Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Hi Bosco, Thanks for your response and your comments to my post. Since you are a reasonable and logical person, I am taking the liberty to explain my post. Partisans do not necessarily tell the truth or a lie. Their distortions, as we see abundantly on Goanet, occurs when they express their opinions. A fact / truth does not become a lie, just because it comes from a partisan source. In fact likely, the partisans because of their interest, do the research. Some frequent posters on Goanet and who are expert web-surfers, quote / copy these partisan-sources, without giving the web-link (reference) its credit. In the link I provided (see below), Ariana Huffington does not even appear in the web-link. Likely you did not see the videos of the web-link. The first video-link, shows O'Reiley making a condemnation, in his usual obnoxious-self. The second web-link, depicts the distortions of the truth with the actual facts. The two web-links speak for themselves with no commentary / explanation provided / required. Likely you fell for another poster's chronic mis-characterization of the Huffington Post. This blog carries articles written by many authorities in the US, including leading politicians, and other experts; like judge Posner an authority on antitrust, etc. You and others should follow the Huff-Po, for useful national and international news. Many credit the demise of MAJOR newspapers to factors, chief among which is the Huff-Po. It is usually updated three to four times a day, and sometimes oftener with Breaking News. The web-links provide for some good comedy. Each of the posts in the blog, provides for readers' input. What more would one want for free. Perhaps Goanet could follow a similar format. Huff-Po usually provides unedited web-links (print and video) to other news sources, including Fox News. This is the best way they quote the right wing of this country. With Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, the naked facts (from the source) speak for themselves with no commentary needed. Rather than concentrate on the source of information, we should focus, rebut or expand, on the facts / information itself. Or else, as often happens on goanet, we only get 'talking points' written-for, or copied-from the Talking Heads; with the other half of the post being the regular character assassination. When there is no sense to be made, personal name-calling is just so much more fun, and attention-getting. It also is grandstanding, when there is nothing to stand on. When the faux-pas is displayed for all to see, we get a weasel-retreat.:=)) This by itself is really hilarious. Goanetters are smart enough to distinguish factual information from sloganeering. Regards, GL --- Bosco D'Mello I concur with the comments in para 1. All politicians are less than completely truthful. Re the weblink above - that is another in a series of partisan websites vis-a-vis US politics. It provides the opposite view of the links that Mario provides. I would not use it as a reference for anything. Gilbert Lawrence Darn those instant references, fact-checking, transcripts and video-links. More increasingly, the right-wing is being caught red-handed lying about the facts. See below: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/05/rick-sanchez-rips-bill-or_n_211971.html
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Bosco D'Mello wrote: Whatever search engine Mario is using, it seems he only finds right-wing, conservative sources for his information. How very interesting!! Duh! The National Post? For those who are not aware of it, this is another one of those newspapers who publish articles with opinions, numbers and 'facts' that are no where near the truth. As such, people stop buying the paper and it has to operate at a perpetual loss. I guess the National Post must be relying on the US model of capitalism since it produces, at a loss, items no one wants to buy. My last comment on this subject is about today's news. This morning, Obama released his plan to revolutionize the US health care system. Peace be upon him. If he succeeds in getting the funding, I am moving back to the US. Think about it. Free medicals, cheap housing and a weak currency. Now is the time to move. All that is required is for me to find a place with good donuts and where the govt is giving subsidies to keep people working in failed industries. Mervyn1650Lobo __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
-Original Message- From: Mario Goveia First off, I'm grateful to Mario for proving me right as I had asserted towards the end of my previous post on this thread. Thank you Mario for being so predictable. Moving on Mario responds (excerpts) : On the other hand, Bosco and his cronies are left-leaning, liberal individuals Bosco objective information is to cite unsubstantiated anecdotes by a left leaning crony who has admitted to being a socialist It usually takes 2 messages in any thread for Mario to bring out the heavy-weaponry, name-calling and abuse. When that happens, one can sit back and have a good laugh knowing fully well that Mario has lost the debate, if at all there was a debate. Its time for him to throw tantrums and get giddy. That's when the binary bits get garbled..:-)) Here is a sample of Mario's conventional wisdom: accusing THEM of being biased, dishonest and greedy = personal invective and snide slurs Keep that in mind folks everytime you read Mario's messages. When Mario accuses somebody of being biased, it means he is directing personal invective and/or making a snide slur. Bosco only has biased personal anecdotes in response. Ooops!!! Appears Mario just directed personal invective at me and/or introduced a snide slur in this exchange. Naw-Naw, Mario..tch-tch-tch.you are violating your own grand-standing, no?? So