Re: [GNC] Stumped on Mortgage Asst - Screenshots
On 8/3/22 05:37, steve.schwa...@fastmail.com wrote: Thanks for the background folks. I appreciate the effort and will do the manual creation. However, I'm hardheaded enough that I want get the transaction to work within tolerances with a minimum of monthly intervention such as editing or reading bank statements. I have to go on record that P&I for July 2022 and May 2035 is more than simply fractions of pennies from various calculation assumptions. I don't need that sort of precision in tracking trends in my personal Net Worth reports. Is there a man page of sorts for the various functions, pmt, ipmt, ppmt? I'm sure one of the trailing zeros refers to whether payments are due at the beginning or end of the period, but can't imagine what the other may be. Meanwhile, I'll continue experimentation on my dummy data. Like I said, hardheaded. Steve I found the details buried in the code. Look in these two source code files: ./libgnucash/app-utils/calculation/fin.c ./libgnucash/app-utils/fin.scm The '.' for me is at /home/steve/Projects/GnuCash/gnucash where 'gnucash' is my copy of the git repository. On 8/2/22 10:17, David Carlson wrote: Steve, I am not going to open your zip file, I imagine it is just documenting the fact that the P & I calculations don't exactly match your lenders' statements, which is a known issue, unfixable since they all have their own way of calculating it. At least that was the case years ago when I last set one up. Many of us, like Will, just accept the numbers as estimates and correct them when we get the statements. There has been some discussion in the history here about how to massage the equations when we want to 'start in the middle' for an existing loan, for example, but I am not sure how to find those. I have done that to start a year in and to include extra $ for principle. It is best to use LibreOffice Calc (Or Excel) to calculate the monthly payment and number of months needed to fit your situation. It has been several months and one of my loans is spot on each month. The other one -- well, I'm wondering what the bank is smoking as it flops around by a significant amount each month. I suspect they are on a daily interest amount and since the number of days between payments varies (US mail, # of days in month, pay early/late by a day or so) they come up with numbers that make my head spin. So, as some have suggested, I just wait for the statement to come out and then I adjust the posted transaction. at least the payment amount totals the same each month! Here is the setup for my recent mortgage: The 1326.35 is my total monthly payment. .02990 is my annual interest factor. i is the internal counter for the month of the loan. GnuCash controls that number 360 is the total number of payments. 315,000.00 is the original loan amount. Here is the one for my 5th wheel where some interest was prepaid up front and they delayed the first payment so I'm adjusting the month counter by -2 to get the numbers to be close enough. This is also the one where I suspect they use a daily interest amount rather than standard calculation as the numbers bounce around each month. I have cc'd you direct just in case these two images being pasted directly in don't make it via the list. On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 8:47 AM William Prescott wrote: A slight variation on Steve's suggestion. I made the mortgage payments a 'Scheduled Transaction' with some nominal values for principal and interest payments. Then, they were created automatically, and I just edited them to get the amounts correct. Will On 2022 Aug 2, at 08-02 02:55:33, David T. via gnucash-user < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: Steve, I expect others will give you ideas on how or what is mistaken on the mortgage assistant. I, however, am going to suggest a different approach, which is to forego using the scheduled transactions/mortgage assistant altogether, and simply enter the monthly payments manually. The reason I suggest this is due to the fact that (as Michael Novak often reminds us on the list) your calculations and the bank's calculations will likely not match precisely, due to differences in base assumptions on the calculation. Because they won't match precisely, you'll end up editing the completed transactions. [For this reason, I truly wonder whether the mortgage assistant is actually useful or should be included in the program, since it seems to cause more troubles than it solved. That's just my opinion, however.] If, instead, you enter the transactions manually, Gnucash will autofill the transaction with the last entered values, and you can quickly modify the amounts to match the bank statement. David T. On August 1, 2022 11:59:06 PM GMT+03:00,"steve.schwa...@fastmail.com" < steve.schwa...@fastmail.com> wrote: All, Please help if you can. I think I've documented with the shots required, but if you want to see something else, s
Re: [GNC] Stumped on Mortgage Asst - Screenshots
