Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-26 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 07:40:51 -0500 (EST) Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| fwiw, the termcap internals of vim and screen are just as ugly as
| vi's - and they're much larger - and I don't see any complaints about
| those programs on this list.

Yes, but both of those can be told to use pure terminfo rather than
termcap.

| p.s: the vile ebuild that you mentioned a few weeks ago has an
| obsolete homepage.  It helps to keep in contact with the upstream
| developers.

Yeah, I sent you an email about that, and got a bounce message:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL
FROM:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: host mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]: 550
5.0.0 Unauthorized Sender Sep 05

9.5 is in the tree and should be correct, anyway. Still looking for
someone to maintain it...

-- 
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
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Re: (fwd) Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-26 Thread Thomas Dickey

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Thomas Dickey wrote:


On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 07:40:51 -0500 (EST) Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| fwiw, the termcap internals of vim and screen are just as ugly as
| vi's - and they're much larger - and I don't see any complaints about
| those programs on this list.

Yes, but both of those can be told to use pure terminfo rather than
termcap.


I'm certain we're talking about something different, since neither vim nor 
screen uses any other interface in that area than termcap.


I was just in screen yesterday, and am looking at vim right now, just
in case some feature has crept in.  If it were in fact using terminfo
rather than termcap, it would call one of these functions:

   int setupterm(char *term, int fildes, int *errret);
   int setterm(char *term);
   char *tparm(char *str, ...);
   int tputs(const char *str, int affcnt, int (*putc)(int));
   int tigetflag(char *capname);
   int tigetnum(char *capname);
   char *tigetstr(char *capname);

All three of those programs use the same interface from ncurses - the 
termcap one.



| p.s: the vile ebuild that you mentioned a few weeks ago has an
| obsolete homepage.  It helps to keep in contact with the upstream
| developers.

Yeah, I sent you an email about that, and got a bounce message:


odd - I know that radixnet filters spam, but haven't seen any comments 
about bounces.  (otoh, it doesn't seem to work to send email to this list 
from _that_ host, which again, I've not seen before).  his.com seems to 
work...



9.5 is in the tree and should be correct, anyway. Still looking for
someone to maintain it...


ok - I see this

http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/app-editors/vile/vile-9.5.ebuild?rev=1.1view=markup

The --with-ncurses is redundant (and --with-screen=ncurses is not as well
supported as the default - I made some fixes after 9.5 for the former, 
so it should be comparable right now).


You might also consider --with-loadable-filters (that makes a smaller 
executable).


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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-26 Thread Thomas Dickey



On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 07:40:51 -0500 (EST) Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| fwiw, the termcap internals of vim and screen are just as ugly as
| vi's - and they're much larger - and I don't see any complaints about
| those programs on this list.

Yes, but both of those can be told to use pure terminfo rather than
termcap.


I'm certain we're talking about something different, since neither vim nor 
screen uses any other interface in that area than termcap.


I was just in screen yesterday, and am looking at vim right now, just
in case some feature has crept in.  If it were in fact using terminfo
rather than termcap, it would call one of these functions:

   int setupterm(char *term, int fildes, int *errret);
   int setterm(char *term);
   char *tparm(char *str, ...);
   int tputs(const char *str, int affcnt, int (*putc)(int));
   int tigetflag(char *capname);
   int tigetnum(char *capname);
   char *tigetstr(char *capname);

All three of those programs use the same interface from ncurses - the termcap 
one.



| p.s: the vile ebuild that you mentioned a few weeks ago has an
| obsolete homepage.  It helps to keep in contact with the upstream
| developers.

Yeah, I sent you an email about that, and got a bounce message:


odd - I know that radixnet filters spam, but haven't seen any comments about 
bounces.  (otoh, it doesn't seem to work to send email to this list from 
_that_ host, which again, I've not seen before).  his.com seems to work...



9.5 is in the tree and should be correct, anyway. Still looking for
someone to maintain it...


ok - I see this

http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/app-editors/vile/vile-9.5.ebuild?rev=1.1view=markup

The --with-ncurses is redundant (and --with-screen=ncurses is not as well
supported as the default - I made some fixes after 9.5 for the former, so it 
should be comparable right now).


