Re: [Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . . I have no interest in arguing about them any further. I am sorry. Amen. _ Scan and help eliminate destructive viruses from your inbound and outbound e-mail and attachments. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.
[Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Marlon: As a born again Christian yourself, I am surprised you would want to discount or be ashamed of the very successful contribution of the moral group. Dan: Marlon, Thanks for your reasoned response. I just wanted to clarify that my response is not because I'm ashamed of the contribution of my fellow believers or because I'm trying to discount their vote in this election. I just think that the moral vote is a little simplistic and that perhaps they are reaching a conclusion that is not really researched well enough. If Democrats were to go by this conclusion and adjust their strategy accordingly they would be basing their campaign on a false premise. As Peter pointed out: The numbers of Christians who voted this year were not proportionately higher than those who voted in 2000 where moral issues were not even considered as a voting factor in the polls (if I remember right). Regards, Dan
Re: [Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dan, David Brooks has consistently been in the pro-Bush camp and it is not surprising that he and many others have tried to portray Bush's victory as a broad based victory. Even in strongly pro Bush states such as Texas, one saw very strong pro-Kerry support in metropolitan areas and in regions surrounding top tier educational centers of learning. The liberal NY times post that you refer(like many other news sources) carries opinions from both sides of the divide and as you correctly mention did not refect its editorial opinion. As a born again Christian yourself, I am surprised you would want to discount or be ashamed of the very successful contribution of the moral group. The end result is that Bush won and Karl Rove, the chief Republican strategist, is a genius for recognizing this group after the narrow 2000 results. The numbers do not lie. 22% of the electorate listed moral factors as their top issue. Of this group around 80% voted for Bush. The next big issue was the econonomy (20% of the voters), with ~80% of this block voting for Kerry. The democrats clearly failed to mobilize their core supporters as effectively as their republican strategists. Some attribute the lack of organization amongst the democrats to the fact that they relied too much on third party groups such as MoveOn or ACT. Likewise, some democrats have made rather shameless comments on how they need to more effectively attract the religious right to their cause. In my opinion, such phony pandering to the fundamentalists would be fatal to their claim of plurality and tolerance. Futhermore, it is unlikely that the fundamentalists would be deceived by the democrat's sudden conversion. Marlon --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh, There's plenty of conservative news sources out there claiming that values are what determined the outcome of this Presidential election. Perhaps so. The point of the NY Times link was to show that there are liberal sources (like the NY Times) who seem to think otherwise. I do concede that as an op-ed piece it is just an opinion. However, did you find yourself disagreeing with the points made in the op-ed piece that I linked to? Dan
Re: [Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The point of the NY Times link was to show that there are liberal sources (like the NY Times) who seem to think otherwise. David Brooks is a conservative columnist who happens to write for the New York Times. I do concede that as an op-ed piece it is just an opinion. This is the right attitude to have in such matters. However, did you find yourself disagreeing with the points made in the op-ed piece that I linked to? Yes, I do. But I have no interest in arguing about them any further. I am sorry. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Santosh, There's plenty of conservative news sources out there claiming that values are what determined the outcome of this Presidential election. Perhaps so. The point of the NY Times link was to show that there are liberal sources (like the NY Times) who seem to think otherwise. I do concede that as an op-ed piece it is just an opinion. However, did you find yourself disagreeing with the points made in the op-ed piece that I linked to? Dan
Re: [Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Dan Soares wrote: http://tinyurl.com/3lga8 (linked to David Brook's article) Santosh Helekar responded: What better way there is to counter a link from New York Times than to provide a link from Fox News that says exactly the opposite? Link: http://tinyurl.com/42wyj [Both links abbreviated via tinyurl.com] Santosh, David Brooks doesn't actually contradict the statements in the Fox News article. In fact, all he says is that the numbers of evangelical Christians who voted this year were not *proportionately higher* than those who voted in 2000. The actual number of evangelical voters may have grown, but so did the numbers for other demographic groups. In the Fox News story you cited one of the analysts said: I think the biggest surprise was that the social concerns best associated with the Evangelicals resonated with people who did not necessarily fit that group. That statement is part of the point that David Brooks was trying to make. So the mass turnout by the left (Paul Krugman's predictor of a Bush defeat) was effectively countered by a proportionately high turnout by the right (a.k.a. the correct). Peter
Re: [Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/06/opinion/06brooks.html?oref=loginn=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fDavid%20Brooks What better way there is to counter a link from New York Times than to provide a link from Fox News that says exactly the opposite? Link: http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,137535,00.html Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/06/opinion/06brooks.html?oref=loginn=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fDavid%20Brooks
