Re: Will RMS be back to Programming now?
On 11/8/19 2:44 AM, Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss) wrote: > On 2019-11-07 22:58, Jean Louis wrote: >> Dear Nala, >> >> Greetings to China. I am eating here with chopsticks... >> >> * Nala Ginrut [2019-11-07 15:03]: >>> >>> Hi Jean! >>> >>> Yes, I totally agreed. And I actually meant RMS's health status, >>> personally I don't think the fame was hurt by the recent comments >>> misinterpretation or even the previous personal activity years ago. >>> If his health status is permitted, then maybe he can do some advocating >>> work by simple coding work, it's kind of advertisement. ;-) >> >> His programming was significant for the inception of GNU operating >> system, as there were not many people to do it except of RMS. > > There is a lot more to RMS than just GNU. > > RMS was involved in Common Lisp; he was part of the initial Common Lisp > group:[1] > > In the 1970's, he evidently developed a Lisp dialect in which 0 was > false and the empty list, rather than the symbol nil.[2] > This might have helped inoculate Stallman against later having allergic > reactions to C, which was adopted in a major way by GNU. > > RMS invented something called phantom stacks[3]; I can recommend this paper > for the writing quality alone. Any Lisp-head will appreciate it. > > RMS co-authored some papers in the 1970's with Sussman and Steele. > > "He was special," recalls Gerald Sussman, an MIT faculty member and > former > AI Lab researcher. Describing Stallman as a "clear thinker and a clear > designer," Sussman employed Stallman as a research-project assistant > beginning in 1975. The project was complex, involving the creation of an > AI program that could analyze circuit diagrams. Not only did it involve > an expert's command of Lisp, a programming language built specifically > for AI applications, but it also required an understanding of how a human > might approach the same task."[4] > > --- > [1] https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/HOPL2-Uncut.pdf, P. 39 > [2] https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/HOPL2-Uncut.pdf, P. 63 > [3] https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6331 > [4] "Free as in Freedom", Chapter 6, > https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch06.html > Richard is a brilliant coder... Ive seen it with my own eyes. His understanding of computer systems, and coding is deep and broad. If he had to, he could probably step into any of the current projects and pick them up himself. There are no better coders -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
Re: Will RMS be back to Programming now?
On 2019-11-07 22:58, Jean Louis wrote: Dear Nala, Greetings to China. I am eating here with chopsticks... * Nala Ginrut [2019-11-07 15:03]: Hi Jean! Yes, I totally agreed. And I actually meant RMS's health status, personally I don't think the fame was hurt by the recent comments misinterpretation or even the previous personal activity years ago. If his health status is permitted, then maybe he can do some advocating work by simple coding work, it's kind of advertisement. ;-) His programming was significant for the inception of GNU operating system, as there were not many people to do it except of RMS. There is a lot more to RMS than just GNU. RMS was involved in Common Lisp; he was part of the initial Common Lisp group:[1] In the 1970's, he evidently developed a Lisp dialect in which 0 was false and the empty list, rather than the symbol nil.[2] This might have helped inoculate Stallman against later having allergic reactions to C, which was adopted in a major way by GNU. RMS invented something called phantom stacks[3]; I can recommend this paper for the writing quality alone. Any Lisp-head will appreciate it. RMS co-authored some papers in the 1970's with Sussman and Steele. "He was special," recalls Gerald Sussman, an MIT faculty member and former AI Lab researcher. Describing Stallman as a "clear thinker and a clear designer," Sussman employed Stallman as a research-project assistant beginning in 1975. The project was complex, involving the creation of an AI program that could analyze circuit diagrams. Not only did it involve an expert's command of Lisp, a programming language built specifically for AI applications, but it also required an understanding of how a human might approach the same task."[4] --- [1] https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/HOPL2-Uncut.pdf, P. 39 [2] https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/HOPL2-Uncut.pdf, P. 63 [3] https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6331 [4] "Free as in Freedom", Chapter 6, https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch06.html
Re: Will RMS be back to Programming now?
