[Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year.
In Anjuna, traditionally, neighbors in each ward get together on the evening of June 23 and celebrate JUDEV. They prepare a pile of dry hay in front of each house, set it on fire and when it burns completely, they sing the line: SAM JUANV SANGOLL, KURPECHO DONGOR, JUDEVACHO GOBOR! As the last word of the line is uttered, everyone lifts a PIDDO and begins to hit the burnt hay until the last kindle is beaten off. The last two words of the line JUDEVACHO GOBOR means destruction of Jews into ashes because of St. John's beheading by the Jewish King of Judea. The process is called Judev boddovnk! Moi-mogan, Domnic Fernandes Anjuna, Goa Mob: 8805237604/9420979201
[Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year.
JoeGoaUk wrote: . Well, our Mhar tradition has nothing to do with Mahar (Bamboo cane weavers) or Cobbler for that matter. Btw, Cobbler is Chamar both being ST/SC community of Goa. I used Mhar because if just used mar it would mean to beat or kill Our mhar was an effigy (stuffed with straw) formal dressed old man sitted on an arm chair with pant, shoes, shirt, suit (old coat) and not forgetting a hat (not cap) on his head Because, many villages or wards in the vicinity ?also celebrated the tradition, I think it has become a sort of a competition and hence the slogans criticising each other?s ?mhar? or effigy e.g. Amghe Mhar derantulo, tumghe mhar kerantule (our mhar is local, yours is not) Amghe mhar Kellem hata, tumghe mhar sal hata (ours eats banana, yours eat banana skin) We did not know it significance or why we celebrated in on 23rd June (until I read some comments now). The tradition was not banned or atleast were not aware of it, it died a natural death like many other traditions. It was very much active until late 70s.? We also did it for money, I suppose. For many, ?Mhar? means a devil or Evil spirit. Tuje tokler mhar bosla kitem? Could also mean ?tuje tokler deuchar bosla kitem?? ?Bhurgim nam ball, zivak poddleai zall? itli gireskai konnak? Melo munnttoch tuji gireskai mhar-deuchar khaun oitolo. Ever heard of ?Kannginintlo mhar?? (Scare-crow) There is also a ?mhar-Kavllo? (wild Crow?) ? Don't get confused when you hear 'Mar-coinsanv, Mar-Kiter, Mar-Santan, Mar-Feliz etc where Mar in this case is short form of Maria or Marie :-) However, we also heard ?Mahram kastacho? which is totally unrelated to above. After going through pros cons of the various comments, I guess Radharao?s version is right. http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2013-June/231370.html Comment: While Radharao may be correct in pointing out the Semitic origins of the Judev tradition, Joegoauk is quite mistaken when he denies the Mhar caste adaptation of the tradition in Goa. The Mhar although probably an older settler in Goa was obviously the outsider who was relegated to the outskirts of the village. A Judev or Jew was someone who did not have significance as a target of ridicule among the Goans. So someone cleverly substituted Mhars for Judevs, as they are one of the communities who had a long history of being ostracized, thus making the Judev custom eminently understandable to the locals. After the seventies or so when Joegoauk says the custom died out, it is likely that due to the influence of the Indian Constitution and the more liberal outlook which it engendered, which frowns at such blatant discrimination, it became untenable to target Mhars so openly, and so the custom quietly died a natural death. Augusto __ __ From: JoeGoaUk joegoauk at yahoo.co.uk To: goanet at goanet.org goanet at goanet.org Sent: Friday, 31 May 2013 7:02 AM On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc)?sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev). Amghe Mhar derantulo Tumghe mhar Kerantulo char-anne dil bhogor alna muntta derantulo Ku, ku, ku (followed by striking of pidde) There was a modern version that goes like this.. Oile bhandari, chuddit polem Xempdde dorit oddit alem Jaki bhail kit mudditu Mharachim bott(am) modditu pidde http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk72/8804831027/in/photostream this tradition died?in late 70s -- Augusto Pinto 40, Novo Portugal Moira, Bardez Goa, India E pinto...@gmail.com P 0832-2470336 M 9881126350
[Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year.
