Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-08-21 Thread Shaun McCance
On Fri, 2014-05-09 at 21:08 +0200, Ask Hjorth Larsen wrote:
 Hello everyone
 
 First of all I am very willing to implement a mode in gtxml
 specifically for this.
 
 Fixing the translator-credits issue is obviously very easy.
 
 I can make it so that gtxml will only complain about syntax errors,
 i.e. strings that are not accepted by the xml parser.  This requires
 that all msgids and msgstrs - except the header and translator-credits
 - can be assumed to be XML.
 
 The files also contain media links to images/videos with their md5
 hashes.  Perhaps a special check should be made for those, since they
 are probably not required to be legal XML.  Are there other classes of
 strings to be aware of?  Is all this acceptable?  Also, who could
 actually approve this and make it run on the server?

For any special strings that don't correspond directly to some content,
itstool always uses msgctxt _. So at least for itstool-generated PO
files, you could ignore any messages with msgctxt _.

 Right now gtxml can to various extents be smarter and detect more
 errors - e.g. whether unexpected XML tags are used.  But some
 translators tend to insert their own little xml things when they want,
 which is fine by itself, but can lead to false positives when
 attempting to be too smart.
 
 What happens with placeholder tags (such as _:ulink-1, _:ulink-2 and
 so on), how bad is it if those are messed up?

For any placeholder tags, itstool always uses the namespace prefix _.
(It does an internal mapping of this to a namespace URI, which nobody
should bother caring about (and yes, a known limitation of itstool is
that it will do bad things if you use _ as a namespace prefix in your
source documents.))

Messages with placeholders should always be well-formed. It would be
nice to check that the placeholder elements in the source message line
up with those in the translated message.

Other XML-PO tools could do things completely differently. xml2po does
not use a special msgctxt or namespace prefix for anything. But people
should stop using xml2po anyway. I think KDE has their own tool. They
should probably just use itstool too. I'm not sure what Okapi does, but
it's targeted at XLIFF anyway, and its PO exporter is a bonus feature
that I'm not sure many people use.

There are probably other tools I don't know about. I saw a svg2po once
somewhere. They should really just use itstool too.

Extra bonus side note: I've asked the gettext maintainers before about
adding a flag to identify XML content, like:

#, xml-fragment

It's been a while since I bugged them about that. Then tools like gtxml
could just look for messages with that flag.

--
Shaun


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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-06-05 Thread Daniel Mustieles García
Hi Ask. Now it's me who is answering too late... sorry.

I guess we could integrate gtxml checks in git as pre-commit hook (like
it's actually done with msgfmt to check integrity), but to do this we need
to ensure it will not report false positives.

If you can modify gtxml to ignore the translator-credits string and we can
ensure it won't report false positives, I would vote for doing it. Altough
it couldn't detect all the possible errors, will be better than nothing.

What the other i18n members think about?

As always, many thanks for your great work with this tool :)
El 26/05/2014 21:22, Ask Hjorth Larsen asklar...@gmail.com escribió:

 Hello

 Daniel: Sorry for the late reply.  gtxml presently assumes that
 strings by default should be valid xml, which was not the case in
 previous revisions.  This probably explains the difference.  Back in
 the days I don't think there were translator_credits strings in the
 docs, so this change could be made without getting into trouble -
 something which clearly isn't the case anymore.  It's a simple matter
 to recognize the translator credits strings though.

 So in general: gtxml is not only meant for the GNOME docs, it's
 supposed to be a bit more generalist.  An option or mode could be
 written (without much trouble at all) specifically for GNOME docs to
 weed out known false positives.  If a powerful being confirms that a
 gtxml check is desired for the GNOME docs (and by powerful I mean
 someone who has the rights/expertise/etc. to get things to run on the
 server) then I will be glad to write a special mode.

 Regarding the placeholders: I don't know how to completely generally
 recognize a placeholder tag.  I.e. whether, upon seeing a tag, it has
 to exist in the translation as well or not.  For a placeholder the
 answer is yes.  For another tag the answer is typically no.

 Best regards
 Ask

 2014-05-13 11:33 GMT+02:00 Daniel Mustieles García 
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:
  As I've commented to Christian Kirbach in private mail, when I generated
 the
  reports before a new stable release, I didn't get this kind of errors, so
  I'm really confused about what is happening. The only difference I see is
  that I used to generate them under Ubuntu 12, and now I'm using Debian...
  maybe it's due to Python versions? I'm installing a virtual machine to
  investigate it...
 
