Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Grant Olson
On 7/27/2011 10:25 PM, Len Cooley wrote:
 Well, let me ask you this. Is it useful/useless/ridiculous/orwhat to
 attach your public key as a sig at the end of an email, such as below?
 

Unless you're trying to keep your key 'off the grid' I'd just send the
key to the keyservers.  Then people who use OpenPGP will retrieve the
key based on your email's signature.  People who don't care will just
ignore your sig, which will be smaller than your full public key.

If you are trying to keep the key 'off the grid' then you don't want to
include it as a generic signature either.

In general, it's best to get the key from a different source than your
signed email.  If your signature and key are in the same email, an
attacker could have forged both.  They could in other circumstances as
well, but it's less likely for someone to forge both a public key on the
keyservers (or your personal website, or your business card, etc), and a
signature on a forged email.  They need to compromise two lines of defense.

-- 
Grant



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Werner Koch
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:29, k...@grant-olson.net said:

 attacker could have forged both.  They could in other circumstances as
 well, but it's less likely for someone to forge both a public key on the
 keyservers (or your personal website, or your business card, etc), and a
 signature on a forged email.  They need to compromise two lines of defense.

Why?  Sending a key to a keyserver is cheap.  The validity of the key
needs to be established by different means; for example using the WoT.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


-- 
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Re: Smartcard durability?

2011-07-28 Thread Werner Koch
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 05:56, r...@sixdemonbag.org said:
 Are there any particular problems the durability of a smartcard,
 particularly an OpenPGP card?  Are there any damage concerns from wallet

It is not different than with any other chip card.  If you immerse the
card into water only the contacts my corrode.  Use an eraser to clean
them.  If you bend the card to strong the chip may get an microfissure
and stop working.

I have several chip cards in my purse for may years now without any
problems.  Granted most money cards still use the magstripe but at least
my OpenPGP card and my RFID based season ticket are chip-only cards.

As an alternative you may use an ID-000 (GSM card size) card along with
an USB reader and put it on your key ring.  I had one on mine for at
least 4 years and it surived summer, winter, snow and sun without any
problems.


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner

-- 
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Re: How secure are smartcards?

2011-07-28 Thread Jay Litwyn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

In my entry on a related thread, I was thinking that one of the simpler
ways to foil attacks on bank cards would be to make a smart card play
dumb and accept any old pin (symmetric encryption key for a private
key). That would (almost) force attackers to communicate with a bank on
every trial, except there *might* be a way for attackers to get the
public key for a pair off a card. Since attackers can't read the private
key (at least not without frying or bridging key bits), they can't tell
that it iz no longer based upon probable primes. The bank would come up
with no such ID, or BAD signature, and they might be watching for a
lot of noise like that. Now, I am thinking that for a card to reveal its
public key more than once might actually be a weakness, however
interoperable.

A bank card does only hav to communicate with one other entity, so I am
not sure that this can't be done with symmetric keys throughout.

The other way iz to introduce increasing delays for bad PINs.
I like my first impulse better, though, forcing attackers to actually
use a badly decrypted private key to communicate with a bank.
___
That boy so horny, even the Crack of Dawn ain't safe!
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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Jay Litwyn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On 2011-07-27 8:25 PM, Len Cooley wrote:
 Well, let me ask you this. Is it useful/useless/ridiculous/orwhat to 
 attach your public key as a sig at the end of an email, such as
 below?
 

It depends on the environment of your receiver.
Would they be subject to seeing your signature replaced?
Do any policies concern the use of cryptography at their workplace or
domicile, say in jail or in a country where Blackberry crypto is an
issue (India, if I remember correctly)?
Do they live in a country that accepted U.S. export restrictions on
cryptography (probably Russia)?
Is your recipient a public figure (about whom there might be motivation
to pull a Murdoch) or an ex convict (about whom there might still be
search warrants)?
In any of the rejions where cryptography is controlled, it is a better
idea (than simply sending a public key with no signatures on it other
than yours) to be creative with the hash on your public key; perhaps
telephone verification, perhaps you can personally meet someone on the
web of trust.

