Re: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > But then I received it again, yesterday. The very same message! I have > no idea why. Email is a Mysterious Medium. I think they restarted the mailing list server; I got that message and a handful of other messages, which apparently never got cleared from the mail queue or something. And IIRC shortly before the resends, someone in #haskell was asking if there were problems with the mailing lists. (this kind of stuff is why I got out of the business of running mail servers) -- brandon s allbery kf8nh sine nomine associates allber...@gmail.com ballb...@sinenomine.net unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonadhttp://sinenomine.net ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
RE: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
Ha ha. You may wonder why I’m replying to a message from four months ago. Mark’s message was written on 13 Oct 2015, and was delivered to me then. And I replied the same day, at rather greater length than below. But then I received it again, yesterday. The very same message! I have no idea why. Email is a Mysterious Medium. Anyway, thanking Mark twice is something he deserves anyway ☺. Simon From: Simon Peyton Jones Sent: 22 February 2016 11:54 To: 'Mark Lentczner' Cc: haskell-platf...@projects.haskell.org; Haskell Libraries ; ghc-devs@haskell.org Subject: RE: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform Mark I’m really sorry to see you go. You have played a key leadership role, and have given us a lot of your most precious and inelastic commodity, your own time. Thank you! Simon From: haskell-platform-boun...@projects.haskell.org<mailto:haskell-platform-boun...@projects.haskell.org> [mailto:haskell-platform-boun...@projects.haskell.org] On Behalf Of Mark Lentczner Sent: 13 October 2015 04:09 To: haskell-platf...@projects.haskell.org<mailto:haskell-platf...@projects.haskell.org>; Haskell Libraries mailto:librar...@haskell.org>>; ghc-devs@haskell.org<mailto:ghc-devs@haskell.org> Subject: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform I think this is the right time for me to exit: The truth is, I still can't bring myself to use a version of Haskell post the Foldable-Traversable-aPocalypse, let alone some future Haskell after the changes now in the works. My personal machines are all still 7.8. My personal projects are all pre-FTP. The Haskell I love to code in, the Haskell I'm passionate about, the Haskell I've advocated for real world use, and the Haskell I like to teach, is 7.8, pre-FTP. It's not that I'm dead set against change and evolution in a language, or even breaking changes. But FTP and beyond are changes that have lost the balance that Haskell had between abstraction and clarity, between elaborate and practical engineering. I don't see any restraint going forward, so I'm getting off the train. This puts me in an odd position with respect to Haskell Platform: I find myself building the Platform for a version of Haskell that I don't use. This isn't healthy for either the Platform or me. Hence, I'm resigning as release manager. I am sad because I believed that Haskell's path to much wider adoption was within reach. Now, especially with the ramping up of the Haskell Prime committee, which seems preordained to codify FTP and beyond into standard, we are approaching our Algol 68 moment: Building a major language revision with less opportunity than it's predecessor. I'll still see you 'round at meet-ups and conferences. I'll just be coding with an older accent. - Mark "mzero" Lentczner ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
RE: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
Mark I’m really sorry to see you go. You have played a key leadership role, and have given us a lot of your most precious and inelastic commodity, your own time. Thank you! Simon From: haskell-platform-boun...@projects.haskell.org [mailto:haskell-platform-boun...@projects.haskell.org] On Behalf Of Mark Lentczner Sent: 13 October 2015 04:09 To: haskell-platf...@projects.haskell.org; Haskell Libraries ; ghc-devs@haskell.org Subject: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform I think this is the right time for me to exit: The truth is, I still can't bring myself to use a version of Haskell post the Foldable-Traversable-aPocalypse, let alone some future Haskell after the changes now in the works. My personal machines are all still 7.8. My personal projects are all pre-FTP. The Haskell I love to code in, the Haskell I'm passionate about, the Haskell I've advocated for real world use, and the Haskell I like to teach, is 7.8, pre-FTP. It's not that I'm dead set against change and evolution in a language, or even breaking changes. But FTP and beyond are changes that have lost the balance that Haskell had between abstraction and clarity, between elaborate and practical engineering. I don't see any restraint going forward, so I'm getting off the train. This puts me in an odd position with respect to Haskell Platform: I find myself building the Platform for a version of Haskell that I don't use. This isn't healthy for either the Platform or me. Hence, I'm resigning as release manager. I am sad because I believed that Haskell's path to much wider adoption was within reach. Now, especially with the ramping up of the Haskell Prime committee, which seems preordained to codify FTP and beyond into standard, we are approaching our Algol 68 moment: Building a major language revision with less opportunity than it's predecessor. I'll still see you 'round at meet-ups and conferences. I'll just be coding with an older accent. - Mark "mzero" Lentczner ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
Re: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
On 10/13/2015 05:08 AM, Mark Lentczner wrote: > I think this is the right time for me to exit: > I'm pretty sure that there are many things that we could agree or disagree on, but *THANK YOU* for your efforts on improving the Haskell ecosystem and your efforts to spread the word! Regards, ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