Dear Nala, Greetings to China. I am eating here with chopsticks... * Nala Ginrut [2019-11-07 15:03]: > > Hi Jean! > > Yes, I totally agreed. And I actually meant RMS's health status, > personally I don't think the fame was hurt by the recent comments > misinterpretation or even the previous personal activity years ago. > If his health status is permitted, then maybe he can do some advocating > work by simple coding work, it's kind of advertisement. ;-) His programming was significant for the inception of GNU operating system, as there were not many people to do it except of RMS. By calling and inviting contributors to join his position changed, and from simple programming RMS became probably, it is my impression, supervisor of the GNU project. Then some larger GNU software became more or less self managed, or have formed into larger groups, such as Gnome for example and position of RMS changed into planner and policy maker. Yet most important work is in fundemental underlying free software philosophy which is what RMS is mostly known for. Today people are well aware that software projects include so many people. Who wrote the software is not always prominently displayed. It may matter little to public to know the name of a programmer. Those are all my personal impressions. What matters are speeches and connections, RMS does the advocacy on much higher level, first there is FSF that has most important campaigns and sponsoring such: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/ RMS is founder, he initiated majority of activities and manner of conducting those activities within the FSF, and together with other people who have agreed on fundamental principles, the organization is working by motivation of duty by those people who feel they have the duty to help, and also by those who could be motivated by money and are paid to help. Stallman does speeches in remote areas, such as in Russia in August 2019. Or he goes into the heart of Microsoft and vouches for better policy of free software licenses within Github.com. That type of fundamental work is most important. He has good connections and thus the power to "close" new allies and gain their acknowledgement and approval for free software. That is done on higher level than solely coding. It shall not be underestimated how important is the work of advocacy. GNU project and the FSF that is founded on GNU free software philosophy are higher level of organizations, they are based on philosophy and not necessarily on the hierarchy of employed people. Free software philosophy, when understood by somebody, is making the person vouch for free software and human rights, be it that person is member of FSF or contributor to GNU operating system or not. Multiple organizations came to existence to promote free software philosophy and user rights. That type of organization is motivated by duty to spread the free software philosophy and spread software for reasons of free software philosophy, and highest motivation is duty and not the money. If one would be only motivated by programming "open source", one is motivated maybe by quality software, but does not regard importance of free software philosophy. It does not matter much for as long as software is free, but such governance of software by motivation of being better software does not spreed the word about human rights and freedom in computing, it is weak and fragile. Thus promoting GNU project with programming alone, would not be the GNU project. Stallman as a programmer would probably cause more programmers to contribute, but Stallman as philosopher and human rights advocate is causing more philosopher and more advocate to join. > At least in China, RMS is still greatly respected by technical people. Of > course, there're proprietory supporters don't like him. Maybe it's > because it is a different culture, when I told the so-called RMS > scandal to my Chinese friends, they thought it's a joke. Since in our > culture, one should be judged by the contributions that one ever > made. After experenced the Cultural Revolution [0], Chinese people are > utterly cautious about the judgement to personal life and > opinions. Because these are used for politically attacking to > individuals. Of course, and thank you for telling your opinion as being there in China. GNU project and free software philosophy is now of planetary importance. The public shamings for reasons that RMS expressed opinions or jokes, and the call-out or cancel culture is phenomena that got some space in media in some of Western countries, and even there it is not generally approved. Mob justice is punishable by law in many countries. And many will find it as you said "it's a joke". > BTW, Cultural Revolution caused over million people died or suicide by > ethical pressure, but the indirect killers thought they were doing > ethical correction, and in the beginning, people thought it was funny. > > Frankly, I felt funny when I first
Re: Will RMS be back to Programming now?
