Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[SDA via gimp-user-list]

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 08:05:15PM -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
 
> 
> Please do not purport to speak for me as I am perfectly happy with the
> current name and have been so for many years now.
> 
> I vote for no name change

Me neither - This cancel culture is becoming reiduclous. Don't people in Gnome 
think their name is offensive to the same 
political correctness? Geesus, the world has mor important problems than 
worrying about NeoLiberal US policies being 
forced down our throat. The world has varying ideas and concepts, not 
everything is a 1st world problem!

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Dave Stevens]

On Fri, 28 May 2021 13:30:25 -0500
Ross Martinek  wrote:

> Limpingly,
> 
> Ross

+1
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ross Martinek]

Yes, I found the OP highly offensive—and I have disabilities. But GIMP is an 
acronym, pronounced and written “gimp.” That word, like so many others, is only 
offensive if INTENDED as such. “Smile when you say that!" The name of the 
program cannot be so intended, ergo no offense applies, or is even implied. If 
the program was an application for the use of those with physical disabilities, 
then, perhaps the OP would have a valid complaint. He, she, it, they, whatever, 
does not. The behavior was, indeed, passive aggressive—it was innuendo and 
contained an implied threat. Such behavior is entirely uncalled for.

Besides, referring to the program as “Gimp,” is entirely appropriate: It may 
limp along, at times and in some respects, but it keeps improving and manages 
to get the job done—just like some of us who refuse to let our disabilities get 
the better of us, and are not afraid or discouraged by calling them what they, 
and we, are.

Limpingly,

Ross


> On May 28, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-user-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 6:55 PM Ruben Safir  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Federico - as chairperson of the CoC Committee, and Board member.
>> 
>> Kill the secret communist style party organ to judge social credit
>> scores.
> 
> I guess I have to post a reminder after all.
> 
> https://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html
> 
> "Code of Conduct
> 
> Mailing lists are an important communication channel between
> contributors and users of GIMP. Therefore we urge you to follow the
> following common etiquette rules. Failure to observe them, or
> instructions from the moderators, may be grounds for reprimand,
> probation, or removal.
> 
> 1. Be considerate and respectful. Every email in our most popular
> mailing lists, gimp-user@ and gimp-developer@, will be read by ca.
> 1,000 subscribers and then aggregated to be seen by an even larger
> audience. Please make sure that you add value to the discussion, avoid
> repetitive arguments, flamewars, trolling, and personal attacks."
> 
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Joseph A Nagy Jr via gimp-user-list]

Ruben Safir wrote:

you. Nobody really disputes that GIMP is a "harmless" word to the
majority of the worlds population. But "majority" is not necessarily the
relevant metrics here.




Actually it is.

There is also the political aspect of not caving into newspeak despots


This, so much this.

--
Sincerely,



Joseph A. Nagy, Jr.
Need a website? Go with the pros:
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Dave Stevens]

On Fri, 28 May 2021 13:41:56 -0400
Ruben Safir  wrote:

> Anyone who is in favor of codes of conduct are real threat to all of
> free software.
> 
> 

really Ruben I think you should stop this. My objection to the OP's
concern was that it is a distraction from what is clearly intended to
be a technical support list. I have the same objection to your threat
characterizations. There are good places to discuss your concerns but
it isn't here.

Dave
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Joseph A Nagy Jr via gimp-user-list]

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Michael Richards via gimp-user-list  [05-27-21 
19:34]:

Thank you Frederico,

I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list for now but am 
open to speaking with the maintainers of Gnu Image Manipulation Program, the 
CoC, and/or the board of directors if any or all of those groups wish.

My intention is not to cause trouble for anyone but to help make open source 
software more welcoming to, and safe for, everyone.

My thanks to you, the other members of the CoC, and the Gnome Foundation board 
of Directors addressing this request.

Sincerely,

Mike

Michael Richards, BSc (he/his)
Victoria BC, Canada



On May 27, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Federico Mena Quintero  wrote:

On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 11:19 -0700, Michael Richards via code-of-
conduct-committee wrote:

I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.


Hi, Michael, thanks for your report.

The CoC committee is aware of this problem, and the GNOME Foundation's



Please do not purport to speak for me as I am perfectly happy with the
current name and have been so for many years now.

I vote for no name change.



I too am happy with the current name. I've never had any issues with it 
for the decades I've been using it.


--
Sincerely,



Joseph A. Nagy, Jr.
Need a website? Go with the pros:
http://www.bluehost.com/track/janagyjr
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

Anyone who is in favor of codes of conduct are real threat to all of
free software.


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive 
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com 

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, 
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

On 5/28/21 12:04 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> Kill the secret communist style party organ to judge social credit
> scores.