You might also consider --with-loadable-filters (that makes a smaller 
executable).


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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-26 Thread Thomas Dickey



On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 07:40:51 -0500 (EST) Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| fwiw, the termcap internals of vim and screen are just as ugly as
| vi's - and they're much larger - and I don't see any complaints about
| those programs on this list.

Yes, but both of those can be told to use pure terminfo rather than
termcap.


grumble: his.com has pine, and I _thought_ I'd edited things to send
it back to the mailing list thread - I see my reply in the mailing list,
which should be enough (fortunately most mailing lists are simpler to 
communicate with than gentoo).


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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-26 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:02:37 -0500 (EST) Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| I'm certain we're talking about something different, since neither
| vim nor screen uses any other interface in that area than termcap.
| 
| I was just in screen yesterday, and am looking at vim right now, just
| in case some feature has crept in.  If it were in fact using terminfo
| rather than termcap, it would call one of these functions:
snip
| All three of those programs use the same interface from ncurses - the
| termcap one.

Vim has --with-tlib=. If it's set to ncurses, everything works nicely.
If it's set to termcap it ends up mangling the screen.

|  9.5 is in the tree and should be correct, anyway. Still looking for
|  someone to maintain it...
| 
| ok - I see this
| 
| 
http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/app-editors/vile/vile-9.5.ebuild?rev=1.1view=markup
| 
| The --with-ncurses is redundant (and --with-screen=ncurses is not as
| well supported as the default - I made some fixes after 9.5 for the
| former, so it should be comparable right now).
| 
| You might also consider --with-loadable-filters (that makes a smaller 
| executable).

Hrm, if I add --with-loadable-filters to the 9.5 ebuilds I get a
compile error:

i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -c -I. -I.. -I../filters -I.. -DHAVE_CONFIG_H
-I./filters  -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64
-I/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.6/i686-linux/CORE  -D_GNU_SOURCE
-DVILE_STARTUP_PATH=\/usr/share/vile\ -Wall -rdynamic -O2
-march=pentium4 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -D__CIARANM_WAS_HERE__
-Wall  -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe  filters.c
In file included from ./flt_defs.h:35,
from ./filters.h:12,
from filters.c:8:
../estruct.h:1971:21: nemode.h: No such file or directory

Looks like it's parallel build related. With MAKEOPTS=-j1 it goes away,
but with anything higher it fails consistently.

-- 
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm



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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-26 Thread Thomas Dickey

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:


On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:02:37 -0500 (EST) Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| I'm certain we're talking about something different, since neither
| vim nor screen uses any other interface in that area than termcap.
|
| I was just in screen yesterday, and am looking at vim right now, just
| in case some feature has crept in.  If it were in fact using terminfo
| rather than termcap, it would call one of these functions:
snip
| All three of those programs use the same interface from ncurses - the
| termcap one.

Vim has --with-tlib=. If it's set to ncurses, everything works nicely.
If it's set to termcap it ends up mangling the screen.


The default value is ncurses though, as I read src/configure.in

  case `uname -s 2/dev/null` in
OSF1)   tlibs=ncurses curses termlib termcap;;
*)  tlibs=ncurses termlib termcap curses;;
  esac

And there're two factors to consider: the terminal database, and the 
library.  Either may be a problem.  But I don't offhand know of a problem

with either that would mangle the screen with GNU termcap.  From the
termcap interface up, vim would do the same thing anyway since it's
a termcap application (uses tgetent, tgoto, etc).  term.c is about 5400
lines of code...

Note that vim uses tgoto() rather than tparm() - and uses that for 
updating colors.  Not exactly the intended use of that function, but

it works.


| You might also consider --with-loadable-filters (that makes a smaller
| executable).

Hrm, if I add --with-loadable-filters to the 9.5 ebuilds I get a
compile error:

...

Looks like it's parallel build related. With MAKEOPTS=-j1 it goes away,
but with anything higher it fails consistently.


yes - I haven't done anything regarding parallel build for vile.
Only ncurses, iirc.  I'll add that to my to-do list.

