Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes (2)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Aristo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario wrote: Which raises the question of whether someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be an atheist in good standing? Apparently so:-)) After all Stalin, Mao, Ho, Pol, Fidel and Kim were and are still considered upstanding atheists. Aristo enquires: Mario, Can you please inform us who and when did anyone on Goanet stated that any of the above were upstanding? I would like to give them a piece of my mind, just as I did to Vivek! Mario asks: In spite of my mentioning these tyrants several times, can you cite for me a single atheist on Goanet that has categorically repudiated or condemned their atrocities? All these communist-atheist tyrants persecuted all religious people as political insurgents because they obstructed the heinous goals of communism. As a recent convert to atheism, please let us know how we would know that an atheist had lost his standing as an atheist by committing even gross atrocities. Aristo writes: Also, as for Fidel, I must admit that I am ignorant about his brutalities, besides imprisonment of his political opponents and dictatorship of course. As my 2nd request, can you please offer us some impartial (read non-american) and credible sources of information of his brutalities? Mario observes: Where did you get the quaint idea that the non-American media is impartial?? Some are, others like Al Jazeera, Reuters and the BBC, are not. In this day and age, one has to follow a broad spectrum of news to get a sense of the truth, often by reading between the lines and picking up on what is not reported. I find it amusing to say the least that ALL you find wrong with Fidel's brutalities are the ...imprisonment of his political opponents and dictatorship Isn't that enough for someone like you who apparently wants freedom and democracy only for yourself? Perhaps the media you follow has omitted to mention the thousands of Cubans who risk their lives each and every year in rickety boats and rafts to escape from Cuba. Ask yourself why people would risk their lives to get away from a country, year in and year out, for decades now, even though some Canadian Goanetters marvel at Cuba's free education and health care and allegedly cutting-edge medical technology. Aristo writes: I hope this is not part of your demagogy-style propaganda towards maligning atheists. Mario responds: Aristo, I think the record shows that you have far more demagogic tendencies than you will ever be able to find from me, starting with your comical rapist conundrum to the Christian Golden Rule and subsequent claims that I had maligned all atheists and used the term Islamo-fascist loosely, all of which I was able to disprove with half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair:-)) As I have said before, I strongly suspect you either don't read what I say or are so busy interpreting what I say that you miss what I have clearly said altogether. I have never maligned atheists, or anyone else, in general. I have said I know some who are very good people by any standard. I have said that they may have moral codes that are superior to anyone else - but we have no way of knowing what their code may be, unless they get arrested. On the other hand I have described some theists as Christian-fascists, using the same standards I have used to call other theists Islamo-fascists, and some atheists as the worst tyrants in history based on the estimated body count of innocent lives they had taken in order to maintain their dictatorial positions. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. SanTosh, It must take some scientific mind to find my comments below revealing of an ideology. Any outside observer would simply attempt to verify the facts, if they were remotely interested in determining whether you're reliable at providing accurate quotes. Good standing is determined by others, so I can't tell you how or where I stand in my reputation as a Christian. I have condensed quotes for brevity, but have never been accused of distorting the intent of the original poster. Lastly, I don't consider myself more moral than you. There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. Peter --- Peter D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SanTosh, given your truncation, modification and distortion of quotes you will never be a Catholic in good standing. The above accusation is quite revealing about the problem of ideological prejudice and self-righteousness that I have referred to earlier. The obvious questions that I have to ask this poster are: How about you? Are you a Catholic or Christian in good standing? Have you ever truncated, modified and distorted quotes? Do you consider yourself more moral than me? Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes - Stale advice instead of action
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha Now, how about giving up on flogging this dead horse, since were're actually getting no-where on it? --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frederick, Forgive me for being direct with you. Instead of dispensing stale advice and cliches, how about enforcing the existing Goanet rules? When is the last time you have suspended or expelled anybody for repeatedly violating them? If my views and posts violate the rules, please kick me out? I for one will not complain. This is a moderated forum where the moderators are supposed to be in charge. Don't worry about being accused of censorship. Please have some courage for a change. Why are you wasting time trying to be fair to everybody? You may think you are fair, but in a lop-sided world there is no fairness. Habitual violators of the rules will always get away if the moderators are weak. So please have the courage to kick me out. Mario observes: Fred, Actually flogging this dead horse is resulting in the much needed exposure of some tendencies that many Goanet members of the silent majority variety have apparently been chafing under for quite sometime now. To wit, the