Kill the secret communist style party organ to judge social credit
scores.


It needs to die.  There is no justiification to chill speech and to have
tribuanals.

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-user-list]

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 6:55 PM Ruben Safir  wrote:
> >
> >   Federico - as chairperson of the CoC Committee, and Board member.
>
> Kill the secret communist style party organ to judge social credit
> scores.

I guess I have to post a reminder after all.

https://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html

"Code of Conduct

Mailing lists are an important communication channel between
contributors and users of GIMP. Therefore we urge you to follow the
following common etiquette rules. Failure to observe them, or
instructions from the moderators, may be grounds for reprimand,
probation, or removal.

1. Be considerate and respectful. Every email in our most popular
mailing lists, gimp-user@ and gimp-developer@, will be read by ca.
1,000 subscribers and then aggregated to be seen by an even larger
audience. Please make sure that you add value to the discussion, avoid
repetitive arguments, flamewars, trolling, and personal attacks."

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 04:48:21PM -0400, Liam R E Quin wrote:
> On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 23:26 +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> > 
> > In what language stands the name as discrimination ?
> 
> English.
> 


Not English

> 
> -- 
> Liam Quin - https://www.fromoldbooks.org/
> 
> IRC chat - ankh or demib0y
> 
> 
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-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive 
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com 

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, 
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

> 
>   Federico - as chairperson of the CoC Committee, and Board member.
> 


Kill the secret communist style party organ to judge social credit
scores.

It is disgusting

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-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive 
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com 

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, 
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

> you. Nobody really disputes that GIMP is a "harmless" word to the
> majority of the worlds population. But "majority" is not necessarily the
> relevant metrics here.
> 


Actually it is.  

There is also the political aspect of not caving into newspeak despots

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 04:24:11PM -0700, Michael Richards via gimp-user-list 
wrote:
> Thank you Frederico,
> 
> I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list 

Fly by night left wing totaletarian BS.


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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 28 May 2021 05:54:39 Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list wrote:

> What does Michael Richards do?
>
No clue, I don't care enough to look up a BSc. But I have a certificate 
card in my billfold and an 8x10 on the wall thats probably 1000x rarer, 
I am a CET. Its got me every job I have applied for since I passed that 
test in 1972.

And none of that is in any way germaine to this. gimp was I beleave, part 
of the first Linux install I made in 1998 or 99. RH5.0. Its come a long 
ways since, but IMO, renameing it would be a travesty.

Such PC people will be the end of us yet. 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, in 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Michael Schumacher via gimp-user-list]

On 5/28/21 2:31 PM, Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list wrote:

> *

Please stop this kind of implied ad-hominem attack. Thank you.


--
Regards,
Michael
GPG: 96A8 B38A 728A 577D 724D 60E5 F855 53EC B36D 4CDD
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list]

Does he have standing?
Does he have experience?
Does he have a better suggested name, title, acronym or abbreviation
for the software (no)
Is he an actor??
Does he - I don't suggest he does - make a habit of demanding changes
without contributing to making changes, or the things he changes?

GIMP isn't a word, it is an acronym.
Gimp or gimp is, although it doesn't seem to appear in the project's
official materials.

There are, I'll remark again, more things than there are words.

