Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ?
Am 18.09.2012 07:05, schrieb Alexandre Prokoudine: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: No. GIGO applies here - GIMP assumes that the state of the image when you hit Save is exactly what you want to be saved to disk, so that's precisely what it does. In cases where it's not (such as with resizing the whole image) GIMP has no way to tell know better. However, a resize-during-export could make an interesting feature request In my experience, exporting with existing samplers needs to be a user-controlled action. It really depends on the kind of image you are resizing. For screenshots, automatic resizing simply produces horribly looking pictures. One of the reasons I run GIMP 2.9 for Git master is because I can access LoHalo sampler which works far better for resizing down than anything else in GIMP 2.8. And even then I need to add a bit of unsharp masking, depending on particular case. i think your example gives a compelling argument to enhance the export functionality a lot further. Not just auto-resize, but instead a complete GEGL side-chain for export! The promise of going non-destructive is that you will be able to correct the misspelling of your customer's name which you missed 50 steps ago. You should not have to manually repeat all those carefully finetuned resample sharpen steps just in order to export the corrected composition. The promise should not end when it comes to exporting. While GIMP can be understood as an XCF editor, XCF is almost never the deliverable. In my understanding the product vision identifies exporting as a primary necessity. The GEGL side-chain concept may work also on the import side: bla.siff - [OP1]-[OP2]-[OP3] - composition - [^OP3]-[^OP2]-[^OP1] - bla_worked.siff The necessary operations to convert a foreign file to a GIMP composition can be expressed as a small GEGL chain/tree. This import chain can be mirrored by a complementary export chain which contains the necessary operations to re-create the imported file. Or a least-surprise approximation of that file. The import and export trees can be saved in the XCF, so that all the steps can be repeated and adjusted as needed. Also no more worries about whether to save the composition before resizing or after. It can be saved anytime, as the resize operation is only part of the export side-chain. UI? For standard artistic usage, the classic pop-up dialog with checkboxes serves the common cases. Under the hood, a GEGL chain performes the flattening and compression etc. This chain is invisibly controlled by such exports dialogs as they are in place right now. For advanced scientific usage, a boxes-and-hoses GEGL side-tree can be tweaked to create just about any nasty structure for a foreign file that anyone may care to create *). Possibly, even the projection concept (as envisioned for CMYK) may be hijacked to carry the GEGL side chain as a kind of export projection. best regards, yahvuu *) for example, a SIFF file containing both layers with alpha and layers without without alpha. Or mixed 1bit/24bit layers with 8bit alpha. Whatever SIFF supports. (The names have been changed to protect the guilty). ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ?
No. GIGO applies here - GIMP assumes that the state of the image when you hit Save is exactly what you want to be saved to disk, so that's precisely what it does. In cases where it's not (such as with resizing the whole image) GIMP has no way to tell know better. However, a resize-during-export could make an interesting feature request -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 08:58:20 -0700 From: w...@ieee.org To: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ? This sounds to me like a bug - possibly a specification error? Certainly adds some possibly useful context to the longlasting (and unfortunately overly acrimonious) dispute about the save-export behavior in 2.8. In my experience, it is extremely difficult to apprehend all the varieties of ways people like to use complex tools, especially in a world environment enamored with the famous Steve Jobs aphorism - things should 'just work' - and adapting - even when necessary - is uncomfortable, and often painful. -- Burnie On 09/16/2012 08:10 AM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: From: l...@holoweb.net To: ofn...@laposte.net Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:23:36 -0400 CC: gimp-user-l...@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ? On Sat, 2012-09-15 at 23:12 +0200, Ofnuts wrote: [...] saving as XCF by accident may make you lose some time, but will never make you lose data, because you can always save the JPG again from the XCF. This isn't always true. For example, after working on a photograph I scale it down e.g. to 600 pixels across, and export a jpeg. If at that point I save the xcf file, I will lose data, because xcf does not store the undo history. Yes, I could use ImageMagick to scale the image, but (1) I do want to see the jpeg preview, as it often needs some extra work in curves or sharpen, and (2) I'm already in gimp :) Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-l...@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list That is unfortunately true, GIMP has no ability to automatically scale-down the image to a different size as part of the export process. When you hit Save GIMP records everything necessary to recreate the image *as it was when you hit Save*, whether it is the preferred way of storing your overall project file or not. The XCF is not a full version repository logging everything that happened to the image since its creation - I imagine that should be the role of an XCF subformat so that the user has per-file control over whether or not they need that extra information taking up extra hard drive space. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-l...@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ?
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: No. GIGO applies here - GIMP assumes that the state of the image when you hit Save is exactly what you want to be saved to disk, so that's precisely what it does. In cases where it's not (such as with resizing the whole image) GIMP has no way to tell know better. However, a resize-during-export could make an interesting feature request In my experience, exporting with existing samplers needs to be a user-controlled action. It really depends on the kind of image you are resizing. For screenshots, automatic resizing simply produces horribly looking pictures. One of the reasons I run GIMP 2.9 for Git master is because I can access LoHalo sampler which works far better for resizing down than anything else in GIMP 2.8. And even then I need to add a bit of unsharp masking, depending on particular case. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ?
This sounds to me like a bug - possibly a specification error? Certainly adds some possibly useful context to the longlasting (and unfortunately overly acrimonious) dispute about the save-export behavior in 2.8. In my experience, it is extremely difficult to apprehend all the varieties of ways people like to use complex tools, especially in a world environment enamored with the famous Steve Jobs aphorism - things should 'just work' - and adapting - even when necessary - is uncomfortable, and often painful. -- Burnie On 09/16/2012 08:10 AM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: From: l...@holoweb.net To: ofn...@laposte.net Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:23:36 -0400 CC: gimp-user-l...@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] [Request] Do not confirm closing if unsaved image was exported/overwrited ? On Sat, 2012-09-15 at 23:12 +0200, Ofnuts wrote: [...] saving as XCF by accident may make you lose some time, but will never make you lose data, because you can always save the JPG again from the XCF. This isn't always true. For example, after working on a photograph I scale it down e.g. to 600 pixels across, and export a jpeg. If at that point I save the xcf file, I will lose data, because xcf does not store the undo history. Yes, I could use ImageMagick to scale the image, but (1) I do want to see the jpeg preview, as it often needs some extra work in curves or sharpen, and (2) I'm already in gimp :) Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-l...@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list That is unfortunately true, GIMP has no ability to automatically scale-down the image to a different size as part of the export process. When you hit Save GIMP records everything necessary to recreate the image *as it was when you hit Save*, whether it is the preferred way of storing your overall project file or not. The XCF is not a full version repository logging everything that happened to the image since its creation - I imagine that should be the role of an XCF subformat so that the user has per-file control over whether or not they need that extra information taking up extra hard drive space. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-l...@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
