Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Shlomi Fish]

On Tue, 25 May 2021 17:14:45 -0400
Liam R E Quin  wrote:

> On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 16:57 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > 
> > it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner
> > to
> > depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
> > discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
> > consider it so.
> >   
> 
> Pease don't try telling people that they don't find something
> unpleasant.  The term is used as an insult in some regions.  Calling
> people names (narrow-minded) for being offended merely adds insult to
> an injury.
> 
> There do seem to be cultural and linguistic differences in the
> relationship between people and symbols.  The role of tone of voice
> differs between cultures too.
> 

Hi!

I think people should encourage criticism and learn how to grow a thicker skin
and to handle crit:
http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Encourage_criticism_and_try_to_get_offended/
. yes, even women can and should. i took some insults to my advantage:

* https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/#rindolf_the_evil_reindeer

* https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/the-eternal-jew/#reception

* https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/nicknames.xhtml


> 
> 
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-- 

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Robert T. Short]

I too walk with a hitch in my getalong.  I am also a native English 
(American) speaker and I do not find the name of the program offensive.


On 5/25/21 3:06 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:

I am sick of lunatics calling the shots

It is time for a revolt against insanity.

I am a GIMP and have been one for my hwole life and find the use of the
term GIMP to be uplifting and to give all us GIMPS the utmost honor to
be associated with such an esteamed project.


Furthermore, the Code of Conduct is BS and should be removed from the
Gnome Project.



On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:26:41PM +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:

În data de Tue, 25 May 2021 11:19:43 -0700, Michael Richards via gimp-user-list 
a scris:


I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.

I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.

[...]

In what language stands the name as discrimination ? In my language (Romanian) the word 
"gimp" has no meaning whatsoever. The only possible association is with the GNU 
Image Manipulation Program – and this only for those who work with it or at least ever 
heard about it.

I wonder if in Italian or French or German etc. languages this word has any 
meaning except for the GIMP program.

Cristi

--
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https://www.secarica.ro
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

I am sick of lunatics calling the shots

It is time for a revolt against insanity.

I am a GIMP and have been one for my hwole life and find the use of the
term GIMP to be uplifting and to give all us GIMPS the utmost honor to
be associated with such an esteamed project.


Furthermore, the Code of Conduct is BS and should be removed from the
Gnome Project.



On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:26:41PM +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> În data de Tue, 25 May 2021 11:19:43 -0700, Michael Richards via 
> gimp-user-list a scris:
> 
> > 
> > I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> > violates the GNOME Code of Conduct. 
> > 
> > I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
> > unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
> > 
> > [...]
> 
> In what language stands the name as discrimination ? In my language 
> (Romanian) the word "gimp" has no meaning whatsoever. The only possible 
> association is with the GNU Image Manipulation Program – and this only for 
> those who work with it or at least ever heard about it.
> 
> I wonder if in Italian or French or German etc. languages this word has any 
> meaning except for the GIMP program.
> 
> Cristi
> 
> -- 
> Cristian Secară
> https://www.secarica.ro
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Cliff Pratt via gimp-user-list]

FWIW There are distasteful meanings of the word Glimpse, too.

