Re: [GNC] withholding tax (Liz Dodd)
The normal process payment function only splits for the invoices/bills selected. So if you are paying one invoice, you get one payment split and one AR/AP split. If you are paying multiple invoices, you'll still only have one payment split, but one AR/AP split for each invoice/bill. If additional splits were part of the real-world transaction, you have to add them manually, ideally from the payment (source) account register. (not AR/AP) For example, I keep a jar of loose change and don't count that as part of my 'cash in wallet'. When I pay a bill in cash, I use the usual Process Payment for the exact amount. Then I edit the transaction to change the cash split to be the actual whole dollar amount I tendered, then add a debit split to my coin jar for the loose change. I've had some issue in the past with tracking down some cash discrepancies, so I record the actual tender amount, and I add a cash debit split for any cash change received. Now I can trace the actual currency flow if needed. This has helped me resolve a few errors or lapses in memory if I don't get to enter transactions right away. - And I agree on the 'starting point' and always enter any transaction from the source account register. Life is much simpler that way. Regards, Adrien On 10/2/20 10:10 AM, Michael or Penny Novack wrote: On 10/2/2020 12:18 AM, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote: Stan, I see what you are saying. Practically I think I need to process the invoice payment twice, first part payment (80) to Accounts Receivable then another payment (20) to Assets: WHT. But I don't seem to have this ability in gnucash because when I process an invoice payment in the 'post to' box only has Assets: Accounts Receivable as an option in the pull down menu. Help! Paul I don't use the business features so don't know if this is your problem. BUT -- it is always harder to enter a split transaction when starting from the "wrong" place. By wrong, in this case, I mean in the case of a one sided split, starting in an account other than the non-split side. When you are processing an invoice payment (when entering that) CAN you split? << others using the business features need to jump in here and say one way or the other -- for example, if you received one check from a customer that was intended to cover two invoices, could you enter that, and did that involve "split"? >> If the answer is yes, then what I suggest is that you learn how to enter a split transaction when you are starting from the "wrong place". Those of us who are keeping books for non-profits that sell "stuff" (fundraising) probably know how to do that since in entering the transaction involves "cash", "sales", "cost of goods sold", and "goods inventory" << split on BOTH sides so there can be no "right" place to start >> ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] withholding tax (Liz Dodd)
Typo in middle section:
Therefore your *only *currently available steps is (IMHO): process payment
as usual, for *$100 *only. This creates a regular transaction:
- asset:bank +100
- a/receivable -100 (to clear the invoice)
On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 15:26, Christopher Lam
wrote:
> While experimenting this problem, I found it exposes a subtle
> behaviour/bug... I was hoping to do the following manual assignment: create
> a transaction with 3 splits -
> - asset:bank +80
> - a/receivable -100
> - asset:WHT +20
> then right-click the transaction, assign $80 as payment for the invoice.
> But this will assign the 100 to the invoice then 20 as overpayment to the
> same customer. This is not what we want.
>
> Therefore your *only *currently available steps is (IMHO): process
> payment as usual, for $80 only. This creates a regular transaction:
> - asset:bank +100
> - a/receivable -100 (to clear the invoice)
>
> Then you will do *two* further modifications:
> 1. modify to include split to asset:WHT
> - asset:bank +80
> - a/receivable -100 (linked to invoice)
> - asset:WHT +20
> 2. import OFX/QIF from the bank, and match the OFX transaction to your
> asset:bank split. Thus:
> - asset:bank +80 (linked to OFX online_id)
> - a/receivable -100 (linked to invoice)
> - asset:WHT +20
>
> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 04:25, Paul W via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
>> Stan,
>>
>> I see what you are saying. Practically I think I need to process the
>> invoice payment twice, first part payment (80) to Accounts Receivable then
>> another payment (20) to Assets: WHT. But I don't seem to have this ability
>> in gnucash because when I process an invoice payment in the 'post to' box
>> only has Assets: Accounts Receivable as an option in the pull down menu.