While the Physics of public key cryptography are air tight,
it depends on signatures on your public key to become robust
in the real world. I suspect that you are more likely to get
those if you release your key on servers, and sign a lot of stuff
that people consider important. Attaching a photo to your public
key might help. So might putting a phone number on your public key.
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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9ogBDYNJfio=
=FbUF
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Smartcard durability?

2011-07-28 Thread David Tomaschik
It's a small sample to be sure, but I've been carrying my smartcard in
my wallet for several months and it's held up just fine.  It has a
tiny bit of curvature to it now, but that's only noticeable if you lay
it on something flat, and has no impact on its usage.  (If it matters
any, I carry my wallet in a front pocket -- I know some people sit on
theirs which might be a bit worse for it.)

David


On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:56 PM, Robert J. Hansen r...@sixdemonbag.org wrote:
 Are there any particular problems the durability of a smartcard,
 particularly an OpenPGP card?  Are there any damage concerns from wallet
 storage, for instance?


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-- 
David Tomaschik, RHCE, LPIC-1
System Administrator/Open Source Advocate
OpenPGP: 0x5DEA789B
http://systemoverlord.com
da...@systemoverlord.com

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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread MFPA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi


On Thursday 28 July 2011 at 12:53:41 PM, in
mid:4e314dc5.4000...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca, Jay Litwyn wrote:

 Attaching a photo to your public key might
 help. So might putting a phone number on your public
 key.

I'm not too convinced a photo would help much. I could create
a key and include a photo obtained from the internet...

A phone number would only help if the person ringing it knew you well
enough to recognise your voice on the phone. Even then, somebody could
record your voice and use it create an answerphone message...

- --
Best regards

MFPAmailto:expires2...@ymail.com

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind bat!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

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/1cavrpZtfnqprJ7kyOdUcNmBUJ8oE90DE9TO3So
=Rnur
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Jay Litwyn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On 2011-07-28 8:01 AM, MFPA wrote:
 Hi
 
 
 On Thursday 28 July 2011 at 12:53:41 PM, in 
 mid:4e314dc5.4000...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca, Jay Litwyn wrote:
 
 Attaching a photo to your public key might help. So might putting
 a phone number on your public key.
 
 I'm not too convinced a photo would help much. I could create a key 
 and include a photo obtained from the internet...

Do not sign my photo until you see me in person, although it would be
tricky to fake photo-id production on skype. Photo-id doesn't make very
good single frames, but change the angle on television and those chrome
things flicker and move...

 A phone number would only help if the person ringing it knew you well
 enough to recognise your voice on the phone. Even then, somebody 
 could record your voice and use it create an answerphone message...

That is what a signed mp3 in my comment is about, and just in case you
do not follow links in message source [comments] very often...
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/gpg/Keyprint_Biometric.mp3.pgp
(I will never call it a thumbprint or a fingerprint; key hash)
Kleopatra won't handle that file...says no data, and gpg will handle it
on a command line, making an mp3 out of it.

Additionally, you can do a reverse lookup on my phone number and at
least see if I am lying about my given and family names, according to a
corporation that my library used to verify my identity.

My bottom line is that photos and phone numbers do not hurt.
___
Quantum Mechanics do it on fields and in time.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/gpg/Keyprint_Biometric.mp3.pgp
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e2xgTNyjM18=
=2bpK
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Melvin Carvalho
On 28 July 2011 16:01, MFPA expires2...@ymail.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA512

 Hi


 On Thursday 28 July 2011 at 12:53:41 PM, in
 mid:4e314dc5.4000...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca, Jay Litwyn wrote:

 Attaching a photo to your public key might
 help. So might putting a phone number on your public
 key.

 I'm not too convinced a photo would help much. I could create
 a key and include a photo obtained from the internet...

 A phone number would only help if the person ringing it knew you well
 enough to recognise your voice on the phone. Even then, somebody could
 record your voice and use it create an answerphone message...

It's now possible to put a photo, phone number etc on your home page,
and also put your public key there.

That's what I do.  For this I use my OpenPGP key together with some HTML5.

