Re: [GNC] MySQL back-end access failed @ MACOS 12 after MySQL server upgrade to 8.0.28

[Neko Chang]

All version of MySQL using  DB name = gnucash, never change.

I have never setup and using SSL in MySQL.
Remote access via SSH tunnel.
Therefore the error message "SSL certificate issue" is strange as me
I will try to search it.

Thanks


Adrien Monteleone  於 2022年3月17日 週四 下午1:09寫道：
>
> As John mentioned, the db name seems incorrect. Did you register the db
> on MacOS?
>
> Error 2026 deals with SSL certificate issues.
>
> A web search should provide some guidance.
>
> Maybe try without SSL to see if that resolves it? Then you can
> troubleshoot the SSL problem.
>
> -
> And again, why do you think you need MySQL? What are you trying to
> accomplish?
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 3/16/22 10:40 PM, Neko Chang wrote:
> > Thank you for the clarification.
> >
> > Hi Adrien
> > I am using MySQL @ FreeBSD remote mainly,
> > MySQL @ MACOS for the issue tested.
> > GNUCASH @ MACOS work fine both MySQL v8.0.23.
> >
> > Hi Josh
> > Either MySQL v8.0.23 or v8.0.28, all parameter
> > same(user/password/database name).
> > Therefore issue caused from libdbi I guess.
> >
> > The issue would not be resolve.
> > I forgot GNUCASH @ MACOS, using GNUCASH @ Ubuntu continue.
> >
> > Regards
> > Neko
> >
> > john  於 2022年3月17日 週四 上午11:13寫道：
> >>
> >> Neko,
> >>
> >> AFAiCT this has nothing to do with macOS but rather that your MySQL server 
> >> doesn't recognize the database name you passed it plus another error, 
> >> number 2026, that GnuCash doesn't know how to handle.
> >>
> >> As a reminder, users using the MySQL or Postgresql backends *must* be 
> >> *expert* database administrators for the respective servers. The GnuCash 
> >> team most emphatically are not and cannot provide any support for database 
> >> server problems. If you are not a MySQL expert then you should use the 
> >> SQLite3 or XML backends which don't require DB Admin skills.
>
> ___
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-- 
Regards,
Wei-Jen Chang
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Re: [GNC] MySQL back-end access failed @ MACOS 12 after MySQL server upgrade to 8.0.28

[Adrien Monteleone]

As John mentioned, the db name seems incorrect. Did you register the db 
on MacOS?


Error 2026 deals with SSL certificate issues.

A web search should provide some guidance.

Maybe try without SSL to see if that resolves it? Then you can 
troubleshoot the SSL problem.


-
And again, why do you think you need MySQL? What are you trying to 
accomplish?


Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 10:40 PM, Neko Chang wrote:

Thank you for the clarification.

Hi Adrien
I am using MySQL @ FreeBSD remote mainly,
MySQL @ MACOS for the issue tested.
GNUCASH @ MACOS work fine both MySQL v8.0.23.

Hi Josh
Either MySQL v8.0.23 or v8.0.28, all parameter
same(user/password/database name).
Therefore issue caused from libdbi I guess.

The issue would not be resolve.
I forgot GNUCASH @ MACOS, using GNUCASH @ Ubuntu continue.

Regards
Neko

john  於 2022年3月17日 週四 上午11:13寫道：


Neko,

AFAiCT this has nothing to do with macOS but rather that your MySQL server 
doesn't recognize the database name you passed it plus another error, number 
2026, that GnuCash doesn't know how to handle.

As a reminder, users using the MySQL or Postgresql backends *must* be *expert* 
database administrators for the respective servers. The GnuCash team most 
emphatically are not and cannot provide any support for database server 
problems. If you are not a MySQL expert then you should use the SQLite3 or XML 
backends which don't require DB Admin skills.


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Re: [GNC] MySQL back-end access failed @ MACOS 12 after MySQL server upgrade to 8.0.28

[Neko Chang]

Thank you for the clarification.

Hi Adrien
I am using MySQL @ FreeBSD remote mainly,
MySQL @ MACOS for the issue tested.
GNUCASH @ MACOS work fine both MySQL v8.0.23.

Hi Josh
Either MySQL v8.0.23 or v8.0.28, all parameter
same(user/password/database name).
Therefore issue caused from libdbi I guess.

The issue would not be resolve.
I forgot GNUCASH @ MACOS, using GNUCASH @ Ubuntu continue.

