[Gimp-developer] Greetings from Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming before all the GIMP mailing lists shut down
Subject: Greetings from Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming before all the GIMP mailing lists shut down Good day from Singapore, My name is Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming. I am a targeted individual living in Singapore. In my spare time, I am a hobbyist photographer and videographer who likes to add watermarks on my photos and videos. I use GIMP photo editing software occasionally. I am also an IT Consultant with a Systems Integrator (SI)/computer firm in Singapore. I am an IT enthusiast too. Regards, Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming Targeted Individual in Singapore Blogs: https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Hi! On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 3:25 AM Ken Moffat wrote: > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 10:00:24PM +0200, Jehan Pagès via > gimp-developer-list wrote: > > Hi! > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 9:48 PM Rick Strong wrote: > > > > > So if I want to ask a question about using GIMP, or respond to a > question, > > > how do I do it? > > > > > > > Well basically same as you always did, except that now it will be on one > of > > the Discourse instances, such as the pixls.us one or the GNOME one. > Instead > > of being subscribed to a mailing list, it's on Discourse (which is > > basically a modern-time forum, as I see it), on which you'd have a > > login/account. :-) > > > > Jehan > > > > As a linux user, this feels like a retrograde step (there are ways > of running mailing lists without python2, such as sympa, although > they tend to work sub-optimally). But it is outside my, and your, > control so thanks for the forewarning. > > I guess that if I have any questions in the future I'll use > https://discuss.pixls.us in the hope that I might get indications of > how to do something (I'm logged in there on one of my machines, I > get mails every week or so with topics since I last visited - most > of which seem to be about non-interesting *to me* software). > > This might be my last post here, so I'll say thanks to the people > who have helped me on -user over the years, and to the devs who have > made 2.10 what it is - yes, I'd like to use 2.99 but I also want > script-fu and g'mic plugins so I guess I'll be staying on 2.10 for a > while. > Script-fu is still available in 2.99 and nowadays we get a very active contributor for it. So it's even improving. :-) As for G'MIC, it is available for GIMP 2.99 too, though maybe not on all platforms, and it probably "breaks" at nearly every dev release (as we progressively change the API here and there). So there is indeed often a short span of time where it's non-available. Of course, not advising you to use 2.99 either as it's still marked as "unstable" releases (so to be used carefully), but just saying that these 2 points are not hugely broken and there is no doubt to me that they will will be available with GIMP 3.0 (and no API break for a long time then!). :-) Jehan > ĸen > -- > Greater love hath no woman for the premiership than to lay down the > life of her bosom friend in an attempt to save her own skin. > -- Andrew Rawnsley > -- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Hi! On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 4:43 AM Rick Strong wrote: > Gee, Jehan I'm really sorry I was so involved in getting photographs ready > for print tomorrow morning that I overlooked the possibility that YOU might > also be stressed out. I’m going blind in one eye, had a heart attack in > August and I’ve been going for over 12 hours now, but that’s no excuse. You > have my sympathy. [image: Crying face] > Hey no problem don't worry. Neither your email nor the one from the other person were rude or anything. I was just annoyed by the fact they were sent privately and it's true I'm quite tired these days. Anyway thanks for understanding and sorry to read about your health issues. I hope these will get better soon! Jehan > Rick > > > -Original Message- > From: Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 8:29 PM > To: gimp-web-list ; GIMP User List ; gimp-gui-l...@gnome.org ; GIMP Docs > ; gimp-developer ; gegl-developer-list > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to > Discourse > > Hi everyone! > > I received 2 off-list emails. Please do not send me off-list emails. I am > exhausted and cannot do private support in addition to public support, > code development, news writing, website making and everything else in GIMP. > > > This is even more true as I don't really see anything private/sensitive in > the 2 emails I received. Really no need to make them private, except for > making me work double (whereas as public emails, someone else could have > answered). I generally advise contributors to preserve themselves from > overworking by not answering to private messages. > > Anyway, regarding unhappiness about the new platform, I will mainly answer > that there is not much we can do. We are heavily relying on GNOME > Infrastructure (which we thank for this) and they have their own reasons > (one of them is that mailing lists are apparently one of the elements in > their stack which prevent them from dropping Python 2; we can relate!). Cf. > the link in my original email. > > Now we could always try to fight against the current and persuade GNOME > infrastructure team, but we made a small opinion tour among the current > core team and nobody really had particular love or use of our mailing > lists. Also we realize it's very low volume these days (barely a few > threads per month, counting all mailing lists together). Myself I barely > look at mailing lists every once in a while and make a random answer > sometimes. And there were several mailing lists I was not even subscribed > to (I did for the sake of this announcement). So that's probably why none > from the core team is really trying to fight this change. > > There is one more