Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- On Tue, 2/22/11, Bosco D bos...@canada.com wrote: RESPONSE: Nah!! Rajendra's 6 friends living in Goa can assess corruption better than Transparency International (TI) because unlike TI they do not apply a 'Corruptions Perceptions Index'. They live in Goa/India and have to endure and encounter corruption on a daily basis unlike those playing scientifically with Gaussian curves (and slopes) from TI or your fantasies on corruption. If you would like to raise your credibility on this issue go to Goa/India, stand outside any government office and interview people who came to that office for business and ask them questions related to corruption. You will have factual data and not rely on perceptions and indices. This is the most illogical and comical statement I have read in a long time. He is telling us that a non-profit organization, namely Transparency International, that has been established for the sole purpose of measuring the perceived level of corruption in the world is inferior to the perceptions of 6 friends of Rajendra and that of a Goanet moderator. Talk about credibility and self-righteousness of a person. This takes the cake. BTW, Transparency International did much more than stand outside any government office and interview people who came to that office for business and ask them questions related to corruption. They interviewed many more such people - certainly more than 6 biased friends of Rajendra - and developed an index to quantify the perceived level of corruption in each country. RESPONSE: Save yourself the finger-pointing at TI. They themselves have admitted their facts are not perfect[1]: This admission clearly indicates how credible and responsible this organization is. Contrast their admission with the incredible claim by Bosco that the perceptions of Rajendra's 6 friends and the crap that is posted on Goanet are better indicator of perceived corruption than the Corruption Perceptions Index of Transparency International. RESPONSE: Does not make-up for your spin-doctoring, mind you, it is also a lame attempt at censoring me and my opinion. Nevertheless, it was a relief to read the above from you.in one paragraph you were able to demonstrate your human weaknesses and be like the rest of us. You probably regret writing the above just as much as I regret causing you to ululate! Is he saying now that a member of Goanet has the power to censor the moderator of Goanet on his own forum? Are we living in an alternate reality today, or has he just decided that since he cannot get his way, he has to now start whining and making personal accusations? PS. I'm certain you know the actual status of corruption in Goa/India but you cannot find a way to say to Rajendra that he was right and you were wrong. You are just like any other self-righteous individual who goes on debating a thread almost infinitely..so keep goinggo ahead and defend the indefensible!! I do not know whether corruption in India has increased or decreased over the last two decades. I do not rely on my own perceptions, whether I am in Goa or not, or those of my friends and relatives in Goa (BTW, I have friends and relatives in India who tell me both, that corruption has increased and decreased in some sectors). I do not rely on Rajendra's perceptions either. For me the Transparency International's assessment is the best assessment there is so far, even though it is imperfect, and will never be perfect. What I give Rajendra credit for, is correcting my wrong impressions about comparing the indexes from one year to the next, by obtaining clarifications directly from Transparency International. Now, please go ahead and get more emotional, and pass more personal judgments against me. Please don't censor yourself, and claim that I have censored you. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
-Original Message- From: Santosh Helekar The surveys conducted by Transparency International are more scientific and better at assessing the level of corruption at any given time than talking to 6 friends. RESPONSE: Nah!! Rajendra's 6 friends living in Goa can assess corruption better than Transparency International (TI) because unlike TI they do not apply a 'Corruptions Perceptions Index'. They live in Goa/India and have to endure and encounter corruption on a daily basis unlike those playing scientifically with Gaussian curves (and slopes) from TI or your fantasies on corruption. If you would like to raise your credibility on this issue go to Goa/India, stand outside any government office and interview people who came to that office for business and ask them questions related to corruption. You will have factual data and not rely on perceptions and indices. The facts that I referred to can be independently verified at the following Transparency International website: http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results RESPONSE: Save yourself the finger-pointing at TI. They themselves have admitted their facts are not perfect[1]: From the change in CPI scores over the 10 year period, we can conclude neither that Corruption has decreased nor that it has actually increased. Rather, the CPI is an important Index which captures corruption perception around the world on any given year, and can rank countries globally with the index now covering 178 countries. Indeed please also refer to our two other tools which I mentioned above, which also capture other elements of corruption in any given country. As corruption is in its very nature difficult to measure, we need a set of tools in order to make affirmative judgements, particularly changes over time. Big DISCLAIMER from TI...In other words TI acknowledges their data and methodology is not perfect and so cannot make an assessment on corruption in India one way or the other. What good is the study?? Ohthe study will assist MNC's looking to invest in India by giving them a favourable spin (oops, I said it again) on the issue. This assessment is subjective and emotional spin-doctoring guided by a reader's or moderator's own biases, not backed by data from an independent watchdog such as Transparency International. For example, Goanet is a poor source of factual information. Most of what gets posted on it is crap. Reading it is sure to mislead people. RESPONSE: Does not make-up for your spin-doctoring, mind you, it is also a lame attempt at censoring me and my opinion. Nevertheless, it was a relief to read the above from you.in one paragraph you were able to demonstrate your human weaknesses and be like the rest of us. You probably regret writing the above just as much as I regret causing you to ululate! - B PS. I'm certain you know the actual status of corruption in Goa/India but you cannot find a way to say to Rajendra that he was right and you were wrong. You are just like any other self-righteous individual who goes on debating a thread almost infinitely..so keep goinggo ahead and defend the indefensible!! [1] http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2011-February/205409.html