Regards
Neko

john  於 2022年3月17日 週四 上午11:13寫道：
>
> Neko,
>
> AFAiCT this has nothing to do with macOS but rather that your MySQL server 
> doesn't recognize the database name you passed it plus another error, number 
> 2026, that GnuCash doesn't know how to handle.
>
> As a reminder, users using the MySQL or Postgresql backends *must* be 
> *expert* database administrators for the respective servers. The GnuCash team 
> most emphatically are not and cannot provide any support for database server 
> problems. If you are not a MySQL expert then you should use the SQLite3 or 
> XML backends which don't require DB Admin skills.
>
> Regards
> John Ralls
>
>
> > On Mar 16, 2022, at 6:31 PM, Neko Chang  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All
> > I have no idea how to run on MACOS still.
> > Can help/information for it?
> > Thanks a lot
> >
> >>
> >> Hi gnucash-user
> >>
> >> I had been encounter as subject, can help to resolve?
> >>
> >> Detail:
> >> I have both Gnucash v4.9 in MACOS 12 and Ubuntu 20 and both work fine
> >> @ MySQL 8.0.23
> >> After MySQL upgrade to 8.0.28, Gnucash @ Ubuntu 20 work fine, but
> >> MACOS 12 won't.
> >>
> >> Log as below, generate by
> >> /Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash --debug --extra
> >> --logto stdout
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
> >> provider providers access_method, file, but we're loading for
> >> access_method, mysql. Skipping.
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
> >> provider providers access_method, sqlite3, but we're loading for
> >> access_method, mysql. Skipping.
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend]
> >> Selected provider GnuCash Libdbi (MYSQL) Backend
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: -5:
> >> An invalid name was passed to libdbi
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
> >> GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
> >> processing.
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: 2026:
> >> SSL connection error: unknown error number
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
> >> GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
> >> processing.
> >>* 21:32:54 ERROR 
> >> [GncDbiBackend::session_begin()] Unable to connect
> >> to database 'gnucash'
> >>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::begin] Done running
> >> session_begin on backend
> >>
> >> Root cause version of libdbi maybe I guess.
> >> Package in Ubuntu 20 = 1.9.0
> >> Bundle in Gnucash = 1.8.? (by Google)
> >>
> >> Using package version of libdbi in MACOS possible?
> >> Or work-around/solution/fix at next version?
> >>
> >> Thanks very much.
> > ___
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>


-- 
Regards,
Wei-Jen Chang
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Re: [GNC] Question about Assemblies

[Adrien Monteleone]

If you're looking for 'inventory control/manangement' or 'item tracking' 
by quantity, no, GnuCash can't do it. (out of the box)


Some people have finagled it to do so using user-defined commodity 
accounts, but that seems like more trouble than it is worth.


Inventory management should be done in a separate app and the resulting 
monetary values imported into GnuCash for accounting.


If you just want to track monetary-value of your inventory, yes, 
absolutely, GnuCash can handle that, be it parts, assemblies, etc.


A good accounting reference on manufacturing accounting will show you 
the transaction entries for acquiring the raw material inventory, and 
then moving inventory from raw materials, to work in progress, to 
finished goods, then cost of goods sold and revenue.


Here's a good start: https://www.principlesofaccounting.com/

But there are plenty of others online and in your nearest library. 
Especially consider college texts for basic and 2nd level accounting. 
(usually the first two courses are from the first half and second half 
of the same text)


Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 8:59 PM, Frederick wrote:

Hi there, i am a interested in abandoning my Accounting software and looking to 
see if Gnucash will work for my one person business.

The main issue is that i manufacture items to sell and need software that can 
account for assemblies.  This can go by the name of manufacture/build or 
assembly.  Sage 50 calls this Assembly.

If someone can let me know if builds are easily possible with gnucash and 
direct me to literature on this matter, it would be greatly appreciated.


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Re: [GNC] MySQL back-end access failed @ MACOS 12 after MySQL server upgrade to 8.0.28

[john]

Neko,

AFAiCT this has nothing to do with macOS but rather that your MySQL server 
doesn't recognize the database name you passed it plus another error, number 
2026, that GnuCash doesn't know how to handle.

As a reminder, users using the MySQL or Postgresql backends *must* be *expert* 
database administrators for the respective servers. The GnuCash team most 
emphatically are not and cannot provide any support for database server 
problems. If you are not a MySQL expert then you should use the SQLite3 or XML 
backends which don't require DB Admin skills.

Regards
John Ralls


> On Mar 16, 2022, at 6:31 PM, Neko Chang  wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> I have no idea how to run on MACOS still.
> Can help/information for it?
> Thanks a lot
> 
>> 
>> Hi gnucash-user
>> 
>> I had been encounter as subject, can help to resolve?
>> 
>> Detail:
>> I have both Gnucash v4.9 in MACOS 12 and Ubuntu 20 and both work fine
>> @ MySQL 8.0.23
>> After MySQL upgrade to 8.0.28, Gnucash @ Ubuntu 20 work fine, but
>> MACOS 12 won't.
>> 
>> Log as below, generate by
>> /Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash --debug --extra
>> --logto stdout
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
>> provider providers access_method, file, but we're loading for
>> access_method, mysql. Skipping.
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
>> provider providers access_method, sqlite3, but we're loading for
>> access_method, mysql. Skipping.
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend]
>> Selected provider GnuCash Libdbi (MYSQL) Backend
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: -5:
>> An invalid name was passed to libdbi
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
>> GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
>> processing.
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: 2026:
>> SSL connection error: unknown error number
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
>> GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
>> processing.
>>* 21:32:54 ERROR 
>> [GncDbiBackend::session_begin()] Unable to connect
>> to database 'gnucash'
>>* 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::begin] Done running
>> session_begin on backend
>> 
>> Root cause version of libdbi maybe I guess.
>> Package in Ubuntu 20 = 1.9.0
>> Bundle in Gnucash = 1.8.? (by Google)
>> 
>> Using package version of libdbi in MACOS possible?
>> Or work-around/solution/fix at next version?
>> 
>> Thanks very much.
> ___
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Re: [GNC] MySQL back-end access failed @ MACOS 12 after MySQL server upgrade to 8.0.28

