Re: Setting accessible name for SpinButton and ComboButton in pygtk2

[Tom Masterson via gnome-accessibility-list]

Not quite true.  They ill need a copy of chirp with any change you have made so 
a least daily and an image of a downloaded radio which can be provided (I have 
several).  All actions work on an image just as i you had just downloaded the 
information.

Alternatively if I can figure out how to get accerciser to give the information 
needed I would be happy to send log to any wh need them,

Tom

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 29, 2018, at 09:11, Nolan Darilek  wrote:
> 
> Not easily. You can download CHIRP, plug in a supported radio, download
> its memories, then access its settings.
> 
> 
> But what I'm asking is if these widgets should be presenting their
> accessible names alongside their values. If the answer is yes, then I'll
> capture a debug.out and go from there. If the answer is no, use this
> other mechanism, then I'll switch to that other mechanism.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 03/29/2018 09:50 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote:
>> Could you provide us simple steps to reproduce the issue you have? Or
>> a function or ui file that generate the spinbutton or combobox?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Alex.
>> 
>>> Le 28/03/2018 à 18:49, Nolan Darilek a écrit :
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm trying to learn a bit about GTK/GNOME accessibility development.
>>> Recently I began dipping my toes into amateur radio, and while the Chirp
>>> radio programming software is highly accessible, there are some rough
>>> edges. The biggest of these is that programatically-created radio
>>> settings screens don't associate labels with their widgets.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Chirp uses pygtk2. After it creates the widget, I use the following:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  print("Setting name", element.get_shortname(), widget)
>>> 
>>> widget.get_accessible().set_name(element.get_shortname())
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And this correctly sets the accessible name for checkboxes, text areas,
>>> everything but SpinBoxes and ComboBoxes.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am I on the right track with this? How do I associate a label with a
>>> Combo/Spin box such that tabbing onto it speaks the associated label?
>>> This works with checkboxes/text areas, so I don't know if I'm doing
>>> something incorrectly, or if this is an Orca issue.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Remote desktop and windows

[Tom Masterson]

Has anyone found a way to use remote desktop to access a windows machine 
from linux and if so how did you do it?  Note I am blind and depending on 
orca or some other screen reader.


Thanks
Tom
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Python and accessibility question

[Tom Masterson]

So I am looking at a python program which uses gtk.  Where can I find 
information on waht needs to be done to make it accessible?  Currently it 
isn't.


Tom
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Re: An Open Letter to Oracle on the Topic Of Accessibility

[Tom Masterson]

One of the problems I see as both an advocate and a developer is that 
making things accessible is not as easy as it should be at least in linux. 
You have to consciously add code to make it work.  I am far from being a 
fan of Microsoft but one thing they did right with Visual Studio was to 
put all the properties etc for their msaa in the sheets so they are right 
there.  Granted not everyone actually fills them in yet but it is a lot 
easier than having to actually remember to do it.


The building blocks of all our code as simple as possible to use and add 
accessibility so it isn't a chore for developers.  Let's face it the 
majority of designers don't even consider accessibility even when they 
have people who need it on the team.


Ideally we should work on making accessibility a part of the college and 
other training curiculums so that at least new folks come in to the 
software world already indoctrinated with the need for making things 
accessible.


Tom

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, Willie Walker wrote:


[[[apologies if this seems like it was written one paragraph at a time
with no flow -- it was written one paragraph at a time while try to pay
attention in a meeting]]]

Education is key.  Part of why I saw so much value in going to the GNOME
Usability Hackfest was to spread the word and get accessibility
considerations as close to the design as possible.  It also needs to be
done in a positive way to make them want to take ownership of the space
versus us setting up a dependency relationship with them.

In general, I think we want to create people that say I *know* how to
make this accessible versus I think accessibility is important and I'm
going to ask the accessibility guys to fix this for me.  Getting to the
latter, of course, is still a laudable achievement.  :-)

In general, we need to continue the advocacy, and I think we need
advocates as close to the source of the solution as possible.  So,
having an advocate on the release team can help give a stronger voice
that can help prevent accessibility problems from passing through
releases.

