Any plans for GnuPG to implement decrypting to RAM?

2008-02-05 Thread Kevin Hilton
Just wonder if GnuPG, similar to PGP, would implement decrypting files
to RAM rather than swap, or to allow user to pick location.

-- 
Kevin Hilton

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Re: Any plans for GnuPG to implement decrypting to RAM?

2008-02-05 Thread David Shaw
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 10:36:41PM -0600, Kevin Hilton wrote:
> Just wonder if GnuPG, similar to PGP, would implement decrypting files
> to RAM rather than swap, or to allow user to pick location.

What does decrypt to swap mean?  For that matter, what does decrypt to
RAM mean?

Decryption:

  gpg -o /pick/your/own/destination -d file-to-decrypt.gpg

  gpg -d file-to-decrypt.gpg > redirect-to-a-file

  gpg -d file-to-decrypt.gpg | pipe-to-whatever-you-want

It's in the manual.

David

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Re: Anti-Tempest Fonts, Where?

2008-02-05 Thread Robert J. Hansen

Hideki Saito wrote:

Makes me curious, how relevant is it these days, especially with age
of (presumably) lower emission LCD screen?


An unshielded monitor cable puts out a lot of RF, regardless of what 
kind of monitor it's plugged into.  LCDs can be Van Ecked, just as can CRTs.



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Re: Anti-Tempest Fonts, Where?

2008-02-05 Thread Hideki Saito
Makes me curious, how relevant is it these days, especially with age
of (presumably) lower emission LCD screen?

On Feb 5, 2008 11:00 AM, David Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 02, 2008 at 06:16:23AM +0100, George Orwell wrote:
> > man gpg
> >
> > the above cmd mentions anti tempest fonts. what does this mean
> > exactly? where are the anti-tempest fonts? i've searched the
> > net for them and cannot find them. the only mention of soft
> > tempest fonts were within a .zip containing image files claimed
> > to be for example only.
> >
> > do tempest resistant fonts exist?
>
> No.  Or at least, not any longer.  There was a font package available
> a few years ago that was an offshoot of some work done by Markus Kuhn
> and Ross Anderson at the University of Cambridge.  More recently, they
> improved the attack enough that the fonts were no longer effective.
>
> See
>   http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/emsec/softtempest-faq.html
>
> I'll update the manual so it does not reference the fonts any longer.
>
> David
>
>
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-- 
Hideki Saito

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Re: can you see any problem with this?

2008-02-05 Thread Adrian Thurston
Yes I think I can live with those characteristics of the system. Thanks for 
your analysis!

-Adrian  
-Original Message-
From: David Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:50:56 
To:Adrian Thurston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Subject: Re: can you see any problem with this?


On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 01:28:08PM -0500, Adrian Thurston wrote:
> My application is here:
> 
> http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~thurston/fif/
> 
> I'm encrypting messages and making them publicly available over static
> HTTP. Anyone who knows the right URL can grab a message and I don't want
> recipients to be identifiable.
> 
> Another issue is that the number of recipients and the size of messages
> may both get very large. A single encrypted message is therefore very
> attractive.

In that case, doing something like this may work for you:

gpg -o output.gpg -R recipient1 -R recipient2 -e thefile.txt
gpgsplit output.gpg

for i in *.pk_enc
do
  cat $i *.encrypted > `echo $i | sed -e 's/\-001\.pk_enc//'`
done

You'll end up with a directory full of files, one per recipient, and
each a valid OpenPGP message, but all of them protected via
throw-keyid.  I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine
which file goes with which recipient ;)

Caveats:
  If Alice and Baker both get a message, and Alice knows which file
  Baker got, Alice can decrypt Baker's message using her own session
  key, thus revealing to Alice that Baker got the same message that
  Alice did.

  The "non-identifiable" feature with -R (aka throw-keyid) is only as
  good as throw-keyid is, which is pretty good but not perfect.

You may or may not care about these caveats.

David


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Re: Anti-Tempest Fonts, Where?