[Adrien Monteleone]

You have to install MySQL/MariaDB on MacOS separately as far as I 
recall. (then save the file in that backend format)


But before you go through all of that trouble, what advantages do you 
think you will gain by using the MySQL backend vs. XML or SQLite?


Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 8:31 PM, Neko Chang wrote:

Hi All
I have no idea how to run on MACOS still.
Can help/information for it?
Thanks a lot



Hi gnucash-user

I had been encounter as subject, can help to resolve?

Detail:
I have both Gnucash v4.9 in MACOS 12 and Ubuntu 20 and both work fine
@ MySQL 8.0.23
After MySQL upgrade to 8.0.28, Gnucash @ Ubuntu 20 work fine, but
MACOS 12 won't.

Log as below, generate by
/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash --debug --extra
--logto stdout
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
provider providers access_method, file, but we're loading for
access_method, mysql. Skipping.
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
provider providers access_method, sqlite3, but we're loading for
access_method, mysql. Skipping.
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend]
Selected provider GnuCash Libdbi (MYSQL) Backend
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: -5:
An invalid name was passed to libdbi
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
processing.
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: 2026:
SSL connection error: unknown error number
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
processing.
 * 21:32:54 ERROR 
[GncDbiBackend::session_begin()] Unable to connect
to database 'gnucash'
 * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::begin] Done running
session_begin on backend

Root cause version of libdbi maybe I guess.
Package in Ubuntu 20 = 1.9.0
Bundle in Gnucash = 1.8.? (by Google)

Using package version of libdbi in MACOS possible?
Or work-around/solution/fix at next version?


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Re: [GNC] importing prices from csv

[john]

> On Mar 16, 2022, at 5:08 PM, Art Chimes  wrote:
> 
> I well remember agonizing over this when I first set up price imports.
> There's a bit of a learning curve here.
> 
> "Namespace" can be FUND (if it's a mutual fund), NYSE or NASDAQ or
> AMEX if it's a stock on the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, or the
> American Stock Exchange, respectively.
> 
> Most exchange-traded funds, or EFTs, are traded on AMEX, but there are
> exceptions. For example, there's an EFT (QQQM) that tracks the NASDAQ
> 100, and Gnucash wants the FUND namespace on that one.
> Good luck, and please post any further questions.

The namespace is a free-text field into which you may enter anything you like 
that helps you organize your non-currency commodities. The US stock exchanges 
and FUND are provided only as examples.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Adrien Monteleone]

And Stan has now given the breakdown of the splits to accomplish it.

That would be followed up with:

Dr. Liability:Taxes payable
Cr. Checking

when they are physically paid.

Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 7:54 PM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:

Yeah, I get that an accountant doesn't call this income, but frankly, I don't 
really care about the esoterica of accounting in this case. I care about what 
the government says is income. Accountants can yap all day long about how the 
IRA payouts aren't income; the IRS is still going to fine me if I don't pay up.


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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Adrien Monteleone]

Good to know, thanks for the clarification.

Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 6:49 PM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:

Oh, I know about using the tax flag and TXF report. Done it for years. But 
unless you figure out how to do what Mike has mentioned (consistently over the 
years), if you flag these accounts as tax-related, they still don't show as 
income, because you're transferring money from one asset account to another.


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Re: [GNC] Question about Assemblies

[Liz]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 01:59:28 +
Frederick  wrote:

> Hi there, i am a interested in abandoning my Accounting software and
> looking to see if Gnucash will work for my one person business.
> 
> The main issue is that i manufacture items to sell and need software
> that can account for assemblies.  This can go by the name of
> manufacture/build or assembly.  Sage 50 calls this Assembly.
> 
> If someone can let me know if builds are easily possible with gnucash
> and direct me to literature on this matter, it would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> take care,  fred
> 

I'm assuming here that you mean "manufacture a widget" for assembly and
build.
There are other meanings of build that software developers use.

When I make an invoice I can invoice different items. I can invoice
Time, different types of Service, and different Goods.

We don't know how you account for manufacturing costs when you invoice,
nor how you spread this income in your accounts. If you give some more
details, someone who is already doing similar with Gnucash can advise. 

Liz
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[GNC] Question about Assemblies

[Frederick]

Hi there, i am a interested in abandoning my Accounting software and looking to 
see if Gnucash will work for my one person business.