predictable, yaar!!! So, let me provide another Canadian target and see how Bosco tries to demonize him. This one is John Turley-Ewart, the National Post's deputy comment Editor. In addition to writing editorials and op eds for the National Post and Financial Post, Turley-Ewart is a member of the National Post's editorial board: WOT??? Did Mario just say National Post??? O-M-G!! National Post, the newspaper established by Lord Conrad Black, who is now languishing in the Coleman Federal Correction Complex in Orlando, FL. National Post, did he say?? The same newspaper that cannot afford a print-run 7-days a week?? Oh waitinstead of wasting my time educating Mario, lets give him the link that is a tell-all. Hopefully he reads it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post Whatever search engine Mario is using, it seems he only finds right-wing, conservative sources for his information. How very interesting!! WRT the op-editor, who has been accused of Islamophobia, among other things...oh wait, I guess that is enough reason for Mario to handout his business-card. Do not misunderstand me, I read the National Post (hardcopy) almost every weekday for a broader understanding of current issues and sometimes for a good laugh. Seriously, our own Goenkar, Fr Raymond J.deSouza, a descedent of Saligao, is a regular contributor to the National Post. See his recent column at: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/05/28/father-raymond-j-de-souza-predators-upon-the-flock.aspx Anyway Mario, I will put you out of your misery. This is my last contribution on this thread. Many of us know you well enough. You are a cut-and-paste champion, whether you understand the subject under discussion in a thread or not. You will argue endlessly even if the cows come home. 'Cut-and-Paste' accompanied with a few gratuitous comments thrown-in = your opinion on issuesVoila!! Another opportunity awaits you - The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine - perhaps you do know something about the subject of this thread!! Andare nella PaceakaGo in Peace!! - Bosco
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:12:56 -0400 From: Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com First off, I'm grateful to Mario for proving me right as I had asserted towards the end of my previous post on this thread. Thank you Mario for being so predictable. Mario responds: Bosco, I am happy that you are grateful because you are so rarely correct on the issues. However, you were correct that I would respond, as I always do when rebutting unsubstantiated propaganda:-)) Bosco wrote: It usually takes 2 messages in any thread for Mario to bring out the heavy-weaponry, name-calling and abuse. Mario responds: I find it interesting that it is now considered abuse to call left-leaning, liberal individuals left-leaning, liberal individuals. BTW, this was written in response to Bosco calling the Fraser Institute, a respected Canadian think tank, ...a right-leaning, conservative think-tank and registered charity. If I was engaged in abuse, then so was Bosco. Bosco wrote: When that happens, one can sit back and have a good laugh knowing fully well that Mario has lost the debate, if at all there was a debate. Mario responds: Bosco's notion of winning a debate is to respond to numerous well researched reports of rationing of health care in Canada by respected organizations and news sources by citing anecdotes and propaganda about the Canadian quality of life from his admittedly socialist cronies. Bosco wrote: Here is a sample of Mario's conventional wisdom: accusing THEM of being biased, dishonest and greedy = personal invective and snide slurs Keep that in mind folks every time you read Mario's messages. When Mario accuses somebody of being biased, it means he is directing being biased, dishonest and greedy = personal invective and snide slurs. Mario responds: What I described as biased and dishonest personal invective and snide slurs were the following comments by Bosco: a) The 'respected' Fraser Institute is a right-leaning, conservative think-tank and registered charity. It is a promoter of greater private sector involvement in the delivery of health care insurance and services [1] aka US-style of delivery of medicare. b) The 'respected' Fraser Institute has a luminous list of staffers. Among them Mike Harris, former Conservative Premier of Ontario, famous for ravaging the health-system in the province of Ontario during his two-terms in office in the 90s. c) Another infamous staffer is Preston Manning, founder of the far-right Reform Party of Canada (1987 - 2000) [2]. d) Nadeem Esmail is employed by the Fraser Institute. He is Director, Health System Performance Studies. He is employed by a conservative think-tank that opposes the government's role in delivering health care. e) Dr Brian Day, is the former president of the Canadian Medical Association. He is an advocate for privatizing health care. [3] [Bosco had previously described Dr. Day as greedy for being an advocate for privatizing health care in Canada] After accusing the respected Fraser Institute officials of being biased, dishonest and greedy, i.e. personal invective and snide slurs, WITHOUT A SINGLE REBUTTAL OF THEIR SPECIFIC RESEARCH, Bosco is now whining about being accused of personal invective and snide slurs, hoping no one will remember the personal invective and snide slurs he had engaged in. Bosco wrote: Ooops!!! Appears Mario just directed personal invective at me and/or introduced a snide slur in this exchange. Mario responds: This is another example of Bosco whining about being accused of personal invective and snide slurs, after I had written Bosco only has biased personal anecdotes in response. I guess pointing out something silly that Bosco has written is now called personal invective and snide slurs against him. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Bosco wrote: WOT??? Did Mario just say National Post??? O-M-G!! National Post, the newspaper established by Lord Conrad Black, who is now languishing in the Coleman Federal Correction Complex in Orlando, FL. Whatever search engine Mario is using, it seems he only finds right-wing, conservative sources for his information. WRT the op-editor, who has been accused of Islamophobia, Mario responds: Yet again, for the third time in a row, the liberal, left leaning Bosco, has responded to a report by attacking the publication or the author(s) WITHOUT ANY REBUTTAL OF THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT THEY HAVE REPORTED. BTW, for Bosco and his cronies, the accusation of Islamophobia is applied to anyone who opposes the radical Islamo-fascists in the middle east and their supporters in north America whose primary targets are innocent Muslims. Bosco wrote: Do not misunderstand me, I read the National Post (hardcopy) almost every weekday for a broader understanding of current issues and sometimes for a good laugh. Seriously, our own Goenkar, Fr Raymond J.deSouza, a descedent of Saligao, is a regular contributor to the National Post. Mario notes: It appears from
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:41:54 -0400 From: Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com The 'respected' Fraser Institute is a right-leaning, conservative think-tank and registered charity. Mario responds: On the other hand, Bosco and his cronies are left-leaning, liberal individuals who have apparently never heard of a medical waiting list in Canada, where they live. Pretty amazing.. The 2009 report from the Fraser Institute repeated the 2006 report I posted earlier of the rationing in the FREE Canadian health care system of serious medical procedures. Bosco only has biased personal anecdotes in response. So, he has decided to attack the members and officers of the Fraser Institute with personal invective and snide slurs - accusing THEM of being biased, dishonest and greedy. By the way, the Institute publishes its biased reports openly so that their research can be scrutinised by serious individuals. Perhaps Bosco can contact Nadeem Esmail and offer to debate him on Goanet. Rather than rebutt the reports of the worsening rationing of health care in Canada in spite of the escalating costs with credible information that there is no serious rationing of health care in Canada, Bosco objective information is to cite unsubstantiated anecdotes by a left leaning crony who has admitted to being a socialist and admirer of Castro, Chavez and their new Comrade Obama. So, let me provide another Canadian target and see how Bosco tries to demonize him. This one is John Turley-Ewart, the National Post's deputy comment Editor. In addition to writing editorials and op eds for the National Post and Financial Post, Turley-Ewart is a member of the National Post's editorial board: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/01/29/john-turley-ewart-rationing-health-care-in-canada-continues-to-take-its-toll.aspx Excerpt: This is now the norm in Canada where rationed care leaves people hanging and hoping that their turn in the system will finally come, providing the diagnoses or relief that they need to move on with their lives. That rationing extends beyond the operating theatre. The Canadian Medical Association now estimates that more than 4 million Canadians don't have a family doctor. That amounts to 12% of the population, an astounding number that make efforts to direct people away from emergency rooms when they are sick a near useless endeavour. How far is Canada behind its OECD peers? The CMA paints a bleak picture: The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) average number of physicians per 1000 population is 36% higher than Canada's. To match the OECD ratio, Canada would need 26,000 more physicians. Canada is nowhere near able to produce the doctors it now requires, a shortage that was created two decades ago when provincial health ministers thought they could reduce health care spending by reducing the number of doctors they graduated annually. [end of excerpts] Once he figures out how to attack John Turley-Ewart, perhaps Bosco can start attacking the reports by the BBC and The Guardian of the rationing of health care in another FREE national health care system, in good old Blighty. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/06/health.politics http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/251988.stm
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
marlon menezes wrote: The problem with the US system is definitely not because it is underfunded. Quite the contrary, the US spends a far larger share of its GNP on health care than Canada. For a variety of reasons, US health care is just too expensive for the return one gets. Furthermore, no budgetary allowances were made on how to pay for this by its beneficiaries, or by the government in general. This means that US society will not just be paying for Mario's health care now, but also after he is long gone. Marlon, I think the above is grossly unfair. You cannot compare a system like Canada's with a system that needs borrowed funds to operate. US journalist have realized this issue and are now comparing the bankrupt US capitalist system verses that of equally bankrupt Tanzania. A child born in the US today gets saddled with a $30,000 debt, compliments of George Bush (43). Hussein and Co are continuing the drunken spending spree of their predecessors. Here is a link to a June article that gives some indication of the bankruptcy and the similarities/comparisons that the US and Tanzanian capitalist face. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200906/bankrupcy Mervyn1650Lobo __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