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Bosco D bos...@canada.com wrote: RESPONSE: Where does it leave the supposed 14 scientific surveys of thousands of people in India?? Are those surveys anymore scientific than the 6 friends that Rajendra spoke to on Dec 27, 2010 [1]?? Perhaps I am missing something here. The surveys conducted by Transparency International are more scientific and better at assessing the level of corruption at any given time than talking to 6 friends. RESPONSE: I think all we can say in the context of this thread is that some spin doctoring is ongoing perhaps in the defense of all things scientific. The facts that I referred to can be independently verified at the following Transparency International website: http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results Besides reading news reports on a daily basis, communicating with family and friends in Goa/India and gleaning information from various online forums and websites like Goanet it is easier to agree with Rajendra that corruption in India has increased in the last 10 years. This assessment is subjective and emotional spin-doctoring guided by a reader's or moderator's own biases, not backed by data from an independent watchdog such as Transparency International. For example, Goanet is a poor source of factual information. Most of what gets posted on it is crap. Reading it is sure to mislead people. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Agreed that six people is too small a base... but TI being better is little consolation! *http://bit.ly/e777xW* * * ... it is unclear what exactly the CPI [Corruption Perception Index] is measuring, when sources which measure such different aspects of corruption are averaged together. It is a bit like adding, or in the CPI's case averaging, apples and oranges. To give a rough example, suppose that in city A there were 5 murders and 95 incidents of shoplifting, whereas in city B, there were 95 murders and 5 incidents of shoplifting. The size of the population is the same in both cities. Then, the total crime rate is the same in the two cities. But no one would venture to say that they are equally safe cities to live in. This is an exaggerated example of what happens in the CPI, where grand embezzlement and petty corruption are treated as the same entity ... According to PERC's ratings, Japan became almost 2q.4 times as corrupt (an increase of 138%) between 1996 and 1997. China, India and Malaysia also jump up almost two points each between 1998 and 1999. The reason why one might doubt the reliability of these numbers is that corruption is deep-rooted in a country, the result of a combination of factors, including weak institutions (such as the judiciary and property rights), over-regulation, entrenched bureaucray, and an under-developed civil society and media. These factors are unlikely to change so dramatically in a one-year period. That the scores display such unrealistic and dramatic variations is particularly troublesome for the [Corruption Perception Index] Frederick Noronha :: +91-9822122436 :: +91-832-2409490 On 21 February 2011 18:34, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: The surveys conducted by Transparency International are more scientific and better at assessing the level of corruption at any given time than talking to 6 friends.
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
On Mon Dec 27, 2010, Santosh stated: Dear Rajendra, Are you suggesting that your own perception and that of six of your friends captures the corruption trend better than an index derived from 14 scientific surveys of thousands of people in India? Let me put it this way. Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index has got to be at least as good as the collective opinions of a few hundred readers posted on a Times of India website. On Feb 13, 2011, Santosh stated: I would like to thank Rajendra for seeking clarifications on this from Transparency International. The above statement in this regard was especially helpful. It indicates that the scoring employed is on a relative scale or a curve i.e. India's reported score is relative to the scores of other countries in each year. What this means is we can only look at India's percentile rank in relation to other countries each year. We cannot draw any conclusions regarding absolute increase or decrease in corruption from the index, even if we were able to perform a time series analysis. RESPONSE: Where does it leave the supposed 14 scientific surveys of thousands of people in India?? Are those surveys anymore scientific than the 6 friends that Rajendra spoke to on Dec 27, 2010 [1]?? Perhaps I am missing something here. So all we can say is in the year 2000 India was at the 33rd percentile among the countries examined, i.e. 77% of the countries were better than India, as far as corruption is concerned. In the year 2010, on the other hand, India was at the 51st percentile, i.e. 49% of the countries were better than India. The one caveat to this analysis is that only 90 countries were examined in 2000, whereas 178 countries were examined in 2010. RESPONSE: I think all we can say in the context of this thread is that some spin doctoring is ongoing perhaps in the defense of all things scientific. Besides reading news reports on a daily basis, communicating with family and friends in Goa/India and gleaning information from various online forums and websites like Goanet it is easier to agree with Rajendra that corruption in India has increased in the last 10 years. Stating the obvious need not make one feel any less pride in being an Indian. On the flipside there are the usual India-bashers who do not even have to stand-up to be counted. - B [1] http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-December/203522.html
