Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
I've seen several threads over the years that a user wanted to make an SX based on the current account balance. I'm glad to see the code exists, and hope to see it finally included. I'll make my way through that PR discussion and chime in once I have a grasp of the nuances, but for now, I'd say this will also be very useful for envelope budgeting. This was my first hangup trying to implement it. I've also seen a use case of someone calculating their charitable donations based on the balance of some accounts at a certain point in time, so grabbing that automatically would be nice. This might turn out to be 'build it and they will come' sort of code. People may find uses for it that aren't anticipated yet. Regards, Adrien On 9/16/20 12:08 PM, Jean Laroche wrote: Note that there is a pull request that adds the ability to use the current balance of an account in a scheduled transaction. https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/682 This allows setting up a scheduled transaction for your mortgage payment that's smart enough to compute the interest owned based on the current balance of the mortgage account. So for example, if you make an extra payment, the scheduled transactions created by the current "Mortgage & Loan Repayment Assistant" will all be off. But if you setup your schedule transaction to use the current balance to compute the interest owned, the correct interest will be calculated no matter your prepayments etc. That pull request has been sitting on the list since April, as the powers that be don't seem to think it's a priority or even a good idea to merge it into maint or master. Check it out, and voice your interest if you think that would be useful to you. Jean ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
Yes, the PR is indeed TL;DR. But the gist of it is indeed that the current balance is a variable that you can use in your SX. Jean On 9/16/20 11:48 AM, David Carlson wrote: Regarding https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/682, for me, as a user, I consider it TL;DR. I will comment, tho, a simple step or incremental improvement like making the current account balance available as a variable for SX's would be usable for that specific SX type and generally for users to use in construction of custom SX's. On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 12:19 PM Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: On 9/16/2020 12:52 PM, David Carlson wrote: Unfortunately, it is not flexible enough to handle modern calculations involving daily interest calculations, prepayments, and other variations, but it can still be used to set up a reasonably good estimated split between principal and interest with or without escrow or insurance, but to keep an accurate running balance it is usually necessary to manually adjust It is actually a "tricky" problem if needing to exactly match the bank's amortization table. And in any case will need at least an annual adjustment for changes to the escrow component << which if anything, is even nastier even after the "what it has to cover for the year*" has been entered (the new RE tax and insurance). There are simply too many places where you algorithm and what the bank used might make different assumptions, where rounding takes place, significant digits used, how the final payment to be, etc.** Michael D Novack * The problem is that NOT simply "enough to cover those payments" (over the year) but to be such that the account NEVER goes below zero or a specified safety amount at any time during the year. Likely best handled by a "trial and error" algorithm to determine the least per payment amount that will accomplish that. It is why the amount appears to jump around so wildly year to year. ** For that reason, I also used a "trial and error" algorithm for that which produced more than one potential solution for the amortization table, one of which guaranteed to match the bank to the penny << in other words, which had the same payment - escrow component as the bank did >> In other words, knowing the payment the bank claimed was correct, produce the amortization table that matched that . The bank would the table FOR A FEE but hey, I was doing software for a living. -- There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality of the grave. ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
Regarding https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/682, for me, as a user, I consider it TL;DR. I will comment, tho, a simple step or incremental improvement like making the current account balance available as a variable for SX's would be usable for that specific SX type and generally for users to use in construction of custom SX's. On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 12:19 PM Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > On 9/16/2020 12:52 PM, David Carlson wrote: > > Unfortunately, it is not flexible enough to > > handle modern calculations involving daily interest calculations, > > prepayments, and other variations, but it can still be used to set up a > > reasonably good estimated split between principal and interest with or > > without escrow or insurance, but to keep an accurate running balance it > is > > usually necessary to manually adjust > > It is actually a "tricky" problem if needing to exactly match the bank's > amortization table. And in any case will need at least an annual > adjustment for changes to the escrow component << which if anything, is > even nastier even after the "what it has to cover for the year*" has > been entered (the new RE tax and insurance). There are simply too many > places where you algorithm and what the bank used might make different > assumptions, where rounding takes place, significant digits used, how > the final payment to be, etc.