RE: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
Hello All, I'm told that it might be an airborne study associated with the SPICE project, but I cant gauge the accuracy of that supposition. Cheers, John. John Latham Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 Email: lat...@ucar.edu or john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [geoengineering@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Hawkins, Dave [dhawk...@nrdc.org] Sent: 17 June 2013 01:33 To: joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: “There is one experiment we’re currently undertaking – we’re trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway – and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we’re trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. (http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climate-silver-bullet/) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
Apologies - replied only to John first time. Also, I've changed the link for iagp to correct. It is interesting where iagp.org (my original choice) points... John, Josh et al., Piers Morgan is a modeller at Leeds, who runs the IAGP project - www.iagp.http://www.iagp.org/ ac.uk. It is undoubtedly a modelling effort and a typo if it pertains to his work. To be absolutely clear, SPICE is not involved in any experiment that sprays anything anywhere. Our one effort to investigate pumping technologies (using water) was, as I'm sure you're all aware, called off. If there is an experiment to 'dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide' SPICE is (a) not involved and (b) would be extremely alarmed. Matt On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:39 AM, John Latham john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk wrote: Hello All, I'm told that it might be an airborne study associated with the SPICE project, but I cant gauge the accuracy of that supposition. Cheers, John. John Latham Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 Email: lat...@ucar.edu or john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [geoengineering@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Hawkins, Dave [dhawk...@nrdc.org] Sent: 17 June 2013 01:33 To: joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.com mailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: “There is one experiment we’re currently undertaking – we’re trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway – and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we’re trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. ( http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climate-silver-bullet/ ) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto: geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
OK - I generally have a no email before my second cup of coffee rule, which I broke this morning as I wanted to make sure John's point was quickly dealt with. I did of course mean Piers Forster not Piers Morgan (thanks Simon Driscoll for pointing this out). Another rumour to add to the mill thanks to me... ho hum... Matt On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Matthew Watson matthew.wat...@gmail.comwrote: Apologies - replied only to John first time. Also, I've changed the link for iagp to correct. It is interesting where iagp.org (my original choice) points... John, Josh et al., Piers Morgan is a modeller at Leeds, who runs the IAGP project - www.iagp.http://www.iagp.org/ ac.uk. It is undoubtedly a modelling effort and a typo if it pertains to his work. To be absolutely clear, SPICE is not involved in any experiment that sprays anything anywhere. Our one effort to investigate pumping technologies (using water) was, as I'm sure you're all aware, called off. If there is an experiment to 'dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide' SPICE is (a) not involved and (b) would be extremely alarmed. Matt On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:39 AM, John Latham john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk wrote: Hello All, I'm told that it might be an airborne study associated with the SPICE project, but I cant gauge the accuracy of that supposition. Cheers, John. John Latham Address: P.O. Box 3000,MMM,NCAR,Boulder,CO 80307-3000 Email: lat...@ucar.edu or john.latha...@manchester.ac.uk Tel: (US-Work) 303-497-8182 or (US-Home) 303-444-2429 or (US-Cell) 303-882-0724 or (UK) 01928-730-002 http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/people/latham From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [geoengineering@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Hawkins, Dave [dhawk...@nrdc.org] Sent: 17 June 2013 01:33 To: joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.com mailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: “There is one experiment we’re currently undertaking – we’re trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway – and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we’re trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. ( http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climate-silver-bullet/ ) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto: geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
Dear Peter--I must have missed the paper. I agree that it could help thicken the ice. It seems to me the problems here, however, would be the engineering of it--how does one make it happen without icing up the whole apparatus, and how does one power it efficiently? On powering it, it would be great if it could take advantage of the temperature difference between the water below the ice and the air temperature above the ice, but it would just seem to me that the potential for icing up would be huge, so it would be hard to put out some sort of floating buoy system that just sprayed out a continuing stream in many directions, etc. I'd be interested in hearing about any ideas in this regard. Regards, Mike MacCracken On 6/17/13 4:56 PM, Peter Flynn peter.fl...@ualberta.ca wrote: I remain of the belief that simply creating thicker and more extensive ice by the known and proven technique of pumping or spraying water into cold air in the winter is a cheap, safe (because it can be halted at any time) and already demonstrated process (on both fresh and salt water). If any missed the previous paper on this I am happy to resend. This technique works by increasing the rate of heat transfer: water on top of ice freezes much more quickly than water at the bottom of ice because the ice is both an insulation layer and it prevents convective heat transfer from the water layer to the air. I think this is intuitively safer than atmospheric modification because it can be stopped at once. Peter Flynn Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Alberta peter.fl...@ualberta.ca cell: 928 451 4455 -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hawkins, Dave Sent: June-16-13 6:34 PM To: joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: There is one experiment we're currently undertaking - we're trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway - and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we're trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. (http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climat e-silver-bullet/) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubscr i...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
