Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Liz]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:58:20 -0500
Michael or Penny Novack  wrote:

> > It's incredibly complex. And Australians have all been led to
> > believe that we have the most complex tax system on the planet.
> >
> > Liz  
> 
> 
> The reason is that here in the US sales tax is not national. The US
> is a federation of states and commonwealths. You would not be
> surprised if 50 countries had highly different rules about sales tax,
> whether or not had one, what rates and what applied to and we were
> discussing transactions crossing country boundaries. So why does it
> seem surprising with our states.
> 
> We haven't even begun to discuss another level of complexity for the 
> proposed software to deal with. It would also have to be able to be 
> turned off for each state by date range! That's because it is not at
> all unusual for the governor of a state that has sales tax to declare
> a "tax holiday" << to boost business >>
> 
> Michael D Novack
> 

Last century, when it was easier to reach political consensus, state
sales taxes were all abolished. Now the States argue over the carve up
of the pie.
But there are plenty of other taxes to make life exceptionally complex
here, do not worry, the accountants and tax people have plenty to keep
them busy.

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Michael or Penny Novack]

It's incredibly complex. And Australians have all been led to believe
that we have the most complex tax system on the planet.

Liz



The reason is that here in the US sales tax is not national. The US is a 
federation of states and commonwealths. You would not be surprised if 50 
countries had highly different rules about sales tax, whether or not had 
one, what rates and what applied to and we were discussing transactions 
crossing country boundaries. So why does it seem surprising with our states.


We haven't even begun to discuss another level of complexity for the 
proposed software to deal with. It would also have to be able to be 
turned off for each state by date range! That's because it is not at all 
unusual for the governor of a state that has sales tax to declare a "tax 
holiday" << to boost business >>


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[David Carlson]

At least you have the best opera house on the planet.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 5:28 PM Liz  wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:58:08 -0800
> Stan Brown  wrote:
>
> > On 2022-02-28 06:34, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> > > But if not a remote sale, if person living in state A buys
> > > something at a seller in state B (and state B has sales tax)
> > > collected based on that. Now the buyer might still owe sales tax to
> > > state A when bringing the whatever home.
> >
> > The tax the buyer pays to their home state after "importing" goods for
> > personal use is called use tax in every state I've lived in.
> >
> > You didn't mention the case where buyer and seller are in different
> > taxing jurisdictions within the same state. I don't know how other
> > states do it, but when you live in county C in California, go to a
> > dealer in county D in California, and buy a car, the dealer is
> > required to charge sales tax at county C's rate, not county D's.
> > Probably the same is true for boats. For smaller items, you pay at
> > the rate of the seller's county, and there's no credit if you take
> > the goods back to your home in a lower-tax county.
> >
> > > When they pay that on their state return, they can claim
> > > credit for the sales tax (if any) already paid for that thing to
> > > state B.
> >
> > Maybe. Some states don't allow it, or allow it only up to the home
> > state's tax rate.
>
> It's incredibly complex. And Australians have all been led to believe
> that we have the most complex tax system on the planet.
>
> Liz
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-- 
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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Liz]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:58:08 -0800
Stan Brown  wrote:

> On 2022-02-28 06:34, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> > But if not a remote sale, if person living in state A buys
> > something at a seller in state B (and state B has sales tax)
> > collected based on that. Now the buyer might still owe sales tax to
> > state A when bringing the whatever home.  
> 
> The tax the buyer pays to their home state after "importing" goods for
> personal use is called use tax in every state I've lived in.
> 
> You didn't mention the case where buyer and seller are in different
> taxing jurisdictions within the same state. I don't know how other
> states do it, but when you live in county C in California, go to a
> dealer in county D in California, and buy a car, the dealer is
> required to charge sales tax at county C's rate, not county D's.
> Probably the same is true for boats. For smaller items, you pay at
> the rate of the seller's county, and there's no credit if you take
> the goods back to your home in a lower-tax county.
> 
> > When they pay that on their state return, they can claim
> > credit for the sales tax (if any) already paid for that thing to
> > state B.  
> 
> Maybe. Some states don't allow it, or allow it only up to the home
> state's tax rate.

It's incredibly complex. And Australians have all been led to believe
that we have the most complex tax system on the planet. 