>> Help!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On 2020-10-01 19:14, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote:
>> > Foreign Government A keeps this money and My Government B will credit
>> this amount against my corporation tax liability.
>> >
>> > My invoice is for the full amount, £100.
>> >
>> > Usually (without WHT) when the invoice is paid the full amount is
>> > sent to my Accounts Receivable. In this case I think the way to do it
>> > is for gnucash to send £100 to Accounts Receivable then £80 will go
>> > from here to my Asset: Bank Account and £20 to Asset: WHT. How do I
>> > achieve this in gnucash?
>>
>> Just to be clear, the answer to any question like this is always, "Think
>> of GnuCash as a pen-and-ink ledger. First determine what entries you
>> need to make, to cover your own accounting and tax needs. Once you know
>> that, you can make those entries in GnuCash."
>>
>>
>> > Do you agree this is the way to do it?
>>
>>
>> I don't think so. Since you will collect 80 pounds not 100, the amount
>> in receivables should, I think, be 80 pounds not 100. The 20 pounds is
>> an asset, but it is a prepaid tax expense and not a receivable.
>>
>> Debit: Assets: Receivable from {customer} 80
>> Debit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} 20
>> Credit: Income: Sales 100
>>
>> Then at the end of the year you make an adjusting entry:
>> Debit: Liabilities: Tax payable to {My Government) {total for the year}
>> Credit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} {same amount}
>>
>> That lets you track the amounts invoice by invoice or by annual totals.
>> For strictly accounting purposes, that is what I would do. However, your
>> country may mandate doing it in a particular way, so you may want to get
>> local advice on that point. There's no need to bring GnuCash into that
>> discussion; just ask how debits and credits should be recorded.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Stan Brown
>> Tehachapi, CA, USA
>> https://BrownMath.com
>> https://OakRoadSystems.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>
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Re: [GNC] withholding tax (Liz Dodd)
While experimenting this problem, I found it exposes a subtle
behaviour/bug... I was hoping to do the following manual assignment: create
a transaction with 3 splits -
- asset:bank +80
- a/receivable -100
- asset:WHT +20
then right-click the transaction, assign $80 as payment for the invoice.
But this will assign the 100 to the invoice then 20 as overpayment to the
same customer. This is not what we want.
Therefore your *only *currently available steps is (IMHO): process payment
as usual, for $80 only. This creates a regular transaction:
- asset:bank +100
- a/receivable -100 (to clear the invoice)
Then you will do *two* further modifications:
1. modify to include split to asset:WHT
- asset:bank +80
- a/receivable -100 (linked to invoice)
- asset:WHT +20
2. import OFX/QIF from the bank, and match the OFX transaction to your
asset:bank split. Thus:
- asset:bank +80 (linked to OFX online_id)
- a/receivable -100 (linked to invoice)
- asset:WHT +20
On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 04:25, Paul W via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
> Stan,
>
> I see what you are saying. Practically I think I need to process the
> invoice payment twice, first part payment (80) to Accounts Receivable then
> another payment (20) to Assets: WHT. But I don't seem to have this ability
> in gnucash because when I process an invoice payment in the 'post to' box
> only has Assets: Accounts Receivable as an option in the pull down menu.
> Help!
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 2020-10-01 19:14, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Foreign Government A keeps this money and My Government B will credit
> this amount against my corporation tax liability.
> >
> > My invoice is for the full amount, £100.
> >
> > Usually (without WHT) when the invoice is paid the full amount is
> > sent to my Accounts Receivable. In this case I think the way to do it
> > is for gnucash to send £100 to Accounts Receivable then £80 will go
> > from here to my Asset: Bank Account and £20 to Asset: WHT. How do I
> > achieve this in gnucash?
>
> Just to be clear, the answer to any question like this is always, "Think
> of GnuCash as a pen-and-ink ledger. First determine what entries you
> need to make, to cover your own accounting and tax needs. Once you know
> that, you can make those entries in GnuCash."
>
>
> > Do you agree this is the way to do it?