2008-02-05 Thread David Shaw
On Sat, Feb 02, 2008 at 06:16:23AM +0100, George Orwell wrote:
> man gpg
> 
> the above cmd mentions anti tempest fonts. what does this mean
> exactly? where are the anti-tempest fonts? i've searched the
> net for them and cannot find them. the only mention of soft
> tempest fonts were within a .zip containing image files claimed
> to be for example only.
> 
> do tempest resistant fonts exist?

No.  Or at least, not any longer.  There was a font package available
a few years ago that was an offshoot of some work done by Markus Kuhn
and Ross Anderson at the University of Cambridge.  More recently, they
improved the attack enough that the fonts were no longer effective.

See
  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/emsec/softtempest-faq.html

I'll update the manual so it does not reference the fonts any longer.

David

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Re: can you see any problem with this?

2008-02-05 Thread David Shaw
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 01:28:08PM -0500, Adrian Thurston wrote:
> My application is here:
> 
> http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~thurston/fif/
> 
> I'm encrypting messages and making them publicly available over static
> HTTP. Anyone who knows the right URL can grab a message and I don't want
> recipients to be identifiable.
> 
> Another issue is that the number of recipients and the size of messages
> may both get very large. A single encrypted message is therefore very
> attractive.

In that case, doing something like this may work for you:

gpg -o output.gpg -R recipient1 -R recipient2 -e thefile.txt
gpgsplit output.gpg

for i in *.pk_enc
do
  cat $i *.encrypted > `echo $i | sed -e 's/\-001\.pk_enc//'`
done

You'll end up with a directory full of files, one per recipient, and
each a valid OpenPGP message, but all of them protected via
throw-keyid.  I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine
which file goes with which recipient ;)

Caveats:
  If Alice and Baker both get a message, and Alice knows which file
  Baker got, Alice can decrypt Baker's message using her own session
  key, thus revealing to Alice that Baker got the same message that
  Alice did.

  The "non-identifiable" feature with -R (aka throw-keyid) is only as
  good as throw-keyid is, which is pretty good but not perfect.

You may or may not care about these caveats.

David

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Re: Anti-Tempest Fonts, Where?

2008-02-05 Thread Robert J. Hansen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

George Orwell wrote:
> do tempest resistant fonts exist?

First, it's not "tempest resistant".  TEMPEST is the name of the NSA's
standard on Van Eck-resistant hardware.  What you're talking about is
Van Eck surveillance.  I know, I know, PGP Corporation calls it "Tempest
resistance".  They're wrong, too.

Anyway, taking off the pedantry hat...

I am unaware of any empirical evidence that suggests PGP's Van
Eck-resistant fonts really offer much, if any, security against Van Eck
surveillance.  If you're dealing with people who are willing to park a
van down the block and dedicate a crew of surveillance experts and a few
thousand bucks of directional antennas and custom-built FPGAs at you, my
best advice is to (a) run away and (b) build a Faraday cage.


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Re: can you see any problem with this?

2008-02-05 Thread Adrian Thurston
My application is here:

http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~thurston/fif/

I'm encrypting messages and making them publicly available over static
HTTP. Anyone who knows the right URL can grab a message and I don't want
recipients to be identifiable.

Another issue is that the number of recipients and the size of messages
may both get very large. A single encrypted message is therefore very
attractive.

Thanks,
 Adrian

David Shaw wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 12:02:48PM -0500, Adrian Thurston wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to serve messages that have been encrypted to a large number of
>> people, however I don't want to reveal the list of recipients so I'm
>> going to use --throw-keys.
>>
>> But speed at the decryption end is a concern, so I thought I would break
>> up an encrypted message into packets and when a client requests it serve
>> up only the packet that corresponds to the session key encrypted to
>> them, then the content packet. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems as
>> though it should work. I'd like to know if there is any non-obvious
>> reason why it is a bad idea.
> 
> It's hard to really answer this as there isn't enough information to
> say one way or another.
> 
> Speaking strictly to your question, and not the "is this wise"
> question, if I understand it, you are proposing encrypting to a large
> number of people, breaking the resultant encrypted message into many
> PKESK packets (one per recipient) and one encrypted packet.  Then,
> send each recipient their own PKESK plus the encrypted packet.
> 
> So, yes, that would work.  GPG even ships with the tools to make such
> a message.  And it's safe to do so with the caveat that every user
> will have the same encrypted message and be able to decrypt it.  On
> the one hand, no big deal, becuase you sent everyone the same message,
> so you clearly wanted them to have it.  On the other hand, it gives
> Alice the ability to know that Baker got the same message that Alice
> did.  Whether that is important or not depends on what you are doing.
> 
> Also, given that you are only sending each recipient their own PKESK,
> why bother to use --throw-keyid ?  It might be easier to just encrypt
> the whole message to each recipient individually rather than do all
> the packet surgery.
> 
> David
> 
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> 