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Steve Butler]

As soon as you dream up something that can't occur, the legislative
assistants will incorporate that scenario into new law.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 09:48 Fred Bone  wrote:

> On 28 February 2022 at 10:28, William Prescott said:
>
> > Sebastian,
> >
> > Just to clarify, where the "item changed hands" may not be the seller's
> > location. I use to live just outside the border of a city that charged a
> > sales tax. When purchasing an item from a store within the city, I would
> > pay sales tax if I went into the store, purchased it, and took it home.
> > However, if I went into the store and purchased something that they then
> > delivered to my house, e.g. lumber, there was no sales tax. So the tax
> was
> > based on the delivery address not the seller's location.
>
> Out of idle curiosity ... Is it possible to dream up some complication
> that does *not* occur, somewhere?
>
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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Fred Bone]

On 28 February 2022 at 10:28, William Prescott said:

> Sebastian,
> 
> Just to clarify, where the "item changed hands" may not be the seller's
> location. I use to live just outside the border of a city that charged a
> sales tax. When purchasing an item from a store within the city, I would
> pay sales tax if I went into the store, purchased it, and took it home.
> However, if I went into the store and purchased something that they then
> delivered to my house, e.g. lumber, there was no sales tax. So the tax was
> based on the delivery address not the seller's location.

Out of idle curiosity ... Is it possible to dream up some complication 
that does *not* occur, somewhere?

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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[William Prescott]

Sebastian,

Just to clarify, where the "item changed hands" may not be the seller's 
location. I use to live just outside the border of a city that charged a sales 
tax. When purchasing an item from a store within the city, I would pay sales 
tax if I went into the store, purchased it, and took it home. However, if I 
went into the store and purchased something that they then delivered to my 
house, e.g. lumber, there was no sales tax. So the tax was based on the 
delivery address not the seller's location.

Will

On 2022 Feb 28, at 02-28 08:58:44, Sebastian Naumann  
wrote:

Hi Michael,

for sure, you are right.

If it's not an internet sale, then the purchase was made at the seller's 
location (i.e. where the item exchanged hands) so the seller charges the rate 
at their location.

Have a great day everyone.

Am 2/28/22 um 3:34 PM schrieb Michael or Penny Novack:
> On 2/28/2022 2:50 AM, Sebastian Naumann wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> sorry, but I tend to disagree with your statement that "[...] most states 
>> consider the location of the seller to be the nexus...". Actually the second 
>> part of the statement is correct: Most states are destination based, meaning 
>> the location of the buyer is relevant. There you will have to keep in mind 
>> the economic nexus thresholds as well, meaning if you have x transactions / 
>> $x of Gross sales per a certain period in the destination state, you will 
>> have to register there.
>> 
>> Have a great day and please correct me here if you believe that I am wrong.
> 
> I think that is perhaps confusion more than right/wrong.
> 
> In remote sales (internet, etc.)  it is the location of the buyer.
> 
> But if not a remote sale, if person living in state A buys something at a 
> seller in state B (and state B has sales tax) collected based on that. Now 
> the buyer might still owe sales tax to state A when bringing the whatever 
> home. When they pay that on their state return, they can claim credit for the 
> sales tax (if any) already paid for that thing to state B.
> 
> Living as I do in a state which has sales tax and has a neighboring state 
> that does not, I am of course very familiar with this. People living in my 
> state A close to the border often intentionally shop in state B, especially 
> for small things they can get away with not reporting. It is also why state A 
> has a special way of checking that sales tax is paid on big ticket items like 
> vehicles (proof of sales tax needed for registering the vehicle).
> 
> Michael  Novack
> 
> 
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sebastian Naumann
*US Compliance Manager*



*MERCATORZ INTERNATIONAL GmbH & Co. KG*
Klingholzstr. 7
65189 Wiesbaden

Web: www.mercatorz.com 
E-Mail: naum...@mercatorz.com
PGP Fingerprint: DBCF ED37 6B00 25DE C469 5E0B E6B0 15C4 E292 430E
Tel. (direkt): +49 (0) 611 95 00 96-11
Tel.: +49 (0) 611 95 00 96-00

Sitz: DE-65189 Wiesbaden
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Wiesbaden, HRA 11324

Vertreten durch: MERCATORZ Verwaltungs GmbH
Geschäftsführer: Michael Kempe, Thorsten Wedemann
Sitz: DE-65189 Wiesbaden
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Wiesbaden, HRB 32973

