[Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan (Rose Fernandes)
Dear goanet readers, Over the last few weeks, I have to admit not reading Roland Francis's stray thoughts. His articles tend to tax my grey cells like Sudoku and these days I am all for a quiet life in front of the fire. Yes, fire in the United Kingdom we may once have had four seasons winter, spring, summer and autumn but we are now down to one winter gloom to match our economic doom. Trying to follow the FN and JC latest goanet fire thread proved tricky until finally I gave in and read Roland Francis's Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan. What he wrote in his last paragraph was fascinating: Quote: If there is one 'take-away' from all this, it is that someone up there has always taken care of the well-being of Goans. The Portuguese didn't do it and the Indians are certainly far from doing it as well. Unquote Roland Francis is not the only one who feels about the Portuguese this way. Recently, in conversation with a Goan Catholic priest, he implied much the same until I reminded him that if it had not been for the Portuguese he probably would not have been a Catholic nor a Catholic priest! If the Portuguese didn't do a good job taking care of our well-being, they certainly did a good job in converting a number of us to Catholicism. The argument put forward by most Catholic Goans I speak to is that we were forcibly converted by the Portuguese but if they feel this way. I see no evidence of them rushing to re-convert back to their original religion. In fact, evidence shows that those of Goan origin in Goa and around the world who are Catholics are probably among the most devout on planet earth which has undoubtedly led to someone up there looking after us. That's our first precious take-away from the Portuguese - Catholicism. Many Goans today probably feel the Portuguese did and are still looking after them, granting them their Portuguese Passport with which almost three entire villages from Goa have managed to uproot and move to Swindon, United Kingdom over the last few years and certainly another half a village from Goa has moved and is living near to me. How do I know this, for the first time in over 40 years I can hear Konkani being spoken on the 250 red bus route. Exciting, as I can understand them but soon I will be able to respond in our mother tongue, watch this space. Therefore for many the second most important take-away from the Portuguese is their Portuguese Passport. Roland Francis may have forgotten this, three entire villages from Goa have not moved near to him, yet. The third most important take-away from the Portuguese is our national dish of sorpotel. A friend of mine living in the USA for over 40 years said that there is one dish that she and her entire family must have (I repeat must have) on their Christmas table, that is sorpotel. This dish was eaten by Portuguese peasants who brought it over to us, we added spices and soro to it so the dish was renamed sorpotel to reflect this. But the origins of this dish remain Portuguese. Then comes Roland Francis's comment about Indians, let us all remind ourselves our Goan freedom fighters fought for us to be part of India, until of course we were. Now our war cry appears to be special status, special status, special status. With the number of goanet postings on toilets, you would have thought someone in Goa would have done something about it by now. Never mind the public toilets, even when I have been for weddings in posh venues, I am disgusted to find there is no soap in the toilets. Apparently this is because soap goes missing but what is there for these posh places to improvise and fit in soap dispensers on the walls and fill them with soap liquid like we have in the United Kingdom, is this so hard for them to do. What about their kitchen staff, do they have access to soap, is this not a real health hazard when handling food. Garbage lying around is much more of an environmental hazard than anything else. On my last visit to Goa in January, the situation appears to have gone much worse. Locals blame this on the foreign and local tourists or the Government! How about themselves, aren't they living there and shouldn't they take personal pride and responsibility for their own environment? Rationing of gas cylinders used for cooking, etc. Apparently new measures had to be introduced by the Government because the previous measures in place were not stringent enough to stop some locals cashing in. Finally, a gem of a story, at a high level meeting held in London once, don't know how it came about but one of our learned gentleman was talking about a solution to a particular problem, moving the Mandovi River! When we came home, puzzled, I asked Melvyn if there was more than one Mandovi River in Goa because the one I was thinking about would need a few billion perfect (not cracked) claypots to be filled up in order to be moved. Aren't we special enough
