Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Niels de Vos]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 02:53:57PM +0530, Alok Srivastava wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:35 AM, Vijay Bellur  wrote:
> 
> > On 08/08/2016 04:57 AM, Alok Srivastava wrote:
> >
> >> Reviving the old thread..
> >>
> >> I was thinking about a possible NDMP based migration tool built into
> >> GlusterFS.
> >> Migration from any other file system storage (source) to gluster storage
> >> (target) can be challenging because of lack of a tool built into
> >> GlusterFS. Host based migration is a common approach but it can be
> >> painful for large datasets.
> >>
> >> The proposed migration tool will  transfer data over the Network Data
> >> Management Protocol (NDMP). This tool will make use of the snapshots
> >> feature on the source system to ensure that a point-in- time copy of the
> >> file system is transferred to the target. The proposed tool can also be
> >> utilized to migrate from gluster on old hardware to gluster on new
> >> hardware.
> >>
> >> Following is the proposed workflow:
> >>
> >> *1) **First copy*
> >>
> >> Migrate recursively from source directory to the gluster cluster. This
> >> is expected to be a time consuming step.
> >>
> >> * 2)  Incremental copy*
> >>
> >> Migrating any changes that occur after the first copy.
> >>
> >>   3)  Cutover
> >>
> >> Restrict clients from accessing data on the source , migrate remaining
> >> changes , and redirect clients to access their data on the gluster
> >> cluster.
> >>
> >>
> >> Note that there may be issues with migrating existing file permissions,
> >> quota enforcements, etc on the source.
> >>
> >> Missing pieces in gluster
> >>
> >>
> >> -NDMP support
> >>
> >> -May have to revive “ndmp-server” project?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Why is NDMP better than rsync from NFS (src) to FUSE (destination)?. Is it
> > owing to the incremental copy that NDMP can handle better?
> >
> 
> Right, Determining the files for incremental  migration will take longer
> with rsync. Also, the proposed approach is based on NDMP + Snapshots, Hence
> it's not a one size fits all approach. However, Making use of the snapshots
> will ensure that  a point in time copy is migrated and the in-flight
> directories are also accessible to the clients connected to the source.
> 
> NDMP support with gluster will help in integration with other backup
> utilities as well.

Do you have examples of backup utilities/communities that would like to
see NDMP support? I have never seen any requests from users about this.
We already have a nice integration with Bareos, and that supports NDMP I
think.

Maybe it would be a better approach to let backup software handle the
NDMP part, and Gluster just offers a nice integrated way to consume
point-in-time snapshots?

Niels


> 
> >
> > I have not seen the ndmp-server project in action or the code to comment
> > on how functional it was. We might have to implement from scratch if we
> > decide to go down this route.
> >
> > Aravinda - do you remember the state of this project?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vijay
> >
> >
> >

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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Alok Srivastava  wrote:
> the proposed approach is based on NDMP + Snapshots, Hence it's not a one
> size fits all approach. However, Making use of the snapshots will ensure
> that  a point in time copy is migrated and the in-flight directories are
> also accessible to the clients connected to the source.

Perhaps this is when the developers of snapshot feature would need to
chime in on the possible sequence of things to be done.


-- 
sankarshan mukhopadhyay

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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Alok Srivastava]

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:35 AM, Vijay Bellur  wrote:

> On 08/08/2016 04:57 AM, Alok Srivastava wrote:
>
>> Reviving the old thread..
>>
>> I was thinking about a possible NDMP based migration tool built into
>> GlusterFS.
>> Migration from any other file system storage (source) to gluster storage
>> (target) can be challenging because of lack of a tool built into
>> GlusterFS. Host based migration is a common approach but it can be
>> painful for large datasets.
>>
>> The proposed migration tool will  transfer data over the Network Data
>> Management Protocol (NDMP). This tool will make use of the snapshots
>> feature on the source system to ensure that a point-in- time copy of the
>> file system is transferred to the target. The proposed tool can also be
>> utilized to migrate from gluster on old hardware to gluster on new
>> hardware.
>>
>> Following is the proposed workflow:
>>
>> *1) **First copy*
>>
>> Migrate recursively from source directory to the gluster cluster. This
>> is expected to be a time consuming step.
>>
>> * 2)  Incremental copy*
>>
>> Migrating any changes that occur after the first copy.
>>
>>   3)  Cutover
>>
>> Restrict clients from accessing data on the source , migrate remaining
>> changes , and redirect clients to access their data on the gluster
>> cluster.
>>
>>
>> Note that there may be issues with migrating existing file permissions,
>> quota enforcements, etc on the source.
>>
>> Missing pieces in gluster
>>
>>
>> -NDMP support
>>
>> -May have to revive “ndmp-server” project?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Why is NDMP better than rsync from NFS (src) to FUSE (destination)?. Is it
> owing to the incremental copy that NDMP can handle better?
>

Right, Determining the files for incremental  migration will take longer
with rsync. Also, the proposed approach is based on NDMP + Snapshots, Hence
it's not a one size fits all approach. However, Making use of the snapshots
will ensure that  a point in time copy is migrated and the in-flight
directories are also accessible to the clients connected to the source.

NDMP support with gluster will help in integration with other backup
utilities as well.

>
> I have not seen the ndmp-server project in action or the code to comment
> on how functional it was. We might have to implement from scratch if we
> decide to go down this route.
>
> Aravinda - do you remember the state of this project?
>
> Thanks,
> Vijay
>
>
>
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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Vijay Bellur]

On 08/08/2016 04:57 AM, Alok Srivastava wrote:

Reviving the old thread..

I was thinking about a possible NDMP based migration tool built into
GlusterFS.
Migration from any other file system storage (source) to gluster storage
(target) can be challenging because of lack of a tool built into
GlusterFS. Host based migration is a common approach but it can be
painful for large datasets.

The proposed migration tool will  transfer data over the Network Data
Management Protocol (NDMP). This tool will make use of the snapshots
feature on the source system to ensure that a point-in- time copy of the
file system is transferred to the target. The proposed tool can also be
utilized to migrate from gluster on old hardware to gluster on new hardware.

Following is the proposed workflow:

*1) **First copy*

Migrate recursively from source directory to the gluster cluster. This
is expected to be a time consuming step.

* 2)  Incremental copy*

Migrating any changes that occur after the first copy.

  3)  Cutover

Restrict clients from accessing data on the source , migrate remaining
changes , and redirect clients to access their data on the gluster cluster.


Note that there may be issues with migrating existing file permissions,
quota enforcements, etc on the source.

Missing pieces in gluster


-NDMP support

-May have to revive “ndmp-server” project?





Why is NDMP better than rsync from NFS (src) to FUSE (destination)?. Is 
it owing to the incremental copy that NDMP can handle better?


I have not seen the ndmp-server project in action or the code to comment 
on how functional it was. We might have to implement from scratch if we 
decide to go down this route.


Aravinda - do you remember the state of this project?

Thanks,
Vijay


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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Alok Srivastava]

Reviving the old thread..

I was thinking about a possible NDMP based migration tool built into
GlusterFS.
Migration from any other file system storage (source) to gluster storage
(target) can be challenging because of lack of a tool built into GlusterFS.
Host based migration is a common approach but it can be painful for large
datasets.

The proposed migration tool will  transfer data over the Network Data
Management Protocol (NDMP). This tool will make use of the snapshots
feature on the source system to ensure that a point-in- time copy of the
file system is transferred to the target. The proposed tool can also be
utilized to migrate from gluster on old hardware to gluster on new hardware.

Following is the proposed workflow:

*1) **First copy*

Migrate recursively from source directory to the gluster cluster. This is
expected to be a time consuming step.

*  2)  Incremental copy*

Migrating any changes that occur after the first copy.

  3)  Cutover

Restrict clients from accessing data on the source , migrate remaining
changes , and redirect clients to access their data on the gluster cluster.

Note that there may be issues with migrating existing file permissions,
quota enforcements, etc on the source.