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Re: [GNC] Report unreliable (invalid totals)

[Bruce Irving]

Thanks, guys.
Upon digging deeper, I found that there was still a balance from before I
switched it to place holder.
Bruce

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 4:19 PM Steve Butler  wrote:

> Look for future dated transactions.  I entered some for last December and
> they ended up for next December.  Happens when entering backdated entries
> in January!
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 15:15 David H  wrote:
>
>> Bruce,
>>
>> Have you double-checked the report options to ensure all accounts are
>> selected.  Also maybe try increasing the "Levels of Subaccounts" ?
>>
>> Cheers David H.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 07:22, Bruce Irving  wrote:
>>
>> > I'm using Version: 4.9, Build ID: Flathub 4.9-2 on Peppermint 10 (Ubuntu
>> > 20.04 based).
>> > Looking at the liabilities section of my Balance Sheet
>> > (Liabilities_2022-02-27.png); it showed 1 AP account of -90.68 totaling
>> to
>> > -80.68!
>> > I tried running the report limiting it to only liabilities.  The rest of
>> > the options, except show zero values, were the same for both reports.
>> > (Liabilities_2022-27.html)  Now it shows both payees but the total is
>> stil
>> > $10.00!  and the Total liabilities is -43.18 for both reports.
>> > Bruce
>> > ___
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Re: [GNC] Upgrade to GC 2.6.19 and Finance:Quote 1.51

[James Edmunds]

Dear Bruce


Thank you for your prompt and helpful reply.


To answer your question an extract from perl -V shows :


@INC:

/etc/perl

/usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.26.1

/usr/local/share/perl/5.26.1

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.26

/usr/share/perl5

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.26

/usr/share/perl/5.26

/usr/local/lib/site_perl

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base


So ‘home/perl5/lib/perl5/ ‘ is not part of my INC path .


I decided to correct by running ‘ sudo cpanm Finance::Quote ‘ as this was 
simpler for a perl noob.


I now have a working FQ 1.51 .

Thank you once again.



From: Bruce Schuck 
Sent: 27 February 2022 22:54
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Cc: James Edmunds 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Upgrade to GC 2.6.19 and Finance:Quote 1.51

> From: James Edmunds 

> I have just upgraded from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.

FYI - Ubuntu 22.04LTS will be released in April.

> I then wished to install the latest version of FQ. The command
> ?gnc-fq-update ? is not included in Ubuntu 16.04 or 18.04. So I
> searched the internet for an alternative command. I found ?cpanm
> Finance::Quote ? and ran it . Note by mistake I did not run as sudo ,
> I don?t know whether that matters .

> FQ 1.49 files appear to be in
> /usr/local/share/perl/5.22.1/Finance/Quote

> FQ 1.47 files appear to be in /usr/share/perl5/Finance/Quote

> FQ 1.51 files appear to be in /home/perl5/lib/perl5/Finance/Quote

> Have I installed 1.51 correctly, if not how do I install it and get>
> it working ?

With Perl, "correctly" can be a subjective term. Both cpan and cpanm can
be configured to install Perl Modules in different locations including
the default Perl include path (@INC). My guess is that although cpanm
installed FQ in /home/perl5/lib/perl5/Finance/Quote (is that
/home/perl5/... or /home//...), that directory is not part of
your INC path (what is the output of "perl -V"?). I also would not be
surprised if cpanm did not install some other modules underneath
/home/perl5/lib/perl5.

I would try the following.

Add "export PERL5LIB=/home/perl5/lib/perl5" to your "~/.bashrc" file and
"PERL5LIB=/home/perl5/lib/perl5" /etc/gnucash/environment. Log out and
back in that try gnc-fq-check.

Or run cpanm as root or with the "--sudo" option.

Hope this helps.

- Bruce S.
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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Sebastian Naumann]

Hi Michael,

for sure, you are right.

If it's not an internet sale, then the purchase was made at the seller's 
location (i.e. where the item exchanged hands) so the seller charges the 
rate at their location.


Have a great day everyone.