Subject: Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year. Thanks to many for participation in this discussion, some of the posts I only read today. Well, our Mhar tradition has nothing to do with ‘Mahar’ (Bamboo cane weavers) or Cobbler for that matter. Btw, Cobbler is ‘Chamar’ both being ST/SC community of Goa. I used ‘Mhar’ because if just used ‘mar’ it would mean ‘to beat or kill’ Our mhar was an effigy (stuffed with straw) formal dressed old man sitted on an arm chair with pant, shoes, shirt, suit (old coat) and not forgetting a hat (not cap) on his head. We even inserted a cigar or cigar-pipe in his mouth. His face would be like that of Carnival bearded Mask, we kept one for this occasion. Ordinary Mask with no facial hair was costing 50p, add just 10p and you got bearded one with moustache. The Chair will have two bamboo rods/poles underneath making 4 handles (two in front 2 at the back) So that 2 persons can carry the sitted mahar including carrying on shoulders. We carried him house to house, chanted the traditional slogans (see below)followed by striking of ‘pidde’. Each one was holding one piddo. On an average we got 12p per house, highest would be 25p (char anne) (Coins were available in the denomination of 1p, 2p, 3p, 5p, 10p 20p, 25p, 50p) Usually started from 3pm and ended at dusk. When the night falls, we burnt the ‘Mhar’ with firecrackers in his tummy etc.(not along with the chair, hat though). Money so collected were distributed amongst us equally and each one would get about Rs.3 Because, many villages or wards in the vicinity also celebrated the tradition, I think it has become a sort of a competition and hence the slogans criticising each other’s ‘mhar’ or effigy e.g. Amghe Mhar derantulo, tumghe mhar kerantule (our mhar is local, yours is not) Amghe mhar Kellem hata, tumghe mhar sal hata (ours eats banana, yours eat banana skin) We did not know it significance or why we celebrated in on 23rd June (until I read some comments now). The tradition was not banned or atleast were not aware of it, it died a natural death like many other traditions. It was very much active until late 70s. We also did it for money, I suppose. For many, ‘Mhar’ means a devil or Evil spirit. Tuje tokler mhar bosla kitem? Could also mean ‘tuje tokler deuchar bosla kitem?’ ‘Bhurgim nam ball, zivak poddleai zall’ itli gireskai konnak? Melo munnttoch tuji gireskai mhar-deuchar khaun oitolo. Ever heard of ‘Kannginintlo mhar’? (Scare-crow) There is also a ‘mhar-Kavllo’ (wild Crow?) Don't get confused when you hear 'Mar-coinsanv, Mar-Kiter, Mar-Santan, Mar-Feliz etc where Mar in this case is short form of Maria or Marie :-) However, we also heard ‘Mahram kastacho’ which is totally unrelated to above. After going through pros cons of the various comments, I guess Radharao’s version is right. http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2013-June/231370.html Quote: Some one from my place just reminded me of this Atta-kitti zata Petti chavi katta Amkam kitem potta Ku ku ku (sound of opening/unlocking pett or trunk, where money is kept) Another: Amghe mhar Kell(em) hata Tumghe mhar sal hata (banana skin) From: JoeGoaUk joegoauk at yahoo.co.uk To: goanet at goanet.org goanet at goanet.org Sent: Friday, 31 May 2013 7:02 AM On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc) sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev). Amghe Mhar derantulo Tumghe mhar Kerantulo char-anne dil bhogor alna muntta derantulo Ku, ku, ku (followed by striking of pidde) There was a modern version that goes like this.. Oile bhandari, chuddit polem Xempdde dorit oddit alem Jaki bhail kit mudditu Mharachim bott(am) modditu pidde http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk72/8804831027/in/photostream this tradition died in late 70s
Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
Kill the Jew is part of the historical anti Jewish tirade of Christianity. The practice was observed in Goa on 23rd of June, i.e. on the eve of the Feast of St.John the Baptist. The date is significant and relates to the imprisonment and beheading of St.John the Baptist by King Herod of the Jews. Kill the Jew is reprisal for the slaying of St.John the Baptist ! On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Alfred de Tavares alfredtava...@hotmail.com wrote: Eric, I think there is an inadvertant miss' infra, as our jc would say... Should'nt it rather be 'mar'. 'Mhar' is a cobbler or bamboo-worker by profession which, lamentably, places the group as untouchable---casteless; Whereas, 'mar' is (to) kill; 'mar zudev/zudev mar' thus rendering it as kill (the) Jew. Although casteless, there was never any bitterness/animosity vs the shoe- or baset- makers, in Goa, unless, woebegone, one of them dared enter a Hindu brahmin house through the front door, enter a Hindu temple by whichever door or even cross the shadow of a H. brahmin, however tainted the later may be... Oh...I forgot, if the poor devil dared use a village well...he/mostly, she was done for. Chacha...trying to impress (a bit) on his knowledge of 'castology'. Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 22:58:05 -0700 From: ericpin...@yahoo.com To: joego...@yahoo.co.uk; goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year Kill the Jew ! The practice is banned. Israel had issued a formal protest to the Foreign Ministry several years ago. The government in Goa then responded.eric. On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc) sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev).
Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
Dear Radharao, Very interesting. Would you know whether or not this ritual was brought on from the time of the Inquisition. Or originated perhaps by an over zealous prelate/ a zealot. Is Judeo/v also also employed to disambiguate (at least in the past) to suggest something else. : ) And yet Goan daughters are named Salome. Have not come yet across a Herodias. venantius j pinto Message: 9 Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 16:03:32 +0530 From: radharao gracias graciasradha...@gmail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year Kill the Jew is part of the historical anti Jewish tirade of Christianity. The practice was observed in Goa on 23rd of June, i.e. on the eve of the Feast of St.John the Baptist. The date is significant and relates to the imprisonment and beheading of St.John the Baptist by King Herod of the Jews. Kill the Jew is reprisal for the slaying of St.John the Baptist !
Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
From: radharao gracias Kill the Jew is part of the historical anti Jewish tirade of Christianity. The practice was observed in Goa on 23rd of June, i.e. on the eve of the Feast of St. John the Baptist. Response: Headline: India cancels 'antisemitic' festival Source: The Jerusalem Post. 12 July 1995 Text: The Indian government has withdrawn funding from the Christian celebration of Judeo, a local custom which has antisemitic overtones. Judeo is traditionally celebrated on June 23 every year. But the Clube Nationale in Panaji, Goa, didn't mark the event this year. Club president Francisco Martins said that several Goan citizens had protested against the celebrations. While pointing out that most people were unaware that the festival was antisemitic, Martins said: We feel this is a positive step as we do not have anything against the Jews. Judeo's origins go back to Portugal's 450 years of colonial rule over Goa. On the eve of the feast of John the Baptist, a procession would consign a straw-and-cloth effigy to a bonfire amid cheers. Local political sources speculate that India's decision is due to the recent normalization of ties with Israel. === On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Alfred de Tavares alfredtava...@hotmail.com wrote: Eric, I think there is an inadvertant miss' infra, as our jc would say... Should'nt it rather be 'mar'. 'Mhar' is a cobbler or bamboo-worker by profession which, lamentably, places the group as untouchable---casteless; Whereas, 'mar' is (to) kill; 'mar zudev/zudev mar' thus rendering it as kill (the) Jew. Although casteless, there was never any bitterness/animosity vs the shoe- or baset- makers, in Goa, unless, woebegone, one of them dared enter a Hindu brahmin house through the front door, enter a Hindu temple by whichever door or even cross the shadow of a H. brahmin, however tainted the later may be... Oh...I forgot, if the poor devil dared use a village well...he/mostly, she was done for. Chacha...trying to impress (a bit) on his knowledge of 'castology'. Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 22:58:05 -0700 From: ericpin...@yahoo.com To: joego...@yahoo.co.uk; goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year Kill the Jew ! The practice is banned. Israel had issued a formal protest to the Foreign Ministry several years ago. The government in Goa then responded.eric. On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc) sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev).
Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
Amgem mhar Dabolecho Tumgem mhar Mopacho Ku re ku From: radharao gracias graciasradha...@gmail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year Kill the Jew is part of the historical anti Jewish tirade of Christianity. The practice was observed in Goa on 23rd of June, i.e. on the eve of the Feast of St.John the Baptist. The date is significant and relates to the imprisonment and beheading of St.John the Baptist by King Herod of the Jews. Kill the Jew is reprisal for the slaying of St.John the Baptist !
Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
The strong possibility to consider is that fallen apostle Judas Iscariot (Jud), who was a Jew (Judeo Dhormacho). Jude, Judah, Judas all come from the same root). Now if Mar Judeo came before the Inquisition in Goa (1560/61-1774) then in all probability the ritual Mar Judev(o) got compounded with the latter. It could go the other way too. But then one may be able to possibly find the date the ritual began in Church or Confraeria records. Could it also be that Jud/ev is/was also an euphemism in Konkanim. Then there are these phrases to think upon: Mar Jud, Mar Judev. Mhar Judev In the above placement, its as though the aggression builds up! Something seems to be missing. See: Mar Judevak, Mhar Judevak, Mar Judevank... Another conflation could be the Mar with Mhar (Mahar), and I would not be shocked if there is more to this. Many of our festivals albeit less obviously so, now are collaborative, so this rituals could have had similar antecedents, to mean participatory. It may have something to do with Jews, Inquisition, and Judases; while also something learnt under the banner of the Inquisition. My Grand uncle was Padre, Alvaro Lodovico Figueiredo (missionar: Karwar, Dharvar, Parish Priest of Raibandar, on radio, etc). He breathed his last at the Clergy Home in Porvorim. I am not speculating across the board but talking from my faint memory / what I heard as a child in Batim. I had a frightening memory until I was felled. But thats a another story. NOTEs: There were two Judas' among the twelve. The other was Thaddeus/Jude/Judas (patron of Hopeless causes/ ses) and a son of James. Then there is a third Judas, but nothing to do with the twelve, and encountered at a later time. venantius j pinto Message: 1 Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 21:10:24 +0200 From: Alfred de Tavares alfredtava...@hotmail.com To: Eric Pinto ericpin...@yahoo.com, Joe GoaUk joego...@yahoo.co.uk, GOANET Lists goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year Eric, I think there is an inadvertant miss' infra, as our jc would say... Should'nt it rather be 'mar'. 'Mhar' is a cobbler or bamboo-worker by profession which, lamentably, places the group as untouchable---casteless; Whereas, 'mar' is (to) kill; 'mar zudev/zudev mar' thus rendering it as kill (the) Jew. Although casteless, there was never any bitterness/animosity vs the shoe- or baset- makers, in Goa, unless, woebegone, one of them dared enter a Hindu brahmin house through the front door, enter a Hindu temple by whichever door or even cross the shadow of a H. brahmin, however tainted the later may be... Oh...I forgot, if the poor devil dared use a village well...he/mostly, she was done for. Chacha...trying to impress (a bit) on his knowledge of 'castology'.
[Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
Some one from my place just reminded me this Atta-kitti zata Petti chavi katta Amkam kitem potta Ku ku ku From: JoeGoaUk joego...@yahoo.co.uk To: goa...@goanet.org goa...@goanet.org Sent: Friday, 31 May 2013 7:02 AM Subject: [GOAN-NRI] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc) sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev). Tumghe mhar derantulo Amghe Mhar Kerantulo char-anne dil bhogor alna muntta derantulo Ku, ku, ku (followed by striking of pidde) There was a modern version that goes like this.. Oile bhandari, chuddit polem Xempdde dorit oddit alem Jaki bhail kit mudditu Mharachim bott(am) modditu pidde http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk72/8804831027/in/photostream this tradition died in late 70s joego...@yahoo.co.uk for Goa NRI related info... http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ For Goan Video Clips http://youtube.com/joeukgoa In Goa, Dial 1 0 8 For Hospital, Police, Fire etc __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a new topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: * New Members 2 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___
[Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
Kill the Jew ! The practice is banned. Israel had issued a formal protest to the Foreign Ministry several years ago. The government in Goa then responded. eric. On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc) sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev).
Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
Eric, I think there is an inadvertant miss' infra, as our jc would say... Should'nt it rather be 'mar'. 'Mhar' is a cobbler or bamboo-worker by profession which, lamentably, places the group as untouchable---casteless; Whereas, 'mar' is (to) kill; 'mar zudev/zudev mar' thus rendering it as kill (the) Jew. Although casteless, there was never any bitterness/animosity vs the shoe- or baset- makers, in Goa, unless, woebegone, one of them dared enter a Hindu brahmin house through the front door, enter a Hindu temple by whichever door or even cross the shadow of a H. brahmin, however tainted the later may be... Oh...I forgot, if the poor devil dared use a village well...he/mostly, she was done for. Chacha...trying to impress (a bit) on his knowledge of 'castology'. Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 22:58:05 -0700 From: ericpin...@yahoo.com To: joego...@yahoo.co.uk; goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year Kill the Jew ! The practice is banned. Israel had issued a formal protest to the Foreign Ministry several years ago. The government in Goa then responded.eric. On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc) sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev).
Re: [Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
Alfred de Tavares alfredtava...@hotmail.com asked Eric 'Should'nt it rather be 'mar'.? RESPONSE: Dear Chacha, The revisionistic inclusion of the H in words (Hanv) and names ( Mhapsa) by recent Goemcars (or is it Ghoykers?) notwithstanding, IF the intent was to denote the term Cobbler, then Mhar or Mahar would be right. IF NOT . Not. jc
[Goanet] Tradition of Mhar or Zudev celebration on 23rd June every year
On the 23rd June every year, a day before Sao Joao, we also celebrated 'mhar' or 'zudev', an old man made up of straw (with pant, shirt, shoes, hat etc) sitted on a chair, we carried him house to house where we used these pidde to hit or strike the ground saying 'Mhar re, Zud re, ku, ku, ku'. This was a tradition in salcette, don't know it's significance though (Zudev also mean Judev). Tumghe mhar derantulo Amghe Mhar Kerantulo char-anne dil bhogor alna muntta derantulo Ku, ku, ku (followed by striking of pidde) There was a modern version that goes like this.. Oile bhandari, chuddit polem Xempdde dorit oddit alem Jaki bhail kit mudditu Mharachim bott(am) modditu pidde http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk72/8804831027/in/photostream this tradition died in late 70s joego...@yahoo.co.uk for Goa NRI related info... http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ For Goan Video Clips http://youtube.com/joeukgoa In Goa, Dial 1 0 8 For Hospital, Police, Fire etc