-Original Message- From: Mario Goveia Mario wrote: To the rest of Goanet, Bosco, who lives in Canada, as does Mervyn, says the information I posted from 2-0-0-6 is outdated and tries to ridicule me for posting it!! Well, I just chose that one article from a plethora of sources on the wonders of the Canadian health care system and thus unintentionally provided Bosco with the bait to embarrass himself:-)) To be fair to myself, I DID say the FREE Canadian health care system works great for hang nails, and probably for coughs and colds and other simple procedures that are non-life-threatening as well. I wonder if information from March 26, 2009 written by serious Canadians who actually study these things as compared with the supposed ad hoc views of friends and relatives, will make a better impression on Bosco, or will he resort to demonizing the messenger again. http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS107447+26-Mar-2009+PRN20090326 Hey, Bosco, I wonder if Nadeem Esmail is as greedy as Dr. Brian Day:-)) RESPONSE: 'Serious Canadians'!!! There is no such thing 'Study'?? This is not a replicate of the Cato Institute, ok!!! The 'respected' Fraser Institute is a right-leaning, conservative think-tank and registered charity. It is a promoter of greater private sector involvement in the delivery of healthcare insurance and services [1] aka US-style of delivery of medicare. Naturally, it is opposed to the Canada Health Act and the government's role in delivering healthcare. Is it any surprise it generates reports saying the sky is falling down on the Canadian Health System?? The 'respected' Fraser Institute has a luminous list of staffers. Among them Mike Harris, former Conservative Premier of Ontario, famous for ravaging the health-system in the province of Ontario during his two-terms in office in the 90s. Another infamous staffer is Preston Manning, founder of the far-right Reform Party of Canada (1987 - 2000) [2]. Canada's current PM, Harper is a key-player from those early Reform Party days. Nadeem Esmail is employed by the Fraser Institute. He is Director, Health System Performance Studies. He is employed by a conservative think-tank that opposes the government's role in delivering healthcare. Dr Brian Day, is the former president of the Canadian Medical Association. He is an advocate for privatizing health care. [3] Having said that, no report or interview of any hot-shot is going to take away from a first-hand experience that Mervyn describes himself. I can relate to several cases of severely ill friends who received timely care and made complete recoveries from serious illnesses. On the flip-side the Canadian Health System is not perfect and not consistent across the country. Health is a provincial portfolio. The 'respected' Fraser Institute also generates another annual report - school report cards and ranking of schools in Ontario. Yes, I too notice the institute's obsession with Ontario. Need I add, the institute promotes private schooling over tax-payer/public-funded school boards. Good luck with your cut-and-paste jobs!! Glad it keeps you busy..:-)) Nevertheless, can you take this thread back to its origins? More than unlikely, but do prove me wrong!! Do you feel demonized, again??? Tch-tch-tch.:-)) - Bosco Sources: [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Institute [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Party_of_Canada [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Day
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
I am not in favor, neither am I against a single payer (Canadian / British) health-care plan. The attached though makes one think carefully. One of the difficulties of implementing a single payor plan or any efficient health-care plan is the following: The amount specified are dollars (with no decimals). The compensation for the next echelon likely closely follows the top dog. ANNUAL COMPENSATION (2006 and 2007): � Ronald A. Williams, Chair/ CEO, Aetna Inc., $23,045,834 � H. Edward Hanway, Chair/ CEO, Cigna Corp, $30.16 million � David B. Snow, Jr, Chair/ CEO, Medco Health, $21.76 million � Michael B. MCallister, CEO, Humana Inc, $20.06 million � Stephen J. Hemsley, CEO, UnitedHealth Group, $13,164,529 � Angela F. Braly, President/ CEO, Wellpoint, $9,094,771 � Dale B. Wolf, CEO, Coventry Health Care, $20.86 million � Jay M. Gellert, President/ CEO, Health Net, $16.65 million � William C. Van Faasen, Chairman, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3 million plus $16.4 million in retirement benefits � Charlie Baker, President/ CEO, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, $1.5 million � James Roosevelt, Jr., CEO, Tufts Associated Health Plans, $1.3 million � Cleve L. Killingsworth, President/CEO Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3.6 million � Raymond McCaskey, CEO, Health Care Service Corp (Blue Cross Blue Shield), $10.3 million � Daniel P. McCartney, CEO, Healthcare Services Group, Inc, $ 1,061,513 � Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555 � Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825 � Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751 � Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555 � Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825 Above information posted on the net. Regards, GL
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
-Original Message- From: Gilbert Lawrence Bosco, Darn those instant references, fact-checking, transcripts and video-links. More increasingly, the right-wing is being caught red-handed lying about the facts. See below: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/05/rick-sanchez-rips-bill-or_n_211971.html RESPONSE: I concur with the comments in para 1. All politicians are less than completely truthful. Re the weblink above - that is another in a series of partisan websites vis-a-vis US politics. It provides the opposite view of the links that Mario provides. I would not use it as a reference for anything. Arianna's theatrics on the tube are boring. Perhaps you are aware she was a right-winger in the 80s and 90s before turning into a liberal-Democrat after divorcing the oil-magnate [1]. - Bosco References: [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianna_Huffington