  Anyway... simply ignoring the translator-credits line would be enough to
  have good reports. Media links are not used at all in the PO files, so it
  doesn't matter how you translate them; about placeholders, they should
  placed in the right place, as they often indicate the kind of license or
 the
  name of the program, so they should be, at least, the same in the
 translated
  and in the original string (but not in the same order).
 
  Thanks to all of you for your comments (and special thanks to Ask for
 taking
  care of this :) )
 
  Cheers!
 
 
  2014-05-09 19:44 GMT+02:00 Rūdolfs Mazurs rudolfs.maz...@gmail.com:
 
  Pk, 2014.05.09. 16:51 +, Rafael Ferreira rakstīja:
   If someone that knows python3 could patch pyg3t to fix this, I think
   it would be a great tool for this XML validation... Someone?
 
  specifically in translator-credits strings, the e-mail is often put in
  angle brackets, which is not a valid XML.
 
  If the translator-credits string is parsed with XML, that IS a bug.
  Otherwise just skip the translator-credits string in the xml check.
 
  --
  Rūdolfs Mazurs rudolfs.maz...@gmail.com
 
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-26 Thread Ask Hjorth Larsen
Hello

Daniel: Sorry for the late reply.  gtxml presently assumes that
strings by default should be valid xml, which was not the case in
previous revisions.  This probably explains the difference.  Back in
the days I don't think there were translator_credits strings in the
docs, so this change could be made without getting into trouble -
something which clearly isn't the case anymore.  It's a simple matter
to recognize the translator credits strings though.

So in general: gtxml is not only meant for the GNOME docs, it's
supposed to be a bit more generalist.  An option or mode could be
written (without much trouble at all) specifically for GNOME docs to
weed out known false positives.  If a powerful being confirms that a
gtxml check is desired for the GNOME docs (and by powerful I mean
someone who has the rights/expertise/etc. to get things to run on the
server) then I will be glad to write a special mode.

Regarding the placeholders: I don't know how to completely generally
recognize a placeholder tag.  I.e. whether, upon seeing a tag, it has
to exist in the translation as well or not.  For a placeholder the
answer is yes.  For another tag the answer is typically no.

Best regards
Ask

2014-05-13 11:33 GMT+02:00 Daniel Mustieles García daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:
 As I've commented to Christian Kirbach in private mail, when I generated the
 reports before a new stable release, I didn't get this kind of errors, so
 I'm really confused about what is happening. The only difference I see is
 that I used to generate them under Ubuntu 12, and now I'm using Debian...
 maybe it's due to Python versions? I'm installing a virtual machine to
 investigate it...

 Anyway... simply ignoring the translator-credits line would be enough to
 have good reports. Media links are not used at all in the PO files, so it
 doesn't matter how you translate them; about placeholders, they should
 placed in the right place, as they often indicate the kind of license or the
 name of the program, so they should be, at least, the same in the translated
 and in the original string (but not in the same order).

 Thanks to all of you for your comments (and special thanks to Ask for taking
 care of this :) )

 Cheers!


 2014-05-09 19:44 GMT+02:00 Rūdolfs Mazurs rudolfs.maz...@gmail.com:

 Pk, 2014.05.09. 16:51 +, Rafael Ferreira rakstīja:
  If someone that knows python3 could patch pyg3t to fix this, I think
  it would be a great tool for this XML validation... Someone?

 specifically in translator-credits strings, the e-mail is often put in
 angle brackets, which is not a valid XML.

 If the translator-credits string is parsed with XML, that IS a bug.
 Otherwise just skip the translator-credits string in the xml check.

 --
 Rūdolfs Mazurs rudolfs.maz...@gmail.com

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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-13 Thread Daniel Mustieles García
As I've commented to Christian Kirbach in private mail, when I generated
the reports before a new stable release, I didn't get this kind of errors,
so I'm really confused about what is happening. The only difference I see
is that I used to generate them under Ubuntu 12, and now I'm using
Debian... maybe it's due to Python versions? I'm installing a virtual
machine to investigate it...

