Re: [GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Jim DeLaHunt]

Rich:

You have received several replies, but I have a sense that some of them 
are talking past you. The issue may be that the term "Starting Balance" 
can mean multiple things in GnuCash.


On 2023-04-26 06:09, Rich James wrote:

I'm trying to resolve some reconciliation issues and decided to go back to
my first statement from last year when I opened the account to establish
that everything is balanced.  However, when I start to reconcile and put in
the statement date and ending balance, the reconciliation window shows a
Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of $0.  This gives me
an incorrect difference that I can't properly clear.

Is there a known issue where this can occur?  Or can anyone suggest a way
to resolve this?  I'm seeing similar behavior with another account as well.


"Starting Balance" meaning 1: Another term for "Opening Balance". In the 
account register, the running total amount after the first transaction.  
If you told the GnuCash "New Account" setup dialogue[1] that an account 
which you are creating has a non-zero Opening Balance, then GnuCash 
creates the first transaction in this account, with the "Opening 
Balance" amount in the new account, and an offsetting amount in the 
Equity:Opening Balances account.


"Starting Balance" meaning 2: The value shown in the "Reconcile Window", 
bottom right corner, labelled "Starting Balance". This is no more or 
less than the sum of all transactions in that account which are marked 
as "Reconciled". As Derek Atkins pointed out,



You cannot go "back in time" to reconcile.  When you reconcile an account
at date X, you are reconciling from "the beginning of time" to date X.
You cannot then go back to a date earlier than X to (re)reconcile.
Rich, I think you are using meaning 2 when you say "the reconciliation 
window shows a Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of 
$0." From your description, this sounds like expected behaviour. You 
have "reconciliation issues", so that says to me that you have already 
marked some of the transactions in this account as "reconciled". The 
"Starting Balance" value which you see in the Reconciliation Window 
should be exactly equal to the sum of those transactions as they affect 
this account.


So, maybe a question you have is, "How to I untangle incorrect 
reconciliations in an account"? For that question, it would be helpful 
to know what are the "reconciliation issues" you see, what transactions 
are in the account, and what reconciliation you have done so far.


Does this help? Best regards,
    —Jim DeLaHunt


[1] /GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide/, Figure 2.11 "*New Account 
Hierarchy Setup: Account Setup"* 



[2] /GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide,/ Section 2.9.4. 
"*Reconciliation*" 



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Re: [GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Michael or Penny Novack]

A brand new credit account would have a zero balance.  A brand new cash or
checking account *could* have the initial deposit as the starting balance.
Am I completely off the rails here?


I wouldn't say completely.

But because folks new to double entry bookkeeping can be tripped up by 
details.


1) If a new credit card is issued in the course of a transaction with a 
vendor (whose credit card it is) it might have an initial charge. I have 
experienced this << offer -- we will give you X off on that purchase 
today if you open a CC with us >> So IF you create accounts with the 
opening balance wizard, could have an initial balance. But see "2", 
because just like that this purchase had another side to the transaction 
(other than equity).


2) If you open a new bank account with an initial balance (initial 
deposit) that is a transaction with a defined date. This is a case where 
I would certainly not use the wizard. I would create the account with 
zero balance and then enter a transaction for the deposit. There was 
another side to that transaction other than equity.


3) There is no need to use the wizard at all. In the old days this was 
done with a transaction (or transactions) defining the opening date of 
the books. You can still do it that way.


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Rich James]

Hi, It's not Derek that asked the question, but me.

That being said, I tried again today to reconcile using my latest statement
and now I am able to reconcile correctly.  I honestly don't know why it was
so off yesterday.  I've used gnuCash for years and have never had the issue
I originally raised.  It has to be me doing something incorrectly, but I
have no idea what it was.  I checked myself multiple times before deciding
to post something about it.

