Re: Fwd: GPLv2 licensing issues

2008-04-10 Thread Hubert Chathi
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:40:34 -0700, Matt Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

 On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Fred Kiefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am still not sure whether this problem actually exists. As far as I
 understand the GPL it only transfers to libraries that are statically
 linked to it. GNUstep base, gui and back (normally) get linked
 dynamically and to my understanding this should not cause any
 problem. But I surely am no expert on this matter.

  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins

  If the program uses fork and exec to invoke plug-ins, then the
 plug-ins are separate programs, so the license for the main program
 makes no requirements for them.

Yup, and the next paragraph:

If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function calls
to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a single
program, which must be treated as an extension of both the main program
and the plug-ins. This means the plug-ins must be released under the GPL
or a GPL-compatible free software license, and that the terms of the GPL
must be followed when those plug-ins are distributed.

Hubert


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Re: Fwd: GPLv2 licensing issues

2008-04-10 Thread Stefan Bidigaray
I think another good FAQ question to look at is:


*Can I release a program under the GPL which I developed using non-free
tools?*

Which programs you used to edit the source code, or to compile it, or study
it, or record it, usually makes no difference for issues concerning the
licensing of that source code.

However, if you link non-free libraries with the source code, that would be
an issue you need to deal with. It does not preclude releasing the source
code under the GPL, but if the libraries don't fit under the system
library exception, you should affix an explicit notice giving permission to
link your program with them. The FSF can give you advice on doing this.


This one is also interesting:

*If I port my program to GNU/Linux, does that mean I have to release it as
Free Software under the GPL or some other Free Software license?*

In general, the answer is no—this is not a legal requirement. In specific,
the answer depends on which libraries you want to use and what their
licenses are. Most system libraries either use the GNU Lesser
GPLhttp://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html,
or use the GNU GPL plus an exception permitting linking the library with
anything. These libraries can be used in non-free programs; but in the case
of the Lesser GPL, it does have some requirements you must follow.

Note how it says if the library has an exception, you're in the clear.
libobjc has that exception as Matt Rice pointed out.

That said, this whole conversation is a little moot.  If the GPLv2 was this
restrictive KDE, for example, would have never happened.  QT was originally
licensed under a non-free license, obvious incompatible with the GPLv2 on
which KDE used.  There are millions of other examples where this type of
thing happens.

I still don't see the problem Hubert is seeing.  The GPL and LGPL where
written exactly for this purpose.  Heck, the FSF linking against non-free
libraries when they first start releasing code, and they specifically made
sure not to make GPL software able to link only against LGPL libraries.

Stefan
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Re: Fwd: GPLv2 licensing issues

2008-04-10 Thread Hubert Chathi
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:12:17 -0500, Stefan Bidigaray [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

 I think another good FAQ question to look at is:  *Can I release a
 program under the GPL which I developed using non-free tools?*

[...]

 However, if you link non-free libraries with the source code, that
 would be an issue you need to deal with. It does not preclude
 releasing the source code under the GPL, but if the libraries don't
 fit under the system library exception, you should affix an explicit
 notice giving permission to link your program with them. The FSF can
 give you advice on doing this.  

Yes, I mentioned the possibility of adding an exception to the
applications' license in my original message.

 This one is also interesting:  *If I port my program to GNU/Linux,
 does that mean I have to release it as Free Software under the GPL or
 some other Free Software license?*

 In general, the answer is no—this is not a legal requirement. In
 specific, the answer depends on which libraries you want to use and
 what their licenses are. Most system libraries either use the GNU
 Lesser GPLhttp://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html, or use the GNU
 GPL plus an exception permitting linking the library with
 anything. These libraries can be used in non-free programs; but in the
 case of the Lesser GPL, it does have some requirements you must
 follow.  

 Note how it says if the library has an exception, you're in the
 clear.  libobjc has that exception as Matt Rice pointed out.

That is an issue of the application's license being compatible with the
library's license, whereas the issue that I brought up is a question of
the library's license not being compatible with the application's
license.  There are two different compatibilities that need to be
satisfied.

 That said, this whole conversation is a little moot.  If the GPLv2 was
 this restrictive KDE, for example, would have never happened.  QT was
 originally licensed under a non-free license, obvious incompatible
 with the GPLv2 on which KDE used.  There are millions of other
 examples where this type of thing happens.

Mostly because people just covered their eyes and assumed that there was
nothing wrong.  However, KDE was kept out of Debian, for example, for a
long time because of this very issue.

 I still don't see the problem Hubert is seeing.  The GPL and LGPL
 where written exactly for this purpose.

The LGPLv2 was written to be compatible with the GPLv2, and the LGPLv3
was written to be compatible with the GPLv3.  However, the LGPLv3 is not
compatible with the GPLv2, which is even mentioned on the FSF's web page
which I referenced in my original mail.  (And the GPLv3 is not
compatible with the GPLv2, so you can't mix GPLv3 and GPLv2 code
together.)

 Heck, the FSF linking against non-free libraries when they first start
 releasing code, and they specifically made sure not to make GPL
 software able to link only against LGPL libraries.

Yes, the GPL has specific exceptions for linking against major
components of the operating system (as the GPLv2 calls it, and System
Libraries as the GPLv3 calls it).  In my reply to Nicola, I explain
that the GNUstep libraries may not fall under that exclusion, and even
so, if a program is licensed under the GPLv2, may still be prevented
from being distributed along with the GNUstep libraries.

Hubert
-- who finds it very ironic that proprietary programs have less legal
problems linking against LGPLv3 libraries than GPLv2 programs do


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