On a plus side, blockages created by advocates can help make developers
more sensitive to accessible design and testing. But...these blockages
need to be done with care.  Closed fist table bangers with big mouths
can help us once[1], but can also build up barriers that are hard to
break down.

So, instead of always banging on the table, we need to use those
situations as learning opportunities for everyone, including us.

Having said all that, it thrills me to see just about every GNOME
developer and designer have some level of exposure to accessibility.

Will

[1] - I'm not saying we are closed fist table bangers.  I'm just saying
we need to take care in creating a perception that we are.

On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 08:32 -0600, Bryen M Yunashko wrote:

On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 09:24 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:

I encourage you to get more involved - it is the best way to make a
difference.


+1 :-)  We need a strong advocate on the release team.

Will




So how do we do this?  Not just to ensure strong a11y advocacy on the
release team, but in other areas of GNOME.  People may feel they don't
want to participate on a particular team (release team?) because they
don't have the technical qualifications and/or simply don't want to sign
on to yet another mailing list when their mailboxes are already
overloaded.  (I've got over 12,000 unread messages in my 'mailing list'
account.)

Do we educate those in the a11y community to be more technically
proficient to participate in these teams?  Do we educate the teams to
look to the a11y team more?  How do we find middle ground?

We definitely need to do more to publicize our own actions and issues to
a broader community and that's something I'm looking at seriously these
days as I gear up for the upcoming CSUN conference and think about ways
that will sustain news delivery from our team long after CSUN.  To make
it a more integral part of our daily activities.

I don't think we have an answer just yet for an overnight solution, but
the answer definitely must include, as Willie says, more advocacy and
awareness of A11y across the board.  Baked in, not bolted on Willie
also says and I absolutely love that concept.

Bryen Yunashko



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Re: GNOME 2.30: go stable or go cutting edge?

[Tom Masterson]

Speaking from the standpoint of a user.  I want it to be stable.  I don't 
mind working with an unstable version on a virtual machine but I want my 
main machine to remain stable so I can work and I want to be able to 
upgrade my OS (ubuntu) without loosing my accessibility.


Granted I do most of my work at the command console but I still need and 
use openoffice and firefox along with other software and really can't 
afford to have those unstable or inaccessible.


Tom


On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Willie Walker wrote:


Hi All:

GNOME 2.30 is coming out on the Ides of March (March 15).  I have one main 
question for you: do you want it to be stable or do you want it to have more 
cutting edge stuff?  This question is predicated on the assumption that GNOME 
2.30 is the last of the GNOME 2 releases and GNOME 3 is coming out this fall.  
It also assumes that we will resolve the harder problems we currently have with 
AT-SPI/D-Bus very soon.

Here's the background -- GNOME Accessibility has been facing a perfect storm 
for the GNOME 2.30 cycle.  The three major fronts of this storm are: Bonobo/CORBA 
elimination, WebKit accessibility, and GNOME Shell accessibility.  You can read a lengthy 
summary of the current state of the work at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3.

Here's some pros/cons.  Note that the quantity of pros/cons doesn't necessarily 
mean anything.  They are just talking points, and actually quite simple at that.

PROS/CONS for going with the cutting edge:
==

PRO: GNOME accessibility may be more widely available on smaller/mobile devices 
-- those devices are happy to have D-Bus but do not want CORBA.

PRO: The cutting edge stuff will likely get more testing coverage for GNOME 
3.0, helping improve the GNOME 3.0 accessibility experience.

PRO: We will be able to eliminate a huge portion of deprecated stuff in GNOME.

CON: GNOME 2.30 accessibility could very well be unstable or slow for 
day-to-day use for doing your job or functioning in life.  Staying on GNOME 
2.28.x would be recommended for people who need more stability.

CON: GOK will not work.  OnBoard and an early form of Caribou would be the on 
screen keyboard solutions.

PROS/CONS for staying stable:
=

PRO: Users should still be able to use GNOME 2.30 with the same stability and 
reliability they get with GNOME 2.28.x.

PRO: GOK will work.

