Re: [Goanet] The married priest
--- Lawrence Rodrigues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > << The Catholic Church has a very specific and very > high-minded reason for wanting their priests to be > celibate, and this reason has so far superceded the > arguments in favor of married priests. >> Mario G > > ...and the Church is *never* wrong? > > Are not food, clothing, shelter, sex, the basic > human needs? > Mario replies: > Who defines right and wrong? If you follow the discussion of celibacy on www.vatican.va you will see that sex being a basic human need has something to do with why it was imposed.
Re: [Goanet] The married priest
<< The Catholic Church has a very specific and very high-minded reason for wanting their priests to be celibate, and this reason has so far superceded the arguments in favor of married priests. >> Mario G ...and the Church is *never* wrong? Are not food, clothing, shelter, sex, the basic human needs? Lawrence -- PS: If you wish to have a *Gmail* e-mail address, do write to me. Will send you an invitation to open a *Gmail* e-mail account. :-)
Re: [Goanet] The married priest
Valmiki, Since you digressed without meaning to, my opinion is that these pets are considered playthings for their owners. I am not a pet owner any more, and when I had pets I never had them sterilized. We have a famous Canadian vet on Goanet who is probably deeply involved in implementing the "cruelty" that you see. Maybe the vet and other pet owners can explain the issues involved in having pets castrated/sterilized. --- Valmiki Faleiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Without meaning to digress from the issue/s under > debate, > couldn't help wondering... > > Why do some people still get their pet canines and > pigs > castrated/sterilized? > > Isn't that cruel? > VF > > > --- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> My bigger question is to ask why the Catholic > Church > >> is seemingly secretive about the matter of > married > >> priests? > >>
Re: [Goanet] The married priest
Without meaning to digress from the issue/s under debate, couldn't help wondering... Why do some people still get their pet canines and pigs castrated/sterilized? Isn't that cruel? VF --- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My bigger question is to ask why the Catholic Church is seemingly secretive about the matter of married priests?
Re: [Goanet] The married priest
--- Vivian D'Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Forcing priests to live a celibate life, which I > suspect many privately do not comply with, is > inhuman. The natural human sexual urges cannot be > suppresed forever. The results are quite obvious > with all the news stories one hears these days > about the sexual shenanigans of the clergy. > > When will the Catholic church ever wake up ? > Mario adds: > The only caveat I would offer to Vivian's positive experiences with Protestant clergy, which are quite similar to my own in the US, is that the "human sexual urges" that resulted in the "the news stories one hears these days about the sexual shenanigans of the clergy", is to the insinuation that the celibacy rule had anything to do with these shenanigans. > First of all, many married Protestant clergy have also been accused of similar shenanigans with far less media attention, and secondly, the shenanigans by the celibate Catholic clergy were mostly aimed at young boys, with very few exceptions. > The conclusion seems to be that the shenanigans of the pedophiles had little if anything to do with the celibacy rule. > So far, the official Catholic Church believes that the reasons for the celibacy rule outweigh the reasons for allowing priests to marry.
Re: [Goanet] The married priest
--- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My bigger question is to ask why the Catholic Church > is seemingly secretive about the matter of married > priests? > Mario replies: > Just because you did not know that married priests from other Christian denominations are allowed to stay married when they convert and become Catholic priests does not mean that the Church has been secretive. This is a well known exception to the rule. I believe even married Catholics who then become priests fall under this exception. > The Catholic Church has a very specific and very high-minded reason for wanting their priests to be celibate, and this reason has so far superceded the arguments in favor of married priests.
Re: [Goanet] The married priest (I'm married to one)
Hi Viviana, Many thanks for your response to my post. I am as happy as you are with the concept and reality of married RC priests. Thanks too for the reasons you provided re the Vatican position. What about my positive view of women as priests? Cornel - Original Message - From: "Viviana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] The married priest (I'm married to one) Hello Cornel - I'm quite pleased to see this post - married Priesthood is near and dear to my heart! I'm married to a priest and I've known for probably 15 years, thanks to an article in Time magazine, that there are HUNDREDS of married RC priests in the US functioning with full Vatican approval. These men came over to Rome from Canterbury for different reasons (mostly they are against the ordination of women and practicing homosexuals) and are in parishes all over the United States. My married priest did the opposite - Ariosto went from Rome to the Anglican Church. I remember when I first met Ariosto, while he was a Salesian of Don Bosco, I casually mentioned to him (*wink*wink*) about married RC priests and HE had never heard of it, yet he'd been ordained for almost 20 years at the time. I'm not even sure he believed me but then of course came to know it's true. His Parish Priest at the first Anglican Parish where he served also made the switch to Rome a few years ago and brought his wife and daughter with him to St. Catherine's Roman Catholic Church in Burlingame, California, just down the road from us. While there are some Goans who were supportive from the beginning of our marriage (being an inter-racial couple was another "problem"), there was some consternation among the Goan community here in the Bay Area and in Goa, but now, all these many years later, most people have come to accept us. Ariosto was recently asked to celebrate the Mass for the 21st birthday of a young Goan man and many Goans did receive Holy Communion. Goan women who had refused to speak to me or even look at me for more than a decade were downright friendly - it was really a turning point for us, and the young man's mother is a very courageous woman. Ariosto performs about 30 marriages each year and it does come as a surprise to many people that he's married. He enjoys being a married priest and always believed that there was no reason why he couldn't be both. WRT your original question (for those of you who are still awake) I do believe that Rome keeps secret for a few reasons. The obvious one is MONEY. It would cost a lot of money to support married priests and their families, wouldn't it? Another view, held by David Rice in his book Shattered Vows, Exodus from The Priesthood, is that the Church needs its priests to be obedient, loyal and devoted to the Pope, not their wives and children. A third, and this is MY opinion, is that it would be difficult to explain to the fellows who have lived celibate and probably lonely lives why the other guys can have families and they can't. I assure you that not all RC priests know that some of their colleagues are married. Viviana cornel wrote: Very recently, I attended, a Roman Catholic wedding ceremony in London..
