[GNC] : What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
Normally I would always wish, even for hidden accounts, that any balance would be included in the totals, otherwise my balance sheet would not add up and assets would not equal equity plus liabilities. If I did not want the balance to be reflected in totals, I would clear it off with an accounting entry which complies with normal accounting double entry principles and has a debit and a credit. I would not expect the user's manual to state that balances in hidden accounts still effect totals, as it would go without saying in any accounting system. To do otherwise would be a bug, unless it were an option. But its hard to be definitive without knowing the purposes of wishing balances in hidden accounts not to be reflected in totals, as others have said. David Long -Original Message- From: gnucash-user On Behalf Of gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org Sent: Friday, 22 July, 2022 5:00 PM To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: gnucash-user Digest, Vol 232, Issue 41 Send gnucash-user mailing list submissions to gnucash-user@gnucash.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org You can reach the person managing the list at gnucash-user-ow...@gnucash.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of gnucash-user digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: GC4.10 on Win10 Crashing (A Harvey) 2. Re: What is the intended effect of hiding an account ? (David Carlson) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:20:25 -0400 From: A Harvey To: john Cc: "David T." , GnuCash List , Adrien Monteleone Subject: Re: [GNC] GC4.10 on Win10 Crashing Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" John, Thanks for the pointer on how to get a stack trace. I will see whether I can find anything useful. Either way, I will try the Sqlite3 backend eventually. I do have File History turned on and I actually did use it to recover a file once. I'll have to learn more about how to recover from potentially catastrophic user mistakes before I try the database (e.g. increase frequency of File History saves). Some years ago before the CSV importer allowed saving of configurations, I imported a large number of transactions but forgot to change the date format from the default to the U.S. format. The dates of the imported transactions were sprayed all over the timeline. Fortunately, I had done a save before that and quit Gnucash without saving the erroneous data. -Arthur On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 1:57 PM john wrote: > Remember that you can get automatic save on each transaction by > switching to the Sqlite3 backend by using File>Save As... and > selecting Sqlite3 from the drop-down at the top of the dialog box. > Note that Sqlite3 changes the file in place so there are no GnuCash > backups. Set up File History or some other automatic backup program instead. > > That's not to suggest that you shouldn't figure out as much as you can > about the cause of the crashes and then file a bug report. The > absolute best information is a stack trace, but that can be a bit > challenging on Windows. See > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Stack_Trace#Windows for instructions. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > > > On Jul 21, 2022, at 8:47 AM, A Harvey wrote: > > I have a similar problem. It occurs in both 4.10.x and 4.11. I think > it also occurred in 4.9 but can't remember. I encountered it on > windows 10 and windows 11. I run Gnucash monthly. Importing CSV bank > and credit card statements always works. I don't import investment > transactions as massaging the data to import as a CSV would be more > work than just entering them directly. Typically, I either start > typing a transaction and then accept the suggested description and > transfer account, or I duplicate an existing transaction and modify > the amounts. Most of the transactions are automatic dividend/interest reinvestments for stock/bond funds. > Here is the problem. I will enter several investment transactions, > then type ctl-s or click the save button. Sometimes Gnucash exits > without saving and without deleting the lock file. This will happen > roughly 3 times over the course of entering 25 or so transactions. > Some subset of unsaved transactions are lost. I've developed the > habit of saving after each transaction so that I never have more than > one unsaved transaction when it crashes. I haven't been able to > detect any pattern with respect to which accounts, what types of > transaction or other factors may be involved. Restarting Gnucash and > reentering the lost transaction exactly as before works fine. > > I will enable the logging (-debug and -extra? I'll read the Wiki on > how to turn
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
Sorry, I was not really paying attention to who was answering which question. It is very hard to do when Gmail is butchering the thread sequence. On Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:44 PM Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > On 7/21/2022 4:53 PM, David Carlson wrote: > > Perhaps another user misunderstood your question. John R is a major > > developer and he has a very good idea of what is going on inside the > > program. Clarifying the documentation is always appreciated. > > David, I was NOT asking about how the program worked or about the > documentation. I have not worked on THIS project but am a retired senior > systems analyst and senior business analyst, decades in the cypher mines > for one of the world's largest "financials". > > I was asking about PURPOSE. > > I can see clear uses for hiding sub accounts but having their contents > included in the (parental) total. But it is far less clear under what > circumstances you would want sub accounts (that had non-zero balances) > to NOT be included in the (parental) total when the sub accounts were > hidden. That's the behavior that was being asked about. > > Documentation unclear that this is not what happens? Unless a clear > purpose, I would consider NOT including in the totals a more or less > obvious accounting error. The documentation is supposed to clarify > "gnucash does not make this error", "gnucash does not make that error?, > etc. > > That's why I was asking "under what circumstances would you NOT want the > hidden accounts included in the parental total?" Wearing the business > analyst hat, not the systems analyst hat. > > Michael D Novack > > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