HI, On Wed, August 3, 2022 8:37 am, steve.schwa...@fastmail.com wrote: > Thanks for the background folks. I appreciate the effort and will do the > manual creation. > > However, I'm hardheaded enough that I want get the transaction to work > within tolerances with a minimum of monthly intervention such as editing > or reading bank statements. I have to go on record that P&I for July > 2022 and May 2035 is more than simply fractions of pennies from various > calculation assumptions. I don't need that sort of precision in tracking > trends in my personal Net Worth reports. Personally I just care about the payment and escrow split amounts. The actual Principle and Interest amounts are going to be wrong (because I overpay, which SX doesn't support). So a couple times a year I go over my statements to correct those splits. > Is there a man page of sorts for the various functions, pmt, ipmt, > ppmt? I'm sure one of the trailing zeros refers to whether payments are > due at the beginning or end of the period, but can't imagine what the > other may be. Meanwhile, I'll continue experimentation on my dummy data. > Like I said, hardheaded. Indeed, that is what that last field is for, whether accrual is at the start or end of the period. The function matches what you find in, say, libreoffice, so you can use their documentation to explain the fields (although the syntax is different due to the separator character differences). I do find it odd that only two months are off so much, but it sounds like it's just the first and last, so start vs end might be the reason. -derek > > Steve > > On 8/2/22 10:17, David Carlson wrote: >> Steve, >> >> I am not going to open your zip file, I imagine it is just documenting >> the >> fact that the P & I calculations don't exactly match your lenders' >> statements, which is a known issue, unfixable since they all have their >> own >> way of calculating it. At least that was the case years ago when I last >> set one up. Many of us, like Will, just accept the numbers as estimates >> and correct them when we get the statements. >> >> There has been some discussion in the history here about how to massage >> the >> equations when we want to 'start in the middle' for an existing loan, >> for >> example, but I am not sure how to find those. >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 8:47 AM William Prescott >> wrote: >> >>> A slight variation on Steve's suggestion. >>> >>> I made the mortgage payments a 'Scheduled Transaction' with some >>> nominal >>> values for principal and interest payments. Then, they were created >>> automatically, and I just edited them to get the amounts correct. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> On 2022 Aug 2, at 08-02 02:55:33, David T. via gnucash-user < >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: >>> >>> Steve, >>> >>> I expect others will give you ideas on how or what is mistaken on the >>> mortgage assistant. >>> >>> I, however, am going to suggest a different approach, which is to >>> forego >>> using the scheduled transactions/mortgage assistant altogether, and >>> simply >>> enter the monthly payments manually. >>> >>> The reason I suggest this is due to the fact that (as Michael Novak >>> often >>> reminds us on the list) your calculations and the bank's calculations >>> will >>> likely not match precisely, due to differences in base assumptions on >>> the >>> calculation. Because they won't match precisely, you'll end up editing >>> the >>> completed transactions. [For this reason, I truly wonder whether the >>> mortgage assistant is actually useful or should be included in the >>> program, >>> since it seems to cause more troubles than it solved. That's just my >>> opinion, however.] >>> >>> If, instead, you enter the transactions manually, Gnucash will autofill >>> the transaction with the last entered values, and you can quickly >>> modify >>> the amounts to match the bank statement. >>> >>> David T. >>> >>> >>> On August 1, 2022 11:59:06 PM GMT+03:00,"steve.schwa...@fastmail.com" >>> < >>> steve.schwa...@fastmail.com> wrote: All, Please help if you can. I think I've documented with the shots >>> required, but if you want to see something else, sing out. Somewhere I >>> am >>> missing a very basic concept. I'm trying to use the assistant to create >>> a >>> scheduled transaction. The file names describe each step. The file and >>> CoA >>> are dummies until I grasp this concept and move on to putting my 401kk >>> of >>> MUFUs into the tool. - I've used my current statement, due 1 July to match up a amortization >>> website to show the P&I due on 1 July. Amounts and start dates in the >>> assistant are configured to match those amounts. Curiously, the website >>> and >>> my statement show a different remaining balance, but that is outside >>> the >>> scope. - I step you through my assistant. - In the end I show you the result of the assistant, which shows the >>> correct P&I. Escrow is wrong, but I'm sure I can fix that in the >>
Re: [GNC] Stumped on Mortgage Asst - Screenshots
Thanks for the background folks. I appreciate the effort and will do the manual creation. However, I'm hardheaded enough that I want get the transaction to work within tolerances with a minimum of monthly intervention such as editing or reading bank statements. I have to go on record that P&I for July 2022 and May 2035 is more than simply fractions of pennies from various calculation assumptions. I don't need that sort of precision in tracking trends in my personal Net Worth reports. Is there a man page of sorts for the various functions, pmt, ipmt, ppmt? I'm sure one of the trailing zeros refers to whether payments are due at the beginning or end of the period, but can't imagine what the other may be. Meanwhile, I'll continue experimentation on my dummy data. Like I said, hardheaded. Steve On 8/2/22 10:17, David Carlson wrote: Steve, I am not going to open your zip file, I imagine it is just documenting the fact that the P & I calculations don't exactly match your lenders' statements, which is a known issue, unfixable since they all have their own way of calculating it. At least that was the case years ago when I last set one up. Many of us, like Will, just accept the numbers as estimates and correct them when we get the statements. There has been some discussion in the history here about how to massage the equations when we want to 'start in the middle' for an existing loan, for example, but I am not sure how to find