I'm sorry to waste everyone's time.  Thanks,
Rich

On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 9:09 AM Phyllis Bruce  wrote:

> Derek, when you *first came into Gnucash* did you enter current balances
> as equity?  Any balance on a credit card would be negative to equity.  Your
> cash accounts would be positive.  It's not too late to do that.  Enter the
> beginning balance on the statement you are trying to reconcile as equity
> for that account.  Use help to get to the tutorials and best practices.
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 8:21 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, April 26, 2023 9:09 am, Rich James wrote:
>> > I'm trying to resolve some reconciliation issues and decided to go back
>> to
>> > my first statement from last year when I opened the account to establish
>> > that everything is balanced.  However, when I start to reconcile and put
>> > in
>> > the statement date and ending balance, the reconciliation window shows a
>> > Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of $0.  This gives
>> me
>> > an incorrect difference that I can't properly clear.
>> >
>> > Is there a known issue where this can occur?  Or can anyone suggest a
>> way
>> > to resolve this?  I'm seeing similar behavior with another account as
>> > well.
>>
>> You cannot go "back in time" to reconcile.  When you reconcile an account
>> at date X, you are reconciling from "the beginning of time" to date X.
>> You cannot then go back to a date earlier than X to (re)reconcile.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Rich
>>
>> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>> -derek
>>
>> --
>>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>>
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Re: [GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Phyllis Bruce]

H.  Yes I did mean Rich.  I was assuming he was just getting started
and that he cancelled his reconciliation because it didn't work for him.

My starting balance in all my reconcilable (?) accounts was not zero.  When
I created the accounts I entered the ending balance of the previous
statement as the starting balance (the equity).  I had no trouble at all in
reconciling those first statements.  Of course, I entered any *unreconciled*
transactions into Gnu so they were available to the first reconciliation.
A brand new credit account would have a zero balance.  A brand new cash or
checking account *could* have the initial deposit as the starting balance.
Am I completely off the rails here?

On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 9:15 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, April 26, 2023 10:09 am, Phyllis Bruce wrote:
> > Derek, when you *first came into Gnucash* did you enter current balances
> > as
> > equity?  Any balance on a credit card would be negative to equity.  Your
> > cash accounts would be positive.  It's not too late to do that.  Enter
> the
> > beginning balance on the statement you are trying to reconcile as equity
> > for that account.  Use help to get to the tutorials and best practices.
>
> I think you meant to direct that to Rich, not to me.
>
> (For the record, yes, when I started my accounts in.. 2002.. I did indeed
> put in starting balances.)
>
> BUT, you must put them in prior to reconciling.  And even so, the first
> time you reconcile you will get a starting balance of 0.
>
> -derek
>
> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 8:21 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On Wed, April 26, 2023 9:09 am, Rich James wrote:
> >> > I'm trying to resolve some reconciliation issues and decided to go
> >> back
> >> to
> >> > my first statement from last year when I opened the account to
> >> establish
> >> > that everything is balanced.  However, when I start to reconcile and
> >> put
> >> > in
> >> > the statement date and ending balance, the reconciliation window shows
> >> a
> >> > Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of $0.  This gives
> >> me
> >> > an incorrect difference that I can't properly clear.
> >> >
> >> > Is there a known issue where this can occur?  Or can anyone suggest a
> >> way
> >> > to resolve this?  I'm seeing similar behavior with another account as
> >> > well.
> >>
> >> You cannot go "back in time" to reconcile.  When you reconcile an
> >> account
> >> at date X, you are reconciling from "the beginning of time" to date X.
> >> You cannot then go back to a date earlier than X to (re)reconcile.
> >>
> >> Hope this helps,
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Rich
> >>
> >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >>
> >> -derek
> >>
> >> --
> >>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
> >>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
> >>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
> >>
> >> ___
> >> gnucash-user mailing list
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> >>
> >
>
>
> --
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Wed, April 26, 2023 10:09 am, Phyllis Bruce wrote:
> Derek, when you *first came into Gnucash* did you enter current balances
> as
> equity?  Any balance on a credit card would be negative to equity.  Your
> cash accounts would be positive.  It's not too late to do that.  Enter the
> beginning balance on the statement you are trying to reconcile as equity
> for that account.  Use help to get to the tutorials and best practices.