** > > Michael D Novack > > * The problem is that NOT simply "enough to cover those payments" (over > the year) but to be such that the account NEVER goes below zero or a > specified safety amount at any time during the year. Likely best handled > by a "trial and error" algorithm to determine the least per payment > amount that will accomplish that. It is why the amount appears to jump > around so wildly year to year. > > ** For that reason, I also used a "trial and error" algorithm for that > which produced more than one potential solution for the amortization > table, one of which guaranteed to match the bank to the penny << in > other words, which had the same payment - escrow component as the bank > did >> In other words, knowing the payment the bank claimed was correct, > produce the amortization table that matched that . The bank would the > table FOR A FEE but hey, I was doing software for a living. > > -- > There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the > equality of the grave. > > ___ > gnucash-devel mailing list > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel > -- David Carlson ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
On 9/16/2020 12:52 PM, David Carlson wrote: Unfortunately, it is not flexible enough to handle modern calculations involving daily interest calculations, prepayments, and other variations, but it can still be used to set up a reasonably good estimated split between principal and interest with or without escrow or insurance, but to keep an accurate running balance it is usually necessary to manually adjust It is actually a "tricky" problem if needing to exactly match the bank's amortization table. And in any case will need at least an annual adjustment for changes to the escrow component << which if anything, is even nastier even after the "what it has to cover for the year*" has been entered (the new RE tax and insurance). There are simply too many places where you algorithm and what the bank used might make different assumptions, where rounding takes place, significant digits used, how the final payment to be, etc.** Michael D Novack * The problem is that NOT simply "enough to cover those payments" (over the year) but to be such that the account NEVER goes below zero or a specified safety amount at any time during the year. Likely best handled by a "trial and error" algorithm to determine the least per payment amount that will accomplish that. It is why the amount appears to jump around so wildly year to year. ** For that reason, I also used a "trial and error" algorithm for that which produced more than one potential solution for the amortization table, one of which guaranteed to match the bank to the penny << in other words, which had the same payment - escrow component as the bank did >> In other words, knowing the payment the bank claimed was correct, produce the amortization table that matched that . The bank would the table FOR A FEE but hey, I was doing software for a living. -- There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality of the grave. ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
Note that there is a pull request that adds the ability to use the current balance of an account in a scheduled transaction. https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/682 This allows setting up a scheduled transaction for your mortgage payment that's smart enough to compute the interest owned based on the current balance of the mortgage account. So for example, if you make an extra payment, the scheduled transactions created by the current "Mortgage & Loan Repayment Assistant" will all be off. But if you setup your schedule transaction to use the current balance to compute the interest owned, the correct interest will be calculated no matter your prepayments etc. That pull request has been sitting on the list since April, as the powers that be don't seem to think it's a priority or even a good idea to merge it into maint or master. Check it out, and voice your interest if you think that would be useful to you. Jean On 9/16/20 9:52 AM, David Carlson wrote: In release 2.6.19, which I am still using, it is found in the menu tree in the location Christopher Lam described. The help manual section for Account Tree > Actions > Scheduled Transactions > Mortgage & Loan Repayment... refers to a section called Mortgage & Loan Repayment Assistant which describes how it works. There used to be a reference to a section on the website about using variables in scheduled transactions, but I cannot find it today. This tool works fine as far as it goes, to set up a traditional mortgage repayment scheduled transaction following the calculation methods traditionally used in the US. Unfortunately, it is not flexible enough to handle modern calculations involving daily interest calculations, prepayments, and other variations, but it can still be used to set up a reasonably good estimated split between principal and interest with or without escrow or insurance, but to keep an accurate running balance it is usually necessary