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
Re this from Eugene Correia, here are some points I invite us to Ponder upon: 1: Can an article of the constitution be 'tweaked' in favour of Goa in violation of another section of the very same Article 2: Assuming that tweaking is equivalent to 'Amending' the Constitution, WHO will do it and WHY will THEY do it? 3: One could argue about the precedent set by the Kashmir accession. OK, so where are the similarities with Goa for any precedent to be applicable? 4: Would anyone like to qualify the alleged Freedom Fighters as being Incompetent and Not very bright in the head? IF NOT, please advise why they did not negotiate like the Kashmiris did BEFORE accession / annexation? 5: What foolishness is this Maha-Con aka ' Special Status'? 6: IMHO this 'vehicular tax' is not only a Smoke Screen, it is an unworkable JOKE. 7: Some (many) years ago, a Chacha (not amcho Alfred Chachacha Tavares) blockaded Goa hoping that Goans would 'feel the pain' and throw the Purtuguez out. The Purtuguez FLEW in subsidized supplies to Goa (some of which ended up in Poona and Bombay courtesy . (;-). ) 8: Trust me, ain't NO ONE flying in any subsidized supplies into Goa now. 9: Goans be prepared for higher prices for basics while the Strip and Rip continues. 10: And then we will have the DREAMERS continuing to amend Art 19 by way of wishful thinking. jc On May 12, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Eugene Correia eugene.corr...@gmail.com wrote: It is primarily because of the constant pouring of migrants into Goa that the NGOs, one old but revived and the other new, are pushing for Special Status. With all 40 members of the Assembly having approved the government's proposal, there is a at least a chance of making the centre hear Goa's plea. However, what mechanism will be place to block the migrants from crossing over into Goa and resettling there would have to be seen. With less land available for housing in the cities and with builders moving into villages, Goans are already witnessing socio-economic problems. How much the government will tweak Article 19 to accommodate Goa, if at all the government wishes to grant Goa's plea, to make it near-impossible for outsiders to settle in Goa is to be seen. The Goa government's decision on entry tax for vehicles has created an adverse reaction from neighbouring states. Now comes the news that Pune bus operators will not come to Goa. Can be say safely that there would be no blacklash against Goans in neighbouring states if natives of both Karnataka and Maharashtra are prevented from settling in Goa? The union government would have to take a hard, closer look and the Goa government would also be doing itself good if it takes into consideration the risks following getting Special Status that would impinge impose restriction of movement of outsiders into Goa. There's no validity in basing Goa's case on the erosion of Goan identity because it's expected that with intergration into the Indian union, new migration and economic change, Goan identity would be running the risk of change. Outsiders who have assimiliated into Goan society, though retaining a few of their distinct traditions and characteristics, should not pose any problems and cannot be said to be agents in the perceived devolution of Goanness. Goenkarponn is what we are and what should remain now and in the future. Eugene
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan (Rose Fernandes)
My dear Rose, My apologies for not having renamed the thread as you now have. It would have separated the threads appropriately. When I tried in the past, my posts have been rejected by Hon. moderator ( often nameless ). So, I did not rename the thread (albeit partially), but used the opportunity to suggest to FN that he was being unfair and unreasonable in some of his actions. This, again, would not have been the first time FN has heard it from me nor would I have been the only person to say it to him. That having been noted, I do have a number of points ( in your post ) to comment upon / seek clarification about from you. I will try do that later this evening when I am done with my daily Mazdoori and bread.. Your renaming of the original post will help readers to sift my response to you from the other responses. Best of wishes for a great day. jc Pardon any Typos. This IPad does some curious auto- corrections On May 13, 2013, at 6:44 AM, Melvyn Fernandes mel...@orange.net wrote: Trying to follow the FN and JC latest goanet fire thread proved tricky until finally I gave in and read Roland Francis's Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan (Eugene Correia)
