Re: [Goanet] Goencar..................
Dear Floriano, Vivian and others, It is all very well to espouse the cause of Konkani. But all people are not the same as you gentlemen are. People can and do have difficulties with expressing themselves in a language they are no longer familiar with. It happens with all cultures, not necessarily Goan. There are people who have genuinely forgotten the use of of the language if they have not spoken for years, and I know a number of such people, past and present. They might understand, but the construct of the language to speak it confounds them. Then there are other Goans, brought up in today's Goa, who, for some reason, have not been spoken to in Konkani, and speak/understand only English (the Indian variety, that is). Yet others, who have not been brought up in Goa, yet speak Konkani fluently. I meet all types constantly, and sometimes my greeting in Konkani to the newly-arrived Goans to Melbourne gets a reply I am sorry but I don't speak the language, with the apology followed by some explanation (born outside Goa, but did secondary schooling in Goa, etc). All explanations accepted by me, because I understand some of the difficulties people have with languages. So please have some tolerance, and rather than getting annoyed, perhaps you could offer some assistance in getting these people to relearn (or pick up) the language once again. Think the story of the sun and the wind - benevolence always wins, antagonism always loses. Regards, Gabriel. From: floriano floriano.l...@gmail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sunday, 16 December 2012 1:30 AM Subject: [Goanet] Goencar.. With your permission, I am going to put up this post everywhere because GOANS must know that if they despise their own MOTHER TONGUE and run away from it as if it a leper they are running away, GOA will be hard to SAVE. Goans shud read the history of Jews and Israel. - Original Message - From: Vivian A. DSouza To: floriano.l...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:00 PM Subject: Goencar.. I appreciated your posts. You stated it like it is. Although I was not born in Goa nor brought up or educated in Goa, I speak Konkani proudly.
Re: [Goanet] Goencar..................
From, an other: There are many variables in the mix here. Its true that, People can and do have difficulties with expressing themselves in a language they are no longer familiar with. It happens with all cultures, not necessarily Goan. It could be seen as a collapse of memory. Moving on... It has nothing to do with being a gentleman (or for that matter, a lady), unless one means it as an euphemism for deficient (Konkani, unno (as in less/deficiency, not undo (bread!). Forgetting Konkani should not easily bring to mind that they speak/understand only English (the Indian variety, that is). There are those who speak exquisite English, and write even better although they do not speak the mai bhas. And I do not have to showcase them. They are in our midst. The aggravation when it spills over, on account of somebodies lack of Konkani chops, says more about ourselves. At the end of the day all families construct themselves in ways they see fit, even if that shaping may appear unfit (in/to our eyes). It is when we lash out, are absolutely nonchalant -- that we have a choice to not engage, engage less, move on, or maintain the possibility of effecting some manner of change/ engagement, I had one of ours tell me that he regrets not being able to converse in Konkani. That's fine, yet why so, considering that among many things obvious, this being also has the resources to set things right. But such possibilities do not gel with their modernism. Oslem unneaponn. On the other hand it could be a feint, as one ramps up ones ability in Konkani. Other than a small anecdote, it matters not. It would have mattered if I said, this ass, but then... + + My mother would exhort/ encourage us to speak in English, not in Hindi. She was not wrong in a way, but WRONG in that -- being a part of India, and having neighbors with folks from UP, Lucknow, Allahabad, almost all rank and file as us, we still had to relate beyond Level 101, not merely inquire, sab theek hai (is all ok?). Hanh (Yes, ... and a few more words). But her aspiration for us may have been what she saw was possible with certain tools, one of them being English. This lady had been pulled out of school as a child, when my grandmother got paralyzed; she never wished to get married; and when she did it was to face Bombaim (Mumbai) -- so her view must have got shaped as revealed through these few touchstones. We encouraged her to speak to us in whatever Portuguese she knew but then, it was not to be. We had no pretensions that Mother knew a lot of Portugues, since she had shared that she did not. But I had seen her do a lot with what her ability in that language. For me, it will happen sooner than later sometime in the near future. Furthermore, is it only I who wondered/ wonders whether other parents did not say something similar to my mother, to their children -- considering not having encountered such sharing. On Goanet for the longest time its been something on the lines of: My mother encouraged us to speak Konkani. NEVER: I was discouraged to speak in Braj/ Magadhi, or say Konkani! (a joke of course, but better to make it obvious). Perhaps I may be presumptuous enough to say that relatively educated parents know/ knew the winds better, and made sure that in not putting out less flattering thoughts -- that certain reminiscences would not show up in ones wards autobiography. But I cannot wait for better paper to be manufactured. Wondering what Hindu parents said to theirs could be a worth a cup of tea. But besides all the Konkani, or whatever -- not much seems to have helped our own, in basic terms -- civility, and the like. The manner in which we emote, and that taken over time says/ tells a thing or too. The operative phrase here being over time. Now I could write the same in Konkani and prove our Resident prescriptivist (NONE of you who have contributed to this conversation/discussion thus far) wrong, but that would mean me having to work OT = overtime. Um dos otros, venantius j pinto + + + + + + + Message: 6 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:23:41 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel de Figueiredo gdefigueir...@yahoo.com.au Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goencar.. Dear Floriano, Vivian and others, ? It is all very well to espouse the cause of Konkani. But all people are not the same as you gentlemen are. People can and do have difficulties with expressing themselves in a language they are no longer familiar with. It happens with all cultures, not necessarily Goan. ? There are people who have genuinely forgotten the use of of the language if they have not spoken for years, and I know a number of such people, past and present. They might understand, but the construct of the language to speak it confounds them. Then there are other Goans, brought up in today's Goa, who, for some reason, have not been spoken to in Konkani, and speak/understand only English (the Indian variety, that is).??Yet others, who have not been brought up in Goa, yet speak
Re: [Goanet] Goencar..................
