FW: Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
From: Nasci Caldeira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:58 PM To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: RE: Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian Lawrence, If I am an enlightened Christian, does not mean that you and all others are not! I have shown that 'you' are liberated from the ancient taboos and some unworthy traditions. You have been redeemed! You are a free man, to think intelligently and act intelligently. Remember, just because the KRC did quite a good job on the Konkan Rly, does not mean it can necessarily do a good or better job with the Sky Bus. They have failed their own 'tests'; as such how can they pass a 'world test' ?? They have not even passed their 'primary class! These are facts man! You should not be holding a grudge against me, for pointing out these facts. Thanks for all the PR job on behalf of KRC; and the timetables etc. :-) :-) With regards, Nasci. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian > > What Joy!!! > > (^-^) > > Lawrence _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [GoaNet] Enlightened Christian (to Nasci and all 'believers')
Nasci,
No need for apologies, but in the same vein, I'm sorry if I misunderstood
your statement.
Evolution is not a 'belief' as in most religions, it is a proven fact that
has been verified by several unrelated disciplines and endorsed by the
Vatican. Homo sapiens may not have evolved from monkeys but definitely had
common ancestors with them, being closer to the apes and, in particular,
the Bonobo ape (by DNA analysis).
The problem with making God in the image of man gives a tangible 'face' to
a concept which then can be confused with an external force that is
omnipresent and supposedly omnibenevolent. However, the 'god' we fail to
see is the one within each and every one of us which is an internal spark
which separates humankind from the other species on this planet. Some may
refer to it as a 'soul' but that again gives it a tangibility which is no
more legitimate as the fleeting electrical impulses between the trillions
of synapses between the billions of neurons in our brains.
During the evolution of religion, humans ascribed inexplicable phenomena to
'gods' and so from the days when we worshipped fire, thunder, volcanos and
earthquakes, we have progressed to worshipping a creator and the ruler of
the afterlife, few of the concepts that are yet to be explained in simple
detail that the common (wo)man can understand. That ignorance has been
capitalized on by those who claim to have a direct connection with God, the
highest caste of priests and pundits who scoff at anyone who tries to
understand 'their' mysteries. Theologians have created much more confusion
with their smoke and mirrors and weaved incredible tales to keep adherants
in the dark. Enlightenment is finding your way out of that fog into the
bright sunshine of self discovery!
Not many believers like to be told that their beliefs are wrong. It's like
trying to convince an alcoholic that it should be easy to give up drinking
because alcohol is neither addictive nor intoxicating. Different forms of
worship are more to do with self improvement than diefying the object of
worship. Condemning animal worship as 'wrong' or 'stupid' ('no
intelligence') misses the whole point of worshipping. That is why I find
it incredible that an enlightened Christian would ridicule another person's
God.
Sincerely,
Kevin Saldanha
Mississauga, ON.
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 19:10:59 +1000
From: "Nasci Caldeira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Goanet] RE: Enlightened Christian (to Kevin)
To: goanet@goanet.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Kevin,
I should not have made the statement (in konkanni) in my last response to
you. As such please accept my unconditional apology.
However, in your belief in 'evolution' wherein you repeat that man evolved
from monkey or animal; you do not say that therefore man must worship the
animal or other animals. This is my only complaint. Is it not better that
man makes God in the image of man, the highest in the species, rather than
make God in the image of unintelligent animals? This has been the gist of
my
discourse.
Animal worship is wrong; it's just not intelligent and just not on! Thats
all that I am saying.
A 'human animal' as you say it, will not worship an animal of a lower
intelligence; he has no need to!unless he is of 'no intelligence'. What say
you? Kevin?
With regards,
Nasci Caldeira.
