Re: [Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger!
I actually oppose any premise, being inscribed in stone, that one should only attack the message and not the messenger. What if the messenger insists on spreading misrepresentations and does not withdraw them when he does neither provide nor possess supportive evidence? Frederick Noronha has sent out an uncalled for fame bait' on to Eddie Fernandes. Is it not against GoaNet rules to send out 'flame baits'? So why is a moderator breaking GoaNet rules? And should he not be fired? BTW: Frederick Noronha has yet to withdraw his LIE that jose colaco said/gave the impression that Colonialism started in Goa only after 1961 Now I also invite him to provide proof of the Rs 100,000 that he says - 1970s Goans trained as doctors, owed India. He further goes on to make insinuations that Goan doctors (and other professionals) sold their expertise cheap overseas. I wonder what he has to say about Freelance Journos who sell stories to entities abroad. Are they selling them at the same rate as 'foreign journos' or cheaper? Somehow I get the feeling that Salazar has not left Goa. jc 2010/1/14 Eddie Fernandes eddie.fernan...@gmail.com Dear Frederick, Marlon is quite right. I never for a moment thought that I was being personally targeted. The RG vs NRG row was getting tedious thanks to you stoking it up! Can you accept that? We are all entitled to have and to share our views - whether we are RG, NRG, Indian, or whatever! Consider the message rather than the messenger's stable or religion or colour! For now I will ignore you flame bait regarding the British expats property because I want to concentrate on an understanding that we can discuss issues whilst seated at a round table. Best wishes. Eddie Fernandes == -Original Message- From: marlon menezes Fred, What in Eddie's message makes you think that he is being defensive about attacks on NRGs? You're making an issue of a non-issue. All he said was that he was tired of the bickering. == From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com But one aspect I disagree strongly with is his tendency to get ultra-defensive whenever expats are criticised... or get worked up when our dubious political class here threatens the questionably-bought properties of British expats here :-) We can agree to disagree, of course. But what is this about concentrating on the message, and not the messenger? Expats or even resident-Goans for that matter are not messengers here... They are key players in this you-versus-us drama.
Re: [Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger!
I agree with Eddie. In reality, was it not Herman Carneiro, an NRG, who started Goanet? Goanet has provided voices to many, who could hardly make a dent in Goa, otherwise! I am sure the current feud will pass, as have many other similar heated discussions/feuds that have taken place, since Goanet's creation. On a lighter note, we might now need to have a Goanet for NRGs and one for RGs, so that Non Resident Goans are left to discuss their own issues, leaving the Resident Goans to discuss theirs! Naguesh Bhatcar sgbhat...@hotmail.com From: eddie.fernan...@gmail.com To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:57:00 + Subject: [Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger! Folks, I cannot be alone in finding it tiresome to read through the Samir vs. Rajan slanging match which has metamorphosed into a NRG vs. RG cursing battle! The proponents in the debates should know better! Samir and Rajan as well as many NRGs and RGs have made useful contributions to this forum so let us concentrate on the message, instead of the messenger, please! Eddie Fernandes
Re: [Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger!
My good and every-helpful long-time friend (since 1995 at least) Eddie Fernandes has many positive things to be said about him. But one aspect I disagree strongly with is his tendency to get ultra-defensive whenever expats are criticised... or get worked up when our dubious political class here threatens the questionably-bought properties of British expats here :-) We can agree to disagree, of course. But what is this about concentrating on the message, and not the messenger? Expats or even resident-Goans for that matter are not messengers here... They are key players in this you-versus-us drama. When a resident Goan criticises an expat (or vice versa), it just means that he disagrees with the latter's approach. The attempt to personalise the debate by raking up issues about funding of NGOs run by relatives, and what we have done for Goa in individual cases, are red-herrings and best overlooked while taking the debate forward. But how does this amount to not concentrating on the message, instead of the messenger? Wikipedia educates me thus: QUOTE Shooting the messenger is a metaphoric phrase used to describe the act of lashing out at the (blameless) bearer of bad news. In ancient times, messages were delivered in person by a human envoy. Sometimes, as in war, for example, the messenger was sent from the enemy camp. An easily-provoked combatant receiving such an overture could more easily vent anger (or otherwise retaliate) on the deliverer of the unpopular message than on its author, thus literally killing the messenger.[citation needed] In modern usage, the expression still refers to any kind of punishment meted out to the person bringing bad news, but has taken on an ironic dimension as well. Attacking the messenger is a subdivision of the ad hominem logical fallacy. UNQUOTE In any case, I don't think anyone is blaming the entire class of NRGs! We were only critical of those NRGs who want to have their cake and eat it, sit in the affluent world and lecture what Goa should be like... Nobody was critical of Eddie, who, I personally believe, adds excellent value to understanding Goa and her diaspora via his http://goanvoice.org.uk venture -- hint: if you haven't been there yet, please visit it! In addition, he has been an admin volunteer of Goanet, the source of much news about Goa and her people, and the collector of some 2000+ (this is a very old figure!) books on Goa. FN 2010/1/14 Eddie Fernandes eddie.fernan...@gmail.com: I cannot be alone in finding it tiresome to read through the Samir vs. Rajan slanging match which has metamorphosed into a NRG vs. RG cursing battle! The proponents in the debates should know better! Samir and Rajan as well as many NRGs and RGs have made useful contributions to this forum so let us concentrate on the message, instead of the messenger, please! Eddie Fernandes -- Frederick Noronha Columnist :: journalism :: editing :: alt.publishing :: photography :: blogging
Re: [Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger!