thing to take into consideration: more infrastructure > means more work. I said it above, I am exhausted by this all. I was only > managing one of the mailing lists so far (the gimp-gui one, the most > recent) and still had to regularly handle spams. I am personally thankful > that this work goes to GNOME admins now. Moreover I would not try to find > alternative mailing list providers either. Now, same as hundreds of > third-party forums discuss GIMP out there, people are welcome to create > third-party mailing lists to discuss GIMP if that's really what you are > into. I won't be such a person; and apparently it looks like nobody else > from the core team is so far. > > One last thing: I am aware that Discourse is not perfect. I also spent some > time today to try and understand how to efficiently transform it into a > mailing list equivalent. > > For questions about only receiving emails for the "gimp" tag, I think that > you should not try to use the "Enable mailing list mode" option. Instead > just go to the "gimp" tag page (https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp), > click the bell icon on the top-right and set to "Watching" mode. This way, > you will be notified of absolutely all messages for this tag. Then in your > "Emails" preferences, set "Email me when I am quoted, replied to, my > @username is mentioned, or when there is new activity in my watched > categories, tags or topics" to "always". This should transform every > notification into emails, in other words you will receive an email for > every message added in the "gimp" tag. You can even directly reply to a > notification email from your mail client without going to Discourse. > At least, so far it worked for me (I tried today, and I only received > emails for the 2 messages which came in with the "gimp" tag, no other > emails). So it's probably the right setting. > > Anyway please understand that it's really not about comparing the Discourse > and mailing list technologies. GIMP is not a discussion platform, we only > provide these channels on the side because it's a cool community tool, but > we cannot spend all our time managing these. This is why we need to go with > the flow of what GNOME is proposing (as long as it's not completely wrong; > e.g.
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Gee, Jehan I'm really sorry I was so involved in getting photographs ready for print tomorrow morning that I overlooked the possibility that YOU might also be stressed out. I’m going blind in one eye, had a heart attack in August and I’ve been going for over 12 hours now, but that’s no excuse. You have my sympathy. Rick -Original Message- From: Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 8:29 PM To: gimp-web-list ; GIMP User List ; gimp-gui-l...@gnome.org ; GIMP Docs ; gimp-developer ; gegl-developer-list Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse Hi everyone! I received 2 off-list emails. Please do not send me off-list emails. I am exhausted and cannot do private support in addition to public support, code development, news writing, website making and everything else in GIMP. This is even more true as I don't really see anything private/sensitive in the 2 emails I received. Really no need to make them private, except for making me work double (whereas as public emails, someone else could have answered). I generally advise contributors to preserve themselves from overworking by not answering to private messages. Anyway, regarding unhappiness about the new platform, I will mainly answer that there is not much we can do. We are heavily relying on GNOME Infrastructure (which we thank for this) and they have their own reasons (one of them is that mailing lists are apparently one of the elements in their stack which prevent them from dropping Python 2; we can relate!). Cf. the link in my original email. Now we could always try to fight against the current and persuade GNOME infrastructure team, but we made a small opinion tour among the current core team and nobody really had particular love or use of our mailing lists. Also we realize it's very low volume these days (barely a few threads per month, counting all mailing lists together). Myself I barely look at mailing lists every once in a while and make a random answer sometimes. And there were several mailing lists I was not even subscribed to (I did for the sake of this announcement). So that's probably why none from the core team is really trying to fight this change. There is one more thing to take into consideration: more infrastructure means more work. I said it above, I am exhausted by this all. I was only managing one of the mailing lists so far (the gimp-gui one, the most recent) and still had to regularly handle spams. I am personally thankful that this work goes to GNOME admins now. Moreover I would not try to find alternative mailing list providers either. Now, same as hundreds of third-party forums discuss GIMP out there, people are welcome to create third-party mailing lists to discuss GIMP if that's really what you are into. I won't be such a person; and apparently it looks like nobody else from the core team is so far. One last thing: I am aware that Discourse is not perfect. I also spent some time today to try and understand how to efficiently transform it into a mailing list equivalent. For questions about only receiving emails for the "gimp" tag, I think that you should not try to use the "Enable mailing list mode" option. Instead just go to the "gimp" tag page (https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp), click the bell icon on the top-right and set to "Watching" mode. This way, you will be notified of absolutely all messages for this tag. Then in your "Emails" preferences, set "Email me when I am quoted, replied to, my @username is mentioned, or when there is new activity in my watched categories, tags or topics" to "always". This should transform every notification into emails, in other words you will receive an email for every message added in the "gimp" tag. You can even directly reply to a notification