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
_
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Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
Nasci, Please don't misrepresent my posts in this thread. You are free to believe whatever you want to believe, and to express yourself. But please air your views without involving me. I have no interest in knowing why you consider yourself enlightened, multicultural, superior, special, privileged or anything else. Cheers, Santosh --- Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Santosh, > > I am talking of enlightened practices in the > behaviorial environment; and > also of enlightened 'reason' that leads to superior > practices; whilst you > are misleading readers into enlightenement vis soul > and power of the > almighty etc. > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
On 5/9/06, Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is my last posting on this thread; ... What Joy!!! (^-^) Lawrence -- Need a *Gmail* e-mail ID? Do write to me. Will send you an invitation to open a *Gmail* e-mail account. :-) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
Santosh, I am talking of enlightened practices in the behaviorial environment; and also of enlightened 'reason' that leads to superior practices; whilst you are misleading readers into enlightenement vis soul and power of the almighty etc. What I have said, IMPLIES that one does not have to be a Christian to be an an elightened practitioner of certain practices that are the effect of good reason and being a Christian helps towards this; Hindu philosophy on the other hand, in practice, seems to be the anti thesis of this. This is my view; and I have no intention nor do I want to be dragged into any discourse on philosophy; because I am not competent in that area. So I stick to what I see, in the practical evolution of these theories. You have tried to take away from me, my propogation of 'practical (non ghettoisation) harmonious living of different cultures' and actual participation in the essence of various cultures, without adherence to taboos and hang ups of the past. What is in practice is what counts, ultimately! A truly multicultural person or community should be able to make choices and partcipate in the good within various cultures, without some taboo or dogma holding them back. Or else IT SIMPLY MEANS SEPERATE LIVING, SEGREGATION and APARTHIED like system, without even minimal integration! What you are content with is multicultural ghettos tolerating and respecting others, yet living in their own 'narrow' world. I am not content with that! That is why I want India to be an integrated great society, where brahmin and chamar will sit at the same table, and partake of each others food etc; where Hindu of any caste, will be' liberated' enough to partake and discourse with a Muslim, Christian, Jain, or non believer,( and vice versa). In this scenario it would mean that a liberated Hindu or Muslim would be able to sit and eat what he likes in a non Hindu, non Muslim eating place. As a Christian or with Christian 'liberated' cultural background, I should be able to meet with any person who may not be of my persuasion, and partake of our choice of food etc, in any or all places without negative encumbrances. This sort of exchange is possible for me in enlightend modern countries, but not in India. Recently I met some Indian athletes who were here in Melbourne for the Games; we had a civic reception cum Indian Cultural event hosted by the Indian Community, to make these guys feel at home as well as to project Indian Culture to Australia and the world. This was held at the Town Hall, the use if which was made available for free by the Lord Mayor and his Council. Outside there were stalls displaying Indian cultural wares and food stalls of the traditional narrow unliberated variety of food. I asked two of these visiting Indians as to what places they would go to eat in and tour in multicultural Australia. Their answer was that they would tour as much as possible but they would only visit Indian Restaurants and Indian homes, as one was a vegetarian and the other was used to only mutton and chicken India stye. I said: but in multicultural Australia one can get best of vegetarian food and the best of lamb and chicken in almost all restaurants, not only Indian. I also said to them: "when I first set foot outside India in the 1960's, I went to a non Indian restaurant where I could taste and partake in the wonderful variety of food and culturally diverse cuisines. That they do not know what they are missing! They should open themselves up, instead of being bogged down in their narrow vision of the world: To which they kindly replied that they would like to; but for the fact that whilst in India they are brought up thus; and therefore just not unable to partake in other cultures. I said, I could and did, because I was truly liberated from dogma and traditions. You see, that is why I say that the Goan Christian or Indian Christian culture is truly liberated and enlightened! So we can make ourselves at home anywhere and everywhere and with anyone; and partake of 'joie de vivre'. This is how it should be for everyone; Damn the taboos and the stuck up ideas of the past! This is my last posting on this thread; Thanks to all for reading me. Sincerely speaking, Nasci Caldeira. ---------- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Subject: Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 16:26:42 -0700 (PDT) The common understanding of multiculturalism and enlightenment has no resemblance with what has been described in this thread so far. In the secular tradition enlightenment is synonymous with knowledge achieved by the free exercise of reason. Indeed, the Age of Enlightenment is deemed to be a rejection of myth and superstition, etc. Actually, India has a much longer tradi
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
Hi Gilbert, Have just noted what you said below but how do you know what you say is fact? Just intrigued! Regards Cornel - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 12:02 PM Subject: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian To all participating in this thread, please remember: God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts... And Some wear their halos a bit too tight. Kind Regards, GL _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
Incredible! Another waste of cyberspace by Santosh with a comment that means nothing:-)) > --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Incredible! A sentence meant to evoke a response > did. > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