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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-25 Thread Klaus Fabritius
* Alexander Skwar schrieb:

[traditional vi]
 Beats me why somebody would want to use it, though.

Experimental archaeology, historical reenactment. It's one of the most
successful applications ever. Thirty years after Bill Joy started
coding it, people are typing $ vi ~/.emacsrc ;-)

I just installed it and I'm writing this mail with it. Well, feels
like trying to make fire with a flint and fingers which tend to use it 
like a lighter.


  -kfk

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-25 Thread Dan Meltzer
On Saturday 24 December 2005 12:34, George Ellison wrote:
 Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Ivan Novick schrieb:
  Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not
  vim??
 
  No, as there's no normal VI for Linux. There are just clones.
  But if you don't like the vim clone, why don't you try on
  of the others?
 
  BTW: How can you *not* like vim? I mean, it's very much
  compatible to vi, isn't it?

 emerge -C vim  emerge emacs

emerge -C emacs  emerge ed

at least have a unique trollage

 --
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-25 Thread Martin S
2005/12/25, Dan Meltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Saturday 24 December 2005 12:34, George Ellison wrote: Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:  Ivan Novick schrieb:  Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not
  vim??   No, as there's no normal VI for Linux. There are just clones.  But if you don't like the vim clone, why don't you try on  of the others? 
  BTW: How can you *not* like vim? I mean, it's very much  compatible to vi, isn't it? emerge -C vim  emerge emacsemerge -C emacs  emerge ed
emerge -C emacs  emerge -C ed  emerge dosemu ...dosemu edlinOr perhaps that too esoteric. Or is ed a better choice in the circumstances?Regards,
Martin S


Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-25 Thread Thomas Dickey

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:


On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:34:08 +0100 Harald Arnesen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| There is no ebuild, but you can download and compile vi. It is at
| http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net.

No you can't. It's either broken or will become broken in the future
with our lack of termcap setup, hence why the ebuilds were removed.


ncurses provides a termcap interface, so these applications will continue 
to work properly.


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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-25 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 14:33:04 -0500 (EST) Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| On Sat, 24 Dec 2005, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
|  On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:34:08 +0100 Harald Arnesen
|  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|  | There is no ebuild, but you can download and compile vi. It is at
|  | http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net.
| 
|  No you can't. It's either broken or will become broken in the future
|  with our lack of termcap setup, hence why the ebuilds were
|  removed.
| 
| ncurses provides a termcap interface, so these applications will
| continue to work properly.

We were getting segfaults with TERM=linux when using the ncurses
termcap interface with ex-vi. IIRC, at the time no-one was sufficiently
interested to try to track it down properly.

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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-25 Thread Walter Dnes
On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 05:56:24PM +, Ivan Novick wrote
 OK.  Thanks for all the replies.
 
 I will just use vim.

  Run it as vim -C.  From the vim manpage...

   -C  Compatible. Set the 'compatible' option. This will make
   Vim  behave mostly  like Vi,  even though a .vimrc file
   exists.

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[gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Ivan Novick

Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

Thanks,
Ivan
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread George Ellison
Ivan Novick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

I think that the closest in portage is nvi, which is what the BSD's have
by default.
-- 
Natural selection won't matter soon, not anywhere as much as concious selection.
We will civilize and alter ourselves to suit our ideas of what we can be.
Within one more human lifespan, we will have changed ourselves unrecognizably.
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Spider (DmD Lj)
On Sat, 2005-12-24 at 11:15 +, Ivan Novick wrote:
 Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

You don't want normal vi, trust me on this. : )

We do have nvi, (elvis, but I'm not sure there) and if you're
desperate for the original feeling of loss,  the busybox vi
implementation. However, the -classic- vi source is a headache and its
use of terminfo so horrendous that it causes brain-hemorrhaging if you
try to update it.


//Spider
  ex vi maintainer. Now suffering from hemorrhaging brainzombies.
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Robin
Of all the editors I have to say Nano is the best.  Being a former
Windows user : -)

Although this is totally off topic, I just had to let you know in case
you were wondering.