It's quite a new system, but supported by the W3C and on it's way to
becoming a standard. For more info see the video at:
http://webid.info/


 - --
 Best regards

 MFPA                    mailto:expires2...@ymail.com

 A nod is as good as a wink to a blind bat!
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 /1cavrpZtfnqprJ7kyOdUcNmBUJ8oE90DE9TO3So
 =Rnur
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Jay Litwyn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On 2011-07-28 10:08 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
 On 28 July 2011 16:01, MFPA expires2...@ymail.com wrote: Hi
 
 
 On Thursday 28 July 2011 at 12:53:41 PM, in 
 mid:4e314dc5.4000...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca, Jay Litwyn wrote:
 
 Attaching a photo to your public key might help. So might
 putting a phone number on your public key.
 
 I'm not too convinced a photo would help much. I could create a key
 and include a photo obtained from the internet...
 
 A phone number would only help if the person ringing it knew you
 well enough to recognise your voice on the phone. Even then, somebody
 could record your voice and use it create an answerphone message...
 
 It's now possible to put a photo, phone number etc on your home
 page, and also put your public key there.
 
 That's what I do.  For this I use my OpenPGP key together with some
 HTML5.

The only reason I am not using HTML5, yet, iz because it requires
knowing CSS to set link, vlink, and alink colours. What you are talking
about only requires HTML 3.2 (which haz been a standard for ten years,
and even now there is a portion of internet traffic from I.E.6.), which
supports colour in body tags, while HTML5 does not; yet another
standard that is not backward compatible.

Not recognizing a public key from stamper is being not backward
compatible.

A signed photo means a *bit more* than photos on facebook. A signed
phone number means a *bit more* than a link to your phone company. That
is especially true when three identifiers are linked to the same key,
separately, so that you don't need to know all four (voice, name, face,
and e-mail address), and so that you can let other people confirm only
what they've experienced, az in perhaps they should not feel qualified
to sign my given and family names, yet they're confident of my e-mail
address.

In my case, that iz likely, because I yuuz only screen names on USENET.
The bit more is potential for privacy, and insulation against identity
theft. Someone could simply copy your web site and change a few things
to steal your identity, at least until you found out and complained to
their ISP.

That's why void appears in my public key. Neither PGP 10, nor gpg
were going to allow me to leave my given and family names blank;
separate, and yet _linked_ elements of identification.

 
 It's quite a new system, but supported by the W3C and on it's way
 to becoming a standard. For more info see the video at: 
 http://webid.info/

Like I said, it is more authentic and therefore more useful when pieces
of your identity are linked in dijital signatures. It would be a bit
tricky to do that with HTML. You could do it with PDF, because there iz
a standard for signatures (and probably compound signatures) on PDF.
There isn't one for HTML, AFAIK, that doesn't require s/mime or some
complicated and little-used piece of HTTPS or HTTPD.
___
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(Exhale, Inhale) Luke, you are my bastard!
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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Peter Lebbing
On 28/07/11 20:15, Jay Litwyn wrote:
 In my case, that iz likely, because I yuuz only screen names on USENET.

yuuz? That's where I draw the line. This mailing list is for communication, not
showing your 1337 skillz. So please communicate in a way where I don't have to
read every other sentence twice to get what you are trying to tell us.

Peter.

PS: At first I wondered if you had an interesting variant of dyslexia :).
Perhaps quite the opposite of your intention.

-- 
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Jay Litwyn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On 2011-07-28 10:08 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
(...)
 It's quite a new system, but supported by the W3C and on it's way
 to becoming a standard. For more info see the video at: 
 http://webid.info/
(...)

paypal and your bank are unlikely subscribers to this potential
standard. You will notice that neither one allows your browzer to store
a password for them. They also time out; expire logins. That's how
concerned they are with authenticity; not even someone else from your
home. I do not really see how an open login system can *increase*
security. However much you use the math, if you are effectively logged
into all of the servers you ever used at once, then the openness of
your computer (say if it is on, and you head out for soda without
logging out) is an authenticity threat. You do not want to explain
someone else's actions to admins on wikipedia: You will be lucky if
they believe you.
___
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
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=96R6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Creating a quickly expiring signature

2011-07-28 Thread Dan McGee
I wanted to test behavior of an application with an expired signature,
but using `--ask-sig-expire` don't seem to be granular enough. The
minimum I can specify is either 1 day, or an absolute date (e.g.
2011-07-29), which is still 8+ hours away for me right now. Am I
missing something? Decimal values are not accepted, nor seconds,
minutes, or hours.