On 7/21/2022 4:53 PM, David Carlson wrote: Perhaps another user misunderstood your question. John R is a major developer and he has a very good idea of what is going on inside the program. Clarifying the documentation is always appreciated. David, I was NOT asking about how the program worked or about the documentation. I have not worked on THIS project but am a retired senior systems analyst and senior business analyst, decades in the cypher mines for one of the world's largest "financials". I was asking about PURPOSE. I can see clear uses for hiding sub accounts but having their contents included in the (parental) total. But it is far less clear under what circumstances you would want sub accounts (that had non-zero balances) to NOT be included in the (parental) total when the sub accounts were hidden. That's the behavior that was being asked about. Documentation unclear that this is not what happens? Unless a clear purpose, I would consider NOT including in the totals a more or less obvious accounting error. The documentation is supposed to clarify "gnucash does not make this error", "gnucash does not make that error?, etc. That's why I was asking "under what circumstances would you NOT want the hidden accounts included in the parental total?" Wearing the business analyst hat, not the systems analyst hat. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
You would be advised to read https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Documentation_Improvement On July 22, 2022 12:18:37 AM GMT+03:00, Tom Browder wrote: >On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 15:53 David Carlson >wrote: > >> Perhaps another user misunderstood your question. John R is a major >> developer and he has a very good idea of what is going on inside the >> program. >> > >David, I probably misunderstood (the conversation got a little >unstructured), but it's not clearly stated in anything I could find. > >Clarifying the documentation is always appreciated. >> > >That brings to mind another question: which is the preferred set for a >user to work on? I started on a fork of the xml source, but I just found >again the docs on github for the rst version which are a *lot* easier to >edit. > >-Tom >___ >gnucash-user mailing list >gnucash-user@gnucash.org >To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >- >Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 15:53 David Carlson wrote: > Perhaps another user misunderstood your question. John R is a major > developer and he has a very good idea of what is going on inside the > program. > David, I probably misunderstood (the conversation got a little unstructured), but it's not clearly stated in anything I could find. Clarifying the documentation is always appreciated. > That brings to mind another question: which is the preferred set for a user to work on? I started on a fork of the xml source, but I just found again the docs on github for the rst version which are a *lot* easier to edit. -Tom ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
Perhaps another user misunderstood your question. John R is a major developer and he has a very good idea of what is going on inside the program. Clarifying the documentation is always appreciated. On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:09 PM Tom Browder wrote: > On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 14:45 Michael or Penny Novack < > stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > On 7/21/2022 2:13 PM, Tom Browder wrote: > > > >From my attempt at hiding several Asset subaccounts, the effect is to > > > remove it from view. It does *not* seem to remove its value from the > > Asset > > > total. > > > > > > But I wish it did! > > > > You might want to explain what you are trying to accomplish? > > > My main point is it is not clear in the docs what hiding an account means. > > In another thread I explained what I wanted to do and I was told hiding one > would remove it from the accounting equations. > > -Tom > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- David Carlson ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 14:45 Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > On 7/21/2022 2:13 PM, Tom Browder wrote: > > >From my attempt at hiding several Asset subaccounts, the effect is to > > remove it from view. It does *not* seem to remove its value from the > Asset > > total. > > > > But I wish it did! > > You might want to explain what you are trying to accomplish? My main point is it is not clear in the docs what hiding an account means. In another thread I explained what I wanted to do and I was told hiding one would remove it from the accounting equations. -Tom ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
On 7/21/2022 2:13 PM, Tom Browder wrote: >From my attempt at hiding several Asset subaccounts, the effect is to remove it from view. It does *not* seem to remove its value from the Asset total. But I wish it did! You might want to explain what you are trying to accomplish? I am puzzled by the very idea that you would want to hide an asset account that WAS still contributing to the asset total. I can't imagine what to suggest before knowing that. What are these accounts? Why do you want them hidden? I can see reasons to hide sub account that are contributing to a total AND have that behavior. But you seem to want them not contributing to the total. Reason? Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 13:53 David Carlson wrote: > Tom, > > If you really want to remove the value of an account from your data you > can enter a transaction to zero out the account the same way you close a > bank or credit card account by moving the funds to another location. > Okay, I get it. But the docs need to say that. I'm working on a doc PR and will try to find a place to say so. Thanks. -Tom ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
> On Jul 21, 2022, at 11:13 AM, Tom Browder wrote: > > From my attempt at hiding several Asset subaccounts, the effect is to > remove it from view. It does *not* seem to remove its value from the Asset > total. > > But I wish it did! The intent is to hide it from the Accounts page, nothing more. You can tailor the accounts that are used to calculate reports, but the summary bar in the UI only shows everything. If you have accounts that you only want to see sometimes or perhaps not at all you should consider tracking them in a separate book. Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
Tom, If you really want to remove the value of an account from your data you can enter a transaction to zero out the account the same way you close a bank or credit card account by moving the funds to another location. Alternatively, create an account balance report that only includes the subset of accounts that are of immediate interest for this purpose or that. On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 1:14 PM Tom Browder wrote: > From my attempt at hiding several Asset subaccounts, the effect is to > remove it from view. It does *not* seem to remove its value from the Asset > total. > > But I wish it did! > > -Tom > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- David Carlson ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
>From my attempt at hiding several Asset subaccounts, the effect is to remove it from view. It does *not* seem to remove its value from the Asset total. But I wish it did! -Tom ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