>
>
> I don't think so. Since you will collect 80 pounds not 100, the amount
> in receivables should, I think, be 80 pounds not 100. The 20 pounds is
> an asset, but it is a prepaid tax expense and not a receivable.
>
> Debit: Assets: Receivable from {customer} 80
> Debit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} 20
> Credit: Income: Sales 100
>
> Then at the end of the year you make an adjusting entry:
> Debit: Liabilities: Tax payable to {My Government) {total for the year}
> Credit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} {same amount}
>
> That lets you track the amounts invoice by invoice or by annual totals.
> For strictly accounting purposes, that is what I would do. However, your
> country may mandate doing it in a particular way, so you may want to get
> local advice on that point. There's no need to bring GnuCash into that
> discussion; just ask how debits and credits should be recorded.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
> https://OakRoadSystems.com
>
>
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
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Re: [GNC] withholding tax
On 10/2/2020 4:17 AM, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote: Thanks Maf, that does seem to work. Shame there's not an automatic way to do this as WHT isn't a tax from Mars! Doing in two transactions simply avoids the complexity of entering a split from the "wrong" account. It's just a little more work entering a split when not starting from where easiest. THAT is what my question about "can you do a split" at this point using the business features. If so, that IS the "automatic way" Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] withholding tax (Liz Dodd)
On 10/2/2020 12:18 AM, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote: Stan, I see what you are saying. Practically I think I need to process the invoice payment twice, first part payment (80) to Accounts Receivable then another payment (20) to Assets: WHT. But I don't seem to have this ability in gnucash because when I process an invoice payment in the 'post to' box only has Assets: Accounts Receivable as an option in the pull down menu. Help! Paul I don't use the business features so don't know if this is your problem. BUT -- it is always harder to enter a split transaction when starting from the "wrong" place. By wrong, in this case, I mean in the case of a one sided split, starting in an account other than the non-split side. When you are processing an invoice payment (when entering that) CAN you split? << others using the business features need to jump in here and say one way or the other -- for example, if you received one check from a customer that was intended to cover two invoices, could you enter that, and did that involve "split"? >> If the answer is yes, then what I suggest is that you learn how to enter a split transaction when you are starting from the "wrong place". Those of us who are keeping books for non-profits that sell "stuff" (fundraising) probably know how to do that since in entering the transaction involves "cash", "sales", "cost of goods sold", and "goods inventory" << split on BOTH sides so there can be no "right" place to start >> Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] withholding tax
Thanks Maf, that does seem to work. Shame there's not an automatic way to do
this as WHT isn't a tax from Mars!
On Friday, 2 October 2020, 15:09:37 GMT+8, Maf. King wrote:
Hi Paul,
A possible way to deal with this is to process the full payment to your bank
account, then go an manually split the witholding portion out of the
transaction as it appears in the bank account.
so step 1. process payment for the full £100
step 2. Go to the bank account, edit the transaction. Reduce the split into
the bank account to £80 and allocate the £20 to the WHT account.
(step 3 - check your work to see if it all makes sense for tax-return time!)
regards,
Maf.
On Friday, 2 October 2020 05:18:43 BST Paul W via gnucash-user wrote:
> Stan,
>
> I see what you are saying. Practically I think I need to process the invoice
> payment twice, first part payment (80) to Accounts Receivable then another
> payment (20) to Assets: WHT. But I don't seem to have this ability in
> gnucash because when I process an invoice payment in the 'post to' box only
> has Assets: Accounts Receivable as an option in the pull down menu. Help!
>
> Paul
>
> On 2020-10-01 19:14, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Foreign Government A keeps this money and My Government B will credit this
> > amount against my corporation tax liability.
> >
> > My invoice is for the full amount, £100.
> >
> > Usually (without WHT) when the invoice is paid the full amount is
> > sent to my Accounts Receivable. In this case I think the way to do it
> > is for gnucash to send £100 to Accounts Receivable then £80 will go
> > from here to my Asset: Bank Account and £20 to Asset: WHT. How do I
> > achieve this in gnucash?