Anyway... simply ignoring the translator-credits line would be enough to
have good reports. Media links are not used at all in the PO files, so it
doesn't matter how you translate them; about placeholders, they should
placed in the right place, as they often indicate the kind of license or
the name of the program, so they should be, at least, the same in the
translated and in the original string (but not in the same order).

Thanks to all of you for your comments (and special thanks to Ask for
taking care of this :) )

Cheers!


2014-05-09 19:44 GMT+02:00 Rūdolfs Mazurs rudolfs.maz...@gmail.com:

 Pk, 2014.05.09. 16:51 +, Rafael Ferreira rakstīja:
  If someone that knows python3 could patch pyg3t to fix this, I think
  it would be a great tool for this XML validation... Someone?

 specifically in translator-credits strings, the e-mail is often put in
 angle brackets, which is not a valid XML.

 If the translator-credits string is parsed with XML, that IS a bug.
 Otherwise just skip the translator-credits string in the xml check.

 --
 Rūdolfs Mazurs rudolfs.maz...@gmail.com

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gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Ekaterina Gerasimova
Hi all, the gnome-devel-docs module is now shown in
developer.gnome.org live from git, not from release tarballs. This
means that if the XML validation is broken in any of the files or a
translation, a few hours after the commit, it will be broken on the
website.

I would appreciate it if anyone working on translations could verify
that their commit does not break validation.

In docs, we just run make after making the changes/applying the
patch, but I'm not sure how that would fit into the translation
workflow. If anyone has better suggestions, please speak up.

Having said that, there is a lot of work being done on gnome-user-docs
right now, so you may want to not translate it for a few more months.

Happy translating,
Kat
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Rafael Ferreira
Ekaterina,

Rather than rely on the carefulness of the translators (which will possibly
fail at some point and a few times), isn't it possible to implement some
kind of verification before pushing from the module to the website? My idea
would be something like: schedule the pushes to website and before doing
so, run the XML validation, and if it fails, do not push to website - and
notify (the maintainer?). -- i'm not a developer, just throwing ideas.

Cheers,
Rafael Ferreira


2014-05-09 10:05 GMT-03:00 Ekaterina Gerasimova kittykat3...@gmail.com:

 Hi all, the gnome-devel-docs module is now shown in
 developer.gnome.org live from git, not from release tarballs. This
 means that if the XML validation is broken in any of the files or a
 translation, a few hours after the commit, it will be broken on the
 website.

 I would appreciate it if anyone working on translations could verify
 that their commit does not break validation.

 In docs, we just run make after making the changes/applying the
 patch, but I'm not sure how that would fit into the translation
 workflow. If anyone has better suggestions, please speak up.

 Having said that, there is a lot of work being done on gnome-user-docs
 right now, so you may want to not translate it for a few more months.

 Happy translating,
 Kat
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Daniel Mustieles García
Hi,

Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml [1]?

This is the tool I use to periodically check XML syntax from PO files, to
detecttypos in tags or not properly closed tags in PO files, so running it
before pushing changes into Git could help us to avoid this kind of
problems.

My 2 cents :-)

[1] https://launchpad.net/pyg3t


2014-05-09 17:02 GMT+02:00 Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com:

 Ekaterina,

 Rather than rely on the carefulness of the translators (which will
 possibly fail at some point and a few times), isn't it possible to
 implement some kind of verification before pushing from the module to the
 website? My idea would be something like: schedule the pushes to website
 and before doing so, run the XML validation, and if it fails, do not push
 to website - and notify (the maintainer?). -- i'm not a developer, just
 throwing ideas.

 Cheers,
 Rafael Ferreira


 2014-05-09 10:05 GMT-03:00 Ekaterina Gerasimova kittykat3...@gmail.com:

 Hi all, the gnome-devel-docs module is now shown in
 developer.gnome.org live from git, not from release tarballs. This
 means that if the XML validation is broken in any of the files or a
 translation, a few hours after the commit, it will be broken on the
 website.

 I would appreciate it if anyone working on translations could verify
 that their commit does not break validation.

 In docs, we just run make after making the changes/applying the
 patch, but I'm not sure how that would fit into the translation
 workflow. If anyone has better suggestions, please speak up.

 Having said that, there is a lot of work being done on gnome-user-docs
 right now, so you may want to not translate it for a few more months.

 Happy translating,
 Kat
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Alexandre Franke
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Daniel Mustieles García
daniel.mustie...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

Hi,

 Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml [1]?

