Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
peter A pretty fair summary. On Q2. It is not so much a question of what GnuCash likes as one of standard accounting practice. Not sure where your finance guy learned his accounting. GnuCash implements what is known as a double entry accounting system. Every transaction debits one account and credits another and the system of accounts in general obeys a set of rules about the sums of debits and credits in a transaction (among others) that satisfy what is known as the accounting equation which defines the relationships between the different types of accounts. Section 4.63 of the Conceptual Framework of the IFRS (International Accounting Standards) defines Equity as the residual interest in Assets after subtracting any Liabilities against those assets. This is the same definition as in GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Practice) which will be found in the standards of most countries, even those who have not adopted the IFRS formally at this stage (US for example). If Equity accounts are held under Liabilities the balances of Assets and Liabilities and Equity will no longer reflect the relationship Assets - Liabilities = Equity. This is usually expressed as Assets = Liabilities + Equity +Income -Expenses. Income(or Revenue) and Expenses are both also equity accounts but only record transactions for the current period ( and are called temporary accounts for this reason) in traditional accounting practice and are closed to Equity at the end of the accounting period in manual pen/paper bookkeeping. GnuCash however does not require a formal closing in the traditional manner, although it can be done if required, as its reporting system performs the necessary calculations in constructing the reports for a given period. David - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
No apology needed. It happens to all of us. -P. On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 1:07 AM Adrien Monteleone < adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: > Apologies for the 'noise' Peter. At the time I sent my reply, I didn't > see *any* answers to your questions. (which appears to be an issue with > how I access the mailing list, not you or those who replied.) I'm glad > you've got it worked out. > > Regards, > Adrien > > On 1/16/21 9:49 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote: > > Hi, Andrien, > > > > And thanks. > > > > If you look back up to the last email of mine in this thread, you will > see > > that all the issues I mentioned have been successfully addressed. > > > > I've now set up all my accounts and have created opening balances by > means > > of transactions involving each account together with Equity:Opening > > Balances, as you (and others) suggested. > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
Apologies for the 'noise' Peter. At the time I sent my reply, I didn't see *any* answers to your questions. (which appears to be an issue with how I access the mailing list, not you or those who replied.) I'm glad you've got it worked out. Regards, Adrien On 1/16/21 9:49 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote: Hi, Andrien, And thanks. If you look back up to the last email of mine in this thread, you will see that all the issues I mentioned have been successfully addressed. I've now set up all my accounts and have created opening balances by means of transactions involving each account together with Equity:Opening Balances, as you (and others) suggested. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
Hi, Andrien, And thanks. If you look back up to the last email of mine in this thread, you will see that all the issues I mentioned have been successfully addressed. I've now set up all my accounts and have created opening balances by means of transactions involving each account together with Equity:Opening Balances, as you (and others) suggested. -P. On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 10:35 PM Adrien Monteleone < adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: > On 1/15/21 11:53 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote: > > Hi > > > > I've recently volunteered to take over as treasurer of a non-profit. The > > previous treasurer was keeping his accounts with a different (tty-based) > > system and I wanted to try Gnucash instead. > > > > 1. After having set up my accounts, I looked at the documentation and saw > > that Opening Balances are supposed to be entered when accounts are first > > created. Is there a workaround, or do I have to go through the whole > > account setup process again? And what do you do if you make a mistake! > (No > > transactions have been made so far.) > > There is nothing special about an Opening Balances entry. It is simply a > transaction balanced between whatever account is in question and > "Equity:Opening Balances", and can be entered at any time after the > initial setup, if not done during setup. > > > > 2. I wanted to keep Equity under Liabilities (only because the previous > > treasurer was doing this), but after I put it there (with the Opening > > Balances subaccount beneath it), GnuCash created a top-level Opening > > Balances account. When I delete it, it comes back. Is there a way I can > use > > the schema with Equity under Liabilities? > > I am not certain, but that is certainly not standard accounting > behavior/practice as I understand it. > > The 'basic' accounting equation is: Assets = Liability + Equity > > Therefore, Equity is not a sub-account of Liability, but its own > 'top-level' account. It should not be (maybe depending on legal > jurisdiction) listed under Liability. > > > > 3. Is there a way to set the top-level display order of accounts other > than > > by using the "optional" account numbering scheme and ordering by the > > numbers? > > Not sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you be more specific? > > Regards, > Adrien > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