Adrian Midgley   http://defoam.net/  http://defoam.net/photo.defoam.net/

On Fri, 28 May 2021 at 12:04, Simon Budig  wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list (gimp-user-list@gnome.org) wrote:
> > What does Michael Richards do?
>
> Please stop this kind of implied ad-hominem attack. Thank you.
>
> And to all others: Thanks for your input. Seems the name discussion
> rears its head again.
>
> It is not necessary to explain that the term GIMP is not offensive to
> you. Nobody really disputes that GIMP is a "harmless" word to the
> majority of the worlds population. But "majority" is not necessarily the
> relevant metrics here.
>
> And that "whataboutism" regarding other software projects with possibly
> problematic names is not really helping, since there is nothing to learn
> from that.
>
> Also nobody really disputes that the original naming of the project is
> influenced by the pulp fiction movie and also in knowledge of the
> derogatory use. And while I was not aware of that issue until a few
> years after getting involved I certainly can understand the thinking
> that likely happened with the naming, as in "hah-hah-funny" as well
> as preferring to undersell and demeaning your own project instead of
> overhyping.
>
> Personally I appreciate the feedback from people who might be the target
> of the derogatory term. These are the most relevant people in this
> discussion. But then we do have a self-selecting bias on this
> mailinglist, since the people offended by the term are less likely to
> participate here.
>
> This is a knotty discussion, because on the other hand we *do* have a
> huge brand recognition with our name and renaming the project certainly
> will have an effect on me (as a non-native english speaker and als not
> in the "target group" of the derogatory term) and my 24-year-connection
> with the project. I am very much emotionally attached to that name.
>
> There are tons of technical implications with a renaming and I
> personally believe they are prohibitive. Even if we were to rename
> (unlikely) we'd still have to keep our hands on the term GIMP, if only
> to protect our users from scammers trying to step in the then empty
> shoes.
>
> From past discussions with other team members I know that we're quite
> unlikely to change then name, but we *are* willing to work on the issue
> by other means. We're willing (and have done so in the past) to reduce
> the appearance of the acronym and put more emphasis on the fully written
> name of the Gnu Image Manipulation Program, although it is really hard
> to not just type the acronym  :)
>
> We're willing to engage with other groups in projects that might
> help reducing the stigma of disabilities and if we somehow would be able
> to use the power of our brand to help reducing the impact of the
> derogatory term I firmly believe we'll gladly do that.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon
>
> PS: Just to clarify: While I am fairly confident that I have an idea
> about what the other team members think on that issue I do not speak on
> their behalf. All of the above are my own opinions, this is not an
> official statement.
>
> --
>   si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list  [05-28-21 05:57]:
> What does Michael Richards do?
> 
> On Fri, 28 May 2021, 08:21 Gene Heskett,  wrote:
> 
> > On Friday 28 May 2021 00:35:20 Bob Long wrote:
> >
> > > Michael Richards via gimp-user-list wrote on 28/5/21 9:24 am:
> > > > Thank you Frederico,
> > > >
> > > > I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list for
> > > > now but am open to speaking with the maintainers of Gnu Image
> > > > Manipulation Program, the CoC, and/or the board of directors if any
> > > > or all of those groups wish.
> > > >
> > > > My intention is not to cause trouble for anyone but to help make
> > > > open source software more welcoming to, and safe for, everyone.
> > > >
> > > > My thanks to you, the other members of the CoC, and the Gnome
> > > > Foundation board of Directors addressing this request.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Michael Richards, BSc (he/his)
> > > > Victoria BC, Canada
> > >
> > > Given that Michael says he has removed himself from the list he may
> > > not see this. But I do not support a name change.
> >
> > Neither do I. Graphics Image Modification Program, aka gimp, is just
> > fine. At 86, theres a bit of a hitch in my gitalong too, in fact I'm up
> > in the middle of the night working some Theraworx into a leg cramp.  I'm
> > also a 30 year DM-II, so I'm obviously thin skinned and covered in
> > bruises because I am still active, but not thin enough the name bothers
> > me. To anyone who is bothered, grow some skin.
> >
> > > And may I point out that Michael's signature line, "Michael Richards,
> > > BSc (he/his)" may offend some people (but not me)?
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett

complains about acronyms which he feels are derogatory in reguard to his
choosen live styles, apparently.


-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Simon Budig]

Hi all.

Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list (gimp-user-list@gnome.org) wrote:
> What does Michael Richards do?

Please stop this kind of implied ad-hominem attack. Thank you.

And to all others: Thanks for your input. Seems the name discussion
rears its head again.

It is not necessary to explain that the term GIMP is not offensive to
you. Nobody really disputes that GIMP is a "harmless" word to the
majority of the worlds population. But "majority" is not necessarily the
relevant metrics here.

And that "whataboutism" regarding other software projects with possibly
problematic names is not really helping, since there is nothing to learn
from that.

Also nobody really disputes that the original naming of the project is
influenced by the pulp fiction movie and also in knowledge of the
derogatory use. And while I was not aware of that issue until a few
years after getting involved I certainly can understand the thinking
that likely happened with the naming, as in "hah-hah-funny" as well
as preferring to undersell and demeaning your own project instead of
overhyping.

Personally I appreciate the feedback from people who might be the target
of the derogatory term. These are the most relevant people in this
discussion. But then we do have a self-selecting bias on this
mailinglist, since the people offended by the term are less likely to
participate here.

This is a knotty discussion, because on the other hand we *do* have a
huge brand recognition with our name and renaming the project certainly
will have an effect on me (as a non-native english speaker and als not
in the "target group" of the derogatory term) and my 24-year-connection
with the project. I am very much emotionally attached to that name.

There are tons of technical implications with a renaming and I
personally believe they are prohibitive. Even if we were to rename
(unlikely) we'd still have to keep our hands on the term GIMP, if only
to protect our users from scammers trying to step in the then empty
shoes.

>From past discussions with other team members I know that we're quite
unlikely to change then name, but we *are* willing to work on the issue
by other means. We're willing (and have done so in the past) to reduce
the appearance of the acronym and put more emphasis on the fully written
name of the Gnu Image Manipulation Program, although it is really hard
to not just type the acronym  :)

We're willing to engage with other groups in projects that might
help reducing the stigma of disabilities and if we somehow would be able
to use the power of our brand to help reducing the impact of the
derogatory term I firmly believe we'll gladly do that.