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Mario wrote: I wonder if Mervyn has spoken with any Canadians before writing this. If he had he would have discovered that the Canadian quality life style includes being put on a medical waiting list for anything more serious than a hang nail: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/international/americas/26canada.html Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:45:01 -0400 From: Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com Personally, seeing how the Health system here in Ontario is benefiting my friends (that includes non-active Goanetters), I have no hesitation in seconding Mervyn. Canada's Health Act is working well for the people I know. I'm sure there are exceptions. But in today's world of instant information to draw attention to an article from 2006 is indicative ofoutdated facts!!! Get with the times, Mario2-0-0-6!!! Geeez!!! Half of 2009 is almost oThe NY Times article that Mario refers us to talks about Dr Brian Day, a Canadian private health-care promoter. He hates the Canada Health Act as he cannot profit enough on account of it. Greed? Perhaps. Dr Brian Day is opposed to the Canada Health Act as he is prefers the for profit model. Is it any surprise that Mario is tooting Day's hornmind you from 2006. ver. Canadian Health System - Its better to hear first-hand from a Canadian, rather than a cut-and-paste American!!! Mario responds: Hey, Bostiaon, Kitem mhontai, re? Why do you embarrass yourself like this? Haven't you learned by now that I do my homework before spouting off. I would highly recommend this procedure to you and your crony in Toronto who told us about the Canadian government's goal was to provide quality life styles. You guys must think the rest of us just got off the plane. Re. your concluding comment in the excerpt above, it all depends on the Canadian, doesn't it? Don't you think that a cut and paste American using facts provides far better information than Canadian left wing propagandists who admit to being socialists and their cronies for whom anyone who wants to make a profit is GREEDY? Surely, if Dr. Brian Day, whom you tried to demonize above, REALLY wanted to make a profit he would have moved to the US long ago as so many other greedy Canadian physicians have done. Perhaps you should have checked with a few more people than your friends and Mervyn's friends and relatives whose views you claim to represent. To the rest of Goanet, Bosco, who lives in Canada, as does Mervyn, says the information I posted from 2-0-0-6 is outdated and tries to ridicule me for posting it!! Well, I just chose that one article from a plethora of sources on the wonders of the Canadian health care system and thus unintentionally provided Bosco with the bait to embarrass himself:-)) To be fair to myself, I DID say the FREE Canadian health care system works great for hang nails, and probably for coughs and colds and other simple procedures that are non-life-threatening as well. I wonder if information from March 26, 2009 written by serious Canadians who actually study these things as compared with the supposed ad hoc views of friends and relatives, will make a better impression on Bosco, or will he resort to demonizing the messenger again. http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS107447+26-Mar-2009+PRN20090326 Excerpt: The U.S. House Energy and Commerce subcommittee on health should take note of Canada's experience, where a government run, single-payer health care system burdens citizens with lengthy wait times for surgery and other treatments, says a leading Canadian health economist. Americans who seek to use Canada as model for reforming their health care system need to be aware that a single-payer health care system like Canada's results in unacceptably long waits for medical procedures, said Nadeem Esmail, Fraser Institute director of health system performance studies and co-author of the 18th annual edition of Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada. In spite of large increases in health spending, wait times in Canada are 86 percent longer now than they were in 1993 and are having a considerable impact on the well being of Canadians. [end of excerpt] Hey, Bosco, I wonder if Nadeem Esmail is as greedy as Dr. Brian Day:-)) Here is another interview with Nadeem Esmail published Y-E-S-T-E-R-D-A-Y. http://media.www.mcgilltribune.com/media/storage/paper234/news/2008/01/29/News/Exclusive.Interview.Nadeem.Esmail.Fraser.Institute.Director.Talks.Healthcare.Re-3172776.shtml
[Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 05:03:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com Darn those instant references, fact-checking, transcripts and video-links. More increasingly, the right-wing is being caught red-handed lying about the facts. Finally they are getting around to acknowledging??... and... apologizing, in some cases. See below: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/05/rick-sanchez-rips-bill-or_n_211971.html Mario responds: This thread is a discussion on the Canadian health care system. I wonder if Gilbert understood that???:-)) In response, the link that Gilbert has posted above has nothing to do with health care. It is about a comment made by talk show host, Bill O'Reilly, who alleged that CNN had not covered the news of a certain incident where a Muslim convert and religious fanatic had murdered a US Army recruiter. O'Reilly was mistaken, because there was some coverage of the news by CNN, so he apologized when it was shown that he was wrong. As Fred, who I'm sure has unintentionally misreported a fact or two would write, ???, i.e. what's the big deal when compared to all the falsehoods posted daily on Gilbert's favorite source of far left wing propaganda that the writers never apologize for?? BTW, the CNN reporter, Rick Sanchez, is a far left wing zealot who has also had incidents of false and misleading opinions that he represented as news that have been widely discredited as phony journalism. No wonder Gilbert is quoting him. Gilbert wrote: At least the right wing radio and TV distorts the truth for the million of dollars in profit. Pray, please tell me why would other individuals do it?? Ania tea Bahia on Garnet?:=)) Merely for writing down distortions of the truth or displaying their ignorance? The shrill America-first writings should be reserved for the right-wing blags or in mass-mailing to the Republicans. That script is a good hook for rallying the conservative party-faithful and of course for fund-raising. Mario observes: Here we see Gilbert - who is allegedly a physician in an American state which borders Canada and should thus know better from all the Canadians who come south when they want to improve the chances of prolonging their lives - displaying his far left wing bias with more embarrassing comments that have nothing to do with the thread, while building yet another trademark straw man.. Perhaps the following information will educate him as well on the wonders of the Canadian health care system and bring him up to date on the thread. http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS107447+26-Mar-2009+PRN20090326 http://media.www.mcgilltribune.com/media/storage/paper234/news/2008/01/29/News/Exclusive.Interview.Nadeem.Esmail.Fraser.Institute.Director.Talks.Healthcare.Re-3172776.shtml Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:27:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca For those who are not aware of it, the Canadian health care system is funded by the Federal Govt AND the province you live in with most services provided by private entities. As a frequent user of the system, I am totally satisfied with the services I receive in Ontario. Also keep in mind that when waiting times get unacceptable, those effected will make a big noise about it and the Gov ts are forced to take notice or collapse. I am confident that Barrack (blessed be, his name) will use the Canadian model to radically change the US health care system. However, since the US is essentially broke, there is the possibility that the needed changes will only be implemented in a watered down or superficial manner. Mario observes: Folks, the ...funded by the Federal Govt AND the province you live in... is an euphemism for PAID FOR BY THE TAXPAYERS THROUGH THEIR TAXES. This enables them to call the system FREE:-)) However, rather than pay the service provider directly, government bureaucrats take the money and pay the providers. It's sort of like feeding a pig through a horse:-)) It looks like Bosco's misguided comments which I have responded to separately, have spawned these typically anti-American posts from Gilbert and Mervyn, displaying, at best, notable bias and propaganda and, at worst, outright misrepresentations about the Canadian health care system as shown by the links above of information gathered by a Canadian economist who specializes in the Canadian health care system and uses serious research and not the anecdotes and distortions provided by biased Goanetters with an agenda. Mervyn suggests that if there were unacceptable waiting lists the citizens would make noise and the Govts would have to take notice. I guess the fact that the waiting lists are worse today than in the past shows what is accceptable in Canada where they claim to have a superior quality of life, whereas the most immigrants head for the US as a first preference because of its low quailty of life:-)) Date:
[Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Bosco, Darn those instant references, fact-checking, transcripts and video-links. More increasingly, the right-wing is being caught red-handed lying about the facts. Finally they are getting around to acknowledging ... and... apologizing, in some cases. See below: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/05/rick-sanchez-rips-bill-or_n_211971.html At least the right wing radio and TV distorts the truth for the million of dollars in profit. Pray, please tell me why would other individuals do it? Ani tea bhair on goanet?:=)) Merely for writing down distortions of the truth or displaying their ignorance? The shrill America-first writings should be reserved for the right-wing blogs or in mass-mailing to the Republicans. That script is a good hook for rallying the conservative party-faithful and of course for fund-raising. Regards,GL - Bosco D'Mello But in today's world of instant information to draw attention to an article from 2006 is indicative ofoutdated facts!!! Get with the times, Mario2-0-0-6!!! Geeez!!! Half of 2009 is almost over. To follow wait times in Ontario and more importantly, to follow wait times for surgery for life-threatening illnesses do not depend on Mario's outdated references. Instead refer to the Govt of Ontario's website. The NY Times article that Mario refers us to talks about Dr Brian Day, a Canadian private health-care promoter. He hates the Canada Health Act as he cannot profit enough on account of it. Greed? Perhaps. Dr Brian Day is opposed to the Canada Health Act as he is prefers the for profit model. Is it any surprise that Mario is tooting Day's hornmind you from 2006. Canadian Health System - Its better to hear first-hand from a Canadian, rather than cut-and-paste American!!!