[Goanet] The married priest
Regarding Cornel's post. A few years ago I attended a wedding in the USA, and I too was very impressed by the sermon given by the priest, who was not so young. Something he said in his sermon made me inquire. Turned out that he indeed had been married and had 7 children. Then his wife died and he received special dispensation as a widower, to join the seminary and get ordained. The experience of having lived a married life clearly showed in his homilies. They were down to earth and reflective of a person having lived a "full" life. A couple of years ago, my son got married in the USA to a girl of the Lutheran faith, in a Lutheran church. I was so taken up by the down to earth homily by the married Lutheran pastor, that I am convinced that priests in the Catholic church should also be allowed to get married if they so choose. Forcing priests to live a celibate life, which I suspect many privately do not comply with, is inhuman. The natural human sexual urges cannot be suppresed forever. The results are quite obvious with all the news stories one hears these days about the sexual shenanigans of the clergy. When will the Catholic church ever wake up ? And why not women priests ? Are women sub-human and less capable than men ? I am sure that in the early days of the Catholic church there were prominent women leaders. Those who oppose ordination of women use spurious arguments that do not hold water. Vivian
Re: [Goanet] The married priest
--- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Very recently, I attended, a Roman Catholic wedding > ceremony in London. I have read of an other Catholic priest being married via the Anglican way. I guess those who feel the 'need' (there are plenty of them) should become anglican and then come back to their origins. B. Colaço ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet] The married priest (I'm married to one)
Hello Cornel - I'm quite pleased to see this post - married Priesthood is near and dear to my heart! I'm married to a priest and I've known for probably 15 years, thanks to an article in Time magazine, that there are HUNDREDS of married RC priests in the US functioning with full Vatican approval. These men came over to Rome from Canterbury for different reasons (mostly they are against the ordination of women and practicing homosexuals) and are in parishes all over the United States. My married priest did the opposite - Ariosto went from Rome to the Anglican Church. I remember when I first met Ariosto, while he was a Salesian of Don Bosco, I casually mentioned to him (*wink*wink*) about married RC priests and HE had never heard of it, yet he'd been ordained for almost 20 years at the time. I'm not even sure he believed me but then of course came to know it's true. His Parish Priest at the first Anglican Parish where he served also made the switch to Rome a few years ago and brought his wife and daughter with him to St. Catherine's Roman Catholic Church in Burlingame, California, just down the road from us. While there are some Goans who were supportive from the beginning of our marriage (being an inter-racial couple was another "problem"), there was some consternation among the Goan community here in the Bay Area and in Goa, but now, all these many years later, most people have come to accept us. Ariosto was recently asked to celebrate the Mass for the 21st birthday of a young Goan man and many Goans did receive Holy Communion. Goan women who had refused to speak to me or even look at me for more than a decade were downright friendly - it was really a turning point for us, and the young man's mother is a very courageous woman. Ariosto performs about 30 marriages each year and it does come as a surprise to many people that he's married. He enjoys being a married priest and always believed that there was no reason why he couldn't be both. WRT your original question (for those of you who are still awake) I do believe that Rome keeps secret for a few reasons. The obvious one is MONEY. It would cost a lot of money to support married priests and their families, wouldn't it? Another view, held by David Rice in his book Shattered Vows, Exodus from The Priesthood, is that the Church needs its priests to be obedient, loyal and devoted to the Pope, not their wives and children. A third, and this is MY opinion, is that it would be difficult to explain to the fellows who have lived celibate and probably lonely lives why the other guys can have families and they can't. I assure you that not all RC priests know that some of their colleagues are married. Viviana cornel wrote: Very recently, I attended, a Roman Catholic wedding ceremony in London..
[Goanet] The married priest
Very recently, I attended, a Roman Catholic wedding ceremony in London. It was between the daughter of a close Managlorean friend and her English groom. At the church service, the English priest seemed remarkably humorous in his advice to the couple and he also seemed incredibly well informed about sexual matters and the ups and downs of married life. My wife and I simply assumed that as a celibate, he was perhaps particularly well read on such matters. However, at the wedding reception we learned that the priest was indeed a married man. Apparently, he had been so for many years, as an Anglican minister with a family but had now opted for Catholicism and had been accepted through special dispensation/permission by the Vatican to practise as a Catholic priest. I now wonder if there are many more married priest practioners in the Catholic Church, in Goa and across the world. Personally, I have always wanted Catholic clergy to be able to live normal lives as married persons as was the case in early Christian times. There are many reasons for this view but which I will not spell out for now, but hopefully, Goanetters will respond to my view as stated above. I am also keen that women should be able to become priests in the RC Church. My bigger question is to ask why the Catholic Church is seemingly secretive about the matter of married priests? Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.