Thanks,
Simon

PS: Just to clarify: While I am fairly confident that I have an idea
about what the other team members think on that issue I do not speak on
their behalf. All of the above are my own opinions, this is not an
official statement.

-- 
  si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list]

What does Michael Richards do?

On Fri, 28 May 2021, 08:21 Gene Heskett,  wrote:

> On Friday 28 May 2021 00:35:20 Bob Long wrote:
>
> > Michael Richards via gimp-user-list wrote on 28/5/21 9:24 am:
> > > Thank you Frederico,
> > >
> > > I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list for
> > > now but am open to speaking with the maintainers of Gnu Image
> > > Manipulation Program, the CoC, and/or the board of directors if any
> > > or all of those groups wish.
> > >
> > > My intention is not to cause trouble for anyone but to help make
> > > open source software more welcoming to, and safe for, everyone.
> > >
> > > My thanks to you, the other members of the CoC, and the Gnome
> > > Foundation board of Directors addressing this request.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Michael Richards, BSc (he/his)
> > > Victoria BC, Canada
> >
> > Given that Michael says he has removed himself from the list he may
> > not see this. But I do not support a name change.
>
> Neither do I. Graphics Image Modification Program, aka gimp, is just
> fine. At 86, theres a bit of a hitch in my gitalong too, in fact I'm up
> in the middle of the night working some Theraworx into a leg cramp.  I'm
> also a 30 year DM-II, so I'm obviously thin skinned and covered in
> bruises because I am still active, but not thin enough the name bothers
> me. To anyone who is bothered, grow some skin.
>
> > And may I point out that Michael's signature line, "Michael Richards,
> > BSc (he/his)" may offend some people (but not me)?
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> ___
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Marco Ciampa via gimp-user-list]

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:26:41PM +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> În data de Tue, 25 May 2021 11:19:43 -0700, Michael Richards via 
> gimp-user-list a scris:
> 
> > 
> > I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> > violates the GNOME Code of Conduct. 
> > 
> > I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
> > unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
> > 
> > [...]
> 
> In what language stands the name as discrimination ? In my language 
> (Romanian) the word "gimp" has no meaning whatsoever. The only possible 
> association is with the GNU Image Manipulation Program – and this only for 
> those who work with it or at least ever heard about it.
> 
> I wonder if in Italian or French or German etc. languages this word has any 
> meaning except for the GIMP program.

I can testify that in Italian (and Esperanto) the term GIMP is
meaningless except for the acronym "GNU Image Manipulation Program"...

--

Saluton,
Marco Ciampa
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Norbert Preining via gimp-user-list]

Hi,

I am quite confident that there will be no action regarding name change
of the GIMP from the GNOME side, considering that if they do something,
they would be forced to change their own name first or being considered
hypocrit (gnome is a derogative term in several languages including my
mother tongue).


@Michael

On Thu, 27 May 2021, Michael Richards via gimp-user-list wrote:
> I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list

Feel free. There are lots of excellent oss programs in the same area, I
can strongly recommend krita. No need to use the GIMP if you feel
bothered.

Best

Norbert

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 28 May 2021 00:35:20 Bob Long wrote:

> Michael Richards via gimp-user-list wrote on 28/5/21 9:24 am:
> > Thank you Frederico,
> >
> > I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list for
> > now but am open to speaking with the maintainers of Gnu Image
> > Manipulation Program, the CoC, and/or the board of directors if any
> > or all of those groups wish.
> >
> > My intention is not to cause trouble for anyone but to help make
> > open source software more welcoming to, and safe for, everyone.
> >
> > My thanks to you, the other members of the CoC, and the Gnome
> > Foundation board of Directors addressing this request.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Michael Richards, BSc (he/his)
> > Victoria BC, Canada
>
> Given that Michael says he has removed himself from the list he may
> not see this. But I do not support a name change.

Neither do I. Graphics Image Modification Program, aka gimp, is just 
fine. At 86, theres a bit of a hitch in my gitalong too, in fact I'm up 
in the middle of the night working some Theraworx into a leg cramp.  I'm 
also a 30 year DM-II, so I'm obviously thin skinned and covered in 
bruises because I am still active, but not thin enough the name bothers 
me. To anyone who is bothered, grow some skin.

> And may I point out that Michael's signature line, "Michael Richards,
> BSc (he/his)" may offend some people (but not me)?


