Re: [Gimp-user] gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Rick Strong  [10-22-17 17:23]:
> No shaming allowed.
> 
> Rick S.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Patrick Shanahan Sent: Sunday, October 22,
> 2017 4:02 PM To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-user]
> gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18
> 
> ...
> shame on you.

no inconsideration allowed!

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
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Re: [Gimp-user] gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18

[Rick Strong]

No shaming allowed.

Rick S.

-Original Message- 
From: Patrick Shanahan 
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2017 4:02 PM 
To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org 
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18 


...
shame on you.
--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look

[Maurizio Paglia]

Ross, my hair are almost white, I am sorry but you need a bigger effort in
order to discourage me 
Have a nice evening.
Maurizio

Il 22 ott 2017 19:36, "Ross Martinek"  ha scritto:

> Alex,
>
> I said I was an old curmudgeon. ;^] It’s only my opinion, based on my
> experience, not wisdom from on high, and while strongly held, I’ve no
> objection to being shown I’m in error, or that my conclusions aren’t
> supported by your or others’ data (as you did.)
>
> If you are talking about my comments on documentation, I really do
> identify and sympathize with those creating this delightful tool: writing
> documentation of something one understands thoroughly is very difficult, in
> part because of the very expertise needed to do so. It often feels as if
> one is stating the blatantly obvious, over and over again. I have all too
> much experience with that, and the other frustrations inherent in the
> process.
>
> I did not intend to denigrate the free, online documentation that exists,
> only to say that it could be better. If developers are going to work on
> something besides development, I think that is a better use of time. By
> comparison with other, similar, open source programs, GIMP’s  is better
> than many, if not most. It gets one off to a good start.
>
> I hesitated to mention a commercial product which actually does a good job
> of documentation. I have found The Book of GIMP, by LeCarme and Delvare to
> be an invaluable resource in learning GIMP. It’s expensive, but the
> software is free, and the book costs far less than most graphics programs
> (or at least it did when I bought it.) (Shameless plug, and no, I don’t get
> anything for it.)
>
> As for marketing, if that is a concern, the way Literature and Latte
> markets their products might be worth a look. Scrivener, their writing app,
> is phenomenal. It isn’t free, like GIMP, but it is very affordable. Would I
> pay the price of Scrivener for GIMP? As my physics prof was fond of saying,
> “That’s not only obvious, it’s an obvious, obvious.”
>
> And Maurizio, I also appreciate your enthusiasm. I just think it’s
> slightly misplaced. Don’t let my stentorian objections discourage you.
>
> Ross
>
>
> > On Oct 22, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
> alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Ross Martinek wrote:
> >
> >> While there may be some PS features
> >> not available (yet?) in GIMP, the only advantage of PS I see is its
> >> documentation.
> >
> > Ross, I appreciate your loyalty to the project, but you aren't making
> > any friends right now :)))
> >
> > Alex
> > ___
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> > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>
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Re: [Gimp-user] gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Nicholas Carrington  [10-22-17 15:33]:

> I agree with improving functionality. We do we meed to do to bring up
> developement to the level of Blender 3D?  Gimp needs a unified transform
> tool.  Focus should better image handeling and faster tool based methods
> for artist.
> 
> Get Outlook for Android
> 
> 
> From: gimp-user-list  on behalf of 
> gimp-user-list-requ...@gnome.org 
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2017 12:07:06 AM
> To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> Subject: gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18
> 
> Send gimp-user-list mailing list submissions to
> gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> 
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of gimp-user-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Rick Strong)
>2. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Maurizio Paglia)
>3. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look
>   (Alexandre Prokoudine)
>4. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Rick Strong)
>5. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Ross Martinek)

and perhaps, for someone to post an answer to one message within a digest,
and post the entire digest with it.

shame on you.
-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look

[Ross Martinek]

Alex,

I said I was an old curmudgeon. ;^] It’s only my opinion, based on my 
experience, not wisdom from on high, and while strongly held, I’ve no objection 
to being shown I’m in error, or that my conclusions aren’t supported by your or 
others’ data (as you did.)

If you are talking about my comments on documentation, I really do identify and 
sympathize with those creating this delightful tool: writing documentation of 
something one understands thoroughly is very difficult, in part because of the 
very expertise needed to do so. It often feels as if one is stating the 
blatantly obvious, over and over again. I have all too much experience with 
that, and the other frustrations inherent in the process.

I did not intend to denigrate the free, online documentation that exists, only 
to say that it could be better. If developers are going to work on something 
besides development, I think that is a better use of time. By comparison with 
other, similar, open source programs, GIMP’s  is better than many, if not most. 
It gets one off to a good start.

I hesitated to mention a commercial product which actually does a good job of 
documentation. I have found The Book of GIMP, by LeCarme and Delvare to be an 
invaluable resource in learning GIMP. It’s expensive, but the software is free, 
and the book costs far less than most graphics programs (or at least it did 
when I bought it.) (Shameless plug, and no, I don’t get anything for it.)

As for marketing, if that is a concern, the way Literature and Latte markets 
their products might be worth a look. Scrivener, their writing app, is 
phenomenal. It isn’t free, like GIMP, but it is very affordable. Would I pay 
the price of Scrivener for GIMP? As my physics prof was fond of saying, “That’s 
not only obvious, it’s an obvious, obvious.”

And Maurizio, I also appreciate your enthusiasm. I just think it’s slightly 
misplaced. Don’t let my stentorian objections discourage you.

Ross


> On Oct 22, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Ross Martinek wrote:
> 
>> While there may be some PS features
>> not available (yet?) in GIMP, the only advantage of PS I see is its
>> documentation.
> 
> Ross, I appreciate your loyalty to the project, but you aren't making
> any friends right now :)))
> 
> Alex
> ___
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ross Martinek wrote:

> I disagree completely. I am a “normal” user, and I do not think GIMP
> is dead. Quite the contrary. Adobe Photoshop is dead to the normal,
> or average, user. The only people using PS are either corporately
> supported or students—no one else can afford it.

"No one else" as in "lots and lots of freelancers who make their
living from illustration, design, digital photography etc."?

 > Where are the “have nots” going? To GIMP.

There are multiple options. GIMP is just one of them.

Affinity Photo is quickly gaining a dedicated user base for photo
manipulation. Black Ink, Krita and others are becoming popular options
for digital painting. And the list goes on.

> I know several successful artists who have abandoned PS for GIMP,
> and I’m aware of many more. I did two lectures on a particular aspect
> of fantasy art last March. Of those attending, two used PS because
> their employers paid for it. Of the rest, about five used GIMP. Everyone
> else wanted to know where to get it, and one PS user said he was going
> to recommend it to his employer.

Glad to hear that. Still a very small sampling.

> I get the distinct impression from what you say and how you say it that
> you work in marketing.

Well, I'm not Maurizio, but I do work in marketing, and my role with
GIMP could be qualified as PR. So I'm guessing that's
double-propaganda in your book.

> You can’t “tell the whole world,” but you can tell everyone you know, even
> if they don’t use such software. Someone they know might lament the state
> (EXPENSE) of Adobe and PS, at which point your non-artistic acquaintance
> says “Have you tried GIMP? Its free and  loves it!”
> Been there, done that. Have yet to hear anyone say, “Nah, I’ll stick with
> Photoshop.”

Your experience, if it's true, is different from lots and lots (and
lots) of cases I personally witnessed.

Alex
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