Fred, What in Eddie's message makes you think that he is being defensive about attacks on NRGs? You're making an issue of a non-issue. All he said was that he was tired of the bickering. Personally, I love the bickering on goanet. Where else would one get such free entertainment? Keep in coming guys! Marlon - Original Message From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com My good and every-helpful long-time friend (since 1995 at least) Eddie Fernandes has many positive things to be said about him. But one aspect I disagree strongly with is his tendency to get ultra-defensive whenever expats are criticised... or get worked up when our dubious political class here threatens the questionably-bought properties of British expats here :-) We can agree to disagree, of course. But what is this about concentrating on the message, and not the messenger? Expats or even resident-Goans for that matter are not messengers here... They are key players in this you-versus-us drama.
Re: [Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger!
Dear Frederick, Marlon is quite right. I never for a moment thought that I was being personally targeted. The RG vs NRG row was getting tedious thanks to you stoking it up! Can you accept that? We are all entitled to have and to share our views - whether we are RG, NRG, Indian, or whatever! Consider the message rather than the messenger's stable or religion or colour! For now I will ignore you flame bait regarding the British expats property because I want to concentrate on an understanding that we can discuss issues whilst seated at a round table. Best wishes. Eddie Fernandes == -Original Message- From: marlon menezes Fred, What in Eddie's message makes you think that he is being defensive about attacks on NRGs? You're making an issue of a non-issue. All he said was that he was tired of the bickering. == From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com But one aspect I disagree strongly with is his tendency to get ultra-defensive whenever expats are criticised... or get worked up when our dubious political class here threatens the questionably-bought properties of British expats here :-) We can agree to disagree, of course. But what is this about concentrating on the message, and not the messenger? Expats or even resident-Goans for that matter are not messengers here... They are key players in this you-versus-us drama.
[Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger!
Folks, I cannot be alone in finding it tiresome to read through the Samir vs. Rajan slanging match which has metamorphosed into a NRG vs. RG cursing battle! The proponents in the debates should know better! Samir and Rajan as well as many NRGs and RGs have made useful contributions to this forum so let us concentrate on the message, instead of the messenger, please! Eddie Fernandes
[Goanet] Attack the Message - Not the Messenger
Reading the messages on Goanet these days, we can be assured of one thing, that a cure for insomnia will surely be discovered soon failing which a cure for insanity at least. As a first step towards both these objectives I have started reading God and You. Speaking of NRGs, Messengers and doing something for Goa, I know of a quiet man who does a lot for Goa but who does so without shouting from the rooftops. His name is Eddie Fernandes and he lives in London. In the two years that I've known him, I don't know of day which has passed by when some Goenkar-bhav from England or one who has emigrated to England, has not contacted him, asking him for help, information, resource, contacts, a place to live, food to eat, placements of advertisements, help with their businesses and even general marital advice. To each of these queries, he responds diligently, quietly, patiently, lending a roof over people's head if need be and food on their plates if required. At times, I wonder about his patience, his resilience, his perseverance and sadly I have never been able to match it. I wonder is Eddie an NRG, who does all this for the Goan community because he sees Goa with contempt? It is sad that we see contributions to Goa, only in terms of charity or activism. There is much to be said about the quiet Goan, who goes about his business, being a good citizen, leading an honorable life, guided by his conscience and led by his integrity. There is much to be said for contemplation instead of revolution, for brain-stilling instead of brain-storming, for calm instead of frenzy for gentleness instead of fury, for reaching out and building bridges instead of burning them, for loyalty and courage instead of being bodmass cassette no. 2. Best, Selma