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Bob Long]

Michael Richards via gimp-user-list wrote on 28/5/21 9:24 am:
> Thank you Frederico,
>
> I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list for now but 
> am open to speaking with the maintainers of Gnu Image Manipulation Program, 
> the CoC, and/or the board of directors if any or all of those groups wish. 
>
> My intention is not to cause trouble for anyone but to help make open source 
> software more welcoming to, and safe for, everyone. 
>
> My thanks to you, the other members of the CoC, and the Gnome Foundation 
> board of Directors addressing this request.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mike
>
> Michael Richards, BSc (he/his)
> Victoria BC, Canada
>
Given that Michael says he has removed himself from the list he may not
see this. But I do not support a name change.

And may I point out that Michael's signature line, "Michael Richards,
BSc (he/his)" may offend some people (but not me)?

-- 

Bob Long


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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Dave Stevens]

On Thu, 27 May 2021 20:05:15 -0400
Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

> I vote for no name change.

Me too. Am I the only one to have read John Callahan's book? I have no
interest in turning a technical support list into a virtue signalling
fest. Do it yourself.

d
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Michael Richards via gimp-user-list  [05-27-21 
19:34]:
> Thank you Frederico,
> 
> I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list for now but 
> am open to speaking with the maintainers of Gnu Image Manipulation Program, 
> the CoC, and/or the board of directors if any or all of those groups wish. 
> 
> My intention is not to cause trouble for anyone but to help make open source 
> software more welcoming to, and safe for, everyone. 
> 
> My thanks to you, the other members of the CoC, and the Gnome Foundation 
> board of Directors addressing this request.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mike
> 
> Michael Richards, BSc (he/his)
> Victoria BC, Canada
> 
> 
> > On May 27, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Federico Mena Quintero  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 11:19 -0700, Michael Richards via code-of-
> > conduct-committee wrote:
> >> I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> >> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.
> > 
> > Hi, Michael, thanks for your report.
> > 
> > The CoC committee is aware of this problem, and the GNOME Foundation's


Please do not purport to speak for me as I am perfectly happy with the
current name and have been so for many years now.

I vote for no name change.

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Michael Richards via gimp-user-list]

Thank you Frederico,

I appreciate this. I have removed myself from the GIMP-user-list for now but am 
open to speaking with the maintainers of Gnu Image Manipulation Program, the 
CoC, and/or the board of directors if any or all of those groups wish. 

My intention is not to cause trouble for anyone but to help make open source 
software more welcoming to, and safe for, everyone. 

My thanks to you, the other members of the CoC, and the Gnome Foundation board 
of Directors addressing this request.

Sincerely,

Mike

Michael Richards, BSc (he/his)
Victoria BC, Canada


> On May 27, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Federico Mena Quintero  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 11:19 -0700, Michael Richards via code-of-
> conduct-committee wrote:
>> I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
>> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.
> 
> Hi, Michael, thanks for your report.
> 
> The CoC committee is aware of this problem, and the GNOME Foundation's
> Board of Directors is handling this as a special case.  The Board has
> had a private email thread and a video call with the GIMP's
> maintainers, and things have not been satisfactory to either party.
> 
> Reports to the CoC committee are kept in private, so unfortunately we
> cannot give you details on the state of the situation.  You can be
> assured that the Board is dealing with this.
> 
> Federico - as chairperson of the CoC Committee, and Board member.
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Federico Mena Quintero]

On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 11:19 -0700, Michael Richards via code-of-
conduct-committee wrote:
> I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct. 

Hi, Michael, thanks for your report.

The CoC committee is aware of this problem, and the GNOME Foundation's
Board of Directors is handling this as a special case.  The Board has
had a private email thread and a video call with the GIMP's
maintainers, and things have not been satisfactory to either party.

Reports to the CoC committee are kept in private, so unfortunately we
cannot give you details on the state of the situation.  You can be
assured that the Board is dealing with this.

  Federico - as chairperson of the CoC Committee, and Board member.

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Adrian Midgley via gimp-user-list]

One point: by all means say the acronymic name of the project and
software is sub-optimal, but please provide a proposed better name.
And for the acronym?  A renaming of those 4 words fails on the first
and last I think.

They could be reordered without losing sense:-

GNU Image Manipulation Program could become GNU Manipulating Images Program.


It is a general principle of Open Source movements that nobody may (or
can) be prevented from doing the work and offering it, but that also
nobody may instruct anyone else that they must do some work.

Offer money, that'd be different, although none of this is work I'd
care to bid for.


Gnome.
---
You seem to be asserting that nobody would be upset by being called a gnome.
It isn't so.

However since there are more things than words, some words get used
for more than one thing.


Googling for gimp, Gimp or GIMP, I find the first result is for the
GNU Image Manipulation Program.

GIMP is a longstanding project, first announced in November 1995

It takes 4 paragraphs down from that to find anything else.  (And
that's an article in The Register telling us of the formation of
Glimpse.  It asserts the most modern - new - use of the word - which
I'd distinguish from the acronym, but that may be too subtle - gimp is
as given by the OP here.