CON: The testing of cutting edge stuff may not be as broad, so GNOME 3.0 may go 
out without as much testing as it needs.

CON: GNOME will need to continue to carry Bonobo/CORBA around.

CON: GNOME accessibility will remain unavailable on smaller/mobile devices that 
do not ship Bonobo/CORBA.

My first concern is the end user.  As a result, I tend to be more conservative 
and lean towards stability.  That is, making sure GNOME provides a compelling 
accessible desktop for reliable and usable day-to-day activity goes a long way 
to addressing the needs of the user.  With this, we're likely to say GNOME 3.0 
will be more wrinkled in terms of accessibility and we could look to GNOME 3.2 
and 3.4 to iron things out.

However, given where we are with proximity to GNOME 3, I'm also tempted by the 
notion of getting the new stuff out there sooner.  This would potentially 
forsake the accessibility of the last (or one of the last) releases of the 
GNOME 2 series while helping set us up for an earlier accessibility success for 
GNOME 3.

Please, speak up with your thoughts.  The collective opinion of our group 
matters and it will help shape what recommendations we will make to the release 
team for GNOME 2.30.

Will

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On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Luke Yelavich wrote:


On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 11:54:19AM PST, Willie Walker wrote:

Hi All:

GNOME 2.30 is coming out on the Ides of March (March 15).  I have one main 
question for you: do you want it to be stable or do you want it to have more 
cutting edge stuff?  This question is predicated on the assumption that GNOME 
2.30 is the last of the GNOME 2 releases and GNOME 3 is coming out this fall.  
It also assumes that we will resolve the harder problems we currently have with 
AT-SPI/D-Bus very soon.


Ubuntu Lucid ships with GNOME 2.30, we are keeping CORBA around, since we still 
use evolution 2.28 for one. So from an LTS distro and a11y maintainer POV, I 
would prefer GNOME 2.30 remains accessibility enabled and aims for stability. 
The First one or two releases of Ubuntu after this LTS will likely have crack 
of the day content, which will be a good testing ground for 
GNOME3/accessibility bug squashing.

Luke
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On Tue, 2 

Brailleconnect and linux

[Tom Masterson]

Sorry if this is an incorrect place to ask this but it is the list
address I have available here.

Has anyone gotten the Baum Brailleconnect to work with linux via usb
(using brltty)?  If so what do I need to do to get it to work?  In
theory it can also emulate a handytech.  I am using Ubuntu 8.10.

Tom

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Re: GNOME Accessibility on by default, and Firefox

[Tom Masterson]

Here is my understanding of this thread that I have been quietly watchig
from the sidelines.

WHat is being asked for is something closer to the windows model.  In
other words if accessibility is needed by an AT app like orca then it is
started and runs.  However if it is not needed it is not being used.
THis can be important on a computer used by many people where one wants
accessibility and one does not.  In windows you simply shut down the
screen reader and the lag it introduces goes away which is not the case
in Gnome as far as I can tell.

Ideally of course there would be no difference between having an AT
program running and not but given that there is extra proccessing
involved that isn't likely to happen.

DOn't know if that is a correct reading but it is my understanding.

Tom

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 04:23:51PM -0400, Willie Walker wrote:
 BTW, I'm not sure about the details of what the Gecko
 implementation does, but it would surprise me if it *always* loaded the
 accessibility modules regardless of the gconf setting.
 Afaik we do just use the gconf setting, which is the problem. Then we  
 start creating accessible objects, firing extra events, doing extra  
 processing for DOM mutations, lalala. What other check should we use  
 before turning it on?

 To be clear, if the gconf setting is not set, then no accessibility  
 support will be enabled in Firefox.  Is that right?

 If so, I'm confused.  By enabling accessibility, the user is saying they  
 want accessibility enabled.  But, it seems like the argument being made  
 here is that even if the user enables accessibility, they really don't  
 want it.