unprovoked attacks on Christian and other religious beliefs of many Goanet members by a small coterie of aggressive atheists and agnostics and moral relativists determined to ridicule and denigrate organized religion sometimes using scurrilous methods in order to do so. We have seen this in the recent attempt to show that the moral codes of organized morally based groups are fake, the shrill attempts to prove that Hitler was a staunch Catholic in good standing by a member who claims to be a Catholic but is on record as being unable to even recognize the attacks on religion or the rock solid Catholic moral codes, the attempts to prove that the Vatican was complicit in Nazi atrocities, and the slyly worded flame baits using alleged provocations that had nothing to do with what anyone on Goanet had opined or any discussion that was taking place on Goanet. Then we see curious and comical attempts to deflect attention towards alleged rule violations by other members and objections to the moderators ...trying to be fair to everybody. We all know that Santosh is being disingenious when he says without qualification, If my views and posts violate the rules, please kick me out We all know that he does not habitually violate the rules. Neither do other members habitually violate the rules. However, my impression is that the moderators have been more than generous in interpreting Santosh's posts to the chagrin of other members. Therefore, Santosh is correct that the moderators need to be more consistent and firm in applying the rules equally TO ALL MEMBERS. I also think they should explain a rejection in more detail which gives a member the opportunity to edit their post and re-submit it. I don't think anyone seriously wants Santosh or anyone else kicked off an open public forum like Goanet. Even his leadership role in denigrating religion is part of free speech as far as I'm concerned, as long as others are allowed to respond. I think it would suffice if any open flame baits, no matter whom they come from, especially ones that are allegedly provoked by events outside the opinions and discussions on Goanet, are more closely scrutinized. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes - Stale advice instead of action
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, how about giving up on flogging this dead horse, since were're actually getting no-where on it? Frederick, Forgive me for being direct with you. Instead of dispensing stale advice and cliches, how about enforcing the existing Goanet rules? When is the last time you have suspended or expelled anybody for repeatedly violating them? If my views and posts violate the rules, please kick me out? I for one will not complain. This is a moderated forum where the moderators are supposed to be in charge. Don't worry about being accused of censorship. Please have some courage for a change. Why are you wasting time trying to be fair to everybody? You may think you are fair, but in a lop-sided world there is no fairness. Habitual violators of the rules will always get away if the moderators are weak. So please have the courage to kick me out. Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes...
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? --FN --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because there is a method to my madness, as I am sure, there is one to yours. My method is as follows: 1. No unprovoked flame baits. Mario observes: In direct contradiction to the assertion above, the following are two unprovoked and very recent flame baits from Santosh. http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2006-August/047704.html http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2006-August/047553.html ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. I' m not too sure why this thread has continued on for as long as it has. SanTosh had a simple question and deserves a simple answer. SanTosh, given your truncation, modification and distortion of quotes you will never be a Catholic in good standing. Peter From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Santosh Helekar Sent: 28 August 2006 08:43 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Catholic in good standing? Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Peter D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SanTosh, given your truncation, modification and distortion of quotes you will never be a Catholic in good standing. The above accusation is quite revealing about the problem of ideological prejudice and self-righteousness that I have referred to earlier. The obvious questions that I have to ask this poster are: How about you? Are you a Catholic or Christian in good standing? Have you ever truncated, modified and distorted quotes? Do you consider yourself more moral than me? Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. And can anyone win an argument by making insinuations? More to the point: is Goanet about winning aruments? Can we ever convince someone who has a different point of view because of ideological/philosophical reasons or because of their perspective? Do we anytime believe that *we* are telling untruths or making up quotes? Why is it that we always see The Other as doing so? FN On 30/08/06, Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Goa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Muslim in good standing? Just curious? Mario adds: Which raises the question of whether someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be an atheist in good standing? Apparently so:-)) After all Stalin, Mao, Ho, Pol, Fidel and Kim were and are still considered upstanding atheists. Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Catholic in good standing? Cheers, Santosh -- --- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Jain in good standing? Cip -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Santosh Helekar Sent: 28 August 2006 08:43 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: [Goanet] Fake quotes Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Catholic in good standing? Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes...
