Re: [Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- --- Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: U talk of deliveries at home; U have to be rich and pay for all that'. I did that and more and was even used to shopping for these items in person; but it was not easy. So what I am saying is that the situ has not changed even after 20 years. Have you ever gone and bought 'fish' in Margao, or done any shopping yourself; Then you will know the problems. Rich men's life like you describe, can be had anywhere; but when you try to live yourself, in Goa, it is tough. So I am not complaining, per se! only saying that the old situation has not progressed, but rather regressed; Mario responds: Why would I go buy fish in the market and cook when I'm on vacation, and then complain because it's tough? I let the local Goans, who do it all year round, go buy the fish and beef and pork and vegetables, and cook it better than I can and deliver the food to me, while I sit in my balcao sipping local Belo beer and feni. We all benefit. BTW, I only buy local Belo beer in Goa because the brewmaster is my friend. So, please support Belo beer when you are in Goa. Nasci, you keep talking about rich, but I do not pay any extra other than tips for delivery, which is worth my time when I'm on vacation. You need to learn how to organize better, man, so that you have more fun and less to complain about. My point is that you, who doesn't even live there, complains about every single detail, no matter where you go in India. It's too noisy, the buses are too crowded, it's too dirty, the food is bad, the roads are bad, tourists are getting fleeced, you can't buy milk as and when you want, and on and on. To me that sounds like the Goa I remember before 1961. I don't think India has regressed at all, just the opposite. The local people tell me that things have improved, even though much still needs to be done. It is YOU who has changed, and want everyone back home in India to know about it. Then you go back to Australia. In the meantime millions of people are going to India every year and enjoying every minute they are there. Nasci writes: Whilst you are talking of the 'Fidalgo' life in the old tradition. What about the common man and the not so rich tourist like me. You are suggesting: to hell with every one else's discomfort as long as Mario can live like a fidalgo! You are saying there are no power outages in Goa. you must be living in virtual America; Did u carry some generators with you? In Margao and all over Goa there are interruptions to power at least 10 to 15 times a day, every day. Mario replies: I don't know about Margao, but I live in Panjim when I'm in Goa, mostly in February. If we had 10 to 15 power outages a day I would certainly know it. But I do have one complaint. We noticed some ants on our kitchen counter, who apparently came to check us out. Some Borax powder told them they should leave and not to return. I forgot to tell everyone on Goanet about those pesky ants, but you reminded me that alls not well in Goa:-)) Nasci, I migrated because I was not a Fidalgo. Is there anything wrong with that? Now I can pretend I'm a Fidalgo for a few days a year in Goa. If I wanted to spend my life obsessing about everyone else's discomfort I would have become a missionary or a social worker. If you visit India as frequently as you do and travel all over India, you can afford to do exactly what I do. You just have the wrong attitude and approach, in my opinion. I go to India to enjoy myself, realize where I am, adjust to local conditions, organize for my benefit, I'm happy to be there and enjoy my trip. You seem to go with a chip on your shoulder, and a check-list of what's wrong. You demand that India change to suit you, and then complain to high heaven that it has not changed enough to suit you. Like I've said before, India is not everyone's cuppa tea. Based on your comments, it's not good for your physical or mental health to go there. I can promise you, it will be the same for you the next time and every time as long as you live. Noisy, dirty, crowded, evil. Not good. Isn't that why you left? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone who has read my hardly-nuanced opinions on this subject would know that I have always clearly distinguished between colonial Portugal, which I strongly opposed, and modern Portugal, which I have described as a second-class European country that is not coming back to Goa again to be a nanny for the benefit of the upper-class Goan Portophiles. Looks like you have totally misundestood all the Lusophiles on this forum. Nobody wants Portugal to come back as a Nanny. What we don't like, Mr. super Mario, is that you refer to Portugal the way you do. And many lusophiles are not upper-class either. Got it? Gabriel de Figueiredo. On yahoo!7 Avatars: Dress up like your Dancing with the Stars favourites! http://au.avatars.