I'd suggest wind pumps as used on the prairie to lift groundwater. Just set them up on the windy, seasonal ice sheet, drill a hole, and pump away. They'd have floats so after summer-melt out they could be rounded up by ship, hopefully sail-powered, or they could be permanently anchored to the seafloor. Net carbon/climate cost/benefit? Then there is high altitude wind: tether HAW generators to sea ice or sea floor. Use the electricity to pump seawater and/or run a pipe partway up the tether and spray seawater, making snow/aerosol for albedo effects +- snow/water for ice thickening. Better check with the seals and polar bears for preferred ice thickness. Also, biofouling of pipes, pumps, and nozzles could be a showstopper. Anyway, perhaps we should inform PCAST of this new adaptation strategy before their next definitive report ;-) -Greg From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [geoengineering@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Hawkins, Dave [dhawk...@nrdc.org] Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 2:17 PM To: Peter Flynn; joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? What is your energy source for this pumping and spraying? -Original Message- From: Peter Flynn [mailto:peter.fl...@ualberta.ca] Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 4:56 PM To: Hawkins, Dave; joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? I remain of the belief that simply creating thicker and more extensive ice by the known and proven technique of pumping or spraying water into cold air in the winter is a cheap, safe (because it can be halted at any time) and already demonstrated process (on both fresh and salt water). If any missed the previous paper on this I am happy to resend. This technique works by increasing the rate of heat transfer: water on top of ice freezes much more quickly than water at the bottom of ice because the ice is both an insulation layer and it prevents convective heat transfer from the water layer to the air. I think this is intuitively safer than atmospheric modification because it can be stopped at once. Peter Flynn Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Alberta peter.fl...@ualberta.ca cell: 928 451 4455 -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hawkins, Dave Sent: June-16-13 6:34 PM To: joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: There is one experiment we're currently undertaking - we're trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway - and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we're trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. (http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climat e-silver-bullet/) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubs geoengineering+cr i...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group
Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
If some material could be added to the ice as it reforms in the winter, could a layer of ice-crete be formed in startegic places to them slow the melt and physical break-up of the ise the following summer, and use this to build multi-year ice again? Especially in the shallow coastal waters off northern Russia where ice loss is severe and methane hydrates perhaps most unstable and in need of the cooling effect if an ice layer. I realise there are scale challenges but I hope this can be overcome when we think about other things done en masse. A local seaweed or grass might make a good substrate to do some lab tests, and then field trials. If anyone has any constructive thoughts, I am keen to hear back. Many thanks, Emily. Sent from my BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Peter Flynn peter.fl...@ualberta.ca Sender: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:56:11 To: dhawk...@nrdc.org; joshuahorton...@gmail.com Reply-To: pcfl...@ualberta.ca Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? I remain of the belief that simply creating thicker and more extensive ice by the known and proven technique of pumping or spraying water into cold air in the winter is a cheap, safe (because it can be halted at any time) and already demonstrated process (on both fresh and salt water). If any missed the previous paper on this I am happy to resend. This technique works by increasing the rate of heat transfer: water on top of ice freezes much more quickly than water at the bottom of ice because the ice is both an insulation layer and it prevents convective heat transfer from the water layer to the air. I think this is intuitively safer than atmospheric modification because it can be stopped at once. Peter Flynn Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Alberta peter.fl...@ualberta.ca cell: 928 451 4455 -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hawkins, Dave Sent: June-16-13 6:34 PM To: joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: There is one experiment we're currently undertaking - we're trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway - and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we're trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. (http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climat e-silver-bullet/) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubscr i...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https
Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
On energy source, can the temp or pressure difference between deeper and surface water and air be used? The problem I see is keeping the kit working in hostile environemnt. Sent from my BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Hawkins, Dave dhawk...@nrdc.org Sender: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:17:59 To: Peter Flynnpeter.fl...@ualberta.ca; joshuahorton...@gmail.comjoshuahorton...@gmail.com Reply-To: dhawk...@nrdc.org Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.comgeoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? What is your energy source for this pumping and spraying? -Original Message- From: Peter Flynn [mailto:peter.fl...@ualberta.ca] Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 4:56 PM To: Hawkins, Dave; joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? I remain of the belief that simply creating thicker and more extensive ice by the known and proven technique of pumping or spraying water into cold air in the winter is a cheap, safe (because it can be halted at any time) and already demonstrated process (on both fresh and salt water). If any missed the previous paper on this I am happy to resend. This technique works by increasing the rate of heat transfer: water on top of ice freezes much more quickly than water at the bottom of ice because the ice is both an insulation layer and it prevents convective heat transfer from the water layer to the air. I think this is intuitively safer than atmospheric modification because it can be stopped at once. Peter Flynn Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Alberta peter.fl...@ualberta.ca cell: 928 451 4455 -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hawkins, Dave Sent: June-16-13 6:34 PM To: joshuahorton...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic? Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: There is one experiment we're currently undertaking - we're trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway - and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we're trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. (http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climat e-silver-bullet/) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubs geoengineering+cr i...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Experiment Currently Taking Place in the Arctic?
Sounds like a modeling exercise: stimulating should be simulating, I assume. Typed on tiny keyboard. Caveat lector. On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Near the end of a recent, otherwise unremarkable story about geoengineering at RTCC (link below), Piers Forster from Leeds University is quoted as follows: “There is one experiment we’re currently undertaking – we’re trying to look at rescuing Arctic Ice by stimulating aeroplanes flying from Spitzbergen in Norway – and dump out a lot of Sulphur Dioxide, and we’re trying to look at that as a very short term protection against the loss of Arctic Ice. (http://www.rtcc.org/scientists-warn-earth-cooling-proposals-are-no-climate-silver-bullet/) Does anyone know what he is talking about? Josh Horton joshuahorton...@gmail.commailto:joshuahorton...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