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Re: Safe decryption with GnuPG?

2008-02-05 Thread Robert J. Hansen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Krzysztof Żelechowski wrote:
> GnuPG claims it locks memory pages so that they are never dumped.

On systems where that's supported, sure.  On systems where that's not
supported, it doesn't.  Ergo, tread carefully.

> (although I am quite surprised
> because the requirements are quite obvious to me; 
> for what is the benefit of encryption 
> when a bad robot can read over your shoulder?)

If your hardware is compromised then you are absolutely screwed, and
there is nothing you can do about it.  Bang, period, game over, end of
sentence, end of discussion.


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Re: can you see any problem with this?

2008-02-05 Thread Adrian Thurston
My system can be described as encrypted news feeds.

I considered that approach and I like it because it's doesn't require
taking apart PGP messages. The problem is that in my system I need the
ability to revoke access to any single user.

With a session key unique to each message I can just re-encrypt and drop
a user. If the session key comes separately I need to ensure that the
clients always have the current symmetric key. The easiest way to do
that is to just send it with each message. But then I've just got ...
well you see :)

Adrian

Robert J. Hansen wrote:
> Adrian Thurston wrote:
>> But speed at the decryption end is a concern, so I thought I would break
>> up an encrypted message into packets and when a client requests it serve
>> up only the packet that corresponds to the session key encrypted to
>> them, then the content packet. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems as
>> though it should work. I'd like to know if there is any non-obvious
>> reason why it is a bad idea.
> 
> At first blush it seems like a case of there being way too much hammer
> for the nail you have in mind.
> 
> 1.  Compose a single message: "the magic words are... [insert passphrase
> here]".
> 
> 
> 2.  Write a script to encrypt each message to each recipient's key and
> mail it to them.  If this takes more than 20 lines of Perl, something's
> wrong.
> 
> 3.  Compose your future traffic as normal, but symmetrically encrypt it
> and send it on to your recipients.
> 
> 
> ... Admittedly, I don't know the particulars of your environment, so
> this might be inappropriate for your needs.  But it's the first thing
> that comes to mind as I read your description of what's happening.
> 
> 

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Re: can you see any problem with this?

2008-02-05 Thread David Shaw
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 12:02:48PM -0500, Adrian Thurston wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to serve messages that have been encrypted to a large number of
> people, however I don't want to reveal the list of recipients so I'm
> going to use --throw-keys.
> 
> But speed at the decryption end is a concern, so I thought I would break
> up an encrypted message into packets and when a client requests it serve
> up only the packet that corresponds to the session key encrypted to
> them, then the content packet. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems as
> though it should work. I'd like to know if there is any non-obvious
> reason why it is a bad idea.

It's hard to really answer this as there isn't enough information to
say one way or another.

Speaking strictly to your question, and not the "is this wise"
question, if I understand it, you are proposing encrypting to a large
number of people, breaking the resultant encrypted message into many
PKESK packets (one per recipient) and one encrypted packet.  Then,
send each recipient their own PKESK plus the encrypted packet.

So, yes, that would work.  GPG even ships with the tools to make such
a message.  And it's safe to do so with the caveat that every user
will have the same encrypted message and be able to decrypt it.  On
the one hand, no big deal, becuase you sent everyone the same message,
so you clearly wanted them to have it.  On the other hand, it gives
Alice the ability to know that Baker got the same message that Alice
did.  Whether that is important or not depends on what you are doing.

Also, given that you are only sending each recipient their own PKESK,
why bother to use --throw-keyid ?  It might be easier to just encrypt
the whole message to each recipient individually rather than do all
the packet surgery.