Are there any false positives?

-- 
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Daniel Mustieles García
No AFAIK, but I'm not 100% about it.

Cc'ing Ask, maintainer of pyg3t, to hear his oppinion about this question.
El 09/05/2014 17:37, Alexandre Franke alexandre.fra...@gmail.com
escribió:

 On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,

 Hi,

  Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml [1]?

 Are there any false positives?

 --
 Alexandre Franke
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Rafael Ferreira
The only false positive I know of gtxml is the 'translator-credits' string,
returning exit code 1. For instance:

$ gtxml platform-demos.master.pt_BR.po
At line 23: not well-formed (invalid token)
---
#. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
msgctxt _
msgid translator-credits
msgstr Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013




2014-05-09 15:49 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García 
daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 No AFAIK, but I'm not 100% about it.

 Cc'ing Ask, maintainer of pyg3t, to hear his oppinion about this question.
 El 09/05/2014 17:37, Alexandre Franke alexandre.fra...@gmail.com
 escribió:

  On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,

 Hi,

  Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml [1]?

 Are there any false positives?

 --
 Alexandre Franke
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Daniel Mustieles García
Maybe it is because of the newline character? Translator credits should be
in one line per credit
El 09/05/2014 18:01, Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com escribió:

 The only false positive I know of gtxml is the 'translator-credits'
 string, returning exit code 1. For instance:

 $ gtxml platform-demos.master.pt_BR.po
 At line 23: not well-formed (invalid token)
 ---
 #. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
 msgctxt _
 msgid translator-credits
  msgstr Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013




 2014-05-09 15:49 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García 
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 No AFAIK, but I'm not 100% about it.

 Cc'ing Ask, maintainer of pyg3t, to hear his oppinion about this question.
 El 09/05/2014 17:37, Alexandre Franke alexandre.fra...@gmail.com
 escribió:

  On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,

 Hi,

  Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml
 [1]?

 Are there any false positives?

 --
 Alexandre Franke
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Rafael Ferreira
No, it is a false positive. My example had only one translator. But here is
another example, now with two translators in translator-credits:

$ gtxml ~/Downloads//optimization-guide.master.pt_BR.po
At line 24: not well-formed (invalid token)
---
#. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
msgctxt _
msgid translator-credits
msgstr 
Enrico Nicoletto live...@gmail.com, 2012\n
Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013


If someone that knows python3 could patch pyg3t to fix this, I think it
would be a great tool for this XML validation... Someone?




2014-05-09 16:40 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García 
daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 Maybe it is because of the newline character? Translator credits should be
 in one line per credit
 El 09/05/2014 18:01, Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com escribió:

 The only false positive I know of gtxml is the 'translator-credits'
 string, returning exit code 1. For instance:

 $ gtxml platform-demos.master.pt_BR.po
 At line 23: not well-formed (invalid token)
 ---
 #. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
 msgctxt _
 msgid translator-credits
  msgstr Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013




 2014-05-09 15:49 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García 
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 No AFAIK, but I'm not 100% about it.

 Cc'ing Ask, maintainer of pyg3t, to hear his oppinion about this
 question.
 El 09/05/2014 17:37, Alexandre Franke alexandre.fra...@gmail.com
 escribió:

  On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,

 Hi,

  Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml
 [1]?

 Are there any false positives?

 --
 Alexandre Franke
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Daniel Mustieles García
Pyg3t's maintainer is in Cc (Ask) so maybe he is the best option to fix it
;-)
El 09/05/2014 18:51, Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com escribió:

 No, it is a false positive. My example had only one translator. But here
 is another example, now with two translators in translator-credits:

 $ gtxml ~/Downloads//optimization-guide.master.pt_BR.po
 At line 24: not well-formed (invalid token)
 ---
 #. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
 msgctxt _
 msgid translator-credits
 msgstr 
 Enrico Nicoletto live...@gmail.com, 2012\n
 Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013


 If someone that knows python3 could patch pyg3t to fix this, I think it
 would be a great tool for this XML validation... Someone?