On 13 May 2013 06:48, Eugene Correia eugene.corr...@gmail.com wrote: 1: JC's questioning mind never stops, 2: though one cannot answer his rhetorical question with certainity. 3: In the context of Special Status, it would be pertinent to read Ramakant Khalap's piece He mentions Jammu and Kashmir's case under Article 370 amd the BJP has demanded that the Article be abolished and J@K be not given this special status. 4: The demand for statehood for Puducheery (former Pondicherry) is growing. 5: Like Goa, Puducherry too has unique culture, 6: However, I am not sure if migrants flood the territory as is the case of Goa. RESPONSE: Ai Saiba Bhogos, Eugene! Anyway, allow me please to say the following, and then just 'rest my case' wrt your post (excerpted supra) re: #1: Only a mindless 'potted plant' stops asking reasonable and relevant questions. re #2: Forget with certainty, rhetorical questions, ipso facto, do not expect answers. re #3: Let alone the fact that BJP and Khalap when in power at the centre did ZIP about Kashmir, please be advised of this point: A contract is a contract. One side cannot unilaterally violate the terms without facing penalties. So, Khalap et al can pass all the gas they want about it NOW. Just remember that they did nothing THEN precisely because they could NOT do anything. I'd further add that ONLY potted plants would read that Khalap article without asking questions. re # 45: Irrelevant to the point re the NON NEGOTIATIONS by the alleged Goa FFs prior to 1961. re # 6: You may wish to visit the place and talk to the residents. You will find the answer to your (surely) non-rhetorical question. jc a non- journalist
[Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
By Roland Francis Source: Goan Voice UK Daily Newsletter, 12 May 2013 at www.goanvoice.org.uk Until 1937 Aden was governed by the British as a part of India, but realizing its future strategic importance both from a point of view of trade as well as war, they decided to make it a separate colony and develop it. It would serve their interest not only to export oil that was starting to be drilled from Saudi Arabia but was also close enough to their oil interests in Abadan and other parts of Iran or Persia as it was then called. Although Basra was already being used, it wouldn't hurt for Aden to be the Arabian foil to its Persian counterpart. The Brits controlled them both. And there started the Goan Diaspora beginning of the Arabian Gold Rush that continues even today. Goans who were already well represented in Bombay's British Banks and trading companies that were either British or Parsee dominated, were encouraged to apply to positions that opened in Basra and Aden, the latter more so. Already by that time fairly pioneering, having settled in British and Portuguese Africa they must have said to themselves why not? The pay was a little better than Bombay and the British recruiters didn't look at educational qualifications too closely as they did for their hires in that city. They knew that the climate was desert and intemperate but when did weather ever deter Goan adventurers seeing how they in later years populated even frigid winter countries like Canada. So off to Arabia they went, with a large steel trunk on one of the BI steamers (little ships plying the Bombay-Gulf route) with a hope in their soul and a song in their hearts. In 7 days they docked and were met by one of their Goan contacts already employed in the major port and shipping agency of the place. Gray Mackenzie, a sister company of Mackinnon Mackenzie of Bombay, was the dominating freight forwarder, port agent, importer and exporter and was Goan dominated through the years of expansion that followed in Bahrain Dubai, Doha and Kuwait. After Aden, Bahrain opened up for Goans and became a more famous word in the Konkani lexicon. For a long while any Goan coming on furlough to Bombay or Goa mentioning that he was in Muscat, Qatar, Dubai or Abu Dhabi, would meet with an understanding nod followed by aanh Behrin. Bahrain was more salubrious, had fresh water that was transported weekly in dhows to the other states and the people were far more progressive and less religion focused, since their livelihood was based mostly on diving and trade of pearls, along with dates and fish, with Bombay and Karachi. Of course oil money and nascent Arab ambition changed the situation considerably by the end of the twentieth century. It was also to Bahrain that Goan employees were transferred after the troubles started in southern Yemen coming under communist influence. If there was a capital of the Gulf Goan Diaspora, it was Bahrain. Qatar was merely a conglomeration of fishing and desert villages and Kuwait was just starting to discover oil in critical mass. In fact the oilfields and