Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. On 02/03/07, Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Frederick, Why should I answer all these random questions you pose? You don't have to do anything in life. But if you join a discussion on Goanet, we need to know where you're coming from, what your perspectives are, and leave it to readers to decide how logical (or propagandistic) you're being. My random questions are repeated below, for readers to judge how random they are: * Do you see Congress corruption/communalism and BJP communalism/ corruption as two sides of the same coin? Or is one 'holier' than the other? We can also talk about regional party opportunism and manipulation by the Big Two parties, to skew the results, if you wish... * When you say the PDAs are corrupt these days is that a freudian slip that gives a hint of your perspective, or are you suggesting that the PDAs were not corrupt during the regime of your relative in the CM's chair? Just like quite some campaigners sought to suggest that the Regional Plan 2011 had nothing to do with the regime of Lord Manohar Parrikar? [We have heard Hema Sardessai speak out in Panjim, haven't we?] Or the ex-CM's glib claim that his party has nothing to do with the real estate lobby just because his MLAs are not big players in that lobby? * If someone gobbling land is a big issue, how come the issue of land ceilings was raised by those today shouting against the takeover of Goa and the Russian mafia and creating at least some issues out of exaggerated fears? Are we concerned also about landlordism in the hinterland, or the misuse of 9th Schedule protected Mundkar and Agri Tenancy Acts for political purposes? * Will you continue writing with as much vehemence, or just stop after elections 2007, depending on who wins the hustings? Or will it just become an issue of praising good governance then? As the records of Usenet postings of the past would make clear? I had no political agenda when I made the initial post with this subject header yet your morbid imagination insisted on seeing one. Very interesting. For those who might not know, may I refer to [1] for a better depiction of your lack of a political agenda. We all have our views, our relations (or daijim) ... so why deny that and them? It annoys you that someone like me can support Parrikar because it intrudes on the narrative you have constructed and seek to propagandize: that all Parrikar supporters are saffronistas, RSS fundamentalists, intolerant bigots, fascists, and accomplices in murder. Sorry pal, that won't wash. What do you mean by support? You have every right to support everyone you choose. But if your support means attacking online anyone who is critical of that hero of yours, then that deserves to be discussed and countered. See what you've been posting against journalists who take a stance against your patron saint, including Sujoy Gupta [2] and Rajan Narayan [3]. Contrasted against this, it is very nice to see you in your green garb now, playing on Catholic fears about land alienation ... The politically-correct hooey issuing from you is no doubt calculated to impress your non-Goan Hindu friends, I don't see people (except when Parrikar Parrikar force me to think alone these lines... and I'm ashamed for doing it!) as non-Goan or Hindu or even friends. If I wanted to impress anyone, I would be trying with some other bigoted constituency which is easier to work on ... I'm taking a stand which I feel is fair, consistent and equally applicable to me when, say, I travel to Delhi next week (or if I was rich enough to buy an inch of land there). to reveal that behind those udders overflowing with the milk of magnanimity lies a Renaissance man whom all the paranoid Catholics would do well to heed. Au contraire, the biggest intolerants are fellows like you, who brook no dissent, who stomach no difference in viewpoints other than the ones circulating in your Brook no dissent? In what way? The only reason why your posts are irritating is because they get very personalised and flame-baitish. Otherwise, I appreciate all criticism, which I will either respond to or ignore. Before spreading disinformation, would you be willing to share with Goanet whether I've ever blocked a single post of yours on soc.culture.indian.goa Usenet newsgroup? Despite the fact that that newsgroup is moderated and has a clear charter that was framed and voted for
Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. One more note before my exit - The question about the bhaile invasion is a serious one, deserving of a free and open discussion among Goenkars. The scale, composition repercussions of the new bhailes (at both ends of the economic scale) pouring into Goa versus that of the bhailes who came, say, 20-30 years ago, is a legitimate topic for deliberation observation, not to mention interesting from a sociological p.o.v. But it would be impossible to inaugurate and sustain such a discussion on Goanet since the self-righteous Frederick Noronhas on this list would pounce on you and - (a) deny that bhailes are coming in at all, citing a 'study' from some godforsaken institute nobody has heard of conducted by a 'noted expert' nobody gives a shit about. (b) deny that Goa can be overrun by the sheer mass of humanity that surrounds it (effectively Goa's death warrant was signed in 1961 - and no, I am not a Portuguese sympathiser) and dismiss it as Catholic paranoia fueled by Manohar Parrikar through his proxy Rajan P. This hole can be plugged easily if only one learnt to count and took a look at Goa on a map of India. (c) climb the high horse and call me anti-Indian and xenophobic. This is a v good strategy since it instantly confers on him the status of hero among his non-Goan friends, brown white, and marks him out at once as a man of balance, wisdom and a deep insight into the complexities of the human condition. Warm regards, r Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 22:47 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Dear Frederick, It annoys you that someone like me can support Parrikar because it intrudes on the narrative you have constructed and seek to propagandize: that all Parrikar supporters are saffronistas, RSS fundamentalists, intolerant bigots, fascists, and accomplices in murder. Sorry pal, that won't wash. That doesn't seem to be what FN has been saying. Obviously, a lot of Parrikar supporters are genuinely good people who have the interests of India, Goa and the masses at heart, just as there are many Rane supporters and Willy supporters and Arlekar supporters and so on (probably even Babush supporters :-) who ditto. On the other hand, if FN is saying that RSS people (of whom Parrikar is one) are fundamentalists, intolerant bigots, fascists and accomplices in murder, that is absolutely spot on. These are the people who refer to the assassination of Gandhi (carried out by them and at their behest) as Gandhi vadh (vadh is when you kill a demon) rather than Gandhi hatya (meaning murder, employed when you kill a human being); these same people have carried on in this vein throughout, with peaks ascended at the time of the Babri Masjid demolition (wasn't Parrikar a karsevak, which in this case translates as vandaliser of historical monuments and spreader of communal hatred) and the Gujarat pogrom. These are the people who are currently celebrating the birth centenary of Guru Golwalkar, who openly admired Hitler and the final solution and recommended that it be emulated in India. He went on to say that minorities in India should accept the superiority of the Hindu religion, or live in this country as second-class citizens, with not even basic rights. Au contraire, the biggest intolerants are fellows like you, who brook no dissent, who stomach no difference in viewpoints other than the ones circulating in your own cocoon of the oh-so-liberal pretenders. Those not hewing to your line are quickly slapped on with readymade labels (RSS, Hindutva, saffronistas etc). Well, this is a new one on me, FN is intolerant! In many mailgroups he moderates he is always at pains to ensure that viewpoints opposing his are carried. And as for your other rants: The politically-correct hooey issuing from you is no doubt calculated to impress your non-Goan Hindu friends, to reveal that behind those udders overflowing with the milk of magnanimity lies a Renaissance man whom all the paranoid Catholics would do well to heed. Who's engaging in labelling and name-calling? Dressing it up in fancy language doesn't make it any prettier. And then to say that FN does exactly this is a little thick. Refrain from doing it yourself and then accuse others. I may have made a determination that currently Manohar Parrikar is the better of all available political options (others may have arrived at a different conclusion based on their own views and experiences, which is their basic right in a democratic system). But, of course, nobody has questioned your right in this regard. They are merely questioning whether you are right in this regard :-) So there's no need to get uptight. We can have political differences at the level of whom/what party to vote for, without all this name calling. If you do have any concrete examples of FN engaging in labelling, name calling and abuse on internet forums, please let me know, I can add the stuff to the dossier I am building up on the man :-) Mine is a provisional reckoning. I am not a BJP party man, never was, and I retain the right to change my view about Manohar P. should I deem it necessary. That's what's great about democracy. Of course you have a right to support Manohar Parrikar or whomsoever you want, and you have a right to change that view whenever you want, as do all of us. Let's say amen to that! -- Question everything -- Karl Marx
Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers/to Rajan