Dear Gabriel, Thank you for your comments and advice. However, when you say 'benevolence always wins, antagonism always loses', what exactly did you have in mind? If you have got the story right, I was talking about a guy who was very much my junior, born and bred in Moira, went to the States sometime in his early twenties comes home 3 or 4 times in the past 30 odd years and tells me that he has forgotten Konkani completely when I meet him after 30 odd years when I was sparring with him and many others in both Konkani and English. I would certainly know who knows Konkani well and who does not, who forgets Konkani completely and who does not. You must give me credit for it. Therefore I have made it a point to plaster the globe with this example of Buffoonery from a Goan who cannot forget KONKANI. To say it succinctly AUM KAL ZOLMONKNAM And, Gabriel, if you meant 'Elections' when you said 'ANTAGONISM ALWAYS LOSES', then, for your kind information, I don't want to win elections by licking people's arses. Mine is a different type of politics, and you, above all, know it very well. Wish you and fly well. B/rgds floriano goasuraj 9890470896 - Original Message - From: Gabriel de Figueiredo gdefigueir...@yahoo.com.au To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goencar.. Dear Floriano, Vivian and others, It is all very well to espouse the cause of Konkani. But all people are not the same as you gentlemen are. People can and do have difficulties with expressing themselves in a language they are no longer familiar with. It happens with all cultures, not necessarily Goan. There are people who have genuinely forgotten the use of of the language if they have not spoken for years, and I know a number of such people, past and present. They might understand, but the construct of the language to speak it confounds them. Then there are other Goans, brought up in today's Goa, who, for some reason, have not been spoken to in Konkani, and speak/understand only English (the Indian variety, that is). Yet others, who have not been brought up in Goa, yet speak Konkani fluently. I meet all types constantly, and sometimes my greeting in Konkani to the newly-arrived Goans to Melbourne gets a reply I am sorry but I don't speak the language, with the apology followed by some explanation (born outside Goa, but did secondary schooling in Goa, etc). All explanations accepted by me, because I understand some of the difficulties people have with languages. So please have some tolerance, and rather than getting annoyed, perhaps you could offer some assistance in getting these people to relearn (or pick up) the language once again. Think the story of the sun and the wind - benevolence always wins, antagonism always loses. Regards, Gabriel. From: floriano floriano.l...@gmail.com To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sunday, 16 December 2012 1:30 AM Subject: [Goanet] Goencar.. With your permission, I am going to put up this post everywhere because GOANS must know that if they despise their own MOTHER TONGUE and run away from it as if it a leper they are running away, GOA will be hard to SAVE. Goans shud read the history of Jews and Israel. - Original Message - From: Vivian A. DSouza To: floriano.l...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:00 PM Subject: Goencar.. I appreciated your posts. You stated it like it is. Although I was not born in Goa nor brought up or educated in Goa, I speak Konkani proudly.
[Goanet] Goencar..................