surrounding camps of PDO (in Oman), Shell (in the Dukhan oilfield of Qatar) and Aramco (in Saudi Arabia) were the only signs of any life, not just Goan life in the Gulf. Life in Bahrain was centered in the small city of Manama where most of the companies and large department stores churches and clubs were located with satellite towns around it. It had the Bab-al-Bahrain (Bahrain Gate) where people congregated and if the Goan community were not in their clubs, you could see them taking their walks near the Bab. There was much closeness among Goans and I personally witnessed that. Almost every Goan in the other Gulf States knew a relative or friend in Bahrain and they would be invited to stay with them when they inevitably made a trip there. The small island-state was liberal with alcohol laws and every weekend you would see long lineups spilling onto the curbs, of people buying from a large choice of booze from Gray Mackenzie or other Bodegas. Of course most of the buyers were Saudis who would drive in for a weekend of spirit abuse, or other Gulf nationals who were deprived of liquor (and pork) in their own states by strict Islamic laws. Goans in Bahrain at one time had the best time of any other Goan Gulf community and one might include some non-Gulf countries as well. The pay was good, the life was good, and you could fly to Bombay or Goa in a couple of hours. Of course there is always more to a situation than just that, but I am telling it from the mindset that prevailed then. If there is one 'take-away' from all this, it is that someone up there has always taken care of the well-being of Goans. The Portuguese didn't do it and the Indians are certainly far from doing it as well.
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
On 12 May 2013 16:01, Eddie Fernandes eddie.fernan...@gmail.com wrote: If there is one 'take-away' from all this, it is that someone up there has always taken care of the well-being of Goans. The Portuguese didn't do it and the Indians are certainly far from doing it as well. Could it just be that self-interest, the constant search for migration opportunity (however much we deride the in-migrant), and fortuitous circumstances also played its role? FN FN +91-832-2409490 or +91-9822122436 f...@goa-india.org
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
Frederick Noronha wrote: Could it just be that self-interest, the constant search for migration opportunity (however much we deride the in-migrant), and fortuitous circumstances also played its role? COMMENT: 1: 'Man' is always in search for better opportunities. 2: That explains some but NOT all the migrations. 3: 'In-Migrations' are best tolerated (nay welcomed ) when they are structured and fill vacancies for jobs not filled or fillable by native populations. Some years ago, there was an urgent need of doctors in Jamaica. I am advised that the police band welcomed their arrival. Many years later, close to 200 doctors from a particular SE state of India arrived on successive flights. They turned up on visitor's visas and offered to work for pittance. 4: Uncontrolled arrivals in such comparatively humongous numbers destabilise local populations. That is how negative feed-back occurs. 5: I totally reject the implication which FN keeps on repeating. It is either that he is 'fixed' in his apparent looney-left wing thought process or he knows not the difference between onions and potatoes. 6: It is preposterous to stubbornly spout that Goans are inherently opposed to 'in-migration'. It is in-migration which helps build societies and the businesses which are engines to development. BUT, it has to be controlled,gradual and in needed areas. 7: What Goans (as any other civil society in the world) object to are: Coming and trying to dominate the locals, Squatting as and where and when they please, Filthing up the place etc. 8: It is not that FN has not read this before. It is just that he is NOT open to thought and discussions he does not like. It is his prerogative to remain biased and ignorant. But then, he goes into Salazar mode and blocks contrary view points from forums like Goanet which he controls 9: Does FN know of large numbers of Goans arriving anywhere dominating the locals, Squatting, Spitting and Defecating in publicand in general Filthifying the place? 10: IF not, why is he persistently spouting Nonsene? Anyway . Peace be unto all including those who, knowingly or otherwise, misrepresent. jc
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