>
> Just to be clear, the answer to any question like this is always, "Think
> of GnuCash as a pen-and-ink ledger. First determine what entries you
> need to make, to cover your own accounting and tax needs. Once you know
> that, you can make those entries in GnuCash."
>
> > Do you agree this is the way to do it?
>
> I don't think so. Since you will collect 80 pounds not 100, the amount
> in receivables should, I think, be 80 pounds not 100. The 20 pounds is
> an asset, but it is a prepaid tax expense and not a receivable.
>
> Debit: Assets: Receivable from {customer} 80
> Debit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} 20
> Credit: Income: Sales 100
>
> Then at the end of the year you make an adjusting entry:
> Debit: Liabilities: Tax payable to {My Government) {total for the year}
> Credit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} {same amount}
>
> That lets you track the amounts invoice by invoice or by annual totals.
> For strictly accounting purposes, that is what I would do. However, your
> country may mandate doing it in a particular way, so you may want to get
> local advice on that point. There's no need to bring GnuCash into that
> discussion; just ask how debits and credits should be recorded.
--
Maf. King
PGP Key fingerprint = 8D68 A91F 733B 2C1F 43B7 2B7C E591 E8E1 0DE7 C542
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Re: [GNC] withholding tax (Liz Dodd)
Hi Paul,
A possible way to deal with this is to process the full payment to your bank
account, then go an manually split the witholding portion out of the
transaction as it appears in the bank account.
so step 1. process payment for the full £100
step 2. Go to the bank account, edit the transaction. Reduce the split into
the bank account to £80 and allocate the £20 to the WHT account.
(step 3 - check your work to see if it all makes sense for tax-return time!)
regards,
Maf.
On Friday, 2 October 2020 05:18:43 BST Paul W via gnucash-user wrote:
> Stan,
>
> I see what you are saying. Practically I think I need to process the invoice
> payment twice, first part payment (80) to Accounts Receivable then another
> payment (20) to Assets: WHT. But I don't seem to have this ability in
> gnucash because when I process an invoice payment in the 'post to' box only
> has Assets: Accounts Receivable as an option in the pull down menu. Help!
>
> Paul
>
> On 2020-10-01 19:14, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Foreign Government A keeps this money and My Government B will credit this
> > amount against my corporation tax liability.
> >
> > My invoice is for the full amount, £100.
> >
> > Usually (without WHT) when the invoice is paid the full amount is
> > sent to my Accounts Receivable. In this case I think the way to do it
> > is for gnucash to send £100 to Accounts Receivable then £80 will go
> > from here to my Asset: Bank Account and £20 to Asset: WHT. How do I
> > achieve this in gnucash?
>
> Just to be clear, the answer to any question like this is always, "Think
> of GnuCash as a pen-and-ink ledger. First determine what entries you
> need to make, to cover your own accounting and tax needs. Once you know
> that, you can make those entries in GnuCash."
>
> > Do you agree this is the way to do it?
>
> I don't think so. Since you will collect 80 pounds not 100, the amount
> in receivables should, I think, be 80 pounds not 100. The 20 pounds is
> an asset, but it is a prepaid tax expense and not a receivable.
>
> Debit: Assets: Receivable from {customer} 80
> Debit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} 20
> Credit: Income: Sales 100
>
> Then at the end of the year you make an adjusting entry:
> Debit: Liabilities: Tax payable to {My Government) {total for the year}
> Credit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} {same amount}
>
> That lets you track the amounts invoice by invoice or by annual totals.
> For strictly accounting purposes, that is what I would do. However, your
> country may mandate doing it in a particular way, so you may want to get
> local advice on that point. There's no need to bring GnuCash into that
> discussion; just ask how debits and credits should be recorded.