Missing pieces in gluster


-NDMP support

-May have to revive “ndmp-server” project?


Please share your thoughts.


Regards

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Niels de Vos  wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 05:40:53PM +0530, Aravinda wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We are trying to implement backup support for GlusterFS. Many Network
> backup
> > utilities like Bacula(open source), Amanda(open source), Symantec
> NetBackup
> > support NDMP(http://www.ndmp.org/). Comparison is available here
> > http://wiki.bacula.org/doku.php?id=comparisons
> >
> > Plan is to create glusterfs-ndmp-server, which utilizes glusterfs
> changelogs
> > to detect changes for incremental backup. Design is not yet finalized,
> > Comments & Suggestions Welcome.
> >
> > Looks like a project(https://forge.gluster.org/ndmp-server) in
> forge.gluster
> > is discontinued.
> >
> > PS: NDMP support is not available in Open Source editions of Bacula and
> > Amanda, but available in Enterprise Editions.
>
> Bareos (www.bareos.org) a full Open Source fork of Bacula seems to
> support NDMP:
> - https://github.com/bareos/bareos/blob/master/README.NDMP
> - http://doc.bareos.org/master/html/bareos-manual-main-
> reference.html#x1-12800010.3
>
> I think Bareos has already support to backup to a Gluster Volume.
>
> From my understanding you are proposing a feature that integrates a
> (async/changelog) NDMP-client in the Gluster xlator stack that writes to
> a NDMP-server?
>
> HTH,
> Niels
>
> >
> > References:
> > ---
> > 1. NDMP support in NetBackup
> > http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=DOC6456
> > 2. NDMP Presentation
> > http://www.ndmp.org/download/sdk_v4/ndmp-overview-r2.ppt
> > 3. NDMP website http://www.ndmp.org/
> > 4. Bacula and Amanda website http://bacula.org/ and
> http://www.amanda.org/
> >
> > --
> > regards
> > Aravinda
> > ___
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> > Gluster-devel@gluster.org
> > http://supercolony.gluster.org/mailman/listinfo/gluster-devel
>
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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Pranith Kumar Karampuri]

Probably a good question on gluster-users (CCed)

Pranith

On 10/14/2015 03:57 AM, Brian Lahoue wrote:
Has anyone tested backing up a fairly large Gluster implementation 
with Amanda/ZManda recently?









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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Brian Lahoue]

Has anyone tested backing up a fairly large Gluster implementation with 
Amanda/ZManda recently?






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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Niels de Vos]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 05:40:53PM +0530, Aravinda wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We are trying to implement backup support for GlusterFS. Many Network backup
> utilities like Bacula(open source), Amanda(open source), Symantec NetBackup
> support NDMP(http://www.ndmp.org/). Comparison is available here
> http://wiki.bacula.org/doku.php?id=comparisons
> 
> Plan is to create glusterfs-ndmp-server, which utilizes glusterfs changelogs
> to detect changes for incremental backup. Design is not yet finalized,
> Comments & Suggestions Welcome.
> 
> Looks like a project(https://forge.gluster.org/ndmp-server) in forge.gluster
> is discontinued.
> 
> PS: NDMP support is not available in Open Source editions of Bacula and
> Amanda, but available in Enterprise Editions.

Bareos (www.bareos.org) a full Open Source fork of Bacula seems to
support NDMP:
- https://github.com/bareos/bareos/blob/master/README.NDMP
- 
http://doc.bareos.org/master/html/bareos-manual-main-reference.html#x1-12800010.3

I think Bareos has already support to backup to a Gluster Volume.

From my understanding you are proposing a feature that integrates a
(async/changelog) NDMP-client in the Gluster xlator stack that writes to
a NDMP-server?