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- Mario, I like to have Milk for my supper, before going to bed; When I lived in a hotel in Margao. and used to go out to get milk, there was none available, anywhere; I know it can be delivered at home etc, in the mornings; and that is what I did, when I lived there, before migrating; U talk of deliveries at home; U have to be rich and pay for all that'. I did that and more and was even used to shopping for these items in person; but it was not easy. So what I am saying is that the situ has not changed even after 20 years. One can still not go to any shop and buy milk as and when one needs it! Understand or not. Why is this, when India is supposed to the largest producer of milk? Have you ever gone and bought 'fish' in Margao, or done any shopping yourself; Then you will know the problems. Rich men's life like you describe, can be had anywhere; but when you try to live yourself, in Goa, it is tough. So I am not complaining, per se! only saying that the old situation has not progressed, but rather regressed; Understand? Like that, I can boast that I lived better than you are doing now in Miramar; and Me and my wife used to do it ourselves and get satisfaction because of it. Whilst you are talking of the 'Fidalgo' life in the old tradition. What about the common man and the not so rich tourist like me. I did not talk about 'runs' in Goa, but in Mumbai where the same is very endemic; Look at the stats for those type of illnesses treated and the amount of pharma medicines sold, for 'runs'. You should not distort, my observations, and transport them. Even in Goa, u should go see for yourself, how the food is cooked in beach shacks and the dishes etc washed, with the limited water available; etc etc. There is no water available for the cooks and waiters to wash their hands, which is a must for good hygiene in food places. U dont need to be a super power to have cleanliness and hygiene in life. Goa and India must first learn to have food, distribution and marketing systems, to internationally advanced standards.. A close examination of priorities is a must for any aspiring country to the stutus of developed country first, before persons like you can talk of India as a super power. Heard bazaar talk: are super market abhi tak nahin hai! phir super power kahan se ayeinga? Bizli power paheila batao; phir super power ko dekenga! samja kyi ka nahin? When I talk of fear of coming to India, on holiday; I am not talikng of people fear; but of my health and of driving fear; and the scare of perinneal road chaos. So its not my attitude, but that of the total scene in India. Mario, I have better manners and compassion and better friends among the people, then u can ever dream of. I am not complaining of people per se; but of the systems, be it transport, marketing, hygiene. public services etc. And of course people like you, who presume every one can live like a 'Fidalgo' like you. Sub kuch chalta hai! Mario, instead of trying to understand what I am saying; you are trying to make amends for the system. Have you travelled in a crowded bus, from Panjim to Calangute/ Candolim or from Margao to Colva or to Cavelossim/ Mobor. I dont look down on these people on a superior /inferior complex. but on a cleanniness filty/ smelly basis. I had to travel on these buses, as I can not afford the doubly expensive taxi fares that are encoraged by fidalgos like yoyu. 'Personal Space' is hardly there at any time on these buses; it is 'assault' all the time, if one considers personal space! Or does a super power not have to bother about these things. Come on Mario. You are suggesting: to hell with every one else's discomfort as long as Mario can live like a fidalgo! You are saying there are no power outages in Goa. you must be living in virtual America; Did u carry some generators with you? In Margao and all over Goa there are interruptions to power at least 10 to 15 times a day, every day. Even one time a day is abnormal and uncomfortable and disruptive. So what is this nonsense you are talking about? Mario, You are talking about thousands of real foreign tourists; let me tell you, they are being fleeced, being taken for a ride, in Goa, as well as in the rest of India. They have no outlet to register their complaints, like I am able to do here; Give these tourists a genuine place to complain about their stay; and they will be many millions of complaints. Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. _ Do not post admin requests to the
[Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- Gabe Menezes writes Sun Apr 9: Nasci, you are correct on the first assumption that 'one' has changed their attitude and confrontational style towards Portugal and Lusophiles, in short, volte-face! Mario responds: The above claim of a volte-face by me is patently bogus. Anyone who has read my hardly-nuanced opinions on this subject would know that I have always clearly distinguished between colonial Portugal, which I strongly opposed, and modern Portugal, which I have described as a second-class European country that is not coming back to Goa again to be a nanny for the benefit of the upper-class Goan Portophiles. I have also expressed delight at hearing from Henrique Salles da Fonseca , a REAL Portuguese citizen by the way (as opposed to a Passport-Portuguese) that Portugal is implementing economic policies that will make it a first-class European country. Finally I have always expressed an appreciation for the REAL Portuguese people, then and now, for being the nicest and least discriminatory of all Europeans, and compared them favorably with the snobbish Brits of colonial times who looked down on native Indians. The Goan Passport-Portuguese could learn a thing or two about looking down on others, like the Kannadigas, Keralites, Bhayyas, Kashmiris, etc., from the REAL Portuguese, who have accepted people of all races and treat them all the same. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- Hello Gabe, Unlike U say, I actually want to write with the headline, 'Stop baiting Mario', because he has argued well, inspite of mistakes and agonising some netters. He is the one who has successfully argued against the blatant anti americanism (just for the sake of it) as also against agnostics and scientists and philosophers, and helped put these 'Intelligent?' guys in their place. At least this is my humble view, from the common man's point and stand! Just because some of Mario may have hurt, does not mean the whole apple is bad. He has more good reasoning than otherwise. Bye with regards! Nasci. -- Gabe Menezes wrote: Comment: Nasci, you are correct on the first assumption that 'one' has changed their attitude and confrontational style towards Portugal and Lusophiles, in short, volte-face! Also I believe you meant to write 'Mario, stop your baiting' rather than 'Stop baiting Mario' which implies the exact opposite! -- Gabe Menezes. London, England _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- --- Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mario, I have read you, and find that you are sometimes contradicting yourself! Mario replies: Nasci, I never contradict myself in my never humble opinion:-)) If you read everything I write and catch all the nuances, not just remember what you want to, you would know that I have not been contradictory on Portugal at all. I have always strongly distinguished between the colonial Portugal, which I strongly opposed on philosophical grounds as an Indian nationalist when I was growing up in India, and the modern Portugal, which has been a second-rate European country for decades. However, I was very happy to hear from Henrique that Portugal is now implementing Reaganomic policies of low taxes and limited government that will change that. If they stick with it, and control government spending, they will surely surpass the economically stagnant European countries like Italy, Germany and France. I have been especially complimentary towards the Portuguese people, then and now, because I believe they are the nicest and least discriminatory of all the Europeans. Why would I be against modern Portugal and it's interests after so many Portuguese have adopted Goan Catholic names and even named a village after my family:-)) Nasci writes: I am glad that I migrated to Australia, the real living breathing Paradise from the old paradise Goa, that has been taken over by uncouth people and vagrants, hawkers and stray rabid dogs. Mario like I have said, in one of my earlier postings, that you have certainly read; I did not migrate for economic reasons, at all; Mario replies: Nasci, you don't have to explain all this to me, because I did exactly the same thing, except that I migrated to America. You may not know this but Australia is my favorite foreign country because it always stands with us against the bad guys. Nasci continues: Yes I agree with you here; but that does not mean, we non residents must not give advice and or debate the various issues confronting Goa and India. Mario responds: Nasci, you must have not seen my reply to your previous post where I did a Mea Culpa about chiding you and Bernardo for giving advice to the Indians. Nasci writes: ...I have been really scared to come and live in India. Only recently on retirement, some of my Bombay friends put some courage into me. Mario writes: Whether I'm in downtown Kingston, Tijuana, the Bronx, or on Mohamadally Road, I never project fear, because I'm always happy to be there and the locals respond accordingly. I think your biggest problem is your bad attitude, which I'm sure everyone can see from a mile away. A decade ago I had actually given up on India. We sold all our property that had not already been stolen by Mundkars and shrewd relatives, thinking I would never go back. However, during a visit in 2001, I had what could only be described as an epiphany. I began to see India through new eyes, bought a condo in Miramar, and now we go there every year and plan to spend more and more time there as we get older. Nasci writes: Jaipur, Agra and Delhi; I spent a month in these places; and was not impressed; Thence in Bombay I had meals in the so called good restaurants; but one evening I was let down; I got the 'RUNS. I revisited Goa alone (except for a three day stay in Bombay on my return schedule) in November and December 2005; and did not find any improvements, the same old story confirms the horrors. When in my hotel, I felt nice with a modern Room and 65 channel TV etc. and I met up with a lot of foreign European tourists too, only to find their disgust, at the chaos and the filth outside. The bus services were the same old story. jam packed with Kannadigas and Keralites (workers) vying for handle space with locals and the ever present Kashmiri businessmen. Mario responds: Nasci, I think I am beginning to see your problem. You don't like to be close to people you think are inferior to you. I think you are also suffering from long-term memory loss. Everything bad that you have so accurately described about India and Goa has always been that way, in fact far worse before 1961 in Goa, except then you did not have to ride the bus with the dastardly working-class Kannadigas and Keralites, and Kashmiri businessmen. You must have forgotten to mention the Bhayyas that some others have a big problem with. Actually, IT IS YOU who has changed in only 19 years into this sterile, fastidious Australian, who finds India
[Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- On 08/04/06, Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mario, I have read you, and find that you are sometimes contradicting yourself! I was going to write on two subjects: namely; 'Stop baiting Mario' and 'Stop Portugal Bashing' without rhyme or reason. The 'Stop Portugal Bashingl' was meant for poeple like you, (albeit, in your last two postings, your view on Portugal has changed significantly) but I might still go ahead with it. But 'Stop baiting Mario' is another matter, as of now! Comment: Nasci, you are correct on the first assumption that 'one' has changed their attitude and confrontational style towards Portugal and Lusophiles, in short, volte-face! Also I believe you meant to write 'Mario, stop your baiting' rather than 'Stop baiting Mario' which implies the exact opposite! -- TUMCHER AXIRVAD