--
Maf. King
PGP Key fingerprint = 8D68 A91F 733B 2C1F 43B7 2B7C E591 E8E1 0DE7 C542
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Re: [GNC] withholding tax (Liz Dodd)
Stan,
I see what you are saying. Practically I think I need to process the invoice
payment twice, first part payment (80) to Accounts Receivable then another
payment (20) to Assets: WHT. But I don't seem to have this ability in gnucash
because when I process an invoice payment in the 'post to' box only has Assets:
Accounts Receivable as an option in the pull down menu. Help!
Paul
On 2020-10-01 19:14, Paul W via gnucash-user wrote:
> Foreign Government A keeps this money and My Government B will credit this
> amount against my corporation tax liability.
>
> My invoice is for the full amount, £100.
>
> Usually (without WHT) when the invoice is paid the full amount is
> sent to my Accounts Receivable. In this case I think the way to do it
> is for gnucash to send £100 to Accounts Receivable then £80 will go
> from here to my Asset: Bank Account and £20 to Asset: WHT. How do I
> achieve this in gnucash?
Just to be clear, the answer to any question like this is always, "Think
of GnuCash as a pen-and-ink ledger. First determine what entries you
need to make, to cover your own accounting and tax needs. Once you know
that, you can make those entries in GnuCash."
> Do you agree this is the way to do it?
I don't think so. Since you will collect 80 pounds not 100, the amount
in receivables should, I think, be 80 pounds not 100. The 20 pounds is
an asset, but it is a prepaid tax expense and not a receivable.
Debit: Assets: Receivable from {customer} 80
Debit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} 20
Credit: Income: Sales 100
Then at the end of the year you make an adjusting entry:
Debit: Liabilities: Tax payable to {My Government) {total for the year}
Credit: Assets: Tax prepaid to {Foreign Government} {same amount}
That lets you track the amounts invoice by invoice or by annual totals.
For strictly accounting purposes, that is what I would do. However, your
country may mandate doing it in a particular way, so you may want to get
local advice on that point. There's no need to bring GnuCash into that
discussion; just ask how debits and credits should be recorded.
--
Regards,
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
https://OakRoadSystems.com
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Re: [GNC] withholding tax (Liz Dodd)
Foreign Government A keeps this money and My Government B will credit this amount against my corporation tax liability. My invoice is for the full amount, £100. Usually (without WHT) when the invoice is paid the full amount is sent to my Accounts Receivable. In this case I think the way to do it is for gnucash to send £100 to Accounts Receivable then £80 will go from here to my Asset: Bank Account and £20 to Asset: WHT. How do I achieve this in gnucash? Do you agree this is the way to do it? On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 05:41:31 + (UTC) Paul W via gnucash-user wrote: > I invoice my client ?100 for services provided. They process my > invoice and pay me the balance of ?80 after deducting 20% (?20) > withholding tax which they give to foreign government A. How do I > account for this withholding tax in gnucash? > ___ Just think about how you record this with pen and ink But first, will you ever see the ?20 again? Does Foreign Government A pay this back at some time? Will you be credited this by your government instead? According to the answer, that tells you how you might note this on paper. Until you have spoken to your accounting expert in your own country, put this ?20 in an account of it's own, Asset:Withholding Tax:Country A Later you move this to a preferred place in your account structure Liz -- ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] withholding tax
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 05:41:31 + (UTC) Paul W via gnucash-user wrote: > I invoice my client £100 for services provided. They process my > invoice and pay me the balance of £80 after deducting 20% (£20) > withholding tax which they give to foreign government A. How do I > account for this withholding tax in gnucash? > ___ Just think about how you record this with pen and ink But first, will you ever see the £20 again? Does Foreign Government A pay this back at some time? Will you be credited this by your government instead? According to the answer, that tells you how you might note this on paper. Until you have spoken to your accounting expert in your own country, put this £20 in an account of it's own, Asset:Withholding Tax:Country A Later you move this to a preferred place in your account structure Liz ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] withholding tax
I invoice my client £100 for services provided. They process my invoice and pay me the balance of £80 after deducting 20% (£20) withholding tax which they give to foreign government A. How do I account for this withholding tax in gnucash? ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