David

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Re: Safe decryption with GnuPG?

2008-02-05 Thread Robert J. Hansen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Krzysztof Żelechowski wrote:
> The decrypted information must not make it to any persistent medium 

GnuPG is almost certainly the wrong tool for your job.  GnuPG has little
control over low-level operating systems details like swap files.  It is
possible for cleartext to be stored in some manner.

> (I understand gpg '-d' already guarantees it 
> as long as it manages the decrypted text,
>  but what happens after it leaves gpg?)

[many other requirements snipped]

Many of your requirements belong in the application stack alongside or
above GnuPG, but are pretty much unrelated to GnuPG.  After it leaves
GnuPG it's no longer GnuPG's problem.  Many of your requirements are
also impossible to meet.  I don't mean "impossible" as in "it would
require a lot of engineering", I mean "impossible" as in "it's like
violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics".

> Can you direct me to some implementation meeting these requirements?

There exists no such implementation.

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Re: Safe decryption with GnuPG?

2008-02-05 Thread David Picón Álvarez

Sorry, but what you're asking for is impossible.


The decrypted information must not make it to any persistent medium
(I understand gpg '-d' already guarantees it
as long as it manages the decrypted text,
but what happens after it leaves gpg?)


That's the business of the viewer.


In particular, it should be converted to a human-viewable bitmap
and the computer-readable representation must be immediately erased.


This doesn't buy you much, especially since there's OCR and the computer 
generated bitmap is likely to be very regular.



3. Only the information I need should be displayed.


How does the viewer know which information you need?


The bitmap must not be updated automatically
(the containing window must not display it
when it is in the background, whatever it means).
(It would be best to forget the bitmap altogether
and regenerate it upon request,
but it seems to be a hard thing to do
because the gpg output stream is not scrollable backwards).


Updated automatically? Not sure I see what you mean here.


The bitmap itself should not make it to any persistent medium
and it should be scrambled, if possible, in the volatile memory.


Scrambling isn't of much use. If someone can read your memory they can read 
the key, which must lie somewhere in memory as well.



It should not be possible
to make a snapshot of the graphic in the window
with any programmatic means
(you can of course make a picture of the screen with a camera).


This is impossible, unless you have: 1) trusted hardware, DRM style, or 2) a 
specifically built OS to ensure it.



The application should be as lightweight as possible
(for source code audit).


Good luck, you're proposing an application that would have to take full 
control of video RAM to ensure noone can read it, that would have to do all 
sorts of graphical manipulation to generate a bitmap from a text, etc.



--David.


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Re: can you see any problem with this?

2008-02-05 Thread Robert J. Hansen
Adrian Thurston wrote:
> But speed at the decryption end is a concern, so I thought I would break
> up an encrypted message into packets and when a client requests it serve
> up only the packet that corresponds to the session key encrypted to
> them, then the content packet. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems as
> though it should work. I'd like to know if there is any non-obvious
> reason why it is a bad idea.

At first blush it seems like a case of there being way too much hammer
for the nail you have in mind.

1.  Compose a single message: "the magic words are... [insert passphrase
here]".


2.  Write a script to encrypt each message to each recipient's key and
mail it to them.  If this takes more than 20 lines of Perl, something's
wrong.

3.  Compose your future traffic as normal, but symmetrically encrypt it
and send it on to your recipients.


... Admittedly, I don't know the particulars of your environment, so
this might be inappropriate for your needs.  But it's the first thing
that comes to mind as I read your description of what's happening.


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Anti-Tempest Fonts, Where?

2008-02-05 Thread George Orwell
man gpg

the above cmd mentions anti tempest fonts. what does this mean
exactly? where are the anti-tempest fonts? i've searched the
net for them and cannot find them. the only mention of soft
tempest fonts were within a .zip containing image files claimed
to be for example only.

do tempest resistant fonts exist?

Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
non corrisponde ad un utente   |message is not related to a real
reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
di un sistema anonimizzatore   |anonymous system
Per maggiori informazioni  |For more info
  https://www.mixmaster.it

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Safe decryption with GnuPG?