On 1/15/21 11:53 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote: Hi I've recently volunteered to take over as treasurer of a non-profit. The previous treasurer was keeping his accounts with a different (tty-based) system and I wanted to try Gnucash instead. 1. After having set up my accounts, I looked at the documentation and saw that Opening Balances are supposed to be entered when accounts are first created. Is there a workaround, or do I have to go through the whole account setup process again? And what do you do if you make a mistake! (No transactions have been made so far.) There is nothing special about an Opening Balances entry. It is simply a transaction balanced between whatever account is in question and "Equity:Opening Balances", and can be entered at any time after the initial setup, if not done during setup. 2. I wanted to keep Equity under Liabilities (only because the previous treasurer was doing this), but after I put it there (with the Opening Balances subaccount beneath it), GnuCash created a top-level Opening Balances account. When I delete it, it comes back. Is there a way I can use the schema with Equity under Liabilities? I am not certain, but that is certainly not standard accounting behavior/practice as I understand it. The 'basic' accounting equation is: Assets = Liability + Equity Therefore, Equity is not a sub-account of Liability, but its own 'top-level' account. It should not be (maybe depending on legal jurisdiction) listed under Liability. 3. Is there a way to set the top-level display order of accounts other than by using the "optional" account numbering scheme and ordering by the numbers? Not sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you be more specific? Regards, Adrien ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
First, to all who responded, Thank you. Summary follows: Q1: (Adding Opening Balances after setting up the account) Yes, using transactions is the obvious solution. Clearly, I am an accounting newby as well as a Gnucash newby. Q2: (Whether I can keep Equities under Liabilities) I was told by the previous treasurer (who is a finance guy) that this is the accepted International (as opposed to GAAP) practice. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I'm reverting back to keeping Equity separate, because that is what Gnucash likes. Q3: (How to order my accounts in my favored arbitrary order) It appears that numbering them and then ordering by number is the only way. On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 3:33 AM David Cousens wrote: > Peter, > Just one other point. the numbering of the top level accounts will also > affect the order in which they appear in reports. I may have given the > impression that this wasn't the case in my first post. > > David Cousens > > > > - > David Cousens > -- > Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
Peter, Just one other point. the numbering of the top level accounts will also affect the order in which they appear in reports. I may have given the impression that this wasn't the case in my first post. David Cousens - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 00:53:38 -0500 "Peter S. Shenkin" wrote: > 2. I wanted to keep Equity under Liabilities (only because the > previous treasurer was doing this), but after I put it there (with > the Opening Balances subaccount beneath it), GnuCash created a > top-level Opening Balances account. When I delete it, it comes back. > Is there a way I can use the schema with Equity under Liabilities? Perhaps there is, but the difficulty you are finding suggests that this may not be a good idea accounting wise. Best advice is to see (or telephone) the accountant responsible for the audit or other checks on the non-profit and set it up under their guidance. Liz ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
Peter, Q1 You can create transactions between any of your assets and liability accounts at any time. The setup routine gives you the opportunity to do this while setting upp the accounts. It is just a normal transaction but you would normally create this at the date on which you open the books with the balances of the requisite external accounts at that date. Q2. Liabilities would not be kept under Equity in any accounting practice anywhere. Your previous treasurer was not following any standard accounting practice. It will actually work since the debit and credit entries have the same sense for Liability and Equity accounts, but it removes the ability of the balance of the Equity accounts to reflect the overall financial state of the set of books and a Balance Sheet report would be effectively useless without external manipulation. Q3 .Using the account numbering scheme is the way to make accounts appear in a particular order within the standard top level account headings Assets, Liabilities, Equity, Income and Expenses. There are standard numbering scheme often used in some accounting practice. There are some discussions of the reasons for numbering schemes and some standard practice at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_of_accounts#:~:text=Account%20numbers%20are%20often%20five,%2C%22%20it%20is%20an%20asset. and https://www.accountingtools.com/articles/chart-of-accounts-numbering.html or https://www.accountingcoach.com/chart-of-accounts/explanation. Some counties require a particular order in the presentation of accounts in financial reports. The account numbers in GnuCash are a multidigit number with no internal punctuation AFAIK so make sure you have enough digits for the numbe rof levels of sub-accounts in your account heirarchy. David Cousens - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts
Hi Peter, and welcome to the GnuCash world. Q1. The recommended practice is to create an Equity::Opening Balances account and use that as the contra-account for all your opening balance entries. It won't be a problem doing this after you have started entering other transactions, just choose an appropriate date. Further details here: https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/txns-puttoget1.html Q2. I'll leave for someone else to answer. Q3. If you are referring to the main "Accounts" tab, you can sort (within the account hierarchy) by clicking on the column heading, by: Account Code, Name, Description, or even Notes P.S. To expose / hide columns, click on the triangle on the far right side of the column headings. Some of the reports have sorting options too. Hope this helps. Regards Geoff = On 16/01/2021 4:53 pm, Peter S. Shenkin wrote: Hi I've recently volunteered to take over as treasurer of a non-profit. The previous treasurer was keeping his accounts with a different (tty-based) system and I wanted to try Gnucash instead. 1. After having set up my accounts, I looked at the documentation and saw that Opening Balances are supposed to be entered when accounts are first created. Is there a workaround, or do I have to go through the whole account setup process again? And what do you do if you make a mistake! (No transactions have been made so far.) 2. I wanted to keep Equity under Liabilities (only because the previous treasurer was doing this), but after I put it there (with the Opening Balances subaccount beneath it), GnuCash created a top-level Opening Balances account. When I delete it, it comes back. Is there a way I can use the schema with Equity under Liabilities? 3. Is there a way to set the top-level display order of accounts other than by using the "optional" account numbering scheme and ordering by the numbers? Thank you, -P. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