Cheers,

Cliff

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:15 AM Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-user-list <
gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Dear Michael,
>
> If I were to summarize our conversation with GNOME Foundation a few
> months back, it would be this: GIMP has neither boss nor master, so
> should the name of this project be changed, it will happen on team's
> own terms — the decision, the timing, the name etc.
>
> However, if your patience is running out, I encourage you to use
> https://glimpse-editor.org/ which specifically addresses your
> concerns.
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:19 PM Michael Richards via gimp-user-list
>  wrote:
> >
> > Dear Gnome and Gnu Image Manipulation Program community,
> >
> > I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.
> >
> > I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
> unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
> >
> > I want to be able to this software but I don’t feel morally able to
> because of the name.
> >
> > I know this is under the FAQ - and that perhaps makes it even more of a
> worthy conversation to revisit... because if you’re talking frequently
> asked then these concerns are not just mine.
> >
> > I am a person with multiple disabilities. I, and others like me, face
> many barriers, structural violence, and overt discrimination. All this
> together creates great suffering for many.
> >
> > The response I read in FAQ about changing this software’s name is not
> sufficient.
> >
> >
> https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it
> >
> > I don’t think that this is intentional but it comes out of ignorance and
> doesn’t reflect what I see as the spirit of the FOSS community.
> >
> > It essentially says, ‘we came up with a name we knew (or came to know)
> was offensive 20+ years ago and we refuse to change or evolve.’ Moreover,
> it is typical of the attitude towards people with disabilities as a
> marginalized group - it says, ‘Your pain and suffering are not important.
> Our branding is more important.’
> >
> > This is in violation of the Gnome.org Code of Conduct.
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/CodeOfConduct
> >
> > Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist language or otherwise
> exclusionary language. This includes deliberately referring to someone by a
> gender that they do not identify with, and/or questioning the legitimacy of
> an individual's gender identity. If you're unsure if a word is derogatory,
> don't use it. This also includes repeated subtle and/or indirect
> discrimination.
> > Think of how quickly this software’s name would change if the name was a
> derogatory term for another marginalized group. Terms I will not use even
> for example because they are generally considered so offensive. The name of
> this software is just as offensive.
> >
> > So, in the spirit of inclusion and doing no harm - I formally request
> that the name be changed. It’s 2021, the world is hurting, we need to work
> together.
> >
> > I am not asking this because I don’t want to support this software and
> the community that uses it and develops it. I requesting this because I
> want to support it.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Michael Richards, BSc, (he/him)
> > Victoria BC, Canada
> > ___
> > gimp-user-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
> ___
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>


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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Liam R E Quin]

On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 16:57 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> 
> it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner
> to
> depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
> discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
> consider it so.
> 

Pease don't try telling people that they don't find something
unpleasant.  The term is used as an insult in some regions.  Calling
people names (narrow-minded) for being offended merely adds insult to
an injury.

There do seem to be cultural and linguistic differences in the
relationship between people and symbols.  The role of tone of voice
differs between cultures too.



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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Liam R E Quin  [05-25-21 16:50]:
> On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 23:26 +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> > 
> > In what language stands the name as discrimination ?
> 
> English.

it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner to
depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
consider it so.

anyone can find *anything* distasteful, even hairs in their soup.


-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Liam R E Quin]

On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 23:26 +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> 
> In what language stands the name as discrimination ?

English.


-- 
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IRC chat - ankh or demib0y


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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Cristian Secară]

În data de Tue, 25 May 2021 11:19:43 -0700, Michael Richards via gimp-user-list 
a scris:

> 
> I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct. 
> 
> I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
> unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
> 
> [...]

In what language stands the name as discrimination ? In my language (Romanian) 
the word "gimp" has no meaning whatsoever. The only possible association is 
with the GNU Image Manipulation Program – and this only for those who work with 
it or at least ever heard about it.

I wonder if in Italian or French or German etc. languages this word has any 
meaning except for the GIMP program.

Cristi

-- 
Cristian Secară
https://www.secarica.ro
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-user-list]

Dear Michael,

If I were to summarize our conversation with GNOME Foundation a few
months back, it would be this: GIMP has neither boss nor master, so
should the name of this project be changed, it will happen on team's
own terms — the decision, the timing, the name etc.

However, if your patience is running out, I encourage you to use
https://glimpse-editor.org/ which specifically addresses your
concerns.

Alex


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:19 PM Michael Richards via gimp-user-list
 wrote:
>
> Dear Gnome and Gnu Image Manipulation Program community,
>
> I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it 
> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.
>
> I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against 
> unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
>
> I want to be able to this software but I don’t feel morally able to because 
> of the name.
>
> I know this is under the FAQ - and that perhaps makes it even more of a 
> worthy conversation to revisit... because if you’re talking frequently asked 
> then these concerns are not just mine.
>
> I am a person with multiple disabilities. I, and others like me, face many 
> barriers, structural violence, and overt discrimination. All this together 
> creates great suffering for many.
>
> The response I read in FAQ about changing this software’s name is not 
> sufficient.
>
> https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it
>
> I don’t think that this is intentional but it comes out of ignorance and 
> doesn’t reflect what I see as the spirit of the FOSS community.
>
> It essentially says, ‘we came up with a name we knew (or came to know) was 
> offensive 20+ years ago and we refuse to change or evolve.’ Moreover, it is 
> typical of the attitude towards people with disabilities as a marginalized 
> group - it says, ‘Your pain and suffering are not important. Our branding is 
> more important.’
>
> This is in violation of the Gnome.org Code of Conduct. 
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/CodeOfConduct
>
> Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist language or otherwise 
> exclusionary language. This includes deliberately referring to someone by a 
> gender that they do not identify with, and/or questioning the legitimacy of 
> an individual's gender identity. If you're unsure if a word is derogatory, 
> don't use it. This also includes repeated subtle and/or indirect 
> discrimination.
> Think of how quickly this software’s name would change if the name was a 
> derogatory term for another marginalized group. Terms I will not use even for 
> example because they are generally considered so offensive. The name of this 
> software is just as offensive.
>
> So, in the spirit of inclusion and doing no harm - I formally request that 
> the name be changed. It’s 2021, the world is hurting, we need to work 
> together.
>
> I am not asking this because I don’t want to support this software and the 
> community that uses it and develops it. I requesting this because I want to 
> support it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Richards, BSc, (he/him)
> Victoria BC, Canada
> ___
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
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[Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Michael Richards via gimp-user-list]