GIMP is a longstanding project, first announced in November 1995

When did gimp start being used in the sense complained of?
"gimp leg" occurs in British fiction of I think the 1940s, perhaps
earlier, but always in relation to someone wounded in the leg during
one of the recent wars, as an adjective, and as a first person
description ("my gimp leg"), not a pejorative one about another
person.  However the use complained of may have arisen more recently.

When? BTW?

I first recall it in contemporary use in a film,Pulp Fiction,
referring to someone whose sexual tastes were unusual in a specific
way involving a leather suit and mask.  I think that unless the fox
changes his fur that would not be confused.


"Finally, if you still have strong feelings about the name "GIMP", you
should feel free to promote the use of the long form GNU Image
Manipulation Program"

Two points in that quote from the project website: it is the acronym
GIMP that is offered as the short form name, and the name is the long
form.


Glimpse seems a misconceived reaction, and not really to what it was
presented as.
To fork the project and produce a new one whose mission statement
might be "A fork of the GNU Image Manipulation Program Project
intended to have exactly one difference: the name, which does not suit
everyone for various reasons" would do the job.  The OP is as free as
anyone else to do so and good luck.  I'd suggest that attempting to
acquire donations for anything more than the direct cost of
duplicating and storing the project would be unwise in terms of
effect.
Glimpse (not apparently an acronym?)

I'm not bothered, but then I've done no work in the project, whereas
the OP has perhaps made many useful contributions, and the maintainers
who have thought about it before certainly have.


Adrian Midgley   http://defoam.net/  http://defoam.net/photo.defoam.net/

On Wed, 26 May 2021 at 13:01, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>
> * Shlomi Fish  [05-26-21 02:52]:
> > On Tue, 25 May 2021 17:14:45 -0400
> > Liam R E Quin  wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 16:57 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner
> > > > to
> > > > depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
> > > > discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
> > > > consider it so.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Pease don't try telling people that they don't find something
> > > unpleasant.  The term is used as an insult in some regions.  Calling
> > > people names (narrow-minded) for being offended merely adds insult to
> > > an injury.
> > >
> > > There do seem to be cultural and linguistic differences in the
> > > relationship between people and symbols.  The role of tone of voice
> > > differs between cultures too.
> > >
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I think people should encourage criticism and learn how to grow a thicker 
> > skin
> > and to handle crit:
> > http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Encourage_criticism_and_try_to_get_offended/
> >  yes, even women can and should. i took some insults to my advantage:
> >
> > * https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/#rindolf_the_evil_reindeer
> >
> > * https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/the-eternal-jew/#reception
> >
> > * https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/nicknames.xhtml
>
> yes, we are all entitled to our opinions and to express them.  and they
> should only be admonished when directly related to *intentionally* causing
> harm or discomfort to an individual or group.  keyword being
> "intentionally".
>
>
> --
> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Member

Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Shlomi Fish  [05-26-21 02:52]:
> On Tue, 25 May 2021 17:14:45 -0400
> Liam R E Quin  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 16:57 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > > 
> > > it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner
> > > to
> > > depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
> > > discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
> > > consider it so.
> > >   
> > 
> > Pease don't try telling people that they don't find something
> > unpleasant.  The term is used as an insult in some regions.  Calling
> > people names (narrow-minded) for being offended merely adds insult to
> > an injury.
> > 
> > There do seem to be cultural and linguistic differences in the
> > relationship between people and symbols.  The role of tone of voice
> > differs between cultures too.
> > 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I think people should encourage criticism and learn how to grow a thicker skin
> and to handle crit:
> http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Encourage_criticism_and_try_to_get_offended/
>  yes, even women can and should. i took some insults to my advantage:
> 
> * https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/#rindolf_the_evil_reindeer
> 
> * https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/the-eternal-jew/#reception
> 
> * https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/nicknames.xhtml

yes, we are all entitled to our opinions and to express them.  and they
should only be admonished when directly related to *intentionally* causing
harm or discomfort to an individual or group.  keyword being
"intentionally".


-- 
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Shlomi Fish]

On Tue, 25 May 2021 17:14:45 -0400
Liam R E Quin  wrote:

> On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 16:57 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > 
> > it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner
> > to
> > depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
> > discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
> > consider it so.
> >   
> 
> Pease don't try telling people that they don't find something
> unpleasant.  The term is used as an insult in some regions.  Calling
> people names (narrow-minded) for being offended merely adds insult to
> an injury.
> 
> There do seem to be cultural and linguistic differences in the
> relationship between people and symbols.  The role of tone of voice
> differs between cultures too.
> 

Hi!