Am 2/28/22 um 3:34 PM schrieb Michael or Penny Novack:

On 2/28/2022 2:50 AM, Sebastian Naumann wrote:

Hi John,

sorry, but I tend to disagree with your statement that "[...] most 
states consider the location of the seller to be the nexus...". 
Actually the second part of the statement is correct: Most states are 
destination based, meaning the location of the buyer is relevant. 
There you will have to keep in mind the economic nexus thresholds as 
well, meaning if you have x transactions / $x of Gross sales per a 
certain period in the destination state, you will have to register 
there.


Have a great day and please correct me here if you believe that I am 
wrong.


I think that is perhaps confusion more than right/wrong.

In remote sales (internet, etc.)  it is the location of the buyer.

But if not a remote sale, if person living in state A buys something 
at a seller in state B (and state B has sales tax) collected based on 
that. Now the buyer might still owe sales tax to state A when bringing 
the whatever home. When they pay that on their state return, they can 
claim credit for the sales tax (if any) already paid for that thing to 
state B.


Living as I do in a state which has sales tax and has a neighboring 
state that does not, I am of course very familiar with this. People 
living in my state A close to the border often intentionally shop in 
state B, especially for small things they can get away with not 
reporting. It is also why state A has a special way of checking that 
sales tax is paid on big ticket items like vehicles (proof of sales 
tax needed for registering the vehicle).


Michael  Novack


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Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sebastian Naumann
*US Compliance Manager*



*MERCATORZ INTERNATIONAL GmbH & Co. KG*
Klingholzstr. 7
65189 Wiesbaden

Web: www.mercatorz.com 
E-Mail: naum...@mercatorz.com
PGP Fingerprint: DBCF ED37 6B00 25DE C469 5E0B E6B0 15C4 E292 430E
Tel. (direkt): +49 (0) 611 95 00 96-11
Tel.: +49 (0) 611 95 00 96-00

Sitz: DE-65189 Wiesbaden
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Wiesbaden, HRA 11324

Vertreten durch: MERCATORZ Verwaltungs GmbH
Geschäftsführer: Michael Kempe, Thorsten Wedemann
Sitz: DE-65189 Wiesbaden
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Wiesbaden, HRB 32973

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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Stan Brown]

On 2022-02-28 06:34, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> But if not a remote sale, if person living in state A buys something at
> a seller in state B (and state B has sales tax) collected based on that.
> Now the buyer might still owe sales tax to state A when bringing the
> whatever home.

The tax the buyer pays to their home state after "importing" goods for
personal use is called use tax in every state I've lived in.

You didn't mention the case where buyer and seller are in different
taxing jurisdictions within the same state. I don't know how other
states do it, but when you live in county C in California, go to a
dealer in county D in California, and buy a car, the dealer is required
to charge sales tax at county C's rate, not county D's. Probably the
same is true for boats. For smaller items, you pay at the rate of the
seller's county, and there's no credit if you take the goods back to
your home in a lower-tax county.

> When they pay that on their state return, they can claim
> credit for the sales tax (if any) already paid for that thing to state B.

Maybe. Some states don't allow it, or allow it only up to the home
state's tax rate.

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Automatic sales tax

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 2/28/2022 2:50 AM, Sebastian Naumann wrote:

Hi John,

sorry, but I tend to disagree with your statement that "[...] most 
states consider the location of the seller to be the nexus...". 
Actually the second part of the statement is correct: Most states are 
destination based, meaning the location of the buyer is relevant. 
There you will have to keep in mind the economic nexus thresholds as 
well, meaning if you have x transactions / $x of Gross sales per a 
certain period in the destination state, you will have to register there.


Have a great day and please correct me here if you believe that I am 
wrong.


I think that is perhaps confusion more than right/wrong.

In remote sales (internet, etc.)  it is the location of the buyer.

But if not a remote sale, if person living in state A buys something at 
a seller in state B (and state B has sales tax) collected based on that. 
Now the buyer might still owe sales tax to state A when bringing the 
whatever home. When they pay that on their state return, they can claim 
credit for the sales tax (if any) already paid for that thing to state B.


Living as I do in a state which has sales tax and has a neighboring 
state that does not, I am of course very familiar with this. People 
living in my state A close to the border often intentionally shop in 
state B, especially for small things they can get away with not 
reporting. It is also why state A has a special way of checking that 
sales tax is paid on big ticket items like vehicles (proof of sales tax 
needed for registering the vehicle).


Michael  Novack


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