RE: Revival: PROPOSAL: Literate haskell and module file names
Dear Merijn, Do you even need a separate extension or filename convention for this? Can't you just call it lhs and expand the definition thereof to include markdown? (I suggested something similar before, but objections were raised that having too good and too broad an unlitter might lead to the bit-rot of the flag to employ external unlitters. I didn't quite understand that objection, but didn't pursue it) Regards, Philip Van: Glasgow-haskell-users glasgow-haskell-users-boun...@haskell.org namens Merijn Verstraaten mer...@inconsistent.nl Verzonden: zaterdag 16 augustus 2014 00:40 Aan: haskell-pr...@haskell.org; glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org Onderwerp: Revival: PROPOSAL: Literate haskell and module file names Ola! I raised this proposal earlier this year and got to busy to follow up, this week I was suddenly reminded and decided to reraise this. To summarise the discussion up until this point: There was no real opposition to the general idea, the only real objection to the original proposal was that “Foo.lhs.md” and “Foo.md.lhs” would collide with the naming scheme used by JHC on case insensitive filesystems. Alternative proposal raised during the discussion: Foo+md.lhs, Foo.lhs+md” and “Foo.md+lhs”. According to MS documentation and testing the + should not be an issue on windows, the + doesn’t collide with any other haskell compiler (at least, not any I’m aware off) and since the report doesn’t specify any module name resolution mechanism, it does not conflict with the report either. My personal preferences goes to either “.lhs+md” or “.md+lhs”, since GHC currently tries every alternative in turn, I propose to just extend this list to look for any file whose extension is “.lhs+*” or “.*+lhs”. Are there any objections to this? If not, I’m just going to produce a patch + ticket as there were no real objections to the proposal last time. Cheers, Merijn On 16 Mar 2014, at 05:56 , Merijn Verstraaten mer...@inconsistent.nl wrote: Ola! I didn't know what the most appropriate venue for this proposal was so I crossposted to haskell-prime and glasgow-haskell-users, if this isn't the right venue I welcome advice where to take this proposal. Currently the report does not specify the mapping between filenames and module names (this is an issue in itself, it essentially makes writing haskell code that's interoperable between compilers impossible, as you can't know what directory layout each compiler expects). I believe that a minimal specification *should* go into the report (hence, haskell-prime). However, this is a separate issue from this proposal, so please start a new thread rather than sidetracking this one :) The report only mentions that by convention .hs extensions imply normal haskell and .lhs literate haskell (Section 10.4). In the absence of guidance from the report GHC's convention of mapping module Foo.Bar.Baz to Foo/Bar/Baz.hs or Foo/Bar/Baz.lhs seems the only sort of standard that exists. In general this standard is nice enough, but the mapping of literate haskell is a bit inconvenient, it leaves it completelyl ambiguous what the non-haskell content of said file is, which is annoying for tool authors. Pandoc has adopted the policy of checking for further file extensions for literate haskell source, e.g. Foo.rst.lhs and Foo.md.lhs. Here .rst.lhs gets interpreted as being reStructured Text with literate haskell and .md.lhs is Markdown with literate haskell. Unfortunately GHC currently maps filenames like this to the module names Foo.rst and Foo.md, breaking anything that wants to import the module Foo. I would like to propose allowing an optional extra extension in the pandoc style for literate haskell files, mapping Foo.rst.lhs to module name Foo. This is a backwards compatible change as there is no way for Foo.rst.lhs to be a valid module in the current GHC convention. Foo.rst.lhs would map to module name Foo.rst but module name Foo.rst maps to filename Foo/rst.hs which is not a valid haskell module anyway as the rst is lowercase and module names have to start with an uppercase letter. Pros: - Tool authors can more easily determine non-haskell content of literate haskell files - Currently valid module names will not break - Report doesn't specify behaviour, so GHC can do whatever it likes Cons: - Someone has to implement it - ?? Discussion: 4 weeks Cheers, Merijn ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: Revival: PROPOSAL: Literate haskell and module file names