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Bosco D'Mello wrote: It is true, the Canada Health Act [1] does not serve 100% of Canadians, 100% of the time.!!! However it appears that Mervyn is speaking from personal experience. While the Canada Health Act was instituted by the the Canadian parliament (federal), its implementation is a provincial jurisdiction. Mervyn lives in Ontario. He knows first-hand how the health system is benefiting his family (immediate and extended) and friends. Personally, seeing how the Health system here in Ontario is benefiting my friends (that includes non-active Goanetters), I have no hesitation in seconding Mervyn. Canada's Health Act is working well for the people I know. I'm sure there are exceptions. Folks, For those who are not aware of it, the Canadian health care system is funded by the Federal Govt AND the province you live in with most services provided by private entities. As a frequent user of the system, I am totally satisfied with the services I receive in Ontario. But that is not all. There are services provided that most non-Canadians are unaware of. For example, a few weeks ago I got an email from a resident of Goa who informed me that the Govt of Ontario was providing kidney dialysis services for Ontario residents visiting Goa. The bottom line is that all Canadians are convinced that the weakest sections of society and anyone facing a crises should get help from the rest of the society s/he lives in. To follow wait times in Ontario and more importantly, to follow wait times for surgery for life-threatening illnesses do not depend on Mario's outdated references. Instead refer to the Govt of Ontario's website [2]: Also keep in mind that when waiting times get unacceptable, those effected will make a big noise about it and the Govts are forced to take notice or collapse. Turning to US capitalism, let me remind all that the US is the only country in the industrialized world that lacks a universal health care system. I read reports every week about retirees that live in a constant fear of losing their life's savings if they are caught with a medical crises that they find is not fully covered by their private insurance policy. Worse still is when they find themselves in the situation that the for profit insurance systems refuse to cover. According to the August issue of the American Journal of Medicine, the cost of obtaining medical care resulted in sixty-two percent of bankruptcies in 2007 – an increase of 49.7 percent from 2001. Most interestingly, patients who filed bankruptcy as the result of health care costs had health insurance. (1) The US health care system has to be in a mess if Obama (slightly bent) has identified health-care reform as the biggest priority for the first year of his Presidency.(2) I am confident that Barrack (blessed be, his name) will use the Canadian model to radically change the US health care system. However, since the US is essentially broke, there is the possibility that the needed changes will only be implemented in a watered down or superficial manner. Finally, I am convinced that it is the lack of funds that are forcing an increasing number of US residents to choose faith-based alternatives to health insurance. Mervyn1650Lobo (1) http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/72/31551/despite-health-insurance-medical-costs-lead-bankruptcy.html (2) http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE53801320090409 __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
--- On Sun, 6/7/09, Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca wrote: Folks, For those who are not aware of it, the Canadian health care system is funded by the Federal Govt AND the province you live in with most services provided by private entities. As a frequent user of the system, I am totally satisfied with the services I receive in Ontario. -- Isn't it ironic that Mario, the self appointed critic of other nation's socialized health care is one of the biggest beneficiaries of the patchwork socialized medicinal system in America? Right now, for example, he is entitled to virtually free coverage of all his prescription medication - an extravagant legacy of the previous US government. Furthermore, no budgetary allowances were made on how to pay for this by its beneficiaries, or by the government in general. This means that US society will not just be paying for Mario's health care now, but also after he is long gone. --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca wrote: I am confident that Barrack (blessed be, his name) will use the Canadian model to radically change the US health care system. However, since the US is essentially broke, there is the possibility that the needed changes will only be implemented in a watered down or superficial manner. --- The problem with the US system is definitely not because it is underfunded. Quite the contrary, the US spends a far larger share of its GNP on health care than Canada. For a variety of reasons, US health care is just too expensive for the return one gets. Marlon
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
-Original Message- From: Mario Goveia Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:01:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Mervyn Lobo Looks like the US focus is on the costs of providing medical services. This is a significant difference from the Canadian focus which is?on providing a quality life style for its residents. Mario responds: I wonder if Mervyn has spoken with any Canadians before writing this. If he had he would have discovered that the Canadian quality life style includes being put on a medical waiting list for anything more serious than a hang nail: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/international/americas/26canada.html RESPONSE: It is true, the Canada Health Act [1] does not serve 100% of Canadians, 100% of the time.!!! However it appears that Mervyn is speaking from personal experience. While the Canada Health Act was instituted by the the Canadian parliament (federal), its implementation is a provincial jurisdiction. Mervyn lives in Ontario. He knows first-hand how the health system is benefiting his family (immediate and