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Rajan, I've been scouring for your posts on Goanet with a great deal of delight these days, if only for their eloquence because there is quite a degree of divergence in our ideology at times. The forays into Frederick's ego are amusing since the first thing that google presented on you came from Frederick's blog, which was very flattering indeed. So I have to wonder if there's a tacit agreement to appear adversarial. In anycase, I wish you wouldn't exit and exhibit the lady doth protest too much syndrome (leave that one to me, which I play to the hilt from time to time :-) I agree entirely with you that the mass migration into Goa has to be addressed and I tried to do so very logically when I first came onto this forum. I even brought Maltus into it. Yes, I was shouted down. So you see I need a prop. My reasons are selfish but do stay. Selma --- Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (c) climb the high horse and call me anti-Indian and xenophobic. This is a v good strategy since it instantly confers on him the status of hero among his non-Goan friends, brown white, and marks him out at once as a man of balance, wisdom and a deep insight into the complexities of the human condition. Warm regards, Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pray, what are you doing in Dilli then? Or does equal opportunity for you mean the chance to call someone else a savage when he comes to your land, and see yourself as a civilising force when you squeeze out opportunity in his? This is capitalism, friend. The law of the jungle. Big fish eating up small fish. Why are we shouting selectively about corruption alone, when neither the Congress (obviously) nor the BJP (less obviously, but more organisedly) managed to control to curb it during their rules in power? Is this an attempt to really fight corruption, or just to influence the voter? I sincerely hope all the saffronistas who have changed colours of late (and now suddenly find Goanet a great place for campaigning too) will retain their green hues after the 2007 election results bring in a Punjab (we have enough Sardinhas and Wilfreds and Badals around) or an Uttarkhand to Panaji. Besides, occupying dissent space and controlling the debate is a neat tactic we have seen taken up in Goa, not as effectively under the Congress rule though. To repeat the questions I raise in a simpler-to-understand language, lest you again duck the issue with your bombast: * Do you see Congress corruption/communalism and BJP communalism/ corruption as two sides of the same coin? Or is one 'holier' than the other? We can also talk about regional party opportunism and manipulation by the Big Two parties, to skew the results, if you wish... * When you say the PDAs are corrupt these days is that a freudian slip that gives a hint of your perspective, or are you suggesting that the PDAs were not corrupt during the regime of your relative in the CM's chair? Just like quite some campaigners sought to suggest that the Regional Plan 2011 had nothing to do with the regime of Lord Manohar Parrikar? [We have heard Hema Sardessai speak out in Panjim, haven't we?] Or the ex-CM's glib claim that his party has nothing to do with the real estate lobby just because his MLAs are not big players in that lobby? * If someone gobbling land is a big issue, how come the issue of land ceilings was raised by those today shouting against the takeover of Goa and the Russian mafia and creating at least some issues out of exaggerated fears? Are we concerned also about landlordism in the hinterland, or the misuse of 9th Schedule protected Mundkar and Agri Tenancy Acts for political purposes? * Will you continue writing with as much vehemence, or just stop after elections 2007, depending on who wins the hustings? Or will it just become an issue of praising good governance then? As the records of Usenet postings of the past would make clear? I think the tenor of your arguments aren't helpful for taking the debate forward. But that is not for me to decide on. At most, I could ignore other flame-baits or provocatively argued posts. After all Usenet has different standards from a moderated mailing list. Anyway I will (moderator-permitting) allow myself the luxury of continuing in this tone just this once. But my stand remains that such space-occupying 'dissent' moves need to be viewed with the skepticism due and deserved. FN On 28/02/07, Rajan P. Parrikar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please stop being a whiny old Goanet-nanny. It must be a terrible burden wading through life being so literal-minded. The power of generalisation also must be anathema to you. For instance, if I say the North Indian cow belt is backward, uncouth and crass, most sensible people will get it but I suspect FN will adduce Harish Chandra's masterful mathematical papers as 'proof' of the statement's untruth (after asserting that cows don't wear belts). Or say, I hold forth that Bengalis are a culturally sophisticated people, FN will surely produce an unschooled bong runt from Mymensingh as proof of my simplistic pedantry. I have much more to say on the Dilli savage, but we'll keep that for another day. But I'll say it again: keep the Dilli savage out of Goa. (How? I don't know).
Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that gives a hint of your perspective, or are you suggesting that the PDAs were not corrupt during the regime of your relative in the CM's chair? Dear Frederick, You are a strange one. No relative of mine was ever in the CM's chair. Wow, you do set high standards of fact-checking for fellow journos. Manohar P comes from the same larger family in Parra, but he belongs to the collateral branch. Of course, although I haven't tried, I can possibly construct a kindred connection. But then, with a little more effort I can do the same with George W. Bush, too, with the new techniques of genetic tracing available. Also: The only hint perspective in your doodle above is the extent of tribalism prevalent in your thinking. As if I would condone corruption if my relatives practiced it. Warm regards, r Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Frederick, Why should I answer all these random questions you pose? Or address every bee that pops into your bonnet? You think you are making some deep points merely because you can string together a slew of questions? I had no political agenda when I made the initial post with this subject header yet your morbid imagination insisted on seeing one. It annoys you that someone like me can support Parrikar because it intrudes on the narrative you have constructed and seek to propagandize: that all Parrikar supporters are saffronistas, RSS fundamentalists, intolerant bigots, fascists, and accomplices in murder. Sorry pal, that won't wash. The politically-correct hooey issuing from you is no doubt calculated to impress your non-Goan Hindu friends, to reveal that behind those udders overflowing with the milk of magnanimity lies a Renaissance man whom all the paranoid Catholics would do well to heed. Au contraire, the biggest intolerants are fellows like you, who brook no dissent, who stomach no difference in viewpoints other than the ones circulating in your own cocoon of the oh-so-liberal pretenders. Those not hewing to your line are quickly slapped on with readymade labels (RSS, Hindutva, saffronistas etc). Furthermore, you, FN, have no locus standi whatsoever to ask me to justify my opinions. When Parrikar was in power, you posted tirades against him on scig day after day for years under the guise of news, while masquerading as an objective journalist. You wrote that intellectually dishonest screed in EPW on the VCD for which I issued a rebuttal on scig (and didn't hear a peep from you about it). Now that Goa is being screwed by everyone you are tongue-tied, you have nothing to say about it. Your cojones perk up only when they stumble on BJP and Manohar Parrikar. Shame on you. Now read this slowly (ask for help is necessary; it will efface not one pixel off your dummy image): I am not pro-X or pro-Y. I am first and last, pro-Goa. I may have made a determination that currently Manohar Parrikar is the better of all available political options (others may have arrived at a different conclusion based on their own views and experiences, which is their basic right in a democratic system). Mine is a provisional reckoning. I am not a BJP party man, never was, and I retain the right to change my view about Manohar P. should I deem it necessary. Is that simple enough for you? Have I comfortably made the grade of both saffronista and simplistic with this little para? I didn't sign up on Goanet with an intent to engage in political skirmishes. I initially registered only to post announcements of my Goa on the Brink exhibition. I ought to have checked out soon thereafter instead of wasting my time. Perhaps I will. At any rate, may it be known that scorn from the likes of FN is a POINT IN MY FAVOUR. Warm regards, r --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pray, what are you doing in Dilli then? Or does equal opportunity for you mean the chance to call someone else a savage when he comes to your land, and see yourself as a civilising force when you squeeze out opportunity in his? This is capitalism, friend. The law of the jungle. Big fish eating up small fish. Why are we shouting selectively about corruption alone, when neither the Congress (obviously) nor the BJP (less obviously, but more organisedly) managed to control to curb it during their rules in power? Is this an attempt to really fight corruption, or just to influence the voter? I sincerely hope all the saffronistas who have changed colours of late (and now suddenly find Goanet a great place for campaigning too) will retain their green hues after the 2007 election results bring in a Punjab (we have enough Sardinhas and Wilfreds and Badals around) or an Uttarkhand to Panaji. Besides, occupying dissent space and controlling the debate is a neat tactic we have seen taken up in Goa, not as effectively under the Congress rule though. To repeat the questions I raise in a simpler-to-understand language, lest you again duck the issue with your bombast: * Do you see Congress corruption/communalism and BJP communalism/ corruption as two sides of the same coin? Or is one 'holier' than the other? We can also talk about regional party opportunism and manipulation by the Big Two parties, to skew the results, if you