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Read the reply I got from Transparency International about India's CPI: Dear Rajendra, Thank you for your interest in Transparency International’s (TI) work and specifically your enquiry regarding India ’s scores on the Corruptions Perceptions Index. Your email was passed on to me, as I am responsible for this indicator, together with TI’s two other main tools, namely the Bribe Payers Index, and the Global Corruption Barometer. I will try to answer each of your questions in turn: 1. CPI for India in the year 2000 was 2.8, which has gone up to 3.3 in the year 2010. Does this mean that corruption has reduced in India over the decade? Ans: The CPI captures corruption perceptions, rather than incidence of corruption. Specifically it captures (largely business executives and country experts) opinions on the proliferation of corruption in a country’s public sector. Thus the change in CPI cannot conclusively state that actual corruption in India has fallen over this period. 2. Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. Can it also mean that despite CPI going up from 2.8 to 3.3, the corruption has actually increased? Ans: The CPI score is compiled based on the availability of a range of surveys for each country. As such, the source data for India for 2000 is different from that of 2010. Even if the sources were identical for India for these two years, the percentile matching approach we employ to standardise scores means that we take India’s ranking from each survey, such that it is relative to the other countries ranked and any change in the countries covered by each survey can alter the standardised score attributed to India. Finally, changes have been made to the methodology of the CPI itself over the 15 years since its establishment. These methodological reasons limit the application of the CPI as time series data. From the change in CPI scores over the 10 year period, we can conclude neither that Corruption has decreased nor that it has actually increased. Rather, the CPI is an important Index which captures corruption perception around the world on any given year, and can rank countries globally with the index now covering 178 countries. Indeed please also refer to our two other tools which I mentioned above, which also capture other elements of corruption in any given country. As corruption is in its very nature difficult to measure, we need a set of tools in order to make affirmative judgements, particularly changes over time. I hope this answers your questions. Kind regards, Deborah Hardoon
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- On Sun, 2/13/11, rajendra kakodkar rskakod...@yahoo.co.in wrote: 2. Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. Can it also mean that despite CPI going up from 2.8 to 3.3, the corruption has actually increased? Ans: The CPI score is compiled based on the availability of a range of surveys for each country. As such, the source data for India for 2000 is different from that of 2010. Even if the sources were identical for India for these two years, the percentile matching approach we employ to standardise scores means that we take India’s ranking from each survey, such that it is relative to the other countries ranked and any change in the countries covered by each survey can alter the standardised score attributed to India. Finally, changes have been made to the methodology of the CPI itself over the 15 years since its establishment. These methodological reasons limit the application of the CPI as time series data. From the change in CPI scores over the 10 year period, we can conclude neither that Corruption has decreased nor that it has actually increased. I would like to thank Rajendra for seeking clarifications on this from Transparency International. The above statement in this regard was especially helpful. It indicates that the scoring employed is on a relative scale or a curve i.e. India's reported score is relative to the scores of other countries in each year. What this means is we can only look at India's percentile rank in relation to other countries each year. We cannot draw any conclusions regarding absolute increase or decrease in corruption from the index, even if we were able to perform a time series analysis. So all we can say is in the year 2000 India was at the 33rd percentile among the countries examined, i.e. 77% of the countries were better than India, as far as corruption is concerned. In the year 2010, on the other hand, India was at the 51st percentile, i.e. 49% of the countries were better than India. The one caveat to this analysis is that only 90 countries were examined in 2000, whereas 178 countries were examined in 2010. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT For copies of this book see footer of this message --- To all Goanetters: Happy Corruption Free New Year 2011! To Santosh Helekar: a special Happy Corruption Free New Year 2006! Rajendra In response to Santosh post of 28th Dec: But let us stick to the criterion used by TI for a meaningful perceived change from the previous year of 0.3, and apply it to India. You will notice that nearly all of the jump in the index to 3.3 occurred from 2005 to 2006. In 2005 the CPI for India was 2.9. In 2006 it was 3.3. That is an increase of 0.4 from the previous year. So you would have to admit that the good news that I mentioned occurred in 2006. --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org ---
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT For copies of this book see footer of this message --- --- On Sat, 1/1/11, rajendra kakodkar rskakod...@yahoo.co.in wrote: To all Goanetters: Happy Corruption Free New Year 2011! To Santosh Helekar: a special Happy Corruption Free New Year 2006! I am indeed hoping that 2011 would be like 2006 with another 0.4 point jump in the Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for India. Wishing that 2011 would be like 1946, 1960, 1509, 1817 or 549 is a sign of stupidity. Cheers, Santosh --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org ---
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
---
http://www.GOANET.org
---
NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services'
With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd)
former Chief of Indian Army Staff
and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT
Copies now available at:
GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038),
Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714),
Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David Co (2730326), Vardaan
(9527463684)
SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim
(2417288)
MUMBAI: David Co (22019010)
PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327)
BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800)
DELHI: Ritana (24617278)
ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com,
http://goa1556.goa-india.org
---
-Original Message-
From: Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão
Remember: “Wise men talk because they have something
to say; fools talk because they have to say something!”