to manually adjust each payment transaction in GnuCash when the payment is actually made to reflect the actual values reported by the lender. There have been many discussions over the years in the user maillist about these shortcomings. Many users, myself included, would appreciate work on improving this assistant. David Carlson On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:01 AM Christopher Lam wrote: I think it has been renamed to Actions > Scheduled Transactions > Mortgage & Loan Repayment...? Maybe it has hit a raw nerve with some wizards and warlords. On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 14:27, Dean Jagels wrote: There are a couple of old enhancement requests that refer to a "Mortgage Repayment Druid." Is/was this a wizard of sorts? Does it still exist? The House Mortgate How-To in the doc's makes no mention of such a thing. Thanks, Dean ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
In release 2.6.19, which I am still using, it is found in the menu tree in the location Christopher Lam described. The help manual section for Account Tree > Actions > Scheduled Transactions > Mortgage & Loan Repayment... refers to a section called Mortgage & Loan Repayment Assistant which describes how it works. There used to be a reference to a section on the website about using variables in scheduled transactions, but I cannot find it today. This tool works fine as far as it goes, to set up a traditional mortgage repayment scheduled transaction following the calculation methods traditionally used in the US. Unfortunately, it is not flexible enough to handle modern calculations involving daily interest calculations, prepayments, and other variations, but it can still be used to set up a reasonably good estimated split between principal and interest with or without escrow or insurance, but to keep an accurate running balance it is usually necessary to manually adjust each payment transaction in GnuCash when the payment is actually made to reflect the actual values reported by the lender. There have been many discussions over the years in the user maillist about these shortcomings. Many users, myself included, would appreciate work on improving this assistant. David Carlson On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:01 AM Christopher Lam wrote: > I think it has been renamed to Actions > Scheduled Transactions > Mortgage > & Loan Repayment...? Maybe it has hit a raw nerve with some wizards and > warlords. > > On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 14:27, Dean Jagels wrote: > > > There are a couple of old enhancement requests that refer to a "Mortgage > > Repayment Druid." Is/was this a wizard of sorts? Does it still exist? > > The House Mortgate How-To in the doc's makes no mention of such a thing. > > > > Thanks, > > Dean > > > > > > ___ > > gnucash-devel mailing list > > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel > > > ___ > gnucash-devel mailing list > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel > -- David Carlson ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
Am 16.09.20 um 16:42 schrieb D. via gnucash-devel: > Way back when, computer folks referred to system assistants (such as the new > accounts assistant, or the mortgage setup assistant) as "druids." There was > some obscure reasoning for this. Gnucash originally referred to its > assistants as druids, but abandoned them for normal English terminology a > long time ago. To be more specific, in ancient times the GNOME devs called assistants druids. Frank ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
I think it has been renamed to Actions > Scheduled Transactions > Mortgage & Loan Repayment...? Maybe it has hit a raw nerve with some wizards and warlords. On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 14:27, Dean Jagels wrote: > There are a couple of old enhancement requests that refer to a "Mortgage > Repayment Druid." Is/was this a wizard of sorts? Does it still exist? > The House Mortgate How-To in the doc's makes no mention of such a thing. > > Thanks, > Dean > > > ___ > gnucash-devel mailing list > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel > ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid"
Way back when, computer folks referred to system assistants (such as the new accounts assistant, or the mortgage setup assistant) as "druids." There was some obscure reasoning for this. Gnucash originally referred to its assistants as druids, but abandoned them for normal English terminology a long time ago. No doubt these ancient enhancement requests have languished for as long as they have because working out the details in setting up a mortgage repayment schedule are highly complex, and the return is so minimal. Variations in calculating interest alone pretty much guarantee that predicted values will diverge from the actuality, which force the user to modify those transactions anyway. I personally abandoned using scheduled transactions for loans for this reason. David T. Original Message From: Dean Jagels Sent: Wed Sep 16 10:25:47 EDT 2020 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: [GNC-dev] "Mortgage Repayment Druid" There are a couple of old enhancement requests that refer to a "Mortgage Repayment Druid." Is/was this a wizard of sorts? Does it still exist? The House Mortgate How-To in the doc's makes no mention of such a thing. Thanks, Dean ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