The main issue is that i manufacture items to sell and need software that can 
account for assemblies.  This can go by the name of manufacture/build or 
assembly.  Sage 50 calls this Assembly.

If someone can let me know if builds are easily possible with gnucash and 
direct me to literature on this matter, it would be greatly appreciated.

take care,  fred




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Re: [GNC] MySQL back-end access failed @ MACOS 12 after MySQL server upgrade to 8.0.28

[Neko Chang]

Hi All
I have no idea how to run on MACOS still.
Can help/information for it?
Thanks a lot

>
> Hi gnucash-user
>
> I had been encounter as subject, can help to resolve?
>
> Detail:
> I have both Gnucash v4.9 in MACOS 12 and Ubuntu 20 and both work fine
> @ MySQL 8.0.23
> After MySQL upgrade to 8.0.28, Gnucash @ Ubuntu 20 work fine, but
> MACOS 12 won't.
>
> Log as below, generate by
> /Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash --debug --extra
> --logto stdout
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
> provider providers access_method, file, but we're loading for
> access_method, mysql. Skipping.
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend] The
> provider providers access_method, sqlite3, but we're loading for
> access_method, mysql. Skipping.
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::load_backend]
> Selected provider GnuCash Libdbi (MYSQL) Backend
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: -5:
> An invalid name was passed to libdbi
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
> GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
> processing.
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] DBI error: 2026:
> SSL connection error: unknown error number
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [error_handler] Note:
> GbcDbiSqlConnection not yet initialized. Skipping further error
> processing.
> * 21:32:54 ERROR 
> [GncDbiBackend::session_begin()] Unable to connect
> to database 'gnucash'
> * 21:32:54 INFO  [QofSessionImpl::begin] Done running
> session_begin on backend
>
> Root cause version of libdbi maybe I guess.
> Package in Ubuntu 20 = 1.9.0
> Bundle in Gnucash = 1.8.? (by Google)
>
> Using package version of libdbi in MACOS possible?
> Or work-around/solution/fix at next version?
>
> Thanks very much.
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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[D. via gnucash-user]

Yeah, I get that an accountant doesn't call this income, but frankly, I don't 
really care about the esoterica of accounting in this case. I care about what 
the government says is income. Accountants can yap all day long about how the 
IRA payouts aren't income; the IRS is still going to fine me if I don't pay up. 


 Original Message 
From: Stan Brown 
Sent: Wed Mar 16 20:32:51 EDT 2022
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection


On 2022-03-16 15:09, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> when Joe Retiree takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it income, and 
> taxes it accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer from their IRA 
> to their checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated as income

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

Because it _isn't_. (The tax code's definition of income is not the same
as an accountant's.)

It is a debit to the asset of Cash/Banks, and a credit to the asset of
investments.

As several people have said, this can be record as the above simple
2-split transaction, in which case taxes are tidied up later when the
income tax is paid, or as a four-way split:

Debit:   Assets:Cash/Banks
Credit:  Assets:IRA
Credit:  Liability:Taxes payable
Debit:   Expenses:Income tax

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[D. via gnucash-user]

Michael, 

I think I get what you're saying. In my own case, I've taken to separating the 
pretax streams into their own income accounts, which seemingly addresses some 
of your points. 

But one of the big selling points of IRA/401Ks is that they earn money tax 
deferred (which I've also isolated into their own income accounts). How does 
Joe allocate the distributions-- or does it even matter? Each distribution is 
going to include a portion of deferred income and a portion of untaxed 
dividends (at least how I've captured the txns thus far). Is there a different 
way to manage those dividends?   

I started receiving pension payouts, and they dutifully inform me every year 
how much of those payouts were from my own contributions, and how much from 
their pot. The IRS seems to care about these distinctions, but, I honestly 
don't know.

Maybe I'm just overthinking this? 

David T. 


 Original Message 
From: Michael or Penny Novack 
Sent: Wed Mar 16 19:10:50 EDT 2022
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

On 3/16/2022 6:09 PM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> Adrien,
>
> Overall, I think you're right, but I believe the tax features you're 
> referring to are used to calculate taxes for a business? The issue with 
> deferred income-- and this has been true for as long as I can remember-- is 
> that when Joe Retiree takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it 
> income, and taxes it accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer 
> from their IRA to their checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated 
> as income, and there doesn't appear to Joe to be a straightforward way in 
> GnuCash to make it into income that they can track for taxes. That is a 
> decidedly different tax issue than the one you've mentioned, IMHO.
>
> David T.

There was the reverse problem when the contribution was made. The 
solution used then (if 401k treated as an asset) would cancel the 
"problem" now.

The problem is that I am willing to bet that the books were opened with 
a starting amount for the 401k, opposite side "starting equity". 
Instead, the credit side of that should have been a "deferred income" 
account << that could well be placed under equity >>

So a distribution transaction is then a transfer between the assets 
"401k" and "cash" AND a transfer between "deferred income" and "income".

Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] importing prices from csv

[D. via gnucash-user]

Every stock has a Namespace in Gnucash. "NYSE"  "NASDAQ" are examples. 

I have an online spreadsheet into which I can paste my Advanced Portfolio data, 
and then a second worksheet in the file compiles the prices for the result set, 
which can be cut and pasted locally for import. 


 Original Message 
From: George Riner 
Sent: Wed Mar 16 19:47:26 EDT 2022
To: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] importing prices from csv

Thanks.

One question... I don't know what is "the entry from Gnucash" ? err... 
what entry from Gnucash?

:George

On 3/16/2022 2:59 PM, D. wrote:
> I am able to import prices from csv with a four column source:
>
> Ticker,  Namespace, Price,  Date
>
> Namespace is the entry from Gnucash.
> 
> *From:* George Riner
> *Sent:* Wed Mar 16 11:36:14 EDT 2022
> *To:* gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> *Subject:* [GNC] importing prices from csv
>
> My specs:
>
> Platform: Windows 10 (64-bit) build 19044.1586 (32Gb RAM)
> Gnucash: 4.9+(2021-12-18) Enaaglish
> Finance Quote: 1.51a
> I live and work in California, USA.
>
> I've been trying to use the "Import Prices from a CSV file..." tool.
> I've got a CSV with symbols ('ticker symbols'?) and prices, and it
> includes the name of the fund that the ticker symbol is for.
> It has a 'date' column for the date of the fund price.
> It has a column for 'Amount' that is the price of that fund.  The prices
> are in USD.
>
> I set "Currency To" to "USD (US Dollar)" in the drop down above the
> panel where it shows the rows of the CSV
>
> But I'm stumped what "Commodity From" is supposed to be. The CSV has
> prices (in USD) for various different funds - are funds commodities? If
> I pick "USD (US Dollar)" for Commodity From, the error is "Commodity
>   From can not be the same as 'Currency To'". Looking through the list
> offered in the 'Commodity From' drop down, I see all sorts of currencies
> and securities I've entered through the Security Editor.  What am I
> supposed to pick?
>
> :George
> California, USA
>
> 
>
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Stan Brown]

On 2022-03-16 15:09, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> when Joe Retiree takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it income, and 
> taxes it accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer from their IRA 
> to their checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated as income

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

Because it _isn't_. (The tax code's definition of income is not the same
as an accountant's.)

It is a debit to the asset of Cash/Banks, and a credit to the asset of
investments.

As several people have said, this can be record as the above simple
2-split transaction, in which case taxes are tidied up later when the
income tax is paid, or as a four-way split:

Debit:   Assets:Cash/Banks
Credit:  Assets:IRA
Credit:  Liability:Taxes payable
Debit:   Expenses:Income tax

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] importing prices from csv

[Jack Frillman via gnucash-user]

I track the prices of Mutual Funds, Stocks and Precious Metals and 
import them all with a single CSV file.
In all three cases I do not use any of the pre-defined GNUCash Namespace 
names. I use all user defined name space.



On 3/16/22 8:08 PM, Art Chimes wrote:

I well remember agonizing over this when I first set up price imports.
There's a bit of a learning curve here.

"Namespace" can be FUND (if it's a mutual fund), NYSE or NASDAQ or
AMEX if it's a stock on the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, or the
American Stock Exchange, respectively.

Most exchange-traded funds, or EFTs, are traded on AMEX, but there are
exceptions. For example, there's an EFT (QQQM) that tracks the NASDAQ
100, and Gnucash wants the FUND namespace on that one.
Good luck, and please post any further questions.


Art
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--
Old Unix programmers never die, they just mv to /dev/null
- Anonymous

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Re: [GNC] importing prices from csv

[Art Chimes]

I well remember agonizing over this when I first set up price imports.
There's a bit of a learning curve here.

"Namespace" can be FUND (if it's a mutual fund), NYSE or NASDAQ or
AMEX if it's a stock on the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, or the
American Stock Exchange, respectively.

Most exchange-traded funds, or EFTs, are traded on AMEX, but there are
exceptions. For example, there's an EFT (QQQM) that tracks the NASDAQ
100, and Gnucash wants the FUND namespace on that one.
Good luck, and please post any further questions.


Art
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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[D. via gnucash-user]

Oh, I know about using the tax flag and TXF report. Done it for years. But 
unless you figure out how to do what Mike has mentioned (consistently over the 
years), if you flag these accounts as tax-related, they still don't show as 
income, because you're transferring money from one asset account to another. 


 Original Message 
From: Adrien Monteleone 
Sent: Wed Mar 16 19:20:57 EDT 2022
To: gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

GnuCash also lets you mark accounts as tax implicated and you can I 
think tie them to certain 'lines' or certain 'forms'. That's used for 
personal taxes as well.

I wasn't even thinking about the sales tax features for invoices/bills 
which is something entirely separate.

If simply marking the relevant accounts are not enough to get it onto a 
Tax Report, then yes, virtual type tracking will be needed.

Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 5:09 PM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> Adrien,
> 
> Overall, I think you're right, but I believe the tax features you're 
> referring to are used to calculate taxes for a business? The issue with 
> deferred income-- and this has been true for as long as I can remember-- is 
> that when Joe Retiree takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it 
> income, and taxes it accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer 
> from their IRA to their checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated 
> as income, and there doesn't appear to Joe to be a straightforward way in 
> GnuCash to make it into income that they can track for taxes. That is a 
> decidedly different tax issue than the one you've mentioned, IMHO.

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Re: [GNC] importing prices from csv

[George Riner]

Thanks.

One question... I don't know what is "the entry from Gnucash" ? err... 
what entry from Gnucash?


:George

On 3/16/2022 2:59 PM, D. wrote:

I am able to import prices from csv with a four column source:

Ticker,  Namespace, Price,  Date

Namespace is the entry from Gnucash.

*From:* George Riner
*Sent:* Wed Mar 16 11:36:14 EDT 2022
*To:* gnucash-user@gnucash.org
*Subject:* [GNC] importing prices from csv

My specs:

Platform: Windows 10 (64-bit) build 19044.1586 (32Gb RAM)
Gnucash: 4.9+(2021-12-18) Enaaglish
Finance Quote: 1.51a
I live and work in California, USA.

I've been trying to use the "Import Prices from a CSV file..." tool.
I've got a CSV with symbols ('ticker symbols'?) and prices, and it
includes the name of the fund that the ticker symbol is for.
It has a 'date' column for the date of the fund price.
It has a column for 'Amount' that is the price of that fund.  The prices
are in USD.

I set "Currency To" to "USD (US Dollar)" in the drop down above the
panel where it shows the rows of the CSV

But I'm stumped what "Commodity From" is supposed to be. The CSV has
prices (in USD) for various different funds - are funds commodities? If
I pick "USD (US Dollar)" for Commodity From, the error is "Commodity
  From can not be the same as 'Currency To'". Looking through the list
offered in the 'Commodity From' drop down, I see all sorts of currencies
and securities I've entered through the Security Editor.  What am I
supposed to pick?

:George
California, USA



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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Adrien Monteleone]

GnuCash also lets you mark accounts as tax implicated and you can I 
think tie them to certain 'lines' or certain 'forms'. That's used for 
personal taxes as well.


I wasn't even thinking about the sales tax features for invoices/bills 
which is something entirely separate.


If simply marking the relevant accounts are not enough to get it onto a 
Tax Report, then yes, virtual type tracking will be needed.


Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 5:09 PM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:

Adrien,

Overall, I think you're right, but I believe the tax features you're referring 
to are used to calculate taxes for a business? The issue with deferred income-- 
and this has been true for as long as I can remember-- is that when Joe Retiree 
takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it income, and taxes it 
accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer from their IRA to their 
checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated as income, and there 
doesn't appear to Joe to be a straightforward way in GnuCash to make it into 
income that they can track for taxes. That is a decidedly different tax issue 
than the one you've mentioned, IMHO.


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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 3/16/2022 7:03 PM, Gyle McCollam wrote:

Michael has the right approach.  Recording this when taking income involves 4 
account.  However, don't forget that if it is coming from a Roth IRA there is 
no tax.  401K and Traditional IRA will involve a tax liability, but that is a 
whole other animal.


Right about the Roth. But note that was an "after tax" contribution. 
Didn't go into deferred income so doesn't come out. Note that there 
COULD also have been after tax contributions to a 401K


Michael  Novack


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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 3/16/2022 6:09 PM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:

Adrien,

Overall, I think you're right, but I believe the tax features you're referring 
to are used to calculate taxes for a business? The issue with deferred income-- 
and this has been true for as long as I can remember-- is that when Joe Retiree 
takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it income, and taxes it 
accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer from their IRA to their 
checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated as income, and there 
doesn't appear to Joe to be a straightforward way in GnuCash to make it into 
income that they can track for taxes. That is a decidedly different tax issue 
than the one you've mentioned, IMHO.

David T.


There was the reverse problem when the contribution was made. The 
solution used then (if 401k treated as an asset) would cancel the 
"problem" now.


The problem is that I am willing to bet that the books were opened with 
a starting amount for the 401k, opposite side "starting equity". 
Instead, the credit side of that should have been a "deferred income" 
account << that could well be placed under equity >>


So a distribution transaction is then a transfer between the assets 
"401k" and "cash" AND a transfer between "deferred income" and "income".


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Gyle McCollam]

Michael has the right approach.  Recording this when taking income involves 4 
account.  However, don't forget that if it is coming from a Roth IRA there is 
no tax.  401K and Traditional IRA will involve a tax liability, but that is a 
whole other animal.