Dear Gnome and Gnu Image Manipulation Program community,

I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it violates 
the GNOME Code of Conduct. 

I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against unintentional 
- but no less harmful - discrimination.

I want to be able to this software but I don’t feel morally able to because of 
the name.

I know this is under the FAQ - and that perhaps makes it even more of a worthy 
conversation to revisit... because if you’re talking frequently asked then 
these concerns are not just mine.

I am a person with multiple disabilities. I, and others like me, face many 
barriers, structural violence, and overt discrimination. All this together 
creates great suffering for many.

The response I read in FAQ about changing this software’s name is not 
sufficient.

https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it

I don’t think that this is intentional but it comes out of ignorance and 
doesn’t reflect what I see as the spirit of the FOSS community.

It essentially says, ‘we came up with a name we knew (or came to know) was 
offensive 20+ years ago and we refuse to change or evolve.’ Moreover, it is 
typical of the attitude towards people with disabilities as a marginalized 
group - it says, ‘Your pain and suffering are not important. Our branding is 
more important.’

This is in violation of the Gnome.org Code of Conduct. 
https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/CodeOfConduct

Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist language or otherwise 
exclusionary language. This includes deliberately referring to someone by a 
gender that they do not identify with, and/or questioning the legitimacy of an 
individual's gender identity. If you're unsure if a word is derogatory, don't 
use it. This also includes repeated subtle and/or indirect discrimination.
Think of how quickly this software’s name would change if the name was a 
derogatory term for another marginalized group. Terms I will not use even for 
example because they are generally considered so offensive. The name of this 
software is just as offensive.

So, in the spirit of inclusion and doing no harm - I formally request that the 
name be changed. It’s 2021, the world is hurting, we need to work together.

I am not asking this because I don’t want to support this software and the 
community that uses it and develops it. I requesting this because I want to 
support it.

Sincerely, 

Michael Richards, BSc, (he/him)
Victoria BC, Canada
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Re: [Gimp-user] Help

[Jernej Simončič]

On Sunday, May 23, 2021, 13:06:28, Roberta Kerr via gimp-user-list wrote:

> I'm sorry, I'm an old lady and I'm having problems downloading your
> program. I have about 2500 old bad photos of family tombstones. Your
> program and a lot of hard work might make an impossible task manageable.
> I'm running vista. I can't download utorrent client to open your program.
> It says it runs vista but keeps kicking me out. I've updated my drivers.
> And spent lots of money on it. Is there any other way? I've tried a few
> other client apps and they don't work either. Any help would be
> appreciated. Thanks, skipidra...@gmail.com

Current GIMP version doesn't run on Vista any more – the last one to run on 
Vista was 2.8.22, which you can download from here: 


-- 
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< https://eternallybored.org/ >

A pat on the back is only a few centimeters from a kick in the pants.
   -- Wilcox's Law

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[Gimp-user] Help

[Roberta Kerr via gimp-user-list]

I'm sorry, I'm an old lady and I'm having problems downloading your
program. I have about 2500 old bad photos of family tombstones. Your
program and a lot of hard work might make an impossible task manageable.
I'm running vista. I can't download utorrent client to open your program.
It says it runs vista but keeps kicking me out. I've updated my drivers.
And spent lots of money on it. Is there any other way? I've tried a few
other client apps and they don't work either. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks, skipidra...@gmail.com
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