I think people should encourage criticism and learn how to grow a thicker skin
and to handle crit:
http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Encourage_criticism_and_try_to_get_offended/
. yes, even women can and should. i took some insults to my advantage:

* https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/#rindolf_the_evil_reindeer

* https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/the-eternal-jew/#reception

* https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/nicknames.xhtml


> 
> 
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in killing them.
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Robert T. Short]

I too walk with a hitch in my getalong.  I am also a native English 
(American) speaker and I do not find the name of the program offensive.


On 5/25/21 3:06 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:

I am sick of lunatics calling the shots

It is time for a revolt against insanity.

I am a GIMP and have been one for my hwole life and find the use of the
term GIMP to be uplifting and to give all us GIMPS the utmost honor to
be associated with such an esteamed project.


Furthermore, the Code of Conduct is BS and should be removed from the
Gnome Project.



On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:26:41PM +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:

În data de Tue, 25 May 2021 11:19:43 -0700, Michael Richards via gimp-user-list 
a scris:


I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.

I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.

[...]

In what language stands the name as discrimination ? In my language (Romanian) the word 
"gimp" has no meaning whatsoever. The only possible association is with the GNU 
Image Manipulation Program – and this only for those who work with it or at least ever 
heard about it.

I wonder if in Italian or French or German etc. languages this word has any 
meaning except for the GIMP program.

Cristi

--
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Ruben Safir]

I am sick of lunatics calling the shots

It is time for a revolt against insanity.

I am a GIMP and have been one for my hwole life and find the use of the
term GIMP to be uplifting and to give all us GIMPS the utmost honor to
be associated with such an esteamed project.


Furthermore, the Code of Conduct is BS and should be removed from the
Gnome Project.



On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:26:41PM +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> În data de Tue, 25 May 2021 11:19:43 -0700, Michael Richards via 
> gimp-user-list a scris:
> 
> > 
> > I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> > violates the GNOME Code of Conduct. 
> > 
> > I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
> > unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
> > 
> > [...]
> 
> In what language stands the name as discrimination ? In my language 
> (Romanian) the word "gimp" has no meaning whatsoever. The only possible 
> association is with the GNU Image Manipulation Program – and this only for 
> those who work with it or at least ever heard about it.
> 
> I wonder if in Italian or French or German etc. languages this word has any 
> meaning except for the GIMP program.
> 
> Cristi
> 
> -- 
> Cristian Secară
> https://www.secarica.ro
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proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive 
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com 

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but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Cliff Pratt via gimp-user-list]

FWIW There are distasteful meanings of the word Glimpse, too.

Cheers,

Cliff

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:15 AM Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-user-list <
gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Dear Michael,
>
> If I were to summarize our conversation with GNOME Foundation a few
> months back, it would be this: GIMP has neither boss nor master, so
> should the name of this project be changed, it will happen on team's
> own terms — the decision, the timing, the name etc.
>
> However, if your patience is running out, I encourage you to use
> https://glimpse-editor.org/ which specifically addresses your
> concerns.
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:19 PM Michael Richards via gimp-user-list
>  wrote:
> >
> > Dear Gnome and Gnu Image Manipulation Program community,
> >
> > I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.
> >
> > I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
> unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
> >
> > I want to be able to this software but I don’t feel morally able to
> because of the name.
> >
> > I know this is under the FAQ - and that perhaps makes it even more of a
> worthy conversation to revisit... because if you’re talking frequently
> asked then these concerns are not just mine.
> >
> > I am a person with multiple disabilities. I, and others like me, face
> many barriers, structural violence, and overt discrimination. All this
> together creates great suffering for many.
> >
> > The response I read in FAQ about changing this software’s name is not
> sufficient.
> >
> >
> https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it
> >
> > I don’t think that this is intentional but it comes out of ignorance and
> doesn’t reflect what I see as the spirit of the FOSS community.
> >
> > It essentially says, ‘we came up with a name we knew (or came to know)
> was offensive 20+ years ago and we refuse to change or evolve.’ Moreover,
> it is typical of the attitude towards people with disabilities as a
> marginalized group - it says, ‘Your pain and suffering are not important.
> Our branding is more important.’
> >
> > This is in violation of the Gnome.org Code of Conduct.
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/CodeOfConduct
> >
> > Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist language or otherwise
> exclusionary language. This includes deliberately referring to someone by a
> gender that they do not identify with, and/or questioning the legitimacy of
> an individual's gender identity. If you're unsure if a word is derogatory,
> don't use it. This also includes repeated subtle and/or indirect
> discrimination.
> > Think of how quickly this software’s name would change if the name was a
> derogatory term for another marginalized group. Terms I will not use even
> for example because they are generally considered so offensive. The name of
> this software is just as offensive.
> >
> > So, in the spirit of inclusion and doing no harm - I formally request
> that the name be changed. It’s 2021, the world is hurting, we need to work
> together.
> >
> > I am not asking this because I don’t want to support this software and
> the community that uses it and develops it. I requesting this because I
> want to support it.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Michael Richards, BSc, (he/him)
> > Victoria BC, Canada
> > ___
> > gimp-user-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
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>


