Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On 4/23/20 4:45 AM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:24:07PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: >> FWIW, I do know there are situations where static linking is the right >> thing to do. > > If you project require strong security, than it would be simpler to use > static linking. > If you have many instances of the same program or have many shortlived > processes of the > same program, than static linking is better(for ram and speed). > > Michael, just read about history of shared object. That was not technical > decision, > that was marketing decision. > I might believe you about speed, but not about RAM. Memory usage goes up with static linking because you've got multiple copies of the same thing loaded into memory. And that makes the performance argument tricky as well: you're saving a bit of CPU time on function calls, but maybe your cache is also filled up with those same copies of the same stuff, and as a result things actually get slower as you hit the disk to load the 22nd copy of a library. Ignoring that, the faster load time and speed improvements were minor to begin with. It's not worth making your system annoying to manage. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to shoot yourself in the foot, but you shouldn't be calling Alessandro or the QA team incompetent (that's my bit...) unless you have some strong new evidence that static linking improves things in a general-purpose linux distro.
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lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:19:26PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > >> If you only sync once a day, then yes, you'll only have to rebuild once >> a day. I sync considerably more than that though, and besides, it takes >> me about a week to emerge -e @world. > Just interesting, why you need to sync every day? > And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND? > Might be because Michael is a Gentoo developer. They have to sync a lot as they make changes to the tree. The two commands do different things. Using emerge -e calculates rebuilding every package while emerge -auDN only looks for certain updates. Each can be useful even if not allowed to complete. Dale :-) :-)
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On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:52:52AM +0300, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > Nobody talk about "everything is statically linked". > However, this is a good idea ;-), but this is a topic for another > conversation :-). No wonder Yandex considers you SPAM.
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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:19:26PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > It's not that everything depends on OpenSSL, but that everything depends > on /something/. If everything is statically linked, then any update of > any package sets off a chain reaction of other packages that trigger > rebuilds of other packages that trigger rebuilds of... Nobody talk about "everything is statically linked". However, this is a good idea ;-), but this is a topic for another conversation :-). > If you only sync once a day, then yes, you'll only have to rebuild once > a day. I sync considerably more than that though, and besides, it takes > me about a week to emerge -e @world. Just interesting, why you need to sync every day? And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND? -- Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)
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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:24:07PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > FWIW, I do know there are situations where static linking is the right > thing to do. If you project require strong security, than it would be simpler to use static linking. If you have many instances of the same program or have many shortlived processes of the same program, than static linking is better(for ram and speed). Michael, just read about history of shared object. That was not technical decision, that was marketing decision. -- Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)
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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:22:02PM -0500, Michael Jones wrote: > But I don't generally want my entire system statically linked, only a few > things. But who said that *entire* system should be statically linked? The conversation is so far only about such a critical thing as portage. -- Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)
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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:33:45PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > If you statically link more than a few things, this is emerge -e @world > twenty times a day. Hm :-D. And why it should be so? I run emerge one time in a week. If there are any changes in a dependancy of some package, why it can't be rebuild in the same emerge call? -- Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:19:19PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security > vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL? Hm. And why we need every package to be statically linked? I told just that static linking is a good and useful feature. Moreover, what the problem to rebuild all dependant packages? And yet, please don't tell about this imaginary advantage of shared objects. Because, this is in the same time and disadvantage too - we can just in ONE action supply a new security vulnerability to ALL software that use openssl shared object. Because all code has bugs :-). And if we talk about security code that moment is significant and should be considered carefully. So, we can say that for non-security software shared object can be used thoughtlessly and everywhere. But even here it's not so simple. Shared object is slow and consume more ram if we have many instances of our software running than statically linked version(thanks to sharing of common .text segments between all instances of a single program). And plan9 experience told us that for something that used by many programs(like openssl) it better to use services than shared object(in plan9 this implemented with help of "file servers"). Shared object isn't a holly cow. And please let's not be fanatics. -- Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)