Incredible! A sentence meant to evoke a response did. Cheers, Santosh --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Don't hold your breath. Coherent responses are only > reserved for coherent opinions. > > Mario. > > --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > This sentence is meant to evoke a response. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Santosh > > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
Don't hold your breath. Coherent responses are only reserved for coherent opinions. > Mario. > --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This sentence is meant to evoke a response. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The attached posts show that some can confuse > snide > > sarcasm on the internet with intelligent comment > or > > opinion. General, non-specific sarcasm adds > nothing > > to the debate that a forum is meant for. > > > > > --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > One can always detect interesting prejudices and > > > double standards in sundry exchanges on the > > > internet. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Santosh > > > > > > > > > --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Nasty" Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > 'That I am a Christian and have been > > > enlightened!' > > > > > > > > > > Really??? > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > Do not post admin requests to the list. > Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
The common understanding of multiculturalism and enlightenment has no resemblance with what has been described in this thread so far. Multiculturalism as we know it refers to tolerance and respect for all religions, non-religions and cultures. It entails the peaceful coexistence of diverse cultures in our society. It recognizes that all religions and the lack of adherence to religion are completely equal. No religion can be held in higher esteem than any other religion. No innocuous belief, practice or tradition of any culture is worthy of scorn or of special treatment. Multiculturalism and pluralism of this nature has been recognized and practiced in India for more than two millennia, i.e. at least since the time of Ashoka. Enlightenment has distinct meanings in different traditions. Literally it means lighting of ones soul. In Eastern religions it refers to achieving freedom from the cycle of life, death and rebirth. It also stands for achieving pure awareness or knowledge of the ultimate nature of reality. In Christianity it represents recognition of divine grace or the power of the almighty. In the secular tradition enlightenment is synonymous with knowledge achieved by the free exercise of reason. Indeed, the Age of Enlightenment is deemed to be a rejection of myth and superstition, and the recourse to miraculous explanation that was adopted by the Church in Europe in the Middle Ages. Well-known enlightenment thinkers in the latter vein are Rousseau, Voltaire and Hume in Europe, Jefferson and Adams in the U.S., and Raja Ram Mohan Roy and Rabindranath Tagore in India. Actually, India has a much longer tradition of rationalistic thinking of this type embedded within the ancient pre-Hindu scriptures. Cheers, Santosh --- Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nasci adds: > > Besides the enlightenment in religious orientation > and wisdom as a Goan > (Indian) Christian, I am enlightened in 'Cultural > ways' too. I/we are truly > modern and multicultural. > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
That is why the site "GoenchimXapotam" has descended into oblivion. RIP - Original Message - From: "Mario Goveia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian The attached posts show that some can confuse snide sarcasm on the internet with intelligent comment or opinion. General, non-specific sarcasm adds nothing to the debate that a forum is meant for. --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One can always detect interesting prejudices and double standards in sundry exchanges on the internet. Cheers, Santosh > > > --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > "Nasty" Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > 'That I am a Christian and have been enlightened!' > > > > Really??? > > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Enlightened Christian
To all participating in this thread, please remember: God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts... And Some wear their halos a bit too tight. Kind Regards, GL _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
This sentence is meant to evoke a response. Cheers, Santosh --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The attached posts show that some can confuse snide > sarcasm on the internet with intelligent comment or > opinion. General, non-specific sarcasm adds nothing > to the debate that a forum is meant for. > > > --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > One can always detect interesting prejudices and > > double standards in sundry exchanges on the > > internet. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Santosh > > > > > > > --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > "Nasty" Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > 'That I am a Christian and have been > > enlightened!' > > > > > > > > Really??? > > > > > > > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
The attached posts show that some can confuse snide sarcasm on the internet with intelligent comment or opinion. General, non-specific sarcasm adds nothing to the debate that a forum is meant for. > --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One can always detect interesting prejudices and > double standards in sundry exchanges on the > internet. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > > > > --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > "Nasty" Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > 'That I am a Christian and have been > enlightened!' > > > > > > Really??? > > > > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Enlightened Christian
One can always detect interesting prejudices and double standards in sundry exchanges on the internet. Cheers, Santosh --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kevin, > > > I know you are a staunch atheist evangelist, but can > you expand on your question or do you think snide > sarcasm is a substitute for a coherent question, > comment or opinion? > > > > > --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > "Nasty" Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > 'That I am a Christian and have been enlightened!' > > > > Really??? > > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