ASSUM; DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- Nasci-- After reading your perspective, Goa/India does seem a difficult place especially to those who have been away for a while. I have recently befriended a Goan of rather significant achievement who has been in the U.S. for only four years and he is completely turned off by what is happening back home, both in Bombay and Goa--the filth and, especially, the corruption. I have personally been a victim at the Indian Customs because I carried two bottles of booze instead of one (the duty-free shop told me that two bottles were allowed) and the customs officer was brazen enough to demand a bribe right in the open. But my experience, I am told, is peanuts when compared to what the likes of Bal Thackeray's extortion of big business and the wealthy (what we here in the U.S. call the achievers). Your narrative, though painful to read nevertheless hits home-- though in our longing (and memories) for our dear land we prefer to pretend all is well. I am confident good will eventually prevail--perhaps not in our lifetime. Thanks for the honesty and the forthrightness. Chris _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Goa's appalling Road Sense!(re Mario's comment)
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- Hello Mario, I have read you, and find that you are sometimes contradicting yourself! I was going to write on two subjects: namely; 'Stop baiting Mario' and 'Stop Portugal Bashing' without rhyme or reason. The 'Stop Portugal Bashingl' was meant for poeple like you, (albeit, in your last two postings, your view on Portugal has changed significantly) but I might still go ahead with it. But 'Stop baiting Mario' is another matter, as of now! I proceed now to respond to your comments. :-) Mario observes: Whew! Nasci, now tell us what you REALLY think of India. Aren't you glad you migrated to Australia? Nasci: I am glad that I migrated to Australia, the real living breathing Paradise from the old paradise Goa, that has been taken over by uncouth people and vagrants, hawkers and stray rabid dogs. Mario like I have said, in one of my earlier postings, that you have certainly read; I did not migrate for economic reasons, at all; 'cause I had a Career and I was prosperous, in a way. I left India, for the good life and good envirinment. I was 'sick' of the socio religious stupidities and idyiosyncracies in practice, in India, and in Goa, the continual power failures, erratic water supply, no road sense, no proper roads, crowded trains and buses, crowded with human filth too, uncouth and obnoxious; shortages of food items, queues everywhere, hopeless sanitation and sewerage, and government incompetence, the gaunkari and other politics, etc. All of that makes life like Hell! Mario: As I have said in a previous post, India should be avoided by the fastidious and faint of heart, for their own health and sanity. Leave it alone, PLEASE, for those of us who enjoy going there, mainly to bask in the incomparable warmth and hospitality of friends and family. No one in India is going to miss a few thousand crabby and dis-satisfied expats. I don't know whether you grew up in India or not, but the chaos and mess that you describe has always been a part of the Indian scene. To be sure, some of it is disgusting and drives me nuts, but there are other things that more than compensate, and that's what I tend to focus on, and enjoy. India, believe it or not, has changed for the better over the last 35 years since I left it. Nasci: Yes I agree with you here; but that does not mean, we non residents must not give advice and or debate the various issues confronting Goa and India. You migrated 35 years earlier; I did only 19 years earlier; so I have suffered more on India's and Goa's shortcomings! As a result I feel the pain all the more, that nothing has really improved, from the situ that I have described in the first para. I returned to Goa/Bombay for three weeks in 1989, as part of my working tour that took me from Australia to Europe and return via N. Delhi. Since then I have been really scared to come and live in India. Only recently on retirement, some of my Bombay friends put some courage into me. I went to Goa and Bombay, to meet with my friends and the few relatives left behind; and what happens is that, the moment I step out of my hotel or friends home , I am in third world chaos. Even when inside, the continual interruption to power reminds me that I am in underdeveloped Goa! and I feel so sad. 'Sorrowing Lies My Land'. I visited India and Goa for three months, from October 2005. My first ever visit to North India: Jaipur, Agra and Delhi; I spent a month in these places; and was not impressed; the quality of life is far from claims about progress etc. Everywhere I found dirt, vagrants, noisy street processions, and the silence and beauty of night broken by rowdy noisy wedding and religious processions, well into the early hours of the morning. This happens in N. Delhi. One night in my hotel, when the unbearable noise finally stopped at around four in the morning; one European guest was 'smart enough' to open his window and turn his TV out on to the street at a very high volume; for some two hours, and he and his partner challenged anybody to come and stop them! That much for life in Delhi. Except for the Parliament and Govt places, and a few tourist areas, I was not impressed. Thence in Bombay it was no better, after all Bombay had definitely changed to Mumbai!. I had meals in the so called good restaurants; but one evening I was let down; I got the 'RUNS. even from this supposedly good eating place. In Bombays famed BEST buses, I had to kill two large size cockroaches running wild on deck; had to kill and offend the Jains, before they could get into my