On 12/24/05, George Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ivan Novick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

 I think that the closest in portage is nvi, which is what the BSD's have
 by default.
 --
 Natural selection won't matter soon, not anywhere as much as concious 
 selection.
 We will civilize and alter ourselves to suit our ideas of what we can be.
 Within one more human lifespan, we will have changed ourselves unrecognizably.
 -- Greg Bear

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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Harald Arnesen
Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Ivan Novick schrieb:

 Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

 No, as there's no normal VI for Linux. There are just clones.

Sure there is. http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Harald Arnesen
Ivan Novick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

There is no ebuild, but you can download and compile vi. It is at
http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net.
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Alexander Skwar
Klaus Fabritius schrieb:
 * Alexander Skwar schrieb:
 Ivan Novick schrieb:
 Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??
 
 No, as there's no normal VI for Linux. There are just clones.
 [...]
 
 In 2002 Caldera opened the original vi from Bill Joy under a BSD-style
 license. There is a linux port from Gunnar Ritter at:

Oh, allright, I stand corrected.

Beats me why somebody would want to use it, though.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread George Ellison
Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Ivan Novick schrieb:

 Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

 No, as there's no normal VI for Linux. There are just clones.
 But if you don't like the vim clone, why don't you try on
 of the others?

 BTW: How can you *not* like vim? I mean, it's very much
 compatible to vi, isn't it?

emerge -C vim  emerge emacs

-- 
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That will *prove* I'm Robin Hood.
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:34:08 +0100 Harald Arnesen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| There is no ebuild, but you can download and compile vi. It is at
| http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net.

No you can't. It's either broken or will become broken in the future
with our lack of termcap setup, hence why the ebuilds were removed.

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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Lares Moreau
On Sat, 2005-12-24 at 12:34 -0500, George Ellison wrote:
 emerge -C vim  emerge emacs

Troll

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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Ivan Novick

OK.  Thanks for all the replies.

I will just use vim.

Cheers,
Ivan

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:34:08 +0100 Harald Arnesen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| There is no ebuild, but you can download and compile vi. It is at
| http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net.

No you can't. It's either broken or will become broken in the future
with our lack of termcap setup, hence why the ebuilds were removed.


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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread George Ellison
Lares Moreau [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Sat, 2005-12-24 at 12:34 -0500, George Ellison wrote:
 emerge -C vim  emerge emacs

 Troll


Chill out. I'm just being facetious.
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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Alexander Skwar
George Ellison schrieb:
 Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 Ivan Novick schrieb:

 Does anyone know if there is a gentoo package for normal VI, ie not vim??

 No, as there's no normal VI for Linux. There are just clones.
 But if you don't like the vim clone, why don't you try on
 of the others?

 BTW: How can you *not* like vim? I mean, it's very much
 compatible to vi, isn't it?

 emerge -C vim  emerge emacs

Uhm - emacs is more compatible to vi than vim?

I don't think so.

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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Philip Webb
051224 Ivan Novick wrote:
 Thanks for all the replies.  I will just use vim.

You can set Vim up to act as if it were Vi : look at its dox.
As everyone else has responded too, I don't understand why you want to,
but Linux  esp Gentoo are basically about user choice (smile).
If you want a really simple editor, I recommend 'app-editors/e3'.

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Re: [gentoo-user] VI

2005-12-24 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:10:03 -0500 Philip Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| You can set Vim up to act as if it were Vi : look at its dox.

Bad idea. You lose multiple undo levels and the ability to edit more
than two files at once...

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Re: [gentoo-user] vi is mising from the portage

2005-04-27 Thread Tamas Sarga

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, kashani wrote:


 IIRC it used to be in portage as of around of a year ago. You might be
 able to track down an ebuild of it in the old ebuilds. I'd have been
 able to tell you for sure but I wiped it off my last machine last month
 when I enforced the vim with color syntax standardization.