-Dan

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Re: Creating a quickly expiring signature

2011-07-28 Thread David Shaw
On Jul 28, 2011, at 4:49 PM, Dan McGee wrote:

 I wanted to test behavior of an application with an expired signature,
 but using `--ask-sig-expire` don't seem to be granular enough. The
 minimum I can specify is either 1 day, or an absolute date (e.g.
 2011-07-29), which is still 8+ hours away for me right now. Am I
 missing something? Decimal values are not accepted, nor seconds,
 minutes, or hours.

When GPG asks you for the value, enter seconds=X.  You can go down to as low 
as a single second.

David


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Re: Creating a quickly expiring signature

2011-07-28 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 7/28/11 4:49 PM, Dan McGee wrote:
 I wanted to test behavior of an application with an expired signature,
 but using `--ask-sig-expire` don't seem to be granular enough.

Set your system clock back a year, create a sig that expires in a year,
reset your system to the normal time.  The simplest solution is usually
best.


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Re: Creating a quickly expiring signature

2011-07-28 Thread Dan McGee
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, David Shaw ds...@jabberwocky.com wrote:
 On Jul 28, 2011, at 4:49 PM, Dan McGee wrote:

 I wanted to test behavior of an application with an expired signature,
 but using `--ask-sig-expire` don't seem to be granular enough. The
 minimum I can specify is either 1 day, or an absolute date (e.g.
 2011-07-29), which is still 8+ hours away for me right now. Am I
 missing something? Decimal values are not accepted, nor seconds,
 minutes, or hours.

 When GPG asks you for the value, enter seconds=X.  You can go down to as 
 low as a single second.

Thanks! This worked. Now why isn't this documented anywhere to be
found? What other secret helpful options does gpg not advertise?

@Robert: while I appreciate your suggestion, I do not find setting my
system clock (controlled by NTP) to an invalid time to be even
remarkably a valid solution to this problem, especially if I am
writing an automated test suite that generates signatures and keys,
for example...

-Dan

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Re: Including public key

2011-07-28 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 7/28/11 3:46 PM, Peter Lebbing wrote:
 Please communicate in a way where I don't have to
 read every other sentence twice to get what you are trying to tell us.

I wunder if iu've red the Plan for xe Impruvment of Ingliy Speling,
popyularly atributed to Mark Twain?

http://everything2.com/title/A+Plan+for+the+Improvement+of+English+Spelling

(In all seriousness, I share in your general concern: but I'm of the
opinion a small bit of good humor is always on-topic.)

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Re: How secure are smartcards?

2011-07-28 Thread Crypto Stick
 At the moment, my secret key is stored on my hard drive and is encrypted
 by a long passphrase. When I transfer my subkeys to the smartcard, will
 they actually be encrypted whilst they're on there?

The very purpose of smartcards is to keep secret keys confidential and
secure. This is achieved by physical protection, different layers,
puzzling structure etc. This makes it very, very difficult to extract
the keys. For a state-of-the-art smart card like the OpenPGP Card 2, I
guess the price tag would be around 100.000 Euros.

The beauty is that this protection can be provided without the burden
for the user to remember a long passphrase, since this is not required
to encrypt the keys.

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Re: How secure are smartcards?

2011-07-28 Thread Jay Litwyn
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On 2011-07-28 6:05 PM, Crypto Stick wrote:
 At the moment, my secret key is stored on my hard drive and is
 encrypted by a long passphrase. When I transfer my subkeys to the
 smartcard, will they actually be encrypted whilst they're on
 there?
 
 The very purpose of smartcards is to keep secret keys confidential
 and secure. This is achieved by physical protection, different
 layers, puzzling structure etc. This makes it very, very difficult to
 extract the keys. For a state-of-the-art smart card like the OpenPGP
 Card 2, I guess the price tag would be around 100.000 Euros.
 
 The beauty is that this protection can be provided without the
 burden for the user to remember a long passphrase, since this is not
 required to encrypt the keys.

You could use random symmetric encryption keys and encrypt them with a
short passphrase: Decryption would be two steps. Or, you could disable
the command for exporting a private key; import only. Iz GPG in ROM on
this card, then?
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