those. On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 8:47 AM William Prescott wrote: A slight variation on Steve's suggestion. I made the mortgage payments a 'Scheduled Transaction' with some nominal values for principal and interest payments. Then, they were created automatically, and I just edited them to get the amounts correct. Will On 2022 Aug 2, at 08-02 02:55:33, David T. via gnucash-user < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: Steve, I expect others will give you ideas on how or what is mistaken on the mortgage assistant. I, however, am going to suggest a different approach, which is to forego using the scheduled transactions/mortgage assistant altogether, and simply enter the monthly payments manually. The reason I suggest this is due to the fact that (as Michael Novak often reminds us on the list) your calculations and the bank's calculations will likely not match precisely, due to differences in base assumptions on the calculation. Because they won't match precisely, you'll end up editing the completed transactions. [For this reason, I truly wonder whether the mortgage assistant is actually useful or should be included in the program, since it seems to cause more troubles than it solved. That's just my opinion, however.] If, instead, you enter the transactions manually, Gnucash will autofill the transaction with the last entered values, and you can quickly modify the amounts to match the bank statement. David T. On August 1, 2022 11:59:06 PM GMT+03:00,"steve.schwa...@fastmail.com" < steve.schwa...@fastmail.com> wrote: All, Please help if you can. I think I've documented with the shots required, but if you want to see something else, sing out. Somewhere I am missing a very basic concept. I'm trying to use the assistant to create a scheduled transaction. The file names describe each step. The file and CoA are dummies until I grasp this concept and move on to putting my 401kk of MUFUs into the tool. - I've used my current statement, due 1 July to match up a amortization website to show the P&I due on 1 July. Amounts and start dates in the assistant are configured to match those amounts. Curiously, the website and my statement show a different remaining balance, but that is outside the scope. - I step you through my assistant. - In the end I show you the result of the assistant, which shows the correct P&I. Escrow is wrong, but I'm sure I can fix that in the editor. I'll accumulate escrow each month and then schedule a payment from escrow asset to tax and insurance expenses once all the above works. - I let GnuCash enter the created transaction (ignoring from birth of the loan) and the transaction for 1 July 2022 is actually the P&I for 1 May 2035. TIA ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gn
Re: [GNC] Stumped on Mortgage Asst - Screenshots
Steve, I am not going to open your zip file, I imagine it is just documenting the fact that the P & I calculations don't exactly match your lenders' statements, which is a known issue, unfixable since they all have their own way of calculating it. At least that was the case years ago when I last set one up. Many of us, like Will, just accept the numbers as estimates and correct them when we get the statements. There has been some discussion in the history here about how to massage the equations when we want to 'start in the middle' for an existing loan, for example, but I am not sure how to find those. On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 8:47 AM William Prescott wrote: > A slight variation on Steve's suggestion. > > I made the mortgage payments a 'Scheduled Transaction' with some nominal > values for principal and interest payments. Then, they were created > automatically, and I just edited them to get the amounts correct. > > Will > > On 2022 Aug 2, at 08-02 02:55:33, David T. via gnucash-user < > gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: > > Steve, > > I expect others will give you ideas on how or what is mistaken on the > mortgage assistant. > > I, however, am going to suggest a different approach, which is to forego > using the scheduled transactions/mortgage assistant altogether, and simply > enter the monthly payments manually. > > The reason I suggest this is due to the fact that (as Michael Novak often > reminds us on the list) your calculations and the bank's calculations will > likely not match precisely, due to differences in base assumptions on the > calculation. Because they won't match precisely, you'll end up editing the > completed transactions. [For this reason, I truly wonder whether the > mortgage assistant is actually useful or should be included in the program, > since it seems to cause more troubles than it solved. That's just my > opinion, however.] > > If, instead, you enter the transactions manually, Gnucash will autofill > the transaction with the last entered values, and you can quickly modify > the amounts to match the bank statement. > > David T. > > > On August 1, 2022 11:59:06 PM GMT+03:00, "steve.schwa...@fastmail.com" < > steve.schwa...@fastmail.com> wrote: > > All, > > > > Please help if you can. I think I've documented with the shots > required, but if you want to see something else, sing out. Somewhere I am > missing a very basic concept. I'm trying to use the assistant to create a > scheduled transaction. The file names describe each step. The file and CoA > are dummies until I grasp this concept and move on to putting my 401kk of > MUFUs into the tool. > > > > - I've used my current statement, due 1 July to match up a amortization > website to show the P&I due on 1 July. Amounts and start dates in the > assistant are configured to match those amounts. Curiously, the website and > my statement show a different remaining balance, but that is outside the > scope. > > > > - I step you through my assistant. > > > > - In the end I show you the result of the assistant, which shows the > correct P&I. Escrow is wrong, but I'm sure I can fix that in the editor. > I'll accumulate escrow each month and then schedule a payment from escrow > asset to tax and insurance expenses once all the above works. > > > > - I let GnuCash enter the created transaction (ignoring from birth of > the loan) and the transaction for 1 July 2022 is actually the P&I for 1 May > 2035. > > > > > > TIA > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- David Carlson ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Stumped on Mortgage Asst - Screenshots