Thank You,
Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

609.680.2326 Mobile

gmccol...@live.com   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of D. via gnucash-user 
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 6:09 PM
To: Adrien Monteleone 
Cc: GnuCash-User 
Subject: Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

Adrien,

Overall, I think you're right, but I believe the tax features you're referring 
to are used to calculate taxes for a business? The issue with deferred income-- 
and this has been true for as long as I can remember-- is that when Joe Retiree 
takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it income, and taxes it 
accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer from their IRA to their 
checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated as income, and there 
doesn't appear to Joe to be a straightforward way in GnuCash to make it into 
income that they can track for taxes. That is a decidedly different tax issue 
than the one you've mentioned, IMHO.

David T.


 Original Message 
From: Adrien Monteleone 
Sent: Wed Mar 16 13:09:10 EDT 2022
To: gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

I could be missing something, but I thought that was already covered by
one of the answers. Also, I'm pretty sure the proper place to record and
track that is in an Asset account, not Equity.

As for the transactions, if you need to do virtual 'extra tracking'
beyond just the physical withdrawal, you can do that all in one
transaction rather than 2 or more.

A transaction can have more than 2 splits. So you'll have your real
splits modeling the real world movement of funds, then you can have
additional pair(s) of splits that handle 'tax due' type of tracking.

Finally, there are Tax Features built in. Have you investigated them and
do they not address the 'tax due' tracking you are looking for? (you may
not need additional accounts and virtual tracking transactions, just run
a report)

Sorry I can't help more specifically. I don't use GnuCash for such
purposes. Plenty on this list do however. Someone is sure to be able to
offer a step by step at some point.

Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 9:48 AM, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:
> OK, not anything like an accountant, so my books have just asset, liability, 
> income, expense.  Equity might be a better place for the IRA/401K, since it 
> is an asset with a varying value and an attached tax liability TBD.  So, how 
> should I have set up such 100% pretax deferred income accounts to capture the 
> income when money is transferred out, preferably without two transactions 
> (talk about your double entry!)?

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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[D. via gnucash-user]

Adrien, 

Overall, I think you're right, but I believe the tax features you're referring 
to are used to calculate taxes for a business? The issue with deferred income-- 
and this has been true for as long as I can remember-- is that when Joe Retiree 
takes money from their IRA, the IRS considers it income, and taxes it 
accordingly. But when Joe tries to enter the transfer from their IRA to their 
checking account in GnuCash,  it doesn't get treated as income, and there 
doesn't appear to Joe to be a straightforward way in GnuCash to make it into 
income that they can track for taxes. That is a decidedly different tax issue 
than the one you've mentioned, IMHO. 

David T.


 Original Message 
From: Adrien Monteleone 
Sent: Wed Mar 16 13:09:10 EDT 2022
To: gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

I could be missing something, but I thought that was already covered by 
one of the answers. Also, I'm pretty sure the proper place to record and 
track that is in an Asset account, not Equity.

As for the transactions, if you need to do virtual 'extra tracking' 
beyond just the physical withdrawal, you can do that all in one 
transaction rather than 2 or more.

A transaction can have more than 2 splits. So you'll have your real 
splits modeling the real world movement of funds, then you can have 
additional pair(s) of splits that handle 'tax due' type of tracking.

Finally, there are Tax Features built in. Have you investigated them and 
do they not address the 'tax due' tracking you are looking for? (you may 
not need additional accounts and virtual tracking transactions, just run 
a report)

Sorry I can't help more specifically. I don't use GnuCash for such 
purposes. Plenty on this list do however. Someone is sure to be able to 
offer a step by step at some point.

Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 9:48 AM, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:
> OK, not anything like an accountant, so my books have just asset, liability, 
> income, expense.  Equity might be a better place for the IRA/401K, since it 
> is an asset with a varying value and an attached tax liability TBD.  So, how 
> should I have set up such 100% pretax deferred income accounts to capture the 
> income when money is transferred out, preferably without two transactions 
> (talk about your double entry!)?

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Re: [GNC] importing prices from csv

[D. via gnucash-user]

I am able to import prices from csv with a four column source:

Ticker,  Namespace, Price,  Date

Namespace is the entry from Gnucash. 


 Original Message 
From: George Riner 
Sent: Wed Mar 16 11:36:14 EDT 2022
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: [GNC] importing prices from csv

My specs:

Platform: Windows 10 (64-bit) build 19044.1586 (32Gb RAM)
Gnucash: 4.9+(2021-12-18) Enaaglish
Finance Quote: 1.51a
I live and work in California, USA.

I've been trying to use the "Import Prices from a CSV file..." tool.
I've got a CSV with symbols ('ticker symbols'?) and prices, and it 
includes the name of the fund that the ticker symbol is for.
It has a 'date' column for the date of the fund price.
It has a column for 'Amount' that is the price of that fund.  The prices 
are in USD.

I set "Currency To" to "USD (US Dollar)" in the drop down above the 
panel where it shows the rows of the CSV

But I'm stumped what "Commodity From" is supposed to be. The CSV has 
prices (in USD) for various different funds - are funds commodities? If 
I pick "USD (US Dollar)" for Commodity From, the error is "Commodity 
 From can not be the same as 'Currency To'". Looking through the list 
offered in the 'Commodity From' drop down, I see all sorts of currencies 
and securities I've entered through the Security Editor.  What am I 
supposed to pick?