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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Liam R E Quin]

On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 16:57 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> 
> it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner
> to
> depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
> discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
> consider it so.
> 

Pease don't try telling people that they don't find something
unpleasant.  The term is used as an insult in some regions.  Calling
people names (narrow-minded) for being offended merely adds insult to
an injury.

There do seem to be cultural and linguistic differences in the
relationship between people and symbols.  The role of tone of voice
differs between cultures too.



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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Liam R E Quin  [05-25-21 16:50]:
> On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 23:26 +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> > 
> > In what language stands the name as discrimination ?
> 
> English.

it would only be considered discriminatory if presented in a manner to
depict discrimination.  as a mere application name, it is not
discriminatory, only distasteful to one who is so narrow of mind to
consider it so.

anyone can find *anything* distasteful, even hairs in their soup.


-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Liam R E Quin]

On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 23:26 +0300, Cristian Secară wrote:
> 
> In what language stands the name as discrimination ?

English.


-- 
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Cristian Secară]

În data de Tue, 25 May 2021 11:19:43 -0700, Michael Richards via gimp-user-list 
a scris:

> 
> I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it
> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct. 
> 
> I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against
> unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
> 
> [...]

In what language stands the name as discrimination ? In my language (Romanian) 
the word "gimp" has no meaning whatsoever. The only possible association is 
with the GNU Image Manipulation Program – and this only for those who work with 
it or at least ever heard about it.

I wonder if in Italian or French or German etc. languages this word has any 
meaning except for the GIMP program.

Cristi

-- 
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https://www.secarica.ro
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Re: [Gimp-user] Violation of GNOME Code of Conduct - ablelist language and discrimination

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-user-list]

Dear Michael,

If I were to summarize our conversation with GNOME Foundation a few
months back, it would be this: GIMP has neither boss nor master, so
should the name of this project be changed, it will happen on team's
own terms — the decision, the timing, the name etc.

However, if your patience is running out, I encourage you to use
https://glimpse-editor.org/ which specifically addresses your
concerns.

Alex


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:19 PM Michael Richards via gimp-user-list
 wrote:
>
> Dear Gnome and Gnu Image Manipulation Program community,
>
> I formally request that the GIMP name be changed on the basis that it 
> violates the GNOME Code of Conduct.
>
> I make this request, not to cause trouble but to stand up against 
> unintentional - but no less harmful - discrimination.
>
> I want to be able to this software but I don’t feel morally able to because 
> of the name.
>
> I know this is under the FAQ - and that perhaps makes it even more of a 
> worthy conversation to revisit... because if you’re talking frequently asked 
> then these concerns are not just mine.
>
> I am a person with multiple disabilities. I, and others like me, face many 
> barriers, structural violence, and overt discrimination. All this together 
> creates great suffering for many.
>
> The response I read in FAQ about changing this software’s name is not 
> sufficient.
>
> https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it
>
> I don’t think that this is intentional but it comes out of ignorance and 
> doesn’t reflect what I see as the spirit of the FOSS community.
>
> It essentially says, ‘we came up with a name we knew (or came to know) was 
> offensive 20+ years ago and we refuse to change or evolve.’ Moreover, it is 
> typical of the attitude towards people with disabilities as a marginalized 
> group - it says, ‘Your pain and suffering are not important. Our branding is 
> more important.’
>
> This is in violation of the Gnome.org Code of Conduct. 
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/CodeOfConduct
>
> Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist language or otherwise 
> exclusionary language. This includes deliberately referring to someone by a 
> gender that they do not identify with, and/or questioning the legitimacy of 
> an individual's gender identity. If you're unsure if a word is derogatory, 
> don't use it. This also includes repeated subtle and/or indirect 
> discrimination.
> Think of how quickly this software’s name would change if the name was a 
> derogatory term for another marginalized group. Terms I will not use even for 
> example because they are generally considered so offensive. The name of this 
> software is just as offensive.
>
> So, in the spirit of inclusion and doing no harm - I formally request that 
> the name be changed. It’s 2021, the world is hurting, we need to work 
> together.
>
> I am not asking this because I don’t want to support this software and the 
> community that uses it and develops it. I requesting this because I want to 
> support it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Richards, BSc, (he/him)
> Victoria BC, Canada
> ___
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
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