Hey Philip, This proposal is not because *GHC* needs to know anything about markdown/rST, in fact, GHC is already perfectly happy to take a literate haskell files that’s written in markdown, since it just strips the non-haskell bits and only compiles the haskell code. The problem is OTHER tools. For example, I have literate haskell files for my blog posts, how does my blog software know whether my lhs file is markdown, rST, TeX, or what not? I can just name my files using anyway I want (like “Foo.md.lhs”) to have these tools detect the format, but then GHC will no longer compile my files. This is the problem I’m trying to solve with this proposal, once we settle on some extension format like this, it’s trivial to patch (for example) pandoc to use this to detect which contents are in the file. Cheers, Merijn On 16 Aug 2014, at 06:51 , p.k.f.holzensp...@utwente.nl wrote: Dear Merijn, Do you even need a separate extension or filename convention for this? Can't you just call it lhs and expand the definition thereof to include markdown? (I suggested something similar before, but objections were raised that having too good and too broad an unlitter might lead to the bit-rot of the flag to employ external unlitters. I didn't quite understand that objection, but didn't pursue it) Regards, Philip Van: Glasgow-haskell-users glasgow-haskell-users-boun...@haskell.org namens Merijn Verstraaten mer...@inconsistent.nl Verzonden: zaterdag 16 augustus 2014 00:40 Aan: haskell-pr...@haskell.org; glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org Onderwerp: Revival: PROPOSAL: Literate haskell and module file names Ola! I raised this proposal earlier this year and got to busy to follow up, this week I was suddenly reminded and decided to reraise this. To summarise the discussion up until this point: There was no real opposition to the general idea, the only real objection to the original proposal was that “Foo.lhs.md” and “Foo.md.lhs” would collide with the naming scheme used by JHC on case insensitive filesystems. Alternative proposal raised during the discussion: Foo+md.lhs, Foo.lhs+md” and “Foo.md+lhs”. According to MS documentation and testing the + should not be an issue on windows, the + doesn’t collide with any other haskell compiler (at least, not any I’m aware off) and since the report doesn’t specify any module name resolution mechanism, it does not conflict with the report either. My personal preferences goes to either “.lhs+md” or “.md+lhs”, since GHC currently tries every alternative in turn, I propose to just extend this list to look for any file whose extension is “.lhs+*” or “.*+lhs”. Are there any objections to this? If not, I’m just going to produce a patch + ticket as there were no real objections to the proposal last time. Cheers, Merijn On 16 Mar 2014, at 05:56 , Merijn Verstraaten mer...@inconsistent.nl wrote: Ola! I didn't know what the most appropriate venue for this proposal was so I crossposted to haskell-prime and glasgow-haskell-users, if this isn't the right venue I welcome advice where to take this proposal. Currently the report does not specify the mapping between filenames and module names (this is an issue in itself, it essentially makes writing haskell code that's interoperable between compilers impossible, as you can't know what directory layout each compiler expects). I believe that a minimal specification *should* go into the report (hence, haskell-prime). However, this is a separate issue from this proposal, so please start a new thread rather than sidetracking this one :) The report only mentions that by convention .hs extensions imply normal haskell and .lhs literate haskell (Section 10.4). In the absence of guidance from the report GHC's convention of mapping module Foo.Bar.Baz to Foo/Bar/Baz.hs or Foo/Bar/Baz.lhs seems the only sort of standard that exists. In general this standard is nice enough, but the mapping of literate haskell is a bit inconvenient, it leaves it completelyl ambiguous what the non-haskell content of said file is, which is annoying for tool authors. Pandoc has adopted the policy of checking for further file extensions for literate haskell source, e.g. Foo.rst.lhs and Foo.md.lhs. Here .rst.lhs gets interpreted as being reStructured Text with literate haskell and .md.lhs is Markdown with literate haskell. Unfortunately GHC currently maps filenames like this to the module names Foo.rst and Foo.md, breaking anything that wants to import the module Foo. I would like to propose allowing an optional extra extension in the pandoc style for literate haskell files, mapping Foo.rst.lhs to module name Foo. This is a backwards compatible change as there is no way for Foo.rst.lhs to be a valid module in the current GHC convention. Foo.rst.lhs would map to module name Foo.rst but module name Foo.rst
Re: Revival: PROPOSAL: Literate haskell and module file names
i personally think the .format+lhs pattern/convention is a good one, and prevents any misinterpretations that current plague literate tools + willl be treated as an unknown format rather than eagerly as .format or .lhs On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Merijn Verstraaten mer...@inconsistent.nl wrote: Hey Philip, This proposal is not because *GHC* needs to know anything about markdown/rST, in fact, GHC is already perfectly happy to take a literate haskell files that’s written in markdown, since it just strips the non-haskell bits and only compiles the haskell code. The problem is OTHER tools. For example, I have literate haskell files for my blog posts, how does my blog software know whether my lhs file is markdown, rST, TeX, or what not? I can just name my files using anyway I want (like “Foo.md.lhs”) to have these tools detect the format, but then GHC will no longer compile my files. This is the problem I’m trying to solve with this proposal, once we settle on some extension format like this, it’s trivial to patch (for example) pandoc to use this to detect which contents are in the file. Cheers, Merijn On 16 Aug 2014, at 06:51 , p.k.f.holzensp...