:George
California, USA

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[GNC] importing prices from csv

[George Riner]

My specs:

Platform: Windows 10 (64-bit) build 19044.1586 (32Gb RAM)
Gnucash: 4.9+(2021-12-18) Enaaglish
Finance Quote: 1.51a
I live and work in California, USA.

I've been trying to use the "Import Prices from a CSV file..." tool.
I've got a CSV with symbols ('ticker symbols'?) and prices, and it 
includes the name of the fund that the ticker symbol is for.

It has a 'date' column for the date of the fund price.
It has a column for 'Amount' that is the price of that fund.  The prices 
are in USD.


I set "Currency To" to "USD (US Dollar)" in the drop down above the 
panel where it shows the rows of the CSV


But I'm stumped what "Commodity From" is supposed to be. The CSV has 
prices (in USD) for various different funds - are funds commodities? If 
I pick "USD (US Dollar)" for Commodity From, the error is "Commodity 
From can not be the same as 'Currency To'". Looking through the list 
offered in the 'Commodity From' drop down, I see all sorts of currencies 
and securities I've entered through the Security Editor.  What am I 
supposed to pick?


:George
California, USA

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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 3/16/2022 10:48 AM, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:

OK, not anything like an accountant, so my books have just asset, liability, 
income, expense.  Equity might be a better place for the IRA/401K, since it is 
an asset with a varying value and an attached tax liability TBD.  So, how 
should I have set up such 100% pretax deferred income accounts to capture the 
income when money is transferred out, preferably without two transactions (talk 
about your double entry!)?



I was NOT describing "two transactions" although until you have gotten 
comfortable with "split" transactions (more than just two accounts 
involved) you could do it with two instead of a split. And it would be a 
"two way split" which is ordinarily a little harder than a one sided 
split but this is a special case where all amounts the same so not hard.


The point is that this transaction (taking a distribution) is affecting 
more than two accounts. It is reducing the asset 401k and increasing the 
asset cash but ALSO moving that amount of deferred income to (current) 
income.


And sorry -- I think you misunderstand "equity" as the term is sued in 
double entry bookkeeping.  Review the introduction/basics.



Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection (David G. Pickett)

[Derek Robinson via gnucash-user]

I handle qualified plans with 3 generic transactions.
1. Contributions to plan: credit cash (if making a contribution from a bank 
account) or wage income (if making the contribution directly from your 
paycheck), debit to your plan
2. Gains to your plan. Unrealized gains should adjust the plan balance 
automatically as you update prices of the underlying holdings. If you have 
realized gains, create an equity account called "Gains and Losses," credit 
that, debit your plan.
3. Distributions from your plan: if you want to track these tightly, it is 
easiest as two transactions (or really one four-line transaction). Create an 
equity account called "Qualified Plan Drawdowns" and a revenue account called 
"Qualified Plan Income." For each distribution: credit your plan, debit 
Qualified Plan Drawdowns, credit Qualified Plan Income, debit cash. Your 
"Qualified Plan Drawdowns" are essentially dividends - money you pay yourself.


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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Adrien Monteleone]

I could be missing something, but I thought that was already covered by 
one of the answers. Also, I'm pretty sure the proper place to record and 
track that is in an Asset account, not Equity.


As for the transactions, if you need to do virtual 'extra tracking' 
beyond just the physical withdrawal, you can do that all in one 
transaction rather than 2 or more.


A transaction can have more than 2 splits. So you'll have your real 
splits modeling the real world movement of funds, then you can have 
additional pair(s) of splits that handle 'tax due' type of tracking.


Finally, there are Tax Features built in. Have you investigated them and 
do they not address the 'tax due' tracking you are looking for? (you may 
not need additional accounts and virtual tracking transactions, just run 
a report)


Sorry I can't help more specifically. I don't use GnuCash for such 
purposes. Plenty on this list do however. Someone is sure to be able to 
offer a step by step at some point.


Regards,
Adrien

On 3/16/22 9:48 AM, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:

OK, not anything like an accountant, so my books have just asset, liability, 
income, expense.  Equity might be a better place for the IRA/401K, since it is 
an asset with a varying value and an attached tax liability TBD.  So, how 
should I have set up such 100% pretax deferred income accounts to capture the 
income when money is transferred out, preferably without two transactions (talk 
about your double entry!)?


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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[Stan Brown]

On 2022-03-16 07:48, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:
> Equity might be a better place for the IRA/401K, since it is an asset

If it's an asset (and I agree that it is), then I submit that Assets is
the best place for it!

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] IRA/401K income detection

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

OK, not anything like an accountant, so my books have just asset, liability, 
income, expense.  Equity might be a better place for the IRA/401K, since it is 
an asset with a varying value and an attached tax liability TBD.  So, how 
should I have set up such 100% pretax deferred income accounts to capture the 
income when money is transferred out, preferably without two transactions (talk 
about your double entry!)?  
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