Re: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
Hi Mark, I know how frustrating and demotivating it can be to be on the dissenting side of of a change like this. Thanks for all of your contributions to the community. Best regards On Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 06:36 Takenobu Tani wrote: > Dear Mark, > > Thank you for your efforts. > > You've gave us a lot of opportunity to meet haskell. > There are many people on the back side of the firewall. > They can't access over the firewall. > HP, all-in-one and web downloadable package, is very useful for them. > > Thanks to you, we were able to enjoy the haskell. > > Thank you very much, > Takenobu > > > 2015-10-13 12:08 GMT+09:00 Mark Lentczner : > >> I think this is the right time for me to exit: >> >> The truth is, I still can't bring myself to use a version of Haskell post >> the Foldable-Traversable-aPocalypse, let alone some future Haskell after >> the changes now in the works. My personal machines are all still 7.8. My >> personal projects are all pre-FTP. The Haskell I love to code in, the >> Haskell I'm passionate about, the Haskell I've advocated for real world >> use, and the Haskell I like to teach, is 7.8, pre-FTP. >> >> It's not that I'm dead set against change and evolution in a language, or >> even breaking changes. But FTP and beyond are changes that have lost the >> balance that Haskell had between abstraction and clarity, between elaborate >> and practical engineering. I don't see any restraint going forward, so I'm >> getting off the train. >> >> This puts me in an odd position with respect to Haskell Platform: I find >> myself building the Platform for a version of Haskell that I don't use. >> This isn't healthy for either the Platform or me. Hence, I'm resigning as >> release manager. >> >> I am sad because I believed that Haskell's path to much wider adoption >> was within reach. Now, especially with the ramping up of the Haskell Prime >> committee, which seems preordained to codify FTP and beyond into standard, >> we are approaching our Algol 68 moment: Building a major language revision >> with less opportunity than it's predecessor. >> >> I'll still see you 'round at meet-ups and conferences. I'll just be >> coding with an older accent. >> >> - Mark "mzero" Lentczner >> >> >> ___ >> ghc-devs mailing list >> ghc-devs@haskell.org >> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs >> >> > ___ > ghc-devs mailing list > ghc-devs@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs > ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
Re: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
Dear Mark, Thank you for your efforts. You've gave us a lot of opportunity to meet haskell. There are many people on the back side of the firewall. They can't access over the firewall. HP, all-in-one and web downloadable package, is very useful for them. Thanks to you, we were able to enjoy the haskell. Thank you very much, Takenobu 2015-10-13 12:08 GMT+09:00 Mark Lentczner : > I think this is the right time for me to exit: > > The truth is, I still can't bring myself to use a version of Haskell post > the Foldable-Traversable-aPocalypse, let alone some future Haskell after > the changes now in the works. My personal machines are all still 7.8. My > personal projects are all pre-FTP. The Haskell I love to code in, the > Haskell I'm passionate about, the Haskell I've advocated for real world > use, and the Haskell I like to teach, is 7.8, pre-FTP. > > It's not that I'm dead set against change and evolution in a language, or > even breaking changes. But FTP and beyond are changes that have lost the > balance that Haskell had between abstraction and clarity, between elaborate > and practical engineering. I don't see any restraint going forward, so I'm > getting off the train. > > This puts me in an odd position with respect to Haskell Platform: I find > myself building the Platform for a version of Haskell that I don't use. > This isn't healthy for either the Platform or me. Hence, I'm resigning as > release manager. > > I am sad because I believed that Haskell's path to much wider adoption was > within reach. Now, especially with the ramping up of the Haskell Prime > committee, which seems preordained to codify FTP and beyond into standard, > we are approaching our Algol 68 moment: Building a major language revision > with less opportunity than it's predecessor. > > I'll still see you 'round at meet-ups and conferences. I'll just be coding > with an older accent. > > - Mark "mzero" Lentczner > > > ___ > ghc-devs mailing list > ghc-devs@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs > > ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
RE: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
Mark You have given a lot to the Haskell community through your steady leadership of the Haskell Platform, and I want to add my personal thank-you for that. The Haskell community flourishes only because volunteers step up to the (not always comfortable) tasks of developing consensus and then actually getting the job done. You have done this brilliantly – thank you. I know that your concerns reflect those of many. In the olden days when Haskell was a university research language, we could change it whenever we wanted and no one minded. But now it is used for lots of things, and people rightly complain about changes. Moreover, thoughtful and intelligent people differ in their judgement about what is and is not a good change. These are nice problems to have: they reflect a large, passionate, committed community of people who care about the language, its ecosystem, and its users. But of course they are still challenging problems! There is a genuine tension between innovation and change (which make Haskell so dynamic), and dependability and stability (which make it useful). I’m sure we will not always get it right. But it is my earnest hope that by respecting genuine differences of judgement, by being willing to see the world through others’ eyes, by being willing to accept a choice that is not our own – in short, by expressing true respect in our dealings with each other – we will be able to work together on a journey in which none of us knows the True Path. So I’m very sorry to lose you as the driver of the HP train, but do hope you won’t get off the train altogether! With true thanks Simon From: ghc-devs [mailto:ghc-devs-boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Mark Lentczner Sent: 13 October 2015 04:09 To: haskell-platf...