Re: [geo] Floodgates open for adaptation GE investment

2014-06-11 Thread Keith Henson
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Greg Rau gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 One wonders if the money would be better spent on reducing the cause of the 
 problem - CO2 emissions, or are we too late for that?

It's more that there isn't a good idea of how to do it.  More
accurately, there isn't a widely accepted idea of how to replace the
energy we get from fossil fuels, particularly from liquid
hydrocarbons.  You are probably sick of my harping on how I think it
could be solved, but I don't know of any other solutions that scale
large enough or generate energy at a low enough cost to avoid an
economic collapse.

Do you?

Make a case for one.  If it's better than the one I have been working
on, I will switch.

Though it's pointed in a slightly different direction, David MacKay's
_Sustainable Energy - without the hot air_ is applicable and well
worth reading.

 And what is the CO2 footprint and environmental impact of building a seawall?

It's not exactly the same thing, but the cost from Sandy, the storm
that is the reason for the project, was $65 B.  If they can put in a
seawall for $3.7 B and it prevents this magnitude of damage from only
one similar storm in the next few decades, the payback will be on the
order of 20 to one.

 Interesting how more costly climate change survival trumps less costly 
 climate change avoidance. Good luck with that. Greg

Make a case for less costly.  Measure it in dollars or human lives or both.

Keith

 CITIES:

 'Big U' plan to protect Manhattan from storm surges begins with a sea wall

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Re: [geo] Floodgates open for adaptation GE investment

2014-06-11 Thread Rau, Greg
OK, thanks. Survival/adaptation it is. That simplifies things; I'm
investing in seawall construction and air conditioning companies so I
might be able  to afford to survive/adapt.
Greg

On 6/10/14 2:46 PM, Keith Henson hkeithhen...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Greg Rau gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 One wonders if the money would be better spent on reducing the cause of
the problem - CO2 emissions, or are we too late for that?

It's more that there isn't a good idea of how to do it.  More
accurately, there isn't a widely accepted idea of how to replace the
energy we get from fossil fuels, particularly from liquid
hydrocarbons.  You are probably sick of my harping on how I think it
could be solved, but I don't know of any other solutions that scale
large enough or generate energy at a low enough cost to avoid an
economic collapse.

Do you?

Make a case for one.  If it's better than the one I have been working
on, I will switch.

Though it's pointed in a slightly different direction, David MacKay's
_Sustainable Energy - without the hot air_ is applicable and well
worth reading.

 And what is the CO2 footprint and environmental impact of building a
seawall?

It's not exactly the same thing, but the cost from Sandy, the storm
that is the reason for the project, was $65 B.  If they can put in a
seawall for $3.7 B and it prevents this magnitude of damage from only
one similar storm in the next few decades, the payback will be on the
order of 20 to one.

 Interesting how more costly climate change survival trumps less costly
climate change avoidance. Good luck with that. Greg

Make a case for less costly.  Measure it in dollars or human lives or
both.

Keith

 CITIES:

 'Big U' plan to protect Manhattan from storm surges begins with a sea
wall

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[geo] Floodgates open for adaptation GE investment

2014-06-10 Thread Greg Rau
One wonders if the money would be better spent on reducing the cause of the 
problem - CO2 emissions, or are we too late for that? And what is the CO2 
footprint and environmental impact of building a seawall?  Interesting how more 
costly climate change survival trumps less costly climate change avoidance. 
Good luck with that. 
Greg


CITIES:
'Big U' plan to protect Manhattan from storm surges begins with a sea wall
Colin Sullivan, EE reporterPublished: Tuesday, June 10, 2014
NEW YORK -- The $335 million in federal funds delivered last week for a sea 
wall on the Lower East Side of Manhattan is the first part of a much larger 
design vision for protecting the vibrant heart of the city, and its subways, 
against the threat of future storm surges.
The broader project is called the Big U for the Danish architecture firm that 
designed it -- Bjarke Ingels Group, or BIG -- and the ultimate shape the lower 
Manhattan defense system would take, wrapping a continuous 10-mile U shape from 
57th Street on the West Side all the way south around the Battery to 42nd 
Street on the Lower East Side.
The first phase was selected to protect the Lower East Side and the East 
Village because that part of the city was slammed during Superstorm Sandy and 
is still considered highly vulnerable to storm surges. It was this section of 
the city that saw a major Consolidated Edison substation catch fire, leading to 
a dayslong blackout, and floodwaters so high they leaked from the East River 
all the way past First Avenue.
A well-placed source in the mayor's office said this part of the larger project 
was selected for phase one because of high population density, including many 
lower-income residents in public housing, and the presence of key electrical 
infrastructure. The availability of federal Sandy-related dollars for a public 
works effort that would not likely attract private capital was also a crucial 
reason for the selection, said Henk Ovink, a special adviser to U.S. Housing 
and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan.
You have a lot of people at risk and at the same time no market interest, 
said Ovink, the Dutch water management expert brought in by Donovan after Sandy 
to help rebuild and protect the city.
Where Superstorm Sandy's storm surge once rolled into lower Manhattan, planners 
have designed the Bridging Berm to stop an encore. Graphic by Rebuild By 
Design.
The sea wall and the $335 million it attracted are also a down payment on 
Democratic Mayor Bill de Blasio's $3.7 billion overall plan for shoring up the 
city and improving defenses against big storms that was started by former Mayor 
Michael Bloomberg's (I) ambitious resiliency plan. The $335 million will fund a 
10-to-20-foot-tall berm and bridges over the Franklin D. Roosevelt East River 
Drive so New Yorkers can access the East River waterfront along a stretch that 
was a key inlet during the Sandy storm surge.
The project was hatched as a way to combine climate adaptation with improving 
recreational opportunities in the city, combining hard and soft infrastructure 
in a nature-as-buffer approach that has been refined in countries like Denmark 
and the Netherlands for decades. Also, the FDR Drive has long been considered 
an urban eyesore and a barrier by some who would like to see more waterfront 
activity here.
Building a defense by chunks
Ovink is the brains behind the Big U vision, which won the right to proceed 
through a federal program called Rebuild by Design he is managing for 
Donovan. The strategy, for now, appears to be using the federal money available 
first before trying to attract development dollars for ideas like Seaport City 
or high-priced condo concepts that could help bankroll projects along the 
Battery and up the West Side.
Ovink says the Big U idea, selected out of 148 designs, is fundamentally about 
coming up with a major infrastructure concept that becomes a community-driven 
solution through the design and engineering analysis of what protections would 
work best for the Big Apple. Ovink cites Rotterdam, Netherlands, as a city that 
has approached the problem of water as an opportunity, and he wants to bring 
the same emphasis to New York, moving the overall U forward in chunks or 
compartments.
It's like the hull of a ship, he said. If you take out one piece, the ship 
still sails.
Of the East Side wall, he added, It doesn't stand on its own but it can stand 
by itself. It's also meant to inspire the next phase.
The New York approach, which may be used as a template for other coastal cities 
facing storm surge problems, will move forward in three compartments, assuming 
each phase finds the money to go forward. After the Lower East Side wall might 
come the stretch between the Manhattan Bridge and Montgomery Street, with 
deployable walls that would be attached to the underside of the FDR Drive and 
ready to flip down to prepare for flood events.
[+] Stretching from West 57th Street south to the Battery, where