There is importance in the practice of software: the creation there-of. RMS' clout came from the software work he did. Also programming is fun. Clout is lost when one moves to far from the corpus of it all. People say "well he USED to be a programmer". People hold programmers in higher regard than speech-givers. Programmers who /are/ speech-givers are held in regard, but as one moves away from the practice of the things then people say things. RMS speaks still of how programming is fun (I agree). The whole Free Software movement is built on the desire to tinker, from the very beginning, and a rejection of the controls on that wrought from the 1975 copyright act. RMS should perhaps do both speaking and hacking now, but getting back to the roots /will/ give more weight to any speeches. But... well he should really do what brings him happiness. Which would be a third thing maybe. Alot of people just use RMS I think, and the money his organization got, and the clout it brought. Then they turned on him when they thought he was worth more gone. On 2019-11-05 22:38, Jean Louis wrote: * Nala Ginrut [2019-11-05 17:03]: Seriously, if RMS can do some small coding work with existing GNU packages occasionally, maybe it's a good chance for advocating the package. The famous people attracts more eyes, even if some people don't like him. But I'm not sure if his current status is suitable for that advocating work. Nala, how are you? In my opinion, RMS's most important work are speeches and relations. Today, when GNU systems already exist in the world, general software is not any more priority. There are priorities for specific software like those for video communication or liberating BIOSes, or liberating phones with free systems and so on. I see it most important to spread free software philosophy. Now is not that much of fight to make free operating system, but there is still a work to enlighten those areas of the world where free software is not known. Where people need to understand about users' rights and freedom. Stallman is respected world wide. Nothing of those comments and media rumors is changing it. Majority of people of today are finally not that stupid, celebrities are always targets of rumors, it does not change anything. Who said what... who cares really. Most important work for Stallman now are his connections to various opinion leaders and closing (in sales terminology) parties to more freedom for users. Dr. Richard Stallman contacts opinion leaders and forwards free software: https://www.zdnet.com/article/free-software-advocate-richard-stallman-spoke-at-microsoft-research-this-week/ In that case, he did advocacy to Microsoft to teach him to straighten policies on licenses in Github.com -- makes sense, many developers are placing vague licenses, or missing a license, or release it as apparently free software but restrict it to religious sense to use it only for "good purposes" as given by God, thus rendering it non-free. There are many issues with the Github, so his points were totally valid. That is advocacy for free software. He starts from the head, not from the tail. Now you can imagine, not everybody can walk into Microsoft and speak about free software. Stallman can do that. That is position of power and position of a lot of connection, respect and honor, it is all based on previous work. He teaches the world on free software: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCh8EcBrptA Dr. Richard Stallman provides policies and planning for GNU project, and he has done so successfuly for many years, and he still does, nothing changed. His status or position did not change. Not being president of the FSF in my opinion does not change anything, FSF is loyal to free software philosophy and continues its work just as usual. No strategy changed neither for FSF nor GNU. There is nothing that changed direction of the FSF or its purposes or goals. RMS did not change his attitude not even towards those few people from Guix leadership and other members of their Thoughtpolice Squad[1] who did everything possible to defame and slander him. RMS makes advocacy on much higher level and he always did so, since the inception of the GNU project. He need not advocate a simple piece of software. Creation of GPL caused whole range of free software to existence. At the time it was not possible for Stallman to know that could or would happen. But effect is more than good. Now people and companies are releasing software under the GPL license without even knowing who is Stallman or what was his fundamental work. I hope you got the idea of the type of the fundamental work that RMS have always been doing and is still doing today. Jean Footnotes: [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtpolice
RMSʼs videos (was: Will RMS be back to Programming now?)
gameonli...@redchan.it wrote: > The video in Putins Russia > Putins Russia > Putins ??? > The video in … Russia this year was very good; you should put that on the GNU > page Which one? RMS gave several speeches during his last visit to Russia: two in SPb and one in Moscow, IIRC. > also the biography video he did this year also was spectacular. Together they > really explain everything from top to bottom, and concisely. Again, a specific link would be apt. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Will RMS be back to Programming now?
I was wondering; will RMS be back to programming now, for the gnu system, and other things perhaps? I think all us hackers missed him. People kept saying "he doesn't program anymore, what has he done lately" etc. Will he do it now? And at an ever increasing clip? I totally relate to everything he says on the talks he's given (I've been hacking free-software videogames for almost 2 decades now, plus system software and all that)... I only recently really begun to read his ideas (I knew the free software points, but to read the history he gives of everything) and watch the videos. The video in Putins Russia this year was very good; you should put that on the GNU page, also the biography video he did this year also was spectacular. Together they really explain everything from top to bottom, and concisely. So, will RMS be /back/ after a decade(s) or so on the road now? Back with his hacker friends he's created?