@utwente.nl wrote: Dear Merijn, Do you even need a separate extension or filename convention for this? Can't you just call it lhs and expand the definition thereof to include markdown? (I suggested something similar before, but objections were raised that having too good and too broad an unlitter might lead to the bit-rot of the flag to employ external unlitters. I didn't quite understand that objection, but didn't pursue it) Regards, Philip Van: Glasgow-haskell-users glasgow-haskell-users-boun...@haskell.org namens Merijn Verstraaten mer...@inconsistent.nl Verzonden: zaterdag 16 augustus 2014 00:40 Aan: haskell-pr...@haskell.org; glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org Onderwerp: Revival: PROPOSAL: Literate haskell and module file names Ola! I raised this proposal earlier this year and got to busy to follow up, this week I was suddenly reminded and decided to reraise this. To summarise the discussion up until this point: There was no real opposition to the general idea, the only real objection to the original proposal was that “Foo.lhs.md” and “Foo.md.lhs” would collide with the naming scheme used by JHC on case insensitive filesystems. Alternative proposal raised during the discussion: Foo+md.lhs, Foo.lhs+md” and “Foo.md+lhs”. According to MS documentation and testing the + should not be an issue on windows, the + doesn’t collide with any other haskell compiler (at least, not any I’m aware off) and since the report doesn’t specify any module name resolution mechanism, it does not conflict with the report either. My personal preferences goes to either “.lhs+md” or “.md+lhs”, since GHC currently tries every alternative in turn, I propose to just extend this list to look for any file whose extension is “.lhs+*” or “.*+lhs”. Are there any objections to this? If not, I’m just going to produce a patch + ticket as there were no real objections to the proposal last time. Cheers, Merijn On 16 Mar 2014, at 05:56 , Merijn Verstraaten mer...@inconsistent.nl wrote: Ola! I didn't know what the most appropriate venue for this proposal was so I crossposted to haskell-prime and glasgow-haskell-users, if this isn't the right venue I welcome advice where to take this proposal. Currently the report does not specify the mapping between filenames and module names (this is an issue in itself, it essentially makes writing haskell code that's interoperable between compilers impossible, as you can't know what directory layout each compiler expects). I believe that a minimal specification *should* go into the report (hence, haskell-prime). However, this is a separate issue from this proposal, so please start a new thread rather than sidetracking this one :) The report only mentions that by convention .hs extensions imply normal haskell and .lhs literate haskell (Section 10.4). In the absence of guidance from the report GHC's convention of mapping module Foo.Bar.Baz to Foo/Bar/Baz.hs or Foo/Bar/Baz.lhs seems the only sort of standard that exists. In general this standard is nice enough, but the mapping of literate haskell is a bit inconvenient, it leaves it completelyl ambiguous what the non-haskell content of said file is, which is annoying for tool authors. Pandoc has adopted the policy of checking for further file extensions for literate haskell source, e.g. Foo.rst.lhs and Foo.md.lhs. Here .rst.lhs gets interpreted as being reStructured Text with literate haskell and .md.lhs is Markdown with literate haskell. Unfortunately GHC currently maps filenames like this to the module names Foo.rst and Foo.md, breaking anything that wants to import the module Foo. I would like to propose allowing an optional extra
Re: Are safe coercions safe in the sense of Safe Haskell?
Hi, thank you for these links. Still, it is interesting that also in GHC 7.8 you can have a coerce that is considered “Safe”, although the discussions on Trac concluded that this should not be the case. You can just import coerce via GHC.Prim, which is “Safe-Inferred”. All the best, Wolfgang Am Freitag, den 15.08.2014, 19:40 -0400 schrieb Richard Eisenberg: See https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/8745 and https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/8827 which discuss this problem at length. The short answer: It's conceivable that a role-unaware library author would have abstraction expectations that are defeated through the use of `coerce`. I would strongly welcome a proposal for how to make `coerce`, and hence GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving, to be considered Safe for 7.10. Richard On Aug 15, 2014, at 4:04 PM, Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: Hi, I would expect the function coerce :: Coercible a b = a - b to be safe in the sense of Safe Haskell. However, the Data.Coerce module is marked “Unsafe”. The coerce function is also available via GHC.Exts and GHC.Prim. The former module is marked “Unsafe”, but the latter is (surprisingly) marked “Safe-Inferred”. What are the reasons behind this? All the best, Wolfgang ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