A slight variation on Steve's suggestion. I made the mortgage payments a 'Scheduled Transaction' with some nominal values for principal and interest payments. Then, they were created automatically, and I just edited them to get the amounts correct. Will On 2022 Aug 2, at 08-02 02:55:33, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: Steve, I expect others will give you ideas on how or what is mistaken on the mortgage assistant. I, however, am going to suggest a different approach, which is to forego using the scheduled transactions/mortgage assistant altogether, and simply enter the monthly payments manually. The reason I suggest this is due to the fact that (as Michael Novak often reminds us on the list) your calculations and the bank's calculations will likely not match precisely, due to differences in base assumptions on the calculation. Because they won't match precisely, you'll end up editing the completed transactions. [For this reason, I truly wonder whether the mortgage assistant is actually useful or should be included in the program, since it seems to cause more troubles than it solved. That's just my opinion, however.] If, instead, you enter the transactions manually, Gnucash will autofill the transaction with the last entered values, and you can quickly modify the amounts to match the bank statement. David T. On August 1, 2022 11:59:06 PM GMT+03:00, "steve.schwa...@fastmail.com" wrote: > All, > > Please help if you can. I think I've documented with the shots required, > but if you want to see something else, sing out. Somewhere I am missing a > very basic concept. I'm trying to use the assistant to create a scheduled > transaction. The file names describe each step. The file and CoA are dummies > until I grasp this concept and move on to putting my 401kk of MUFUs into the > tool. > > - I've used my current statement, due 1 July to match up a amortization > website to show the P&I due on 1 July. Amounts and start dates in the > assistant are configured to match those amounts. Curiously, the website and > my statement show a different remaining balance, but that is outside the > scope. > > - I step you through my assistant. > > - In the end I show you the result of the assistant, which shows the correct > P&I. Escrow is wrong, but I'm sure I can fix that in the editor. I'll > accumulate escrow each month and then schedule a payment from escrow asset to > tax and insurance expenses once all the above works. > > - I let GnuCash enter the created transaction (ignoring from birth of the > loan) and the transaction for 1 July 2022 is actually the P&I for 1 May 2035. > > > TIA ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Stumped on Mortgage Asst - Screenshots
Steve, I expect others will give you ideas on how or what is mistaken on the mortgage assistant. I, however, am going to suggest a different approach, which is to forego using the scheduled transactions/mortgage assistant altogether, and simply enter the monthly payments manually. The reason I suggest this is due to the fact that (as Michael Novak often reminds us on the list) your calculations and the bank's calculations will likely not match precisely, due to differences in base assumptions on the calculation. Because they won't match precisely, you'll end up editing the completed transactions. [For this reason, I truly wonder whether the mortgage assistant is actually useful or should be included in the program, since it seems to cause more troubles than it solved. That's just my opinion, however.] If, instead, you enter the transactions manually, Gnucash will autofill the transaction with the last entered values, and you can quickly modify the amounts to match the bank statement. David T. On August 1, 2022 11:59:06 PM GMT+03:00, "steve.schwa...@fastmail.com" wrote: >All, > > Please help if you can. I think I've documented with the shots required, >but if you want to see something else, sing out. Somewhere I am missing a very >basic concept. I'm trying to use the assistant to create a scheduled >transaction. The file names describe each step. The file and CoA are dummies >until I grasp this concept and move on to putting my 401kk of MUFUs into the >tool. > >- I've used my current statement, due 1 July to match up a amortization >website to show the P&I due on 1 July. Amounts and start dates in the >assistant are configured to match those amounts. Curiously, the website and my >statement show a different remaining balance, but that is outside the scope. > >- I step you through my assistant. > >- In the end I show you the result of the assistant, which shows the correct >P&I. Escrow is wrong, but I'm sure I can fix that in the editor. I'll >accumulate escrow each month and then schedule a payment from escrow asset to >tax and insurance expenses once all the above works. > >- I let GnuCash enter the created transaction (ignoring from birth of the >loan) and the transaction for 1 July 2022 is actually the P&I for 1 May 2035. > > >TIA ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