Re: [Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what are we talking about? * Congress corruption? * Corruption in Goa? * Iniquitious land ownership (a big issue among Goans too never focussed on)? * A state which always has had no land-ceiling act, under all parties? * An election issue, based on the Goan Catholic paranoia about land-alienation (when there are other issues also needing to be tackled)? Dear Frederick, The answer is, none of the above. There were two parts to my original posting, which you would have figured out if you had the good sense to treat your finger-itch with Odomas instead of the Send Reply button. Let me try this one time to dust off the cobwebs wedged in the interstices of whatever it is that goes for your mind. In the first part, I was simply reporting on an ad I saw in a Delhi newspaper, the ferocious zeal with which property in Goa is being marketed sought by people located in the NCR (National Capital Region). As a supplementary remark I wondered about the de rigueur violations the high incidence of corruption in land deals in Goa. Are you with me thus far, or are you still seeing ghosts of BJP, Manohar Parrikar, or an anti-Congress campaign I may be hiding up my sleeve? [Aside: So what about the recent exhibition I held in Panjim? Per the standards of logic FN has established here, it must no doubt have been a subliminal anti-Congress/pro-BJP campaign under the guise of saving Goa. After all, most of the photos indirectly indicted the current administation, and the clincher was, Manohar Parrikar came and took a good look. Ergo, in FN's bizarro universe, this subterfuge of an exhibition was all along really a pro-BJP ploy!] Optional English quiz: did you mean iniquitous above or did you mean inequitable? The problem with calling people savage is that it cuts all ways. Mostly unfairly. Please stop being a whiny old Goanet-nanny. It must be a terrible burden wading through life being so literal-minded. The power of generalisation also must be anathema to you. For instance, if I say the North Indian cow belt is backward, uncouth and crass, most sensible people will get it but I suspect FN will adduce Harish Chandra's masterful mathematical papers as 'proof' of the statement's untruth (after asserting that cows don't wear belts). Or say, I hold forth that Bengalis are a culturally sophisticated people, FN will surely produce an unschooled bong runt from Mymensingh as proof of my simplistic pedantry. I have much more to say on the Dilli savage, but we'll keep that for another day. But I'll say it again: keep the Dilli savage out of Goa. (How? I don't know). Warm regards, r What if someone says the Goa savage should be kept out of Dilli? Or, if the savage definition takes on a religious hue (remember the Shiv Sena in not-so-distant Mumbai)? I know some Catholics (they are not far from Goanet) for whom anyone not sharing the same religion is a savage. Ditto for what we have experienced during BJP rule in Goa, and the Sanvordem riots. Rajan, this is a good emotive issue... but I would hesitate before taking simplistic stands. FN Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
[Goanet] Ads for Goan property in Delhi newspapers
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] A couple of months ago there was a slew of notices in the Delhi newspapers for seminars in 5-star hotels on How to Buy Property in Goa. Yesterday I saw an ad by the OSB Group for a project called Sea Shells coming up near Bogmalo beach. It promises to be a residential complex with built-in potential for conversion into a premium resort. Now what the hell does that mean? The ad carried the stamp of PDA Approved. We know what it takes to get a PDA approval these days. Question - does this project violate CRZ or any other regulations? Keep the Dilli savage out of Goa. That should be the motto of every Goan. (I am counting on FN to wave the We Are All Indians manual at me:-). Warm regards, r Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