2008-02-05 Thread Krzysztof Żelechowski
Dear friends:

I have a file that I encrypted for myself 
and I want to read some information from it.  
The file is a text file and I need to read several lines of it.

The following requirements must be met:

1. 
The decrypted information must not make it to any persistent medium 
(I understand gpg '-d' already guarantees it 
as long as it manages the decrypted text,
 but what happens after it leaves gpg?)

2. 
The decrypted text must not be stored in volatile memory 
any longer than it is needed.  
In particular, it should be converted to a human-viewable bitmap 
and the computer-readable representation must be immediately erased.

3. Only the information I need should be displayed.

4. 
The bitmap must not be updated automatically 
(the containing window must not display it 
when it is in the background, whatever it means).
(It would be best to forget the bitmap altogether 
and regenerate it upon request, 
but it seems to be a hard thing to do
because the gpg output stream is not scrollable backwards).

5.
The bitmap itself should not make it to any persistent medium
and it should be scrambled, if possible, in the volatile memory.

6. 
It should not be possible 
to make a snapshot of the graphic in the window 
with any programmatic means 
(you can of course make a picture of the screen with a camera).

7. 
If more information is requested, 
it should be displayed in small chunks.  
The program should be fully unaware 
of the content of the chunks that are not being displayed.

(That probably means a garbage-collected language cannot be used).

8. 
The application should be as lightweight as possible 
(for source code audit).

Can you direct me to some implementation meeting these requirements?

Best regards,
Chris




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can you see any problem with this?

2008-02-05 Thread Adrian Thurston
Hi,

I'd like to serve messages that have been encrypted to a large number of
people, however I don't want to reveal the list of recipients so I'm
going to use --throw-keys.

But speed at the decryption end is a concern, so I thought I would break
up an encrypted message into packets and when a client requests it serve
up only the packet that corresponds to the session key encrypted to
them, then the content packet. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems as
though it should work. I'd like to know if there is any non-obvious
reason why it is a bad idea.

Thanks,
 Adrian

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Re: Can you clarify when data compression is used?

2008-02-05 Thread David Shaw
On Mon, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:12:02PM -0600, Robert J. Hansen wrote:

> I suspect--although I do not know--that a similar motivation drove
> GnuPG's decision to leave DSA-1024 as the standard.

That's basically the reason.  While GPG fully supports DSA2 signatures
today, there are a large installed base that cannot handle them.
Because of this, we decided to fully accept DSA2 keys and signatures
from elsewhere, but won't generate a new DSA2 key unless the user opts
in with --enable-dsa2.

> Now that RFC4880 has come out, supplanting RFC2440, I imagine the way is
> clear to make all new keys DSA-2048 or DSA-3072.  After all, now it's
> part of the standard.

The way is clear, and we'll get there eventually, but the installed
base is still pretty old.  Using --rfc4880 or --openpgp does enable
DSA2, but the default is still off.

David

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Re: Using notations on data signatures

2008-02-05 Thread David Shaw
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 02:29:01PM +, Phil Brooke wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a bit confused about --sig-notation.  Suppose I detach-sign a file; is it
> reasonable to use notations to briefly comment on it? e.g., 
>   --sig-notation [EMAIL PROTECTED]"This loan application is approved."
> (Not dealing with loans really, but needed some example)

Yes, that is a reasonable use of a notation.  Notations (and
especially user notations) are basically the escape hatch in the
OpenPGP design: they're intended for adding stuff to signatures.  What
stuff if up to the adder.

See also --sig-policy-url for another, but more standard, way to add
information about a signature.

> Is the notation part of the signed data (whereas the comment headers aren't)
> so that tampering with the notation is evident?

Yes.

David

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Using notations on data signatures

2008-02-05 Thread Phil Brooke
Hi,

I'm a bit confused about --sig-notation.  Suppose I detach-sign a file; is it
reasonable to use notations to briefly comment on it? e.g., 
  --sig-notation [EMAIL PROTECTED]"This loan application is approved."
(Not dealing with loans really, but needed some example)

Is the notation part of the signed data (whereas the comment headers aren't)
so that tampering with the notation is evident?

Thanks,

Phil.


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