Dear Dear Vivian, You are the first person who has appreciated what I had to say. To tell you frankly, I was totally disturbed at the way this guy just said it. With your permission, I am going to put up this post everywhere because GOANS must know that if they despise their own MOTHER TONGUE and run away from it as if it a leper they are running away, GOA will be hard to SAVE. Goans shud read the history of Jews and Israel. We don't need to even write it. But it is important that we SPEAK IT. Because, this is the onliest link that connects one to his mother GOA. I just love you for what you had to say, Vivian. Thank you very very much. B/rgds floriano goasuraj 9890470896 PS: I shall not wait for your permission as I know you will never say 'NO' - Original Message - From: Vivian A. DSouza To: floriano.l...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:00 PM Subject: Goencar.. I appreciated your posts. You stated it like it is. Although I was not born in Goa nor brought up or educated in Goa, I speak Konkani proudly. As a child, my parents spoke to us in English presumably to give us the opportunity to speak English in school, but amongst themselves they spoke in Konkani. Children are smart and pick up and understand Konkani by listening to their parents although not spoken to in Konkani. As a result when I came to Goa, I picked up Konkani very quickly and speak it all the time. When talking to young Goans in Goa, they respond to me in English even though I persist to speak to them in Konkani. Why is this the case ? As for your childhood friend who claims to have forgotten Konkani, this is all bloody hogwash. I came to Goa at the age of 62 and yet the Konkani that I heard as a child came back to me very quickly after 50 some years. I left East Africa 43 years ago and can still converse in Kiswahili. Anyone who claims to have forgotten his mother tongue, especially someone born and brought up in Goa, deserves all the expletives hurled against him. Keep it up ! Vivian (currently in my other home in the USA)
[Goanet] GOENCAR QUO VADIS ?
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:19:58 +0530 From: Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falc?o But I'd rather change the Goan humans not to elect donkeys to represent them. Mario responds: Excellent idea, Dr. Reis Falc?o, and the only one that is practical, I'm afraid, within the constitutional framework of Goa. As you may have noticed recently, the economic development that is being blamed by some on globalization and consumerism, the frustration with the pace of events in Goa and the corruption amongst Goan MLAs has some of out brethren wishing they could reincarnate Che Guevara as a Goan:-))
Re: [Goanet] GOENCAR QUO VADIS ?
Well doc Ferdinando, do I have your permission to send this courier mail to all our Montris, ex-Montris and the future ones in the making too, not forgetting some selected pseudo-politicians in 'flowing robes' ordinarily known as 'priests' ? Tks rgds floriano goasuraj
[Goanet] GOENCAR “QUO VADIS” ?
Once upon a time there was a King who had 4 wives. He loved his 4th wife very much; and used to shower her with beautiful presents, jewellery, and expensive clothes. He used to give her the best of everything. He also loved his 3rd wife a lot; and loved to show off her beauty to neighbouring Sovereigns; so much so, that he was scared that she might leave him for some other King. He also loved his 2nd wife. She was his adviser and was always there for him, with love and patience. Whenever the king was faced with a problem, he trusted her to overcome the difficult times. The 1st wife was a very loyal partner, and would do all within her means to keep the king very rich and powerful; him and his kingdom. But, he didn’t love his 1st wife, and in spite of her profound love, he used to ignore her. One day the king fell ill, and realised his end was near. He thought of all luxuries in his lifetime and pondered: “Yes, now I have 4 wives with me, but when I die, how many of them could I rely on?” Then he asked his 4th wife: “I have loved you very much, my love; I have draped you in the finest of clothes and jewellery. I showed you how much I loved you by taking good care of you. Now that I am dying, will you die with me so I will not be lonely?” “Under no circumstances.” replied the 4th wife; and left the room without even looking back. The reply cut the heart of the king like a sharp knife passing through. Saddened, the king then asked the 3rd wife: “I loved you also my whole life. Now that I am dying, will you also die with me not to keep me lonely?” “No!” replied the 3rd wife. “Life is great! After your death, I will marry again.” The king’s heart bled and froze in deep pain. He then asked the 2nd wife: “I always beseeched you when I required help, and you were always by my side. When I die, will you die with me to keep me company?” “I am deeply sorrowed; but this time I cannot do what you ask!” Replied the 2nd wife. “The maximum I can do is performing your burial.” This answer came as a bolt of thunder to the king’s head, and once more he was devastated. Then, a voice made itself heard: “I will leave with you and follow you wherever you go...” The king lifted his eyes and there was his 1st wife, so thin, so malnourished, so miserable... With a broken heart, the king said: “I should have taken much better care of you when I could...” In truth, we all have 4 wives in our lives... Our 4th wife is our body. In spite of all the love and effort we put in to maintain it healthy and beautiful, it will leave us when we die... Our 3rd wife, are our possessions, our properties, our riches. When we die, all these go to others. Our 2nd wife, are our family and friends. Even though we love them very much and are always there to help us, the maximum they can do is perform our burial... And our 1st wife is our SOUL, many times kept in the side lines for bothering us throughout our lifetime; about the Riches, the Power and the Pleasures of our Ego... In spite of all this, our Soul is the only thing that will always go with us, it does not matter where... So... Culture... Fortify... Sanctify... Ennoble... your SOUL NOW!!!It is the greatest gift you can give the world... and to yourself. Let it shine !!! Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. Qatar _ Tried the new MSN Messenger? It’s cool! Download now. http://messenger.msn.com/Download/Default.aspx?mkt=en-in