 I think I might have missed the actual use case (I've been out of the  
 country for the past week).  Can you describe why someone would call to  
 order pizza and then complain when it is delivered?  Seems to me they  
 should not have ordered it in the first place.  ;-)

   However, *something* needs to already be awake so that an assistive
   technology can discover the top level application object in the 
 first   place.
 ...
 Any time any app asks for even the root accessible object for a given  
 window, that window receives a signal.

 This may be the case on Windows, but I don't believe it is the case for  
 GNOME.

 Will
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Re: Gnopernicus, brltty and debian

[Tom Masterson]

Okay.  We discovered that braille is started in the startup box but the is 
no list of option in preferences/braille/device.  It gives one choice that 
being none.

Or at least so I am told.  I might add that speech does not work on that 
computer because linux doesn't like the sound card.  We are searching for 
a different one (if we have one) but at this point I must rely on braille 
and/or sighted help.

Tom


 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:06:46 +0300
 From: remus draica [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Tom Masterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: Gnome accessibility gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org
 Subject: Re: Gnopernicus, brltty and debian

 On Wed, 2006-08-09 at 07:05 -0700, Tom Masterson wrote:

 Hi,

 Gnopernicus has an UI from which you can configure it. So, no need to
 use or look into gconf keys.

 The dialogs you have to look at are:
  1. Startup Mode (make sure that braille is on--- the check box is
 checked)
  2. Preferences / 2 Braille / Braille Device (make sure that brltty is
 selected)

 Regards,
 Remus




 Iterestingly when I finally got a sighted colleague to look at it in gnome
 here is what we find.
 
 using gconftool-2 at the console the device shows as brltty however in
 gnome it shows as none and there is no drop down to select from.  I fond
 that at the end of day yesterday and am looking into it further today.
 
 Note that none of my colleagues have worked with screen reader technology
 before so I am having to do some interpretation of what they are reading.
 
 Tom
 
 
 On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, remus draica wrote:
 
 On Mon, 2006-08-07 at 19:15 -0700, Tom Masterson wrote:
 
 Hi Tom,
 
 Please check if braille is on in gnopernicus and brltty device is
 selected.
 
 Regards,
 Remus
 
 
 I am using the unstable version of Debian and kernel version 2.6, brltty
 3.7.2-3.1 and gnopernicus 1.0.5-1.
 I am getting no response from the braille display when I type startx 
 other
 than screen in not in text mode.  The braille display is an Alva abt34d
 which works fine with brltty at the console.  Any ideas of what might be
 wrong and how to solve it?  I followed the instructions on the brltty 
 site
 for setting up gnome.
 
 Tom Masterson
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Re: Gnopernicus, brltty and debian

[Tom Masterson]

Iterestingly when I finally got a sighted colleague to look at it in gnome 
here is what we find.

using gconftool-2 at the console the device shows as brltty however in 
gnome it shows as none and there is no drop down to select from.  I fond 
that at the end of day yesterday and am looking into it further today.

Note that none of my colleagues have worked with screen reader technology 
before so I am having to do some interpretation of what they are reading.

Tom


On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, remus draica wrote:

 On Mon, 2006-08-07 at 19:15 -0700, Tom Masterson wrote:

 Hi Tom,

 Please check if braille is on in gnopernicus and brltty device is
 selected.

 Regards,
 Remus


 I am using the unstable version of Debian and kernel version 2.6, brltty
 3.7.2-3.1 and gnopernicus 1.0.5-1.
 I am getting no response from the braille display when I type startx other
 than screen in not in text mode.  The braille display is an Alva abt34d
 which works fine with brltty at the console.  Any ideas of what might be
 wrong and how to solve it?  I followed the instructions on the brltty site
 for setting up gnome.

 Tom Masterson
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Gnopernicus, brltty and debian

[Tom Masterson]

I am using the unstable version of Debian and kernel version 2.6, brltty 
3.7.2-3.1 and gnopernicus 1.0.5-1.
I am getting no response from the braille display when I type startx other 
than screen in not in text mode.  The braille display is an Alva abt34d 
which works fine with brltty at the console.  Any ideas of what might be 
wrong and how to solve it?  I followed the instructions on the brltty site 
for setting up gnome.

Tom Masterson
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