@projects.haskell.org; Haskell Libraries; ghc-devs@haskell.org Subject: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform I think this is the right time for me to exit: The truth is, I still can't bring myself to use a version of Haskell post the Foldable-Traversable-aPocalypse, let alone some future Haskell after the changes now in the works. My personal machines are all still 7.8. My personal projects are all pre-FTP. The Haskell I love to code in, the Haskell I'm passionate about, the Haskell I've advocated for real world use, and the Haskell I like to teach, is 7.8, pre-FTP. It's not that I'm dead set against change and evolution in a language, or even breaking changes. But FTP and beyond are changes that have lost the balance that Haskell had between abstraction and clarity, between elaborate and practical engineering. I don't see any restraint going forward, so I'm getting off the train. This puts me in an odd position with respect to Haskell Platform: I find myself building the Platform for a version of Haskell that I don't use. This isn't healthy for either the Platform or me. Hence, I'm resigning as release manager. I am sad because I believed that Haskell's path to much wider adoption was within reach. Now, especially with the ramping up of the Haskell Prime committee, which seems preordained to codify FTP and beyond into standard, we are approaching our Algol 68 moment: Building a major language revision with less opportunity than it's predecessor. I'll still see you 'round at meet-ups and conferences. I'll just be coding with an older accent. - Mark "mzero" Lentczner ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
Re: "Excuse me, I think this i my stop..." - Resigning from the Platform
Thanks Mark for all your work over the years! Haskell has the adoption it does today in no small part because of your work in making sure it has been consistently easy to install over a range of systems. You’ve put many years and long hours into the work you’ve done as release manager, and we all appreciate it. I certainly suspect the applicatipocalypse is less around-the-bend than you perhaps prophesy (sorry, couldn’t resist). But as they say, horses for courses. I look forward to catching up with you at those meetups and conferences. Everyone else: I’m happy to step in for the immediate time being as release manager to bring to completion the minimal-platform-with-cabal-and-stack plans (aka “Improving the Get Haskell Experience” proposal). I’ve already started to do so a very tiny bit, helping with a new OS X release to help with compatibility with El Capitan. I also want to note that lots of contributions lately have been coming courtesy of Randy Polen and Erik Rantapaa in particular, so we have some great resources to build on. Especially medium term and long term more volunteers will be very welcome (I certainly can’t imagine remaining “Mr. Platform” for as many tireless years as Mark has). A fair amount of the work I plan to spend on platform stuff in the immediate future will be to take the good work Mark has done in making easier the platform build and release process and further document it. The end goal should be that, at least for the foreseeable future, the release manager job should become straightforward and demystified enough that passing the baton becomes easier yet. If you have experience with installers in either the Windows or Mac world and would like to get involved (maybe just as a voice of experience and wisdom) please reach out to me and let me know. Alternately, if you have a friend with such experience, and you think you could convince them to lend a hand, perhaps suggest to them that they reach out to me :-P. Also, if you have either a range of boxes (or hardware with images of different flavors of systems) and some time to act as a tester — please reach out as well. A designated team of installer-testers would be a good thing as well. Best, Gershom On October 12, 2015 at 11:09:12 PM, Mark Lentczner (mark.lentcz...@gmail.com) wrote: > I think this is the right time for me to exit: > > The truth is, I still can't bring myself to use a version of Haskell post > the Foldable-Traversable-aPocalypse, let alone some future Haskell after > the changes now in the works. My personal machines are all still 7.8. My > personal projects are all pre-FTP. The Haskell I love to code in, the > Haskell I'm passionate about, the Haskell I've advocated for real world > use, and the Haskell I like to teach, is 7.8, pre-FTP. > > It's not that I'm dead set against change and evolution in a language, or > even breaking changes. But FTP and beyond are changes that have lost the > balance that Haskell had between abstraction and clarity, between elaborate > and practical engineering. I don't see any restraint going forward, so I'm > getting off the train. > > This puts me in an odd position with respect to Haskell Platform: I find > myself building the Platform for a version of Haskell that I don't use. > This isn't healthy for either the Platform or me. Hence, I'm resigning as > release manager. > > I am sad because I believed that Haskell's path to much wider adoption was > within reach. Now, especially with the ramping up of the Haskell Prime > committee, which seems preordained to codify FTP and beyond into standard, > we are approaching our Algol 68 moment: Building a major language revision > with less opportunity than it's predecessor. > > I'll still see you 'round at meet-ups and conferences. I'll just be coding > with an older accent. > > - Mark "mzero" Lentczner > ___ > Libraries mailing list > librar...@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries > ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