extended) and friends. Personally, seeing how the Health system here in Ontario is benefiting my friends (that includes non-active Goanetters), I have no hesitation in seconding Mervyn. Canada's Health Act is working well for the people I know. I'm sure there are exceptions. But in today's world of instant information to draw attention to an article from 2006 is indicative ofoutdated facts!!! Get with the times, Mario2-0-0-6!!! Geeez!!! Half of 2009 is almost over. To follow wait times in Ontario and more importantly, to follow wait times for surgery for life-threatening illnesses do not depend on Mario's outdated references. Instead refer to the Govt of Ontario's website [2]: The NY Times article that Mario refers us to talks about Dr Brian Day, a Canadian private health-care promoter. He hates the Canada Health Act as he cannot profit enough on account of it. Greed? Perhaps. Dr Brian Day is opposed to the Canada Health Act as he is prefers the for profit model. Is it any surprise that Mario is tooting Day's hornmind you from 2006. Canadian Health System - Its better to hear first-hand from a Canadian, rather than a cut-and-paste American!!! - Bosco aka Goan-Canadian Toronto, ON References: [1] http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/medi-assur/cha-lcs/overview-apercu-eng.php [2] http://www.health.gov.on.ca/transformation/wait_times/public/wt_public_mn.html#
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:01:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca Looks like the US focus is on the costs of providing medical services. This is a significant difference from the Canadian focus which is?on providing a quality life style for its residents. Mario responds: I wonder if Mervyn has spoken with any Canadians before writing this. If he had he would have discovered that the Canadian quality life style includes being put on a medical waiting list for anything more serious than a hang nail: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/international/americas/26canada.html In the meantime, the abominable, cost conscious US health care system is a serious burden on US life styles because there are NO medical waiting lists. The US system also has some other major shortcomings as well as listed in the following analysis: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649 Mervyn wrote: The weakest section of society i.e. those over 65 is the section that benefits the most from Canada's system of health care. Obama (blessed be, his name) is studying the Canadian model at this very moment and may introduce the US to a clone of the Canadian model. Mario corrects the facts again: In Canada those over 65 are even more at risk from medical waiting lists because their illnesses are likely to be even more life threatening due to their age. In the meantime Americans over 65 are covered by a low cost Medicare system that includes NO medical waiting lists. At this very moment Obama is busy fraternizing with the Arabs, genuflecting before King Abdullah and finally proclaiming his Muslim background after denying it throughout the presidential campaign last year, even writing in his memoires that his now supposedly-Muslim father, whom he never knew, was an atheist. There is absolutely NO evidence that Obama has ever considered the Canadian system, as wonderful as it is in providing a quality life style by Canadian standards as shown above. Obama knows that if the US system becomes as efficient as the Canadian system, Canadians will have to go elsewhere for any serious and life threatening treatments if they want to prolong their lives to enjoy all that quality life style they have up there.
Re: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism and Ayurveda medicine
marlon menezes wrote: If high quality medical services can be provided in India, then why not? The cost structure in the US, specially for medical care is way out of whack. As a fraction of GDP, the US pays 50% more than the UK (or around 60-70% more on a per capita basis), but yet, an average citizen in the UK has a longer life expectancy than in the US. The US must look into medical outsourcing to reduce costs. Older individuals and people who have unhealthy lifestyles (eg. over weight, smokers etc) should be made to pay higher costs to reflect their true costs. Hospitals in the US should have the right to reject treating emergency patients if they don't have insurance, even it is fatal to the subjects in question. The current approach in the US is that basic health care is ignored, but the govt. then steps in and forces hospitals to provide high cost emergency care. Marlon, Looks like the US focus is on the costs of providing medical services. This is a significant difference from the Canadian focus which is on providing a quality life style for its residents. The weakest section of society i.e. those over 65 is the section that benefits the most from Canada's system of health care. Obama (blessed be, his name) is studying the Canadian model at this very moment and may introduce the US to a clone of the Canadian model. However, I don't think he will succeed as the US is, essentially, broke. Perhaps the way out is to provide 'Ayurveda medicine' to the sick. There in one blow, you cut cost drastically and provide employment to thousands on Indians. Mervyn1650Lobo --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Goanet] The state of US capitalism To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 6:45 PM Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:08:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca The US Govt today became the owner of General Motors. As one Toronto paper explained, the US govt will also simultaneously serve as the company's regulator, tax collector, customer. pension backstop and lender. I love it. Mario responds: Of course you do, since you were one of those who supported the election of the radical socialist government of Messiah Hussein [Peace be upon him!] Now he is trying to make the US just like Canada. If he succeeds in making the US health care system as efficient as Canada's the Canadians will have no option but to go to India for serious treatments. __ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