The doc doth protest too much, methinks. FN -- FN Land +91-832-240-9490 Cell +91-982-212-2436 f...@goa-india.org f...@goa-india.org On 12 May 2013 18:57, Jose Colaco cola...@yahoo.com wrote: ** Frederick Noronha wrote: Could it just be that self-interest, the constant search for migration opportunity (however much we deride the in-migrant), and fortuitous circumstances also played its role? COMMENT: 1: 'Man' is always in search for better opportunities. 2: That explains some but NOT all the migrations. 3: 'In-Migrations' are best tolerated (nay welcomed ) when they are structured and fill vacancies for jobs not filled or fillable by native populations. Some years ago, there was an urgent need of doctors in Jamaica. I am advised that the police band welcomed their arrival. Many years later, close to 200 doctors from a particular SE state of India arrived on successive flights. They turned up on visitor's visas and offered to work for pittance. 4: Uncontrolled arrivals in such comparatively humongous numbers destabilise local populations. That is how negative feed-back occurs. 5: I totally reject the implication which FN keeps on repeating. It is either that he is 'fixed' in his apparent looney-left wing thought process or he knows not the difference between onions and potatoes. 6: It is preposterous to stubbornly spout that Goans are inherently opposed to 'in-migration'. It is in-migration which helps build societies and the businesses which are engines to development. BUT, it has to be controlled, gradual and in needed areas. 7: What Goans (as any other civil society in the world) object to are: Coming and trying to dominate the locals, Squatting as and where and when they please, Filthing up the place etc. 8: It is not that FN has not read this before. It is just that he is NOT open to thought and discussions he does not like. It is his prerogative to remain biased and ignorant. But then, he goes into Salazar mode and blocks contrary view points from forums like Goanet which he controls 9: Does FN know of large numbers of Goans arriving anywhere dominating the locals, Squatting, Spitting and Defecating in publicand in general Filthifying the place? 10: IF not, why is he persistently spouting Nonsene? Anyway . Peace be unto all including those who, knowingly or otherwise, misrepresent. jc
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
On 12 May 2013 10:00, Frederick FN Noronha wrote: The doc doth protest too much, methinks. COMMENT: 1: FN may be right. 2: FN may not be right. Until he discusses the body of the message by using clichés a la politicians, we would not know for true ..would we? 3: one question you may ask yourself: Am I (FN) being reasonable and justifiable in my (repeated) mis-representative words and Salazarist actions? 4: another question you may ask yourself: Is jc reasonable and justifiable in his 'protest'. 5: A few questions for all of us: (a) Is it reasonable and justifiable to 'protest'? (b) on what basis do we classify a 'protest' as being 'too much'? NOW: perhaps, FN will comment on the substance of my previous post minus the well worn (by politicians) cliché. best jc
Re: [Goanet] Roland Francis: Gulf Goans - Stray Thoughts of a Toronto Goan
It is primarily because of the constant pouring of migrants into Goa that the NGOs, one old but revived and the other new, are pushing for Special Status. With all 40 members of the Assembly having approved the government's proposal, there is a at least a chance of making the centre hear Goa's plea. However, what mechanism will be place to block the migrants from crossing over into Goa and resettling there would have to be seen. With less land available for housing in the cities and with builders moving into villages, Goans are already witnessing socio-economic problems. How much the government will tweak Article 19 to accommodate Goa, if at all the government wishes to grant Goa's plea, to make it near-impossible for outsiders to settle in Goa is to be seen. The Goa government's decision on entry tax for vehicles has created an adverse reaction from neighbouring states. Now comes the news that Pune bus operators will not come to Goa. Can be say safely that there would be no blacklash against Goans in neighbouring states if natives of both Karnataka and Maharashtra are prevented from settling in Goa? The union government would have to take a hard, closer look and the Goa government would also be doing itself good if it takes into consideration the risks following getting Special Status that would impinge impose restriction of movement of outsiders into Goa. There's no validity in basing Goa's case on the erosion of Goan identity because it's expected that with intergration into the Indian union, new migration and economic change, Goan identity would be running the risk of change. Outsiders who have assimiliated into Goan society, though retaining a few of their distinct traditions and characteristics, should not pose any problems and cannot be said to be agents in the perceived devolution of Goanness. Goenkarponn is what we are and what should remain now and in the future. Eugene
