >> >> That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks >> for sharing though :-) > > I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like > .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by > multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a > dead awful choice. > > A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for > portability and longevity. However, that suggestion's probably > not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time > you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font > combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all > the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real > work. > > My next choice would probably be something like RTF. If you > get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit > yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable > and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion > of graphics. The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is > pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well. > > HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than > RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to > keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of > "WYSIWYG" HTML editors. Google Apps is great for sharing documents.. You can even have multiple people editing in real-time and see each other's work. It's kind of fun, and all you need is a web browser. Again, irrelevant to the OP since he can't change his company's policy... but good to keep in mind for anyone who can :) Paul
[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Tuesday 27 January 2009 17:46:46 Grant Edwards wrote: >> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like >> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by >> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a >> dead awful choice. >>[...] > > The management and I have an agreement: > > They do not get to tell me who gets access to the company's core > infrastructure. > I do not get to set company policy. > > The latter applies here. Yea, I assumed something like that to be the case and that it was a moot argument. Perhaps somebody else will learn from it, but those most likely in need probably don't frequent this list -- making it doubly moot. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Boy, am I glad it's at only 1971... visi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 17:46:46 Grant Edwards wrote: > I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like > .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by > multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a > dead awful choice. > > A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for > portability and longevity. However, that suggestion's probably > not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time > you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font > combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all > the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real > work. The management and I have an agreement: They do not get to tell me who gets access to the company's core infrastructure. I do not get to set company policy. The latter applies here. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon wrote: >> > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are >> > based on my own preferences. >> > >> > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only >> > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to >> > skin this cat is not what I need here. >> >> In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going >> to be good enough if the documents are shared. If you're >> exporting or importing something just one time, you can get >> usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards. >> >> But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple >> times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using >> two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of >> MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will >> steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to >> another. At least that's my experience. > > That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks > for sharing though :-) I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a dead awful choice. A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for portability and longevity. However, that suggestion's probably not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real work. My next choice would probably be something like RTF. If you get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion of graphics. The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well. HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of "WYSIWYG" HTML editors. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! does your DRESSING at ROOM have enough ASPARAGUS? visi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are > > based on my own preferences. > > > > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only > > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to > > skin this cat is not what I need here. > > In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going > to be good enough if the documents are shared. If you're > exporting or importing something just one time, you can get > usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards. > > But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple > times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using > two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of > MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will > steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to > another. At least that's my experience. > > Sorry. That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks for sharing though :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon wrote: > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are > based on my own preferences. > > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to > skin this cat is not what I need here. In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going to be good enough if the documents are shared. If you're exporting or importing something just one time, you can get usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards. But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to another. At least that's my experience. Sorry. -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 00:16:04 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > I have a stock standard openoffice-3.0.0 here (not bin) and it claims to > > write Office 2003 XML. I believe from colleagues that this is not the > > same as 2007 .docx and I believe them as my Office 2003 in Crossover > > cannot open .docx > > > > I could be wrong though - I don't know all the ins and outs of MS's > > latest format decisions > > You can write in 2003 format. I think Office 2007 should open them just > fine, or? These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are based on my own preferences. I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to skin this cat is not what I need here. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007
Alan McKinnon wrote: I have a stock standard openoffice-3.0.0 here (not bin) and it claims to write Office 2003 XML. I believe from colleagues that this is not the same as 2007 .docx and I believe them as my Office 2003 in Crossover cannot open .docx I could be wrong though - I don't know all the ins and outs of MS's latest format decisions You can write in 2003 format. I think Office 2007 should open them just fine, or?