 Once you get used to syntax highlighting you can never go back. Plus
 there is nothing like half your named.conf shifting to red to let you
 know you typo'ed a } somewhere.

 kashani

If you don't pleased with the built-in colour-schemes (such as me), just
copy a colorscheme to $VIMRUNTIME/colour (IIRC) and edit it.

HTH.
Cheers,
Tamas Sarga Srga Tams
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Re: [gentoo-user] vi is mising from the portage

2005-04-24 Thread Spider
On Wed, 2005-04-20 at 14:59 -0500, kashani wrote:
 Patrick Marquetecken wrote:
  Hi,
  
  I'm using a script for months now to install my gentoo servers, now after
  my last sync i have seen that there are some changes in the portage like
  there is no gentoo-dev-sources moved to gentoo-sources, but vi is also
  missing!
  Is this compleet gone? or also moved, can someone point me in the good
  direction.
  I love the good old vi
 
 IIRC it used to be in portage as of around of a year ago. You might be 
 able to track down an ebuild of it in the old ebuilds. I'd have been 
 able to tell you for sure but I wiped it off my last machine last month 
 when I enforced the vim with color syntax standardization.
 
 Once you get used to syntax highlighting you can never go back. Plus 
 there is nothing like half your named.conf shifting to red to let you 
 know you typo'ed a } somewhere.


well, its sorta orphaned due to being a pain to maintain
( terminfo /curses  dependencies)  there are still ebuilds, you can look
in the viewcvs to recover the old ones I believe.

I added it mostly out of nostalgia back when Gentoo was young, since
then it became more of a burden to maintain, so it dropped out of the
tree.

//Spider

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Re: [gentoo-user] vi is mising from the portage

2005-04-24 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:06:20 -0400 Thomas Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| On Sun, Apr 24, 2005 at 01:16:38PM +0200, Spider wrote:
|  well, its sorta orphaned due to being a pain to maintain
|  ( terminfo /curses  dependencies)  there are still ebuilds, you can
|  look in the viewcvs to recover the old ones I believe.
| 
| all versions of vi rely on terminfo/termcap or curses.
| 
| Perhaps you meant to say something different.

What he meant was that traditional ex/vi is broken when built against
ncurses rather than termcap, and that we're trying to remove termcap
from the tree on the grounds that it's h0rked.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm



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Re: [gentoo-user] vi is mising from the portage

2005-04-24 Thread Thomas Dickey
On Sun, Apr 24, 2005 at 02:36:57PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 
 What he meant was that traditional ex/vi is broken when built against
 ncurses rather than termcap, and that we're trying to remove termcap
 from the tree on the grounds that it's h0rked.

traditional ex/vi sounds like Ritter's version.  It seems to work
(and I haven't noticed anyone reporting a bug relating it and ncurses).

Perhaps you would like to make a bug report.

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net


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Re: [gentoo-user] vi is mising from the portage

2005-04-20 Thread Michael Sullivan
VIM is still there.  Could you use that?

On Wed, 2005-04-20 at 19:34 +0200, Patrick Marquetecken wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm using a script for months now to install my gentoo servers, now after
 my last sync i have seen that there are some changes in the portage like
 there is no gentoo-dev-sources moved to gentoo-sources, but vi is also
 missing!
 Is this compleet gone? or also moved, can someone point me in the good
 direction.
 I love the good old vi
 
 TIA
 Patrick

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Re: [gentoo-user] vi is mising from the portage

2005-04-20 Thread kashani
Patrick Marquetecken wrote:
Hi,
I'm using a script for months now to install my gentoo servers, now after
my last sync i have seen that there are some changes in the portage like
there is no gentoo-dev-sources moved to gentoo-sources, but vi is also
missing!
Is this compleet gone? or also moved, can someone point me in the good
direction.
I love the good old vi
IIRC it used to be in portage as of around of a year ago. You might be 
able to track down an ebuild of it in the old ebuilds. I'd have been 
able to tell you for sure but I wiped it off my last machine last month 
when I enforced the vim with color syntax standardization.

Once you get used to syntax highlighting you can never go back. Plus 
there is nothing like half your named.conf shifting to red to let you 
know you typo'ed a } somewhere.

kashani
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