 2014-05-09 16:40 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García 
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 Maybe it is because of the newline character? Translator credits should
 be in one line per credit
 El 09/05/2014 18:01, Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com escribió:

 The only false positive I know of gtxml is the 'translator-credits'
 string, returning exit code 1. For instance:

 $ gtxml platform-demos.master.pt_BR.po
 At line 23: not well-formed (invalid token)
 ---
 #. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
 msgctxt _
 msgid translator-credits
  msgstr Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013




 2014-05-09 15:49 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García 
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 No AFAIK, but I'm not 100% about it.

 Cc'ing Ask, maintainer of pyg3t, to hear his oppinion about this
 question.
 El 09/05/2014 17:37, Alexandre Franke alexandre.fra...@gmail.com
 escribió:

  On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,

 Hi,

  Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml
 [1]?

 Are there any false positives?

 --
 Alexandre Franke
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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Rūdolfs Mazurs
Pk, 2014.05.09. 16:51 +, Rafael Ferreira rakstīja:
 If someone that knows python3 could patch pyg3t to fix this, I think
 it would be a great tool for this XML validation... Someone?

specifically in translator-credits strings, the e-mail is often put in
angle brackets, which is not a valid XML.

If the translator-credits string is parsed with XML, that IS a bug.
Otherwise just skip the translator-credits string in the xml check.

-- 
Rūdolfs Mazurs rudolfs.maz...@gmail.com

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Re: gnome-devel-docs on developer.gnome.org

2014-05-09 Thread Ask Hjorth Larsen
Hello everyone

First of all I am very willing to implement a mode in gtxml
specifically for this.

Fixing the translator-credits issue is obviously very easy.

I can make it so that gtxml will only complain about syntax errors,
i.e. strings that are not accepted by the xml parser.  This requires
that all msgids and msgstrs - except the header and translator-credits
- can be assumed to be XML.

The files also contain media links to images/videos with their md5
hashes.  Perhaps a special check should be made for those, since they
are probably not required to be legal XML.  Are there other classes of
strings to be aware of?  Is all this acceptable?  Also, who could
actually approve this and make it run on the server?

Right now gtxml can to various extents be smarter and detect more
errors - e.g. whether unexpected XML tags are used.  But some
translators tend to insert their own little xml things when they want,
which is fine by itself, but can lead to false positives when
attempting to be too smart.

What happens with placeholder tags (such as _:ulink-1, _:ulink-2 and
so on), how bad is it if those are messed up?

Of course the ultimate authority on whether the translations are valid
or not is the software that compiles the documentation.  So another
possible filter would be to actually compile the darn thing as soon as
it gets checked in and use that as a test.

Best regards
Ask

2014-05-09 19:40 GMT+02:00 Daniel Mustieles García daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:
 Pyg3t's maintainer is in Cc (Ask) so maybe he is the best option to fix it
 ;-)

 El 09/05/2014 18:51, Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com escribió:

 No, it is a false positive. My example had only one translator. But here
 is another example, now with two translators in translator-credits:

 $ gtxml ~/Downloads//optimization-guide.master.pt_BR.po
 At line 24: not well-formed (invalid token)
 ---
 #. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
 msgctxt _
 msgid translator-credits
 msgstr 
 Enrico Nicoletto live...@gmail.com, 2012\n
 Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013


 If someone that knows python3 could patch pyg3t to fix this, I think it
 would be a great tool for this XML validation... Someone?




 2014-05-09 16:40 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 Maybe it is because of the newline character? Translator credits should
 be in one line per credit

 El 09/05/2014 18:01, Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com escribió:

 The only false positive I know of gtxml is the 'translator-credits'
 string, returning exit code 1. For instance:

 $ gtxml platform-demos.master.pt_BR.po
 At line 23: not well-formed (invalid token)
 ---
 #. Put one translator per line, in the form NAME EMAIL, YEAR1, YEAR2
 msgctxt _
 msgid translator-credits
 msgstr Rafael Ferreira rafael.f...@gmail.com, 2013




 2014-05-09 15:49 GMT+00:00 Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com:

 No AFAIK, but I'm not 100% about it.

 Cc'ing Ask, maintainer of pyg3t, to hear his oppinion about this
 question.

 El 09/05/2014 17:37, Alexandre Franke alexandre.fra...@gmail.com
 escribió:

 On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Daniel Mustieles García
 daniel.mustie...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,

 Hi,

  Could we implement a pre-commit hook to check XML syntax with gtxml
  [1]?

 Are there any false positives?

 --
 Alexandre Franke
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