HTH,
Niels

> 
> References:
> ---
> 1. NDMP support in NetBackup
> http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=DOC6456
> 2. NDMP Presentation
> http://www.ndmp.org/download/sdk_v4/ndmp-overview-r2.ppt
> 3. NDMP website http://www.ndmp.org/
> 4. Bacula and Amanda website http://bacula.org/ and http://www.amanda.org/
> 
> --
> regards
> Aravinda
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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[James]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Aravinda  wrote:
> Plan is to create glusterfs-ndmp-server, which utilizes glusterfs changelogs
> to detect changes for incremental backup. Design is not yet finalized,
> Comments & Suggestions Welcome.

Very cool, however as an aside, if reflink's could be supported within
a GlusterFS volume, and even better, between GlusterFS volumes, then
backup could be fairly instant and awesome for large filesystems.
Without this feature, I fear a backup feature is not very useful. This
is because if you have ~10PB, the time it will take for restore is
just too long.

I've mentioned this before, but it's probably not trivial to implement
reflinks (but hopefully not impossible!)

Cheers,
James
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Re: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Joseph Fernandes]

Hi Aravinda,

Venky, Kotresh and me had a discussion on "Data Maintenance infrastructure" 
that will help 
Data maintenance services like Data Tiering, Bitrot, Backup, dedupe etc to 
identify the data(file/directory) set
to work on using sequential notification service or non-sequential recording 
Data Store service.

Today as part of the data tiering project I have the non-sequential recording 
data store ready that will give you a list of 
file that are hotter/colder (both read/write). i,e in your scenario files that 
have change from the last backup. But this is just a part of the solution.
As far as I know,  Venky is going to come up with a elaborate document on this 
soon.

On the NDMP side I have few question for you,
1) Are you planning to develop our own NDMP Tape and Data Service from the 
scratch? 
2) Or are you planning to use a well established  3rd party NDMP Tape and Data 
Service? Well that case we need to give the list of files that need to be backup
to such a software.

Regards,
Joe

- Original Message -
From: "Aravinda" 
To: "Gluster Devel" 
Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 5:40:53 PM
Subject: [Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

Hi,

We are trying to implement backup support for GlusterFS. Many Network 
backup utilities like Bacula(open source), Amanda(open source), Symantec 
NetBackup support NDMP(http://www.ndmp.org/). Comparison is available 
here http://wiki.bacula.org/doku.php?id=comparisons

Plan is to create glusterfs-ndmp-server, which utilizes glusterfs 
changelogs to detect changes for incremental backup. Design is not yet 
finalized, Comments & Suggestions Welcome.

Looks like a project(https://forge.gluster.org/ndmp-server) in 
forge.gluster is discontinued.

PS: NDMP support is not available in Open Source editions of Bacula and 
Amanda, but available in Enterprise Editions.

References:
---
1. NDMP support in NetBackup 
http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=DOC6456
2. NDMP Presentation 
http://www.ndmp.org/download/sdk_v4/ndmp-overview-r2.ppt
3. NDMP website http://www.ndmp.org/
4. Bacula and Amanda website http://bacula.org/ and http://www.amanda.org/

--
regards
Aravinda
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[Gluster-devel] Backup support for GlusterFS

[Aravinda]

Hi,

We are trying to implement backup support for GlusterFS. Many Network 
backup utilities like Bacula(open source), Amanda(open source), Symantec 
NetBackup support NDMP(http://www.ndmp.org/). Comparison is available 
here http://wiki.bacula.org/doku.php?id=comparisons


Plan is to create glusterfs-ndmp-server, which utilizes glusterfs 
changelogs to detect changes for incremental backup. Design is not yet 
finalized, Comments & Suggestions Welcome.


Looks like a project(https://forge.gluster.org/ndmp-server) in 
forge.gluster is discontinued.


PS: NDMP support is not available in Open Source editions of Bacula and 
Amanda, but available in Enterprise Editions.


References:
---
1. NDMP support in NetBackup 
http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=DOC6456
2. NDMP Presentation 
http://www.ndmp.org/download/sdk_v4/ndmp-overview-r2.ppt

3. NDMP website http://www.ndmp.org/
4. Bacula and Amanda website http://bacula.org/ and http://www.amanda.org/

--
regards
Aravinda
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