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Well, Santosh, my method is mostly madness. Because: 1. You can't convince someone who approaches an issue from a very different perspective or ideological standpoint. So it's best to make one's point and leave it at that. 2. It's fun, once in a way, to throw in flame-baits (like this one). But it's never fun to try and respond to flame-baits. And, flame-baits, by their very nature, have to be unprovoked. A provoked flame-bait is an oxymoron (like military intelligence or developing countries and intellectual property). 3. There's no point in arguing with a baiter who has demonstrated very little sense. As someone once said, never argue with a fool: he's drag you to his level and beat you with experience. For sure, I'm not going to convince you here. So, for my part, I'll cease and desist from boring the other readers. (Most of the times, I write with serious intent... so some readers have a definite difficulty in discerning when I'm being flippant.) We can resume our verbal battle about your treatment of Science as a religion some other time. FN On 29/08/06, Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? --FN Because there is a method to my madness, as I am sure, there is one to yours. My method is as follows: 1. No unprovoked flame baits. 2. No response to an unprovoked flame bait when I know that it is not malicious or abusive. 3. No response to an unprovoked flame bait most of the times when the baiter is a sensible person. 4. Only an occasional response to unprovoked flame baits when the baiter has demonstrated very little sense, or has thoroughly discredited himself/herself by habitual abuse of others and/or by repeatedly posting the same mindless rubbish. What is your method? -- --- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Muslim in good standing? Just curios? Cip UK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Santosh Helekar Sent: 28 August 2006 08:43 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: [Goanet] Fake quotes Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Catholic in good standing? Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes and multiple posters
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. There's no point in arguing with a baiter who has demonstrated very little sense. Thanks for agreeing with me. BTW, I have three simple questions for you and other Goanet administrators, motivated by an observation. Are you allowing multiple posters to post from one email address? If so, have all of them disclosed their identities to you? Shouldn't you insist that they state their full names on Goanet? This would be especially of concern if these posters are using an identified proxy email address to abuse those who disagree with them. Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Buddhist in good standing? Just curios Cip UK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Santosh Helekar Sent: 28 August 2006 08:43 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: [Goanet] Fake quotes Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Catholic in good standing? Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Goa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Muslim in good standing? Just curious? Mario adds: Which raises the question of whether someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be an atheist in good standing? Apparently so:-)) After all Stalin, Mao, Ho, Pol, Fidel and Kim were and are still considered upstanding atheists. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes...
Santosh wrote: P.S: Please note that I did not respond to a couple of unprovoked flame baits that you directed at me recently. Why? --FN PS: The goal was to get you to respond. Now, I'll have to actually try something else. And that means speding time, energy and though :-) --- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
It's like asking: can someone who steals bread from poor children be able to get respect in the community of scientists? Or, can someone who doesn't bathe daily be a journalist of good standing (and expected to tell the truth)? To me, the comment below simply seems targeted at someone, and while squabbles are fun occasionally for those involved in them it's tough for most of us on Goanet to keep track of who's fighting whom, who's saying what, or even what is the point of purported insult. If you feel someone is making up lies, don't lend credence to him by furthering the debate. Lastwordism doesn't work in cyberspace. And flame-baits (like the one below, and the one I'm writing) are hardly likely to unruffle ruffled feathers ;-) FN PS: Lighten up, we all tend to take cyberspace too seriously. Sometimes. On 28/08/06, Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone who lies about others and makes up fake quotes to malign them be a Catholic in good standing? -- --- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Fake quotes
--- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Lighten up, we all tend to take cyberspace too seriously. Sometimes. Sorry, Frederick. You wasted your time at writing something that did not answer my question. I had asked a simple question with a yes or no answer based on some observations. Cheers, Santosh P.S: Please note that I did not respond to a couple of unprovoked flame baits that you directed at me recently. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