RESPONSE:
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be
happy, practice compassion. - Dalai Lama via Twitter on Dec 27, 2010
- B
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org --- On Tue Dec 28 21:43:35 PST 2010 Bosco D bospam at canada.com wrote : -Original Message- From: Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis FalcãoRemember: “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something!” RESPONSE: If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. - Dalai Lama via Twitter on Dec 27, 2010 - B RESPONSE : Bosco’s comment here is irrelevant to the topic of discussion. Does he mean to say to be compassionate and pay a bribe? may be demander’s salary is low? Does he mean that we should make others happy even though demands are made illegally and fraudulently. A typical example. Nobody said that Bosco had to say something. That too totally out of context. Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Here are answers to Ferdinando's questions. 1. Moral studies for most children in the world are conducted by their parents. Most schools in India or anywhere else do not have moral studies as a subject. Those convent schools in India that were teaching moral science as a subject before 1961 were still teaching it after 1961. They are most likely still teaching it. 2. Schools have not stopped correcting uncouth behavior. They have only stopped corporal punishment, perhaps in the late 70s or 80s all over the developed world. The year 1961 has no relevance to this progressive change. 3. Primary school teachers have better training today than they had in the past. Everybody has better knowledge of hygiene today then he/she had in the past. We also have better understanding today than in the past of proper social conduct in terms of race relations, discriminatory attitudes and prejudices, respect for fellow human beings, such as fisher folk, Indians from other states, etc. 4. It is not the culture of India to spit, snort, defecate, etc., in public. Only the prejudiced are quick to attribute to culture what is so obviously the result of overpopulation, overcrowding, overwhelming of limited infrastructure and resources, and poor enforcement of laws. The year 1961 has no particular relevance to these observations. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 12/27/10, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote: RESPONSE : May I ask Santosh if he has answers to my questions. 1- Since when have moral studies been discontinued in Schools? Or if some have, are they imbibing education on morals? Teaching children on what is morally right and wrong? 2- Since when have Schools stopped correcting uncouth behavior like spitting in public, blowing nose in public, etc. etc.? 3- Since when do we have primary teachers who have no basic hygiene knowledge, no sound understanding of social conduct or etiquettes ? 4- Since when do we have more teachers who themselves set bad examples to students? And are there just for salary rather than a vocation? Santosh will definitely not have a first hand information on schools nor seen a school pre 1961, as he must have been around 3 years old at that time. It may be a culture of India to spit, snort, defecate, etc. in public, but it is definitely not Goan Culture. Even now, in India laws are enacted to stop this uncivilised behaviour. Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Dear Santosh, You seem to have not read my previous post properly or completely. Please read it again. May be I was not adequately clear. For your ease, I am reframing the part for more clarity: Transparency International (TI) in the same CPI report says: Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. This means TI itself says that you cannot interpret that 3.3 of today as improvement over 2.8 of 2000. Further, you are right that Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index has got to be at least as good as the collective opinions of a few hundred readers posted on a Times of India website. I would say much better because the opinion makers (13 sources from 10 institutions) that TI used have high opinion weights. Globally, CPI was derived from 13 scientific surveys (1070 country-survey combinations) with an average of around 80 experts and businessmen voted per survey. India CPI was derived from 10 scientific surveys of around 800 experts and businessmen. TI has merely said that India CPI for 2010 is 3.3 and for 2000 is 2.8. It is an index to be read in absolute terms. It can also be read in relative terms to compare two countries in the same year. But it cannot be used to compare a country over a period of time unless there is a change of atleast 0.3 points year-on-year. TI in the report only qualified the countries with 0.3 point rise in a year as improvement (decrease in corruption). It also elaborately says why a lesser rise cannot be called improvement. And therefore, India's 0.5 point change over 10 years does not allow us to conclude what you posted originally: The good news is that corruption in India is on the decline over the last 10 years. Rajendra In response to Santosh querry: Are you suggesting that your own perception and that of six of your friends captures the corruption trend better than an index derived from 14 scientific surveys of thousands of people in India? Let me put it this way. Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index has got to be at least as good as the collective opinions of a few hundred readers posted on a Times of India website. Rajendra Previous post: My perception was that the corruption has increased. When I read your post I was stunned. I therefore did a quick opinion check by phoning 6 friends. All concurred with my perception. Then I checked the site of Transparency International. Here I found that we cannot interpret that 3.3 of today is better than 2.8 of 2000. The Transparency International has qualified the report, the relevent clause is reproduced: Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. Santosh Helekar's original post: The good news is that corruption in India is on the decline over the last 10 years. In the year 2000 Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for India was worse than it is today (2.8 compared to 3.3 today; higher the index the better it is).