I think you meant to direct that to Rich, not to me.

(For the record, yes, when I started my accounts in.. 2002.. I did indeed
put in starting balances.)

BUT, you must put them in prior to reconciling.  And even so, the first
time you reconcile you will get a starting balance of 0.

-derek

> On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 8:21 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, April 26, 2023 9:09 am, Rich James wrote:
>> > I'm trying to resolve some reconciliation issues and decided to go
>> back
>> to
>> > my first statement from last year when I opened the account to
>> establish
>> > that everything is balanced.  However, when I start to reconcile and
>> put
>> > in
>> > the statement date and ending balance, the reconciliation window shows
>> a
>> > Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of $0.  This gives
>> me
>> > an incorrect difference that I can't properly clear.
>> >
>> > Is there a known issue where this can occur?  Or can anyone suggest a
>> way
>> > to resolve this?  I'm seeing similar behavior with another account as
>> > well.
>>
>> You cannot go "back in time" to reconcile.  When you reconcile an
>> account
>> at date X, you are reconciling from "the beginning of time" to date X.
>> You cannot then go back to a date earlier than X to (re)reconcile.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Rich
>>
>> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>> -derek
>>
>> --
>>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>>
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>


-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Phyllis Bruce]

Derek, when you *first came into Gnucash* did you enter current balances as
equity?  Any balance on a credit card would be negative to equity.  Your
cash accounts would be positive.  It's not too late to do that.  Enter the
beginning balance on the statement you are trying to reconcile as equity
for that account.  Use help to get to the tutorials and best practices.

On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 8:21 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, April 26, 2023 9:09 am, Rich James wrote:
> > I'm trying to resolve some reconciliation issues and decided to go back
> to
> > my first statement from last year when I opened the account to establish
> > that everything is balanced.  However, when I start to reconcile and put
> > in
> > the statement date and ending balance, the reconciliation window shows a
> > Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of $0.  This gives me
> > an incorrect difference that I can't properly clear.
> >
> > Is there a known issue where this can occur?  Or can anyone suggest a way
> > to resolve this?  I'm seeing similar behavior with another account as
> > well.
>
> You cannot go "back in time" to reconcile.  When you reconcile an account
> at date X, you are reconciling from "the beginning of time" to date X.
> You cannot then go back to a date earlier than X to (re)reconcile.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
>
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> -derek
>
> --
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>
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Re: [GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Wed, April 26, 2023 9:09 am, Rich James wrote:
> I'm trying to resolve some reconciliation issues and decided to go back to
> my first statement from last year when I opened the account to establish
> that everything is balanced.  However, when I start to reconcile and put
> in
> the statement date and ending balance, the reconciliation window shows a
> Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of $0.  This gives me
> an incorrect difference that I can't properly clear.
>
> Is there a known issue where this can occur?  Or can anyone suggest a way
> to resolve this?  I'm seeing similar behavior with another account as
> well.

You cannot go "back in time" to reconcile.  When you reconcile an account
at date X, you are reconciling from "the beginning of time" to date X. 
You cannot then go back to a date earlier than X to (re)reconcile.

Hope this helps,

>
> Thanks,
> Rich

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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[GNC] Starting balance of new account is not $0

[Rich James]

I'm trying to resolve some reconciliation issues and decided to go back to
my first statement from last year when I opened the account to establish
that everything is balanced.  However, when I start to reconcile and put in
the statement date and ending balance, the reconciliation window shows a
Starting Balance of several hundred dollars instead of $0.  This gives me
an incorrect difference that I can't properly clear.

Is there a known issue where this can occur?  Or can anyone suggest a way
to resolve this?  I'm seeing similar behavior with another account as well.

Thanks,
Rich
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