email from your mail client without going to Discourse. At least, so far it worked for me (I tried today, and I only received emails for the 2 messages which came in with the "gimp" tag, no other emails). So it's probably the right setting. Anyway please understand that it's really not about comparing the Discourse and mailing list technologies. GIMP is not a discussion platform, we only provide these channels on the side because it's a cool community tool, but we cannot spend all our time managing these. This is why we need to go with the flow of what GNOME is proposing (as long as it's not completely wrong; e.g. if they had proposed to go for some walled garden proprietary network for the main discussion channels, I would have questioned the choice). I am not into gamification, infinite scrolls or such things either. Us accepting this platform is not about us wanting these. It's really about having a limited core team and nobody highly interested into maintaining complicated infrastructure for a different system than what GNOME does. That's about it. Also for the 2 people who sent private emails, forgive me for not answering directly and privately
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
So if I want to ask a question about using GIMP, or respond to a question, how do I do it? Rick -Original Message- From: Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list Sent: Monday, October 17, 2022 12:38 PM To: gimp-web-list ; gimp-developer ; GIMP User List ; gimp-gui-l...@gnome.org ; gegl-developer-list ; GIMP Docs Subject: [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse Hello everyone! The GNOME Foundation has been moving all its discussions to a Discourse forum, progressively: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html We were informed today that they are on the last stage of this migration and that all the mailing lists will be fully retired by the end of October. This implies also all of GIMP and GEGL mailing lists. Instead, people wishing to discuss about GIMP are expected to use GNOME's Discourse instance. In particular 2 tags were created for us: * "gimp" tag for GIMP-related discussions: https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp * "gegl" tag for GEGL-related discussions: https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gegl We don't have as many tags as we used to have mailing lists, just these 2, but since all our lists are quite low volume these days, I didn't think it was worth asking, at least for now. GNOME admins confirmed that it would not be a problem to add new tags in the future if we ever decided we needed more (e.g. having a "gimp-dev" tag or whatnot). By the way, noteworthy information: GIMP has had already an official presence on pixls.us Discourse: https://discuss.pixls.us/gimp/ We discussed among the team if it was worth having presence on both pixls.us and GNOME discourse and we came to the conclusion that the audience is different, therefore it is interesting to stay on both communities. For discussion with existing GNOME contributors, translators and various GNOME users for instance, they might be already on the GNOME Discourse. On the other hand, pixls.us is a much more specialized forum/community on Photography in particular, and is also probably more platform-independent too. Last but not least, as I expect that some people might prefer interacting by email, I tried to look up what are the possibilities. This thread "Interacting with Discourse via email" is of interest: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/interacting-with-discourse-via-email/46 It didn't have the ability to create new threads easily, especially tagged with the "gimp" keyword. Discourse has a way to create a topic on a specific category but we couldn't find for tags, for instance you can send an email to community @ discourse.gnome.org (note that it doesn't work for every category, e.g. it didn't work for infrastructure; I haven't tested others). With Andrea Veri, GNOME Infrastructure admin, we came up with a special email hook: any email with "[GIMP]" in the subject will be tagged "gimp". Nevertheless you need to have level 1 trust level for this to work. We aren't sure exactly what it means other than having participated enough (whatever "enough" is) to the Discourse first. 路 See: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/gimp-how-to-send-emails-to-discourse-tagged-for-gimp-forum/11535 So I guess, let's continue discussing there everyone! 珞 Jehan GIMP maintainer -- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-l...@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gegl-developer] [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse
Am 18.10.22 um 02:29 schrieb Jehan Pagès via gegl-developer-list: [...] Now we could always try to fight against the current and persuade GNOME infrastructure team, but we made a small opinion tour among the current core team and nobody really had particular love or use of our mailing lists. Also we realize it's very low volume these days (barely a few threads per month, counting all mailing lists together). Myself I barely look at mailing lists every once in a while and make a random answer sometimes. And there were several mailing lists I was not even subscribed to (I did for the sake of this announcement). So that's probably why none from the core team is really trying to fight this change. There is one more thing to take into consideration: more infrastructure means more work. I said it above, I am exhausted by this all. I was only managing one of the mailing lists so far (the gimp-gui one, the most recent) and still had to regularly handle spams. I am personally thankful that this work goes to GNOME admins now. Spam did indeed heavily outweigh the on-topic messages on the other five mailing lists for quite some time - and anyone who's ever maintained a mailman-based mailing list can likely confirm that spam handling there is not as comfortable as doing this in e.g. a capable mail client. -- Regards, Michael ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