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
NEW BOOK: Patriotism in Action: Goans in India's Defence Services. With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT. See details below of where the book is available. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dear Rajendra, Perhaps, you did not understand my point. My point is that Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) is a better indicator of level of corruption in a country, including any perceived trend, than your own perception and that of six of your friends. Now regarding the caveat you quoted, its meaning is ambiguous. Here it is again: Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. .Transparency International (TI) It does not necessarily mean what you claim it to mean below: This means TI itself says that you cannot interpret that 3.3 of today as improvement over 2.8 of 2000. .Rajendra Kakodkar Please note the term for all countries in TI's quote above. My understanding from reading the methodology is that the reason TI uses this term is three-fold: 1. Not all countries are included each year in calculating the index. 2. For some countries the sources used to calculate the index over a two year period each year are not the same. 3. TI may have made a change in methodology to improve the index for some countries. So one cannot rule out the possibility that for those countries that have been included every year, whose CPI is based on the same sources each year, and for whom no change in methodology has been made, a trend analysis can be meaningful. This becomes apparent from the following quote from TI: QUOTE Year-to-year changes in a country/territory’s score can result from a change in the perceptions of a country’s performance, a change in the ranking provided by original sources or changes in the methodology resulting from TI’s efforts to improve the index. If a country is featured in one or more specific data sources for both of the last two CPIs (2009 CPI and 2010 CPI), those sources can be used to identify whether there has been a change in perceived levels of corruption in that particular country compared to the previous year. UNQUOTE .Transparency International But let us stick to the criterion used by TI for a meaningful perceived change from the previous year of 0.3, and apply it to India. You will notice that nearly all of the jump in the index to 3.3 occurred from 2005 to 2006. In 2005 the CPI for India was 2.9. In 2006 it was 3.3. That is an increase of 0.4 from the previous year. So you would have to admit that the good news that I mentioned occurred in 2006. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 12/27/10, rajendra kakodkar rskakod...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Dear Santosh, You seem to have not read my previous post properly or completely. Please read it again. May be I was not adequately clear. For your ease, I am reframing the part for more clarity: Transparency International (TI) in the same CPI report says: Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. This means TI itself says that you cannot interpret that 3.3 of today as improvement over 2.8 of 2000. Further, you are right that Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index has got to be at least as good as the collective opinions of a few hundred readers posted on a Times of India website. I would say much better because the opinion makers (13 sources from 10 institutions) that TI used have high opinion weights. Globally, CPI was derived from 13 scientific surveys (1070 country-survey combinations) with an average of around 80 experts and businessmen voted per survey. India CPI was derived from 10 scientific surveys of around 800 experts and businessmen. TI has merely said that India CPI for 2010 is 3.3 and for 2000 is 2.8. It is an index to be read in absolute terms. It can also be read in relative terms to compare two countries in the same year. But it cannot be used to compare a country over a period of time unless there is a change of atleast 0.3 points year-on-year. TI in the report only qualified the countries with 0.3 point rise in a year as improvement (decrease in corruption). It also elaborately says why a lesser rise cannot be called improvement. And therefore, India's 0.5 point change over 10 years does not allow us to conclude what you posted originally: The good news is that corruption in India is on the decline over the last 10 years. Rajendra * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Copies of *Patriotism in Action* now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038),
[Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org --- Santosh Helekar wrote : 1. Moral studies for most children in the world are conducted by their parents. Most schools in India or anywhere else do not have moral studies as a subject…… RESPONSE : Brilliant Santosh, very brilliant. This is exactly the perception that I wanted to bring forth. A perception that Schools and Colleges have no role in Character building of students; by those who started schooling post 1961. Another post 1961, literate, postgraduate, medical doctor recently was even on the Municipal election podium campaigning for an illiterate. If literate, postgraduates have such a perception, what can one expect from school dropouts who are Ministers? And governing our Education system? Santosh Helekar wrote : 2-Schools have not stopped correcting uncouth behavior. They have only stopped corporal punishment…3- Primary school teachers have better training today than they had in the past. Everybody has better knowledge of hygiene today then he/she had in the past…. RESPONSE : A visit to any Government school will tell you otherwise. Digging nose or spitting or licking finger to turn pages, etc.; don’t you as a medical graduate classify these as unhygienic? Why, I even see qualified medical doctors spitting on roads. And what about food poisoning by the mid-day meals at these govt. schools? I remember refreshments during pre 1961 used to be banana packed biscuits; most hygienic. Santosh Helekar wrote : 4. It is not the culture of India to spit, snort, defecate, etc., in public. Only the prejudiced are quick to attribute to culture what is so obviously the result of overpopulation, overcrowding,… RESPONSE : This statement is totally false. Go to Singapore or Europe; equally crowded cities, as there is no way you can see Goa of pre 1961. Every wall and corner in cities in India are painted red. Post 1961, Goa too. Spitting is India’s culture, you cannot deny that. Some Maharajas and ‘Takurs’ had slaves who used to carry spittoons around in their palaces. Some silver spittoon can be seen at some museums. Remember: “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something!” Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org --- In response to this from [1] Santosh Helekar : It is not the culture of India to spit, snort, defecate, etc., in public. Only the prejudiced are quick to attribute to culture what is so obviously the result of overpopulation, overcrowding,.. [2] Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote: This statement is totally false. Go to Singapore or Europe; equally crowded cities, as there is no way you can see Goa of pre 1961. Every wall and corner in cities in India are painted red. Post 1961, Goa too. Spitting is India’s culture, you cannot deny that. Some Maharajas and ‘Takurs’ had slaves who used to carry spittoons around in their palaces. Some silver spittoon can be seen at some museums. jc's comment: I am not an expert on culture, but I do happen to recognise agriculture when I see it. I am also not prepared to consider spitting on walls etc as being Indian culture. Falcao's 'silver spittoon' example illustrates that. It shows that those who lived in palaces (i.e. the wealthy) took care NOT to spit on the walls. They spat into spittoons instead. There is a principle which I have quoted before, and that is 'Res ipsa loquitor' i.e. The thing speaks for itself. The fact is that a vast number of folks from the Indian sub-continent are addicted to 'paan'. Spitting is a natural consequence of chewing paan. And if you are not wealthy enough to own slaves to follow you around with spittoons, you do the next best thing i.e. spit on the walls. Post 1961, there was/and continues to be an influx into Goa of individuals who are addicted to paan but who have no slaves to follow them around with spittoons - hence the mosaic on the walls of Goan buildings. A trip to Mumbai (different from what must have been a much cleaner Bombay) will demonstrate how Mumbaikars dispose off their refuse. They just dump it outside their window. If you happen to pass by at the same time.tough. It is possible that Desis do not make their own yards filthy; they just dump the stuff into somebody else's. I was visiting a family in Dabolim a few years ago. The complaint was that even well-to-do folks (desis) would jump into their cars, carry their garbage for dumping at the corner lot (belonging to someone else). They would not agree to participate in a paid garbage-collection plan. It bears traveling to certain cities of the world where Desis have congregated i.e. Petticoat Lane in London (UK) and Edison in New Jersey (US). Houston (Texas) is an exception. If one compares Goa 2010 to 1965 (which is 4 years after the Portuguese were expelled)., one surely will come to the following conclusion: With all the roads, schools, colleges, tourism money and electricity, vast parts of Goa have become veritable dumps. It is possible that the noses of some folks have become immune to the foul odour OR that they suffer from chronic rhinitis .in addition to day-time blindness. These folks have deficiency in their senses of smell and sight. Let us not blame them cynically or otherwise. jc
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- NEW BOOK: 'PATRIOTISM IN ACTION: Goans in Indias Defence Services' With Foreword by Gen SF Rodrigues, PVSM, VSM, ADC (retd) former Chief of Indian Army Staff and Governor, Punjab Administrator, Chandigarh UT Copies now available at: GOA: Literati (2277740), Other India (2263306), Broadway (6647038), Mandovi (2427904), Noel DSilva Associates (9823120454 / 9096781714), Confidant / Golden Heart Emp (2732450), David Co (2730326), Vardaan (9527463684) SERV / RETD Def Offrs in Goa: O/o Sainik Co-op Hse Bldg Sty, Def Col, Porvorim (2417288) MUMBAI: David Co (22019010) PUNE: Manneys (26131683), Popular (25678327) BENGALURU: Narayan (22865800) DELHI: Ritana (24617278) ONLINE (worldwide delivery): http://www.ritanabooks.com, http://goa1556.goa-india.org --- What I wrote in my last post in this thread refuted the prejudiced claim that the year 1961 is of great significance as far as public morality in Goa is concerned. A wise man should first and foremost try to remove all prejudice from his thinking and perception. I am fully aware that Goanet is not a forum populated by wise men, and therefore it is hard to remove the prejudiced fixation on 1961, even in the face overwhelming evidence. For example, the fact that most schools anywhere in the world do not have, and have never had, moral studies as a subject before and after 1961 should indicate to any reasonably wise person that 1961 has no relevance to this issue. The very fact that spittoons were used in India should indicate to any reasonably wise person that spitting on the wall was regarded as improper in India. A reasonably wise person also knows that it is unwise to draw sweeping generalizations from individual observations, perceptions and biases. For instance, if I see a Goan professor who was trained before 1961, accepting bribes to grant passing marks to his students, then I should not conclude that it is part of Portuguese culture to engage in this type of corruption and immorality. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 12/28/10, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote: RESPONSE : Brilliant Santosh, very brilliant. This is exactly the perception that I wanted to bring forth. A perception that Schools and Colleges have no role in Character building of students; by those who started schooling post 1961. Another post 1961, literate, postgraduate, medical doctor recently was even on the Municipal election podium campaigning for an illiterate. If literate, postgraduates have such a perception, what can one expect from school dropouts who are Ministers? And governing our Education system? Santosh Helekar wrote : 2-Schools have not stopped correcting uncouth behavior. They have only stopped corporal punishment…3- Primary school teachers have better training today than they had in the past. Everybody has better knowledge of hygiene today then he/she had in the past…. RESPONSE : A visit to any Government school will tell you otherwise. Digging nose or spitting or licking finger to turn pages, etc.; don’t you as a medical graduate classify these as unhygienic? Why, I even see qualified medical doctors spitting on roads. And what about food poisoning by the mid-day meals at these govt. schools? I remember refreshments during pre 1961 used to be banana packed biscuits; most hygienic. Santosh Helekar wrote : 4. It is not the culture of India to spit, snort, defecate, etc., in public. Only the prejudiced are quick to attribute to culture what is so obviously the result of overpopulation, overcrowding,… RESPONSE : This statement is totally false. Go to Singapore or Europe; equally crowded cities, as there is no way you can see Goa of pre 1961. Every wall and corner in cities in India are painted red. Post 1961, Goa too. Spitting is India’s culture, you cannot deny that. Some Maharajas and ‘Takurs’ had slaves who used to carry spittoons around in their palaces. Some silver spittoon can be seen at some museums. Remember: “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something!” Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Goanetters annual year-end meet is on Dec 27, 2010 (Monday) from 4-6 pm at Institute Piedade (near Hotel Mandovi, opp Bread More) in Panjim. Do come along. RSVP via SMS 9822122436, f...@goa-india.org or 2409490 (after 2 pm). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dear Santosh, My perception was that the corruption has increased. When I read your post I was stunned. I therefore did a quick opinion check by phoning 6 friends. All concurred with my perception. Then I checked the site of Transparency International. Here I found that we cannot interpret that 3.3 of today is better than 2.8 of 2000. The Transparency International has qualified the report, the relevent clause is reproduced: Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. Rajendra In response to Santosh Helekar's post: The good news is that corruption in India is on the decline over the last 10 years. In the year 2000 Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for India was worse than it is today (2.8 compared to 3.3 today; higher the index the better it is).
[Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Goanetters annual year-end meet is on Dec 27, 2010 (Monday) from 4-6 pm at Institute Piedade (near Hotel Mandovi, opp Bread More) in Panjim. Do come along. RSVP via SMS 9822122436, f...@goa-india.org or 2409490 (after 2 pm). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Santosh Helekar wrote : The rest of India is not responsible for the corruption we see in Goa. The year 1961 has no relevance to the corruption we see today. RESPONSE : May I ask Santosh if he has answers to my questions. 1- Since when have moral studies been discontinued in Schools? Or if some have, are they imbibing education on morals? Teaching children on what is morally right and wrong? 2- Since when have Schools stopped correcting uncouth behavior like spitting in public, blowing nose in public, etc. etc.? 3- Since when do we have primary teachers who have no basic hygiene knowledge, no sound understanding of social conduct or etiquettes ? 4- Since when do we have more teachers who themselves set bad examples to students? And are there just for salary rather than a vocation? Santosh will definitely not have a first hand information on schools nor seen a school pre 1961, as he must have been around 3 years old at that time. It may be a culture of India to spit, snort, defecate, etc. in public, but it is definitely not Goan Culture. Even now, in India laws are enacted to stop this uncivilised behaviour. Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Dear Rajendra, Are you suggesting that your own perception and that of six of your friends captures the corruption trend better than an index derived from 14 scientific surveys of thousands of people in India? Let me put it this way. Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index has got to be at least as good as the collective opinions of a few hundred readers posted on a Times of India website. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 12/27/10, rajendra kakodkar rskakod...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Dear Santosh, My perception was that the corruption has increased. When I read your post I was stunned. I therefore did a quick opinion check by phoning 6 friends. All concurred with my perception. Then I checked the site of Transparency International. Here I found that we cannot interpret that 3.3 of today is better than 2.8 of 2000. The Transparency International has qualified the report, the relevent clause is reproduced: Given its methodology, CPI is not a tool that is useful for trend analysis or for monitoring the changes in the perceived levels of corruption over time for all countries. Rajendra In response to Santosh Helekar's post: The good news is that corruption in India is on the decline over the last 10 years. In the year 2000 Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for India was worse than it is today (2.8 compared to 3.3 today; higher the index the better it is).
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão: On second thought, We may be able to stop corruption. But we will need the help of Nandakumar to counteract Portuguese influence which brought corruption to Goa and India. COMMENT: Dr. Falcao is being quite unfair for the following reasons: 1: Nandkumar has already purified the Arabian Sea. Unfortunately, he later realised that sea-water (now purified) from the Arabian Sea enters the Rivers Mandovi and Zuari in only limited quantities. So now, he needs to find a Vhoddem which will take him upstream to the sources of the rivers. The entire lengths of the rivers + those of their tributaries need to be purified. So, please send me donations. I will hold them and spend them on Nandkumar's behalf. An easier option would be to borrow the services of the Casino boats and the NT owners barges (which are definitely not polluters) to do the needful. 2: Once Goa is rid of the Portuguese influences, I suppose, Sati can be reintroduced along with the Devadasi system. The Caste System, of course, was invented by the Portuguese. After all, isn't casta a Portuguese word? jc ps: Would anybody have any idea WHY Lata Mangeshkar had not identified herself with Goa, until very recently? Clue: Think Mangeshi temple.
[Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Goanetters annual year-end meet is on Dec 27, 2010 (Monday) from 4-6 pm at Institute Piedade (near Hotel Mandovi, opp Bread More) in Panjim. Do come along. RSVP via SMS 9822122436, f...@goa-india.org or 2409490 (after 2 pm). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To The Editor Herald Publications Panjim Goa 26th December 2010 Dear Sir, With refrerence to the wonderful article titled: ' will we as voters stop being corrupt' ( Herald 26th Dec.) Mr. Sujay Gupta has really writtern a wonderful and thought provoking account on tthe main reasons why we goan electorate get what we deserve . That is to say corruption from all levels be it MPs , MLAs and even ordinary panchayat members are involved in corruption. Recently a friend of mine settled abroad had to construct a compound wall which he did in record time of three weeks with all the necessary licenses when I enquired he replied that he just gave the 'buggers' some baksheesh ! It is natural that when at election time the candidates spend and distribute so much money they naturally have to recover it and that they do fourfold. Now it is an accepted fact in Goa that votes are given to the highest bidder nowonder the corruption has reached such disgracing levels . Its no use blaming the politicians when we ourselves are corrupt , get our jobs done by paying bribes and vote and elect elements who are not even fit to run the affairs of their homes leave alone those of the state . It is high time people are warned against receiving money at time of elections and told that the money they receive is cursed . It is high time people give such unscrupulous panchas , MLAs and MPs who contribute nothing towards the betterment of the state the boot. *Both politicians and diapers need to be changed often and for the same reason !!f **Col.Cyril P.D'Souza ( Retd.) * KHH phase 11 Gauravaddo - Calangute Goa Pin : 403516 Tel :08322282881
[Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Goanetters annual year-end meet is on Dec 27, 2010 (Monday) from 4-6 pm at Institute Piedade (near Hotel Mandovi, opp Bread More) in Panjim. Do come along. RSVP via SMS 9822122436, f...@goa-india.org or 2409490 (after 2 pm). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On Sun Dec 26 06:42:56 PST 2010 cyril D'Souza cyril43desouza at gmail.com wrote : With reference to the wonderful article titled: ' will we as voters stop being corrupt' ( Herald 26th Dec.) Mr. Sujay Gupta has really written a wonderful and thought provoking account on the main reasons why we Goan electorate get what we deserve…….. COMMENT : Corruption cannot be stopped. Be it the givers or the takers. I may sound pessimistic, but the facts are very clear. So too the same corrupt politicians will win, and they know it; maybe by a lesser margin, that is why they invest in the slums of migrants. Take a look at the generation we have created post 1961. Have they been imbibed in the education of discipline, morals, mannerism, obedience, etiquettes, civility, etc.? How do you expect such a generation to be civilised, disciplined, courteous, upright with integrity? If basically the generation post 1961 is so short sighted and adapted to this short term benefits, can the older generation do anything? Or for that matter the generation that have been outside India and have seen facts of life? One may try as much as possible to educate these people in this bracket, it will be ‘water on duck’s back’. You cannot change a person’s habits and customs once used to it for decades. You cannot mould clay once it is set. That is why we need to imbibe this education right from school education, so that they can even correct the elders in their homes and villages. But will that take place when we have uneducated Ministers including one with Education portfolio? There is a Chinese saying : “If you want 1 year of prosperity, grow grain. If you want 10 years of prosperity, grow trees. If you want 100 years of prosperity, grow people.” Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Goanetters annual year-end meet is on Dec 27, 2010 (Monday) from 4-6 pm at Institute Piedade (near Hotel Mandovi, opp Bread More) in Panjim. Do come along. RSVP via SMS 9822122436, f...@goa-india.org or 2409490 (after 2 pm). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Cyril D'Souza makes some worthy points. Impossible points, now that Goa has reached a point of no return, but worthy ones nonetheless. I do, however, have a 'point of order' with regards to one particular sentence in Cyril's post i.e. Its no use blaming the politicians WHEN WE OURSELVES are CORRUPT Would it not, I ask, be more appropriate to restate that sentence as follows: Its no use blaming the politicians WHEN WE OURSELVES have become CORRUPT? When I read about the corruption that has infected all segments of the Indian fabric, including the Indian armed forces and even cricket, I submit that ALL that has happened to the Goan populace is that they have joined mainstream India. I sincerely hope someone disagree with my assessment, and does so by advising that Goa was always corrupt and that India is not as corrupt as the press makes it out to be. Then, I will provide personal anecdotal evidence (for what it is worth) from Benaulim and Dabolim. No, none of it involves Goans who have accepted or succumbed to the 'either bribe or else' dictum. Sincerely jc cyril D'Souza cyril43deso...@gmail.com wrote: To The Editor, Herald Publications Panjim, Goa 26th December 2010 Dear Sir, With refrerence to the wonderful article titled: ' will we as voters stop being corrupt' ( Herald 26th Dec.) Mr. Sujay Gupta has really writtern a wonderful and thought provoking account on tthe main reasons why we goan electorate get what we deserve . That is to say corruption from all levels be it MPs , MLAs and even ordinary panchayat members are involved in corruption. Recently a friend of mine settled abroad had to construct a compound wall which he did in record time of three weeks with all the necessary licenses when I enquired he replied that he just gave the 'buggers' some baksheesh ! It is natural that when at election time the candidates spend and distribute so much money they naturally have to recover it and that they do fourfold. Now it is an accepted fact in Goa that votes are given to the highest bidder nowonder the corruption has reached such disgracing levels . Its no use blaming the politicians WHEN WE OURSELVES ARE CORRUPT , get our jobs done by paying bribes and vote and elect elements who are not even fit to run the affairs of their homes leave alone those of the state . It is high time people are warned against receiving money at time of elections and told that the money they receive is cursed . It is high time people give such unscrupulous panchas , MLAs and MPs who contribute nothing towards the betterment of the state the boot. *Both politicians and diapers need to be changed often and for the same reason !!f **Col.Cyril P.D'Souza ( Retd.)
Re: [Goanet] How to get rid of Corruption
Goanetters annual year-end meet is on Dec 27, 2010 (Monday) from 4-6 pm at Institute Piedade (near Hotel Mandovi, opp Bread More) in Panjim. Do come along. RSVP via SMS 9822122436, f...@goa-india.org or 2409490 (after 2 pm). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The rest of India is not responsible for the corruption we see in Goa. The year 1961 has no relevance to the corruption we see today. The good news is that corruption in India is on the decline over the last 10 years. In the year 2000 Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for India was worse than it is today (2.8 compared to 3.3 today; higher the index the better it is). Corruption is defined as the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. This definition should tell those who know history how to view it in the historical context in Goa and rest of India. Historically, a better identification with the national interest, commitment to secular democracy, reduced size of government, reduced bureaucracy, decentralization and prosperity of the nation, as a whole, has been found